Gear ratio difficulties

[zekethomas]

I bought a 1984 Toyota Dolphin that has a late 1970s Buick V6 231cid in it..Whoever did it, did a very nice job, but failed to take some things into consideration. The gear ratio is way off. At 55/60 mph the engine is reving way to high. I've considered a few different options and would like to have someones opinion. #1- The transmission does not have an overdrive. If I was to replace the trans, what would bolt up to the engine that would have an overdrive without having to deal with all the computerized compontents.#2- Tire and wheel change. Are there some 6 bolt 15" wheels that will bolt on so I can get some taller tires.#3-rear end gears.Were there different gear ratios available for the for the 1 ton chassis.

[Maineah]

Pretty much they were 4.10 rears I think a 200R4 will bolt up to that engine it would have to be a multi bell or a Buick, Olds or Pont. unit a Chevy one won't bolt directly to a Buick. There will be some wiring involved but not much they were not computer controlled. Some of the later Tacoma's used 3.56 gearing that may also be an option I think the Buick would have enough power to run that gearing. I think the later 4X4 Toy homes had 15" wheels but they will be very hard to find some others might chime it I believe there are custom 15's out there some where.

[Derek up North]

I was just looking on 'car-part.com' and see that for "1984; Toyota Truck (except T100 & Tundra); Carrier" they have listed the following ratios:- 3.15(??), 3.42, 3.58, 3.73, 3.91, 4.10, 4.30. I don't know if they'd be a bolt in swap without setup required.

How much "way too high" are you revving at 55/60mph? Do you have a tach installed?

[Maineah]

He's probably turning around 3500-3600 at 55. Guess you could do the math both a TH200 and a TH350 were 1;1 in top gear. and the stock rear most likely is 4.10:1 I think the jack pot will fit from a later Tacoma and 3.56 was a common ratio. My 97 Tacoma was 3.56 and with a 4 cylinder it was pretty poor at towing but turned real slow at highway speeds in 5th.

[Derek up North]

I'd sure be playing with a gear ratio calculator to see the speeds in ALL of the gears before going to the trouble of making changes. Who knows, a 3.56:1 ratio might make any overdrive totally useless!

As an aside, the bellhousing required for this 3.8 V6 might be the same as used on the 215ci Olds/Buick aluminum V8. There are available new bellhousings to mate to a T5 manual transmission to the 215. You'd have to research if they'd work with an automatic.

[twoblocked]

maineah,

He will have to stick with the 8" V6/Turbo 4 Pinion rear differential. The Tacoma won't fit.

From http://home.4x4wire.com/erik/diffs/#IFS

"All 2wd and 4wd T100's, '00-06 Tundra's, and ?? Sequoia's use a newer/stronger 8" 2-pinion diff. Tacoma 4x4's and Tacoma PreRunner's that don't come with the electric locker (aka "non-TRD), as well as V6 Tacoma 4x2's also came with this diff.

This diff cannot be fitted to an older style 8" axle because it uses a larger diameter mounting bolt pattern and because more space inside the housing necessary to accommodate the large bearing cap."

" '86-95 4cyl Turbo and V6* trucks and 4runners, and ALL '96+ 4Runners use the Toyota 8" 4-pinion differential in the rear. This diff is known as the "V6/Turbo diff."

Here's a list of third members available for the 8"

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/4R_TechInfo.shtml#Differentials

I've been looking for a reasonably priced 4.56 for my rig. It seems a single vendor on eBay has cornered the market right now and is asking $400 and more for one.

He's probably turning around 3500-3600 at 55. Guess you could do the math both a TH200 and a TH350 were 1;1 in top gear. and the stock rear most likely is 4.10:1 I think the jack pot will fit from a later Tacoma and 3.56 was a common ratio. My 97 Tacoma was 3.56 and with a 4 cylinder it was pretty poor at towing but turned real slow at highway speeds in 5th.

[Derek up North]

I've been looking for a reasonably priced 4.56 for my rig. It seems a single vendor on eBay has cornered the market right now and is asking $400 and more for one.

Try car-part.com. Check 'Carrier', 'Differential' and 'Rear Axle'.

[twoblocked]

Thanks Derek,

I've been haunting junk yards since I was a kid. But these days if I see a computer at a desk when I walk in, I turn around and walk back out. Here's why.

car-part.com is simply a price fixing cartel that has now jacked up and fixed prices nation wide on used parts. The majority of car part dealers are paid-in-full members of this group. The clerk at the screen will tell you they have the part. And tell you you'll have to wait three days or more to pick it up. When you ask to see the part, they make up some excuse about customers not being allowed in the yard.

You have to pay up front for the part, sight unseen. And what they do is buy the part from another vendor on car-part, have it shipped and sell it to you. All at a price fixed by car-part. It's so sad. Go ahead and punch up carriers and diffs on car-part. For the most cases, there is no accurate description of the type, 2 or 4 pinion, the ratio is often not available, etc. It's a pig in a poke.

A couple years ago I scoured the Pacific Northwest looking for a manual transmission for my '92 Subaru. It was always the same story I've described above. I only found 3 yards I could scrounge in out of 30 I visited in CA, OR and WA. I finally found a 'Pick and Pay' in Tacoma. Transmission was $60 vs a car-part fixed price, across the board at $400.

I prefer eBay and Craigslist. But even then their asking prices tend to get influenced by car-part.

Try car-part.com. Check 'Carrier', 'Differential' and 'Rear Axle'.

[zekethomas]

I was just looking on 'car-part.com' and see that for "1984; Toyota Truck (except T100 & Tundra); Carrier" they have listed the following ratios:- 3.15(??), 3.42, 3.58, 3.73, 3.91, 4.10, 4.30. I don't know if they'd be a bolt in swap without setup required.

How much "way too high" are you revving at 55/60mph? Do you have a tach installed?

[zekethomas]

maineah,

He will have to stick with the 8" V6/Turbo 4 Pinion rear differential. The Tacoma won't fit.

From http://home.4x4wire....erik/diffs/#IFS

"All 2wd and 4wd T100's, '00-06 Tundra's, and ?? Sequoia's use a newer/stronger 8" 2-pinion diff. Tacoma 4x4's and Tacoma PreRunner's that don't come with the electric locker (aka "non-TRD), as well as V6 Tacoma 4x2's also came with this diff.

This diff cannot be fitted to an older style 8" axle because it uses a larger diameter mounting bolt pattern and because more space inside the housing necessary to accommodate the large bearing cap."

" '86-95 4cyl Turbo and V6* trucks and 4runners, and ALL '96+ 4Runners use the Toyota 8" 4-pinion differential in the rear. This diff is known as the "V6/Turbo diff."

Here's a list of third members available for the 8"

http://www.4crawler....l#Differentials

I've been looking for a reasonably priced 4.56 for my rig. It seems a single vendor on eBay has cornered the market right now and is asking $400 and more for one.

[zekethomas]

maineah,

He will have to stick with the 8" V6/Turbo 4 Pinion rear differential. The Tacoma won't fit.

From http://home.4x4wire....erik/diffs/#IFS

"All 2wd and 4wd T100's, '00-06 Tundra's, and ?? Sequoia's use a newer/stronger 8" 2-pinion diff. Tacoma 4x4's and Tacoma PreRunner's that don't come with the electric locker (aka "non-TRD), as well as V6 Tacoma 4x2's also came with this diff.

This diff cannot be fitted to an older style 8" axle because it uses a larger diameter mounting bolt pattern and because more space inside the housing necessary to accommodate the large bearing cap."

" '86-95 4cyl Turbo and V6* trucks and 4runners, and ALL '96+ 4Runners use the Toyota 8" 4-pinion differential in the rear. This diff is known as the "V6/Turbo diff."

Here's a list of third members available for the 8"

http://www.4crawler....l#Differentials

I've been looking for a reasonably priced 4.56 for my rig. It seems a single vendor on eBay has cornered the market right now and is asking $400 and more for one.

[zekethomas]

maineah,

He will have to stick with the 8" V6/Turbo 4 Pinion rear differential. The Tacoma won't fit.

From http://home.4x4wire....erik/diffs/#IFS

"All 2wd and 4wd T100's, '00-06 Tundra's, and ?? Sequoia's use a newer/stronger 8" 2-pinion diff. Tacoma 4x4's and Tacoma PreRunner's that don't come with the electric locker (aka "non-TRD), as well as V6 Tacoma 4x2's also came with this diff.

This diff cannot be fitted to an older style 8" axle because it uses a larger diameter mounting bolt pattern and because more space inside the housing necessary to accommodate the large bearing cap."

" '86-95 4cyl Turbo and V6* trucks and 4runners, and ALL '96+ 4Runners use the Toyota 8" 4-pinion differential in the rear. This diff is known as the "V6/Turbo diff."

Here's a list of third members available for the 8"

http://www.4crawler....l#Differentials

I've been looking for a reasonably priced 4.56 for my rig. It seems a single vendor on eBay has cornered the market right now and is asking $400 and more for one.

[Derek up North]

I've never tried buying a part with Car-part.com. I usually just use them as a 'poor man's' Hollander Interchange. There's some sort of working relationship between Car-part and Hollander. Yes, I prefer to wander around and pick my own parts. There are still a few yards near me that still allow it. I think at least part of the reason some yards don't allow it is insurance and potential lawsuits!

car-part.com is simply a price fixing cartel that has now jacked up and fixed prices nation wide on used parts.

[MAXXFabrication]

I buy off of car-part.com, the post above about it is way off. it is a very useful tool when doing any engine swaps I do or tracking down a part- I have many more hours of experience with car-part and what was said is so untrue..

try it and see for yourself.

Any rear diff out of any truck from 79-95 will bolt right in, 4 cylinder or 6 cylinder. and the 4runner up to 2002 will bolt in as well (uses same bolt pattern as the earlier trucks up till then, and ONLY on the 4runner.

if you find a diff at a junkyard 99 times out of 100 you can read the axle ratio code (on VIN plate in door opening on body) and decipher what ratio it has without turning a wrench.

[twoblocked]

I buy off of car-part.com, the post above about it is way off. it is a very useful tool when doing any engine swaps I do or tracking down a part- I have many more hours of experience with car-part and what was said is so untrue..

I think you may have missed my point about car-parts. It's good that you can get the parts you need for your work. I take it you are a professional mechanic and I imagine the price of whatever part you purchase is passed through to your customer. As it should be.

What I bemoan is a total lack of transparency in used car part pricing on the internet, and car-parts' virtual monopoly is that marketplace.

I like Amazon, every vendor competing with Amazon has to come close to matching their price point or lose business, this is transparency in an internet market. I like the major national Toyota distributor that posts the complete Toyota parts catalogue online, dealer pricing and then slashes 30% off list. More transparency. I get a choice.

But try to find competitive pricing on used car parts. No transparency. Only car-part. They set the price.

There is probably an unemployed database programmer pounding out code right now for an open source national used parts inventory program that would provide competition in this market. I can hardly wait.

Sorry for the rant.

[Derek up North]

I actually heard a number of years ago that General Motors was buying up junkyards in an attempt to control used parts prices.

As far as Car-part prices go, I often notice a wide range of prices listed. I've currently got open a page for 1986 Nissan 1-Ton pickup gas tanks. 6 listed with prices from $50 - $125.

[twoblocked]

I actually heard a number of years ago that General Motors was buying up junkyards in an attempt to control used parts prices.

As far as Car-part prices go, I often notice a wide range of prices listed. I've currently got open a page for 1986 Nissan 1-Ton pickup gas tanks. 6 listed with prices from $50 - $125.

The 'cash for clunkers' program had a dramatic effect on used car prices, making used cars more valuable. The local yards here in Tucson are crushing all '93 and older Subaru.

The wide range at car-parts could be attributed to the condition of the part. Scroll down at car-parts to see parts grade.

But I'm really curious as to how car-parts.com used prices compared to prices at the other used part web sites you found.

[Derek up North]

I haven't looked for other used car websites. I mainly use Car-part.com to get a vague idea on prices before heading out to my local 2 man yards. I also use it to give me an idea what year parts interchange. For example, I know to look for a tranny from '99-'01 for my '99 Explorer. I've no idea why a '97 or '98 wouldn't do the job, but it's nice to have the info, no charge.

[Maineah]

I'd sure be playing with a gear ratio calculator to see the speeds in ALL of the gears before going to the trouble of making changes. Who knows, a 3.56:1 ratio might make any overdrive totally useless!

As an aside, the bellhousing required for this 3.8 V6 might be the same as used on the 215ci Olds/Buick aluminum V8. There are available new bellhousings to mate to a T5 manual transmission to the 215. You'd have to research if they'd work with an automatic.

Nope the 3.5 Buick/Olds was a freak nothing fits except what was used with the 3.5. Now a 5 speed from England and bell housing would be the ticket (Rover/Triumph) or the Borg Warner automatic . There were two types that fit the Buick 3.8 any thing except Chevy and a mulitbell that fit both.