Portable Generator

[doghouse]

I am thinking of going with the Champion Portable generator. I plan on wiring a plug right from the J box on the generator compartment into the compartment so I can plug it in from there or use the exsisting RV land line. Do I need a generator that has 120/240V AC load and DC 12V load or just a 120 AC load. They make differnt models. I might go with the electric start one if it fits in the campartment space. I plan on Running a 13,000 BTU AC unit when I get one. What type of plug should I wire from the J box? 120 V/240 V Twist lock, 120 V RV Receptacle, Single 120 V

http://www.championpowerequipment.com/recreational.php

46540 196 cc OHV Gasoline Powered Engine <LI>4000 Peak Watts <LI>3500 Running Watts <LI>EPA Certified <LI>CARB Certified <LI>60 Hz Single Phase <LI>AC Load 120/240 V <LI>DC Load 12 V <LI>Fuel Capacity 4 gallons (15 L) <LI>Weight 99.2 lbs. (45 kg) <LI>Height 18.1 inches (46 cm) <LI>Width 18.1 inches (46 cm) <LI>Length 24.2 inches (61.5 cm) 46514 <LI>Engine 196 cc OHV CPE <LI>Running Wattage 3500 Watts <LI>Starting Wattage 4000Watts <LI>AC Load 120 V <LI>Phase Single <LI>Frequency 60 Hz <LI>Fuel Capacity 4 gallons (15 L) <LI>Weight 101 lbs. (45.8 kg) <LI>Height 23 inches (58 cm) <LI>Width 22.5 inches (57 cm) <LI>Length 32 inches (81.5 cm)

46538 electric start

<LI>Engine 196 cc OHV CPE <LI>Electric Start <LI>EPA Certified <LI>CARB Certified <LI>Running Wattage 3000 Watts <LI>Starting Wattage 3500 Watts <LI>AC Load 120V <LI>Phase Single <LI>Frequency 60 Hz <LI>Fuel Capacity 3.8 gallons (14.4 L) <LI>Weight 127.6 lbs. (58 kg) <LI>Height 21.5 inches (54.5 cm) <LI>Width 23.6 inches (60 cm) <LI>Length 27.2 inches (69 cm)

[Gulfstream Greg]

You just need 120v. I do not see a db noise rating in those specs. Have you heard this generator run?

Here is a big gotcha with a 240v generator.

A 240 volt generator divides the 240 in half to get 120 in two circuits. There are actually two sets of windings in the generator each producing only half of what the total capacity is. Normally you would balance your loads so that the same amount of amperage is loaded onto each side. Make sure that it can actually supply 3500 watts on a single leg of the output. Maxing out the gen on one leg might overheat that leg. Bottom line is a 3000 watt 240 volt generator might really be 1500 watts per each 120v leg. I am not 100% sure about that but if I remember when I set up our 7200 watt home standby power and transfer switch that was what was portrayed in the installation manual of the transfer switch. The transfer switch I used has 6 circuits, 3 each powered from each leg of the 240 volt output with the circuits being load balanced so that each leg was hopefully close to the same in current draw under full load.

Anyhow most likely it cannot supply enough current on one circuit. A comparison would be the Honda EU3000isa which does supply 25 amps on a single 120 volt circuit.

Here is a Honda load balance excerpt from one of their 240v manuals

The generator has two separate main power producing circuits. These two circuits supply equal power to the receptacles shown when the voltage selector switch is in the "120/240V" position. When two or more receptacles are used; prevent overloading by dividing the loads between the two power circuits.

Example: (EB6500 rated current draw is 50A)

Receptacle 2 has a 15A load connected to it. Receptacle 3 has a 15A load connected to it. Both receptacles are powered by the main power circuit 1. The equation tells us that the total power draw on Circuit 1 is 30A (greater than 25A). This is a substantial overload to this circuit. To eliminate the excess power draw on circuit 1, the load from receptacle "3" should be switched to receptacle "1". Now circuit 1 is powering a 15A load (less than 25A) and circuit 2 is powering a 15A load (less than 25A).

When the voltage selector is in the "120V ONLY" position, do not exceed the rated capacity of any one receptacle. For all receptacles used, do not exceed the rated load capacity of the generator.

.

Balance The Load"120/240V" position.Connect loads to balance the two main windings.

[Derek up North]

Unless you've been working out, I'd not call 110 - 130lbs as being very 'portable'. And those don't look like they're designed to operate in an RV compartment, so I guess you'd have to consider mounting it on the rear bumper.

[Maineah]

That's a good one it is a 120 volt generator designed to directly power your camper from it's 30 amp 120V plug no adapters needed single wound 3000watt (25 amp @ 120 volts) but like Derek said not exactly some thing you can put in your pocket. It looks like they knew their market you don't see many generators with a 30 amp 120V socket that's not a twist lock.

[doghouse]

That's a good one it is a 120 volt generator designed to directly power your camper from it's 30 amp 120V plug no adapters needed single wound 3000watt (25 amp @ 120 volts) but like Derek said not exactly some thing you can put in your pocket. It looks like they knew their market you don't see many generators with a 30 amp 120V socket that's not a twist lock.

Here is what I got from an email from Champion.

Store rating 75% of 4000 watts = 3000 models with 3000 watt running have a 25amp breaker. Watts divided by Voltage = Amperage. 3000/120=25

3500/120 = 29.16 amps. A 30amp receptacle is designed to handle this

Again same equation for 240 volts

Watts divided by voltage = amperage 3500/240=14.85 amps each hot leg

So the 46514 and the 46538 are not the same minus the electric start?

Stator and Rotor are the same. Model 46514 can operate items at 240 or 120 volt. Model 46538 is 120 volt only with electric start and remote start feature

[Gulfstream Greg]

Here is what I got from an email from Champion.

Store rating 75% of 4000 watts = 3000 models with 3000 watt running have a 25amp breaker. Watts divided by Voltage = Amperage. 3000/120=25

3500/120 = 29.16 amps. A 30amp receptacle is designed to handle this

Again same equation for 240 volts

Watts divided by voltage = amperage 3500/240=14.85 amps each hot leg

So the 46514 and the 46538 are not the same minus the electric start?

Stator and Rotor are the same. Model 46514 can operate items at 240 or 120 volt. Model 46538 is 120 volt only with electric start and remote start feature

OK I see in the manual (downloaded it) for the 46538 that it does have a single 25 amp circuit for RV's. I believe that it is not a 240v generator, it is only 120v

If that's the case then that is good and will do what you want. The 46514 is a 240v generator but it also has a single 120 v 25 amp plug for RV's. Remote electric start would be nice!

If you can you should hear it run. I do not see a decibel rating in the manuals.

Edited August 21, 2010 by Gulfstream Greg
read the manual

[doghouse]

OK I see in the manual (downloaded it) for the 46538 that it does have a single 25 amp circuit for RV's. I believe that it is not a 240v generator, it is only 120v

If that's the case then that is good and will do what you want. The 46514 is a 240v generator but it also has a single 120 v 25 amp plug for RV's. Remote electric start would be nice!

If you can you should hear it run. I do not see a decibel rating in the manuals.

What would be the advantage or disadvantage of going with the 46514 as a 240v generator vs. the 46538, which is 120v only? Does it even matter?

The 46514 says it has 3500 running watts and 4000 starting watts, whereas the 46538 says it has 3000 running and 3500 starting?

Should I hard wire a RV type plug from my inside J box into the generator compartment, which would leave the other plugs avalilbe?

[Maineah]

What would be the advantage or disadvantage of going with the 46514 as a 240v generator vs. the 46538, which is 120v only? Does it even matter?

The 46514 says it has 3500 running watts and 4000 starting watts, whereas the 46538 says it has 3000 running and 3500 starting?

Should I hard wire a RV type plug from my inside J box into the generator compartment, which would leave the other plugs avalilbe?

Don't make things hard for your self if you are just going to use it for your MH generator it maybe be a different story if you wanted to use it for your house. With the 120 volt 3,000 watt unit you can just plug in your MH cord to the outlet no wiring needed at 3,000 watts. Again as Greg said the 220v unit probably is wired as two 120 volt windings 3500 devided by two so 1750 per outlet and you can only use one at a time and you MH cord would not plug directly in. The adapters that are made to plug your MH into a standard socket are rated at 15 amps (1800 watts)where as your cord with the big ends are rated 30 amps (3600 watts)so with the 120v model you would get a full 3000 watts as apposed to only 1750 with the 220 volt one.

[Gulfstream Greg]

Don't make things hard for your self if you are just going to use it for your MH generator it maybe be a different story if you wanted to use it for your house. With the 120 volt 3,000 watt unit you can just plug in your MH cord to the outlet no wiring needed at 3,000 watts. Again as Greg said the 220v unit probably is wired as two 120 volt windings 3500 devided by two so 1750 per outlet and you can only use one at a time and you MH cord would not plug directly in. The adapters that are made to plug your MH into a standard socket are rated at 15 amps (1800 watts)where as your cord with the big ends are rated 30 amps (3600 watts)so with the 120v model you would get a full 3000 watts as apposed to only 1750 with the 220 volt one.

I looked at the manual for both. The 240 volt gen actually has a dedicated 30 amp rv type outlet also. How they can combine (the 240 volt unit) the two is a mystery to me. I am suspicious though.

Bigger is always better they say. With both you can just plug your shore cord directly into them. You always want to have the option of plugging into shore power so unless you want to create a manual or automatic transfer switch, well you get the picture. I like the electric start option. With that I would hard wire it and build a manually or automatic transfer switch. I hope to buy the Honda eu3000isa and build a remote head for the RV. For a transfer switch I will use a dpdt (double pole double throw) 120v ac activated contactor. When the gen starts producing power it activates the contactor and switches me from shore to generator power. The eu3000isa is pricey no doubt. But its quiet, really really quiet.

The two gens you are looking at I do not believe they are meant to be placed into a compartment and run. Actual RV generators are designed for enclosures in regards to their cooling abilities. If you put it in a bay you might need a fan to help with that cooling. I do believe though these generators will be really loud inside the coach if you put it in a bay. Even on the rear bumper is going to be loud.

[ekim121]

I know this is is a while after the fact but I have the 46540 and it is indeed loud; its not annoying when you're inside but its certainly noticeable.  I primarily use it for tailgating and we position it at the opposite corner of the camper from where we'll be and it certainly doesn't make us any friends.  I'd go so far as to say there is no way you would want it running while you or those around you were trying to sleep.  As for storage and transportation I have a platform on top of the rear bumper to transport it and then set it on the ground when its running.  Also note that it is indeed rather heavy and moving it works best with a buddy.  On the bright side, it certainly powers everything in the camper and is actually pretty good on fuel.  It has ~4 gallon tank and when I run everything except the A/C (fridge, microwave, lights, stereo system, and tv/satellite) it will run about 12 hours on a tank.

[86rader]

I have looked into buying a portable generator and installing it in my generator compartment, but, many seem to think this is a very dangerous idea.

I still think it can be done safely if you mod the compartment for better heat shielding/ventilation, but, the problem is, you are still gonna have a noisy generator inside a rather small house rattling every little bit of it.

In my opinion, there is only one reason to have a gennie. Off the grid Air Conditioner use at night. And what's the point of having something that makes too much of a racket to let you sleep?

I think a much better solution is a very lightweight trailer to mount the gennie. It will still be noisy, but, you won't have the direct physical connection assuming you unhook the trailer.

I have also given some thought to such a trailer with some sort of noise shielding. Obviously, you can't just box it up or it will turn into a campfire in a short time, but you might be able to vent it such that the noise is at least directed away from your campsite. This might not work well in a crowded campground where it would just piss off your neighbors, but, it could work fine for boondocking.

[GSORK]

I own a champ.not sure of the model but we use (used!!!) for nascar races .It worked fine but VERY LOUD. Next year WIFE got 2 honda 200i.