Totem Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 I keep coming back to a diesel swap when I came upon a 1998 Mercedes E class 3. Its a Straight 6. The car gets 34-30 (MPG hwy & city).. Wondering what Maxx would think of this franken-swap... could it be done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldiesel Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Since i own two MB diesel cars i have given that idea considerable thought. Took a few rough measurements and formed the opinion that the 5 cyl engine used in the 90 to 93 2.5L 300 D might be able to squeze in to the toyota i dont think the 6cyl would fit without some serious surgery on the firewall which looks to me would include changes to the Heat / A/C equipment on the cabin side of the firewall. Neither of my cars are as new as the one you proposed but i believe the 6 cyl you speak of is the OM606 a modern 4 valve version of the OM 603 that is in my wagon and the engine block is substantially the same length.both the 5 and 6 have the deep part of the sump at the front of the engine which puts it right where it will interfere with the Toyota chassis,im sure a good welder could rework the oil pan to overcome that problem. The gear ratio in the rear axle would need to be changed if the MB trans was used as their 4th gear is direct so equivelent to running the Toy trans in 3rd. Not a great idea with an engine that has max torque starting below 2000 rpm.Adapting the Toy trans to the MB engine would not be out of the question but is not a simple thing to do.( has been done with some of the older pre 1986 MB engines to Toy std trans) but the adaption involves some serious machine shop work and accurate measuring. In the end i doubt the Toy trans would stand up to the added muscle of the modern MB turbo diesel for very long.All these negatives aside if i were 20 years younger and had a shop i could fit my Toy in iwould be out there right now working it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAXXFabrication Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 that Mercedes is a great engine but way too heavy for a Toyota VW turbo diesel is the way to go, alot of Toyota guys have had great luck in swapping these, ACME adapters (like as in Wile E. Coyote ACME!) makes the adapter to bolt up to a 22R/22RE. it is a very popular Toyota diesel swap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bajadulce Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Agree the motor seems a bit heavy for a toyota pickup. There have been a few guys that have managed to put those 5cyl 300D motors into a small pickup as olddiesel mentioned, but with considerable headaches from what I've read. The one older LandCruiser I have seen on youtube with the motor does look pretty sweet tho. There's a forum at 4btswaps.com that deals specifically with the 0M617 swaps and has a few toyotas. So something you might get a kick out of browsing if you haven't already. Not sure if the 4x4Labs was still selling their adapters? Am still interested in putting something into my 66 F250, but have too many projects atm. A cheap 0M617 would make for a fun little beach cruiser I suppose but prob is a bit underpowered for such a big truck (especially if ever wanted to throw the Sunrader shell on it). The Isuzu 4bd (NPR trucks) sounded like a great alternative to that common tractor motor everyone uses (cummins 4bt). Have read a bit here and there about the TDI and ya sounds like a good one. I don't think it would have enough power for a mini motorhome tho? Maybe transferring a toyota motorhome to a full size diesel truck would be the easiest route in the end for those looking to go that route. Lots of them out there and really easy to find. GVWR wouldn't be as much as an issue that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Have read a bit here and there about the TDI and ya sounds like a good one. I don't think it would have enough power for a mini motorhome tho? From memory, the TDI is 140HP, 236ft-lb. If you can ignore 'no substitute for Cubic Inches', more than enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bajadulce Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 oh wow that is quite a bit of HP. I think toyota's KZTE is around 130ish HP and those things are used all over Australia for mini campers. I really had no idea how many different toyota diesel motors were actually out there until I started reading some of the Australian forums. Pretty much any size to fit a small car to a full size work truck. I think in NAmerica, only the 2L/T, and possibly the 3L/T were sold back in the 80's? And then the cord was pulled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Despite the horsepower/torque numbers, I guess I just suffer the North American mindset that 1.8l isn't a whole lot of C.I. (110?) to move 6000lb down the road! And I'm guessing those 'foreign' MH probably weigh at least 1000lbs less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldiesel Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Up until a couple of years ago i had a 98 VW TDI as i recall it was rated 90hp. At that time we had a Scamp 13ft little camper that actually weighed 1345lbs we towed it all thru the mountains of N.C. and like the Toy the wind drag was the limiting factor,on level ground 65mph was about it ,you could go a bit faster but the oil temp started climbing right up quickly and although it was a great little engine i dont see it being a good conversion in the camper.I have read where people have put them in the Toyota 4x4s for off road use and were very pleased with the performance,but thats a very different application from running on the highway against a 20mph wind or a long steep grade in the mountains, ithink either would put the oil temp and egt thru the roof. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Clarification. The 140HP/236ft-lb is for the 2012 2.0 TDI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 My ALH is 90 HP but it's got lot of torque! The ALH can make 200+ HP with minor mods but it does lack displacement If I were going to go diesel I would just as soon only do it once and I think 2.5 to 3 liter would be the way to go. And yeah the 5 cylinder MB engine is way heavy and with out a turbo it ain't real strong. Audi made a 5 diesel that would be enough. A good machinest as a neighbor would all so be a plus too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAXXFabrication Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Up until a couple of years ago i had a 98 VW TDI as i recall it was rated 90hp. At that time we had a Scamp 13ft little camper that actually weighed 1345lbs we towed it all thru the mountains of N.C. and like the Toy the wind drag was the limiting factor,on level ground 65mph was about it ,you could go a bit faster but the oil temp started climbing right up quickly and although it was a great little engine i dont see it being a good conversion in the camper.I have read where people have put them in the Toyota 4x4s for off road use and were very pleased with the performance,but thats a very different application from running on the highway against a 20mph wind or a long steep grade in the mountains, ithink either would put the oil temp and egt thru the roof. Don A 4wd in low range revving at redline would get much hotter than that, no air flow like on the highway. You are correct when you said it is a very different application, a much more severe duty one at that (4X4s), a 4wd will punish a 22R or diesel more than a camper, low range has the engine revving a hell of alot more than going down the highway with wind resistance. as well as it has no airflow(4X4) other than what your fan is providing, allowing the heat to build up under hood to temps well above highway use. I own several Toyota 4wds and have raced and competed with them for over 20 years, I know the 22R like the back of my hand, the diesel will rev less with more torque than a 22R will, on the highway you wouldnt be turning nearly the RPMS you would with a 22R to accomplish the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted May 1, 2012 Author Share Posted May 1, 2012 again, the thought after reviewing all of this which is where we left off almost identically to the last TDI thread basically DQ'g the ALH etc was to try an OM606 or similar. seems the general consensus is a no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldiesel Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 The 90 to 93 5 cyl is a totally different engine from the pre 87 617, it is lighter though still alot heavier than the 22r and more powerful than the old style has hydraulic lifters and no rocker arms and was only sold in the U.S. with turbo and 4 speed automatic. Some other countrys did get n/a versions but we did not. I agree that high revs at low speeds will run coolant temps up and oil temps also to a lesser degree,but you will not see the destructive high EGT that you will in a hard pull for a long period and thats what kills diesels not hi revs. I know very little about 22rs but i do know about diesels! Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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