Windows gone

[xtioga]

I finally got those corner windows taken care of! the boat repair guy did a nice job, not perfect but a big improvement over the windows, now i need to figure out just which and where the goodies will go i have some cool stuff in mind, can't spend like i'm rich but will be setting a standard of high quality and light weight. i thought some others might like seeing the after of this job.

[Seattleguy]

Nice! Good riddance. I also had my front window fiberglassed over by a boat guy and don't miss it one bit.

[bajadulce]

Looks good! We should start a "cover-up-your-poorly-designed-wraparound-front-window" club. Looks like we have 3 members and probably growing I know of another forum member who will probably be doing the same this spring.

[Seattleguy]

Previous owner had originally replaced the front window glass with fiberglass on mine, but it still leaked around the frame. I had them fiberglass over from the back side, so it still retains the 'faux' window look from the outside. Painted black on the outside to look like dark limo tint.

[Martha]

What was the cost of the fiberglass job? Labor costs will shut me down.

My new 89 has a window leak, and I have not even yet looked at it close to see if its the frame or the window seal. (If I could even tell.)Someone gooped on about a gallon of messy silicone all around it. It looks horrible, I have seen less peaks on a lemon meringue pie!

I was going to look into replacing it, as someone told me that you can't just take it out and then clean it and re-seal it (I don't quite believe that still) I have now had just one single day inside this, working on the start of the "restoration" and I already see too much heat comes through that window, so I like the idea of just getting rid of it!

Maybe I will just clean off the gooped up silicone on the exterior, make it look neat. Then fiberglass the inside to seal it tight, and then put a nice thick foam and upholstery material over that, that way I don't have to be so neat on my "fiberglass" job.

Fiberglass is not hard to lay on, its hard to finish, so I think (hope) I can handle that.

I like that smooth window-less front look, but I know its out of my "willing to pay" budget.

Thanks for the idea! I think I will do this half-version.

[Derek up North]

Martha, Xtioga, Bajadulce and Seattleguy all have the advantage of 'homes with a proper fiberglass shell to start their fiberglassing with. Not so with yours, I believe. Unfortunately.

[Martha]

this pic is an 91, but my toy looks almost exactly the same, and it's smooth fiberglass 100% for sure on the exterior, so under the interior peeling wallpaper and plywood veneer, I am hoping to have enough to lock onto with some fiberglass cover.

I am getting rid of that solar heater!

The only thing I am worried about is not creating a pocket that water can go down into, and get all moldy or funky. I would prefer not to have to take the window out at all, and just take off the 1 inch thick gobbed up silicone, and then seal it-good -enough. on the outside, and 100% on the interior.

Maybe there is even a soft putty that can seal it on the outside, like the old-fashioned kind?

[waiter]

One of the things I noticed when I replaced my front window (I have a Dolphin) , there are no seep drains at the bottom of the front window frame. Probably because the window is tilted at an angle. Unfortunately the angle aggravates the problem, read on.

When I looked at all the other windows on my Dolphin, they all have small drains at the bottom of the sash.

If you take the window pane out and look at the design, its simple to assemble, and allows for a good water tight seal. until the rubber keeper becomes dry and brittle.

The pane rests on a small ridge thats built into the extrusion. The outside rubber keeper, isn't a seal, it just holds the window against this ridge. The window pane pressing against the ridge forms the water seal.

On the other vertical windows, any water that drains off the window will collect at the bottom of the extrusion and flow out of the drain holes. If there aren't any drains or the drains are plugged, the water level raises in the outside of the extrusion On mine, this can be 1/2 inch of water sitting at the bottom of the window. If the pane to ridge seal has been compromised (the rubber dries up and doesn't press the pane against the ridge) the water level will get high enough so it can creep between the pane and the ridge and flow to the inside of the extrusion. Unfortunantly for the front window, the fact that the window frame is tilting backwards aggravates this process.

The only solution to this problem would be to pull the rubber keeper, pop the window out, clean the window, frame, and extrusion, run a very small bead of sealant around the frame ridge, re-install the window, and install a NEW keeper rubber (don't reuse the rubber, that's why the window is leaking in the first place)

Drilling small seep holes may or may not help, this depends on the angle of the window if they would be effective or not in drain water before it can seep to the inside.!!.

IMPORTANT - Make it a point to go around and make sure all the drains are clear on all the windows.

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[Derek up North]

Martha, can you remind me what make motorhome you have. I though (at least I remember) it's a Dolphin or Winnebago. If it isn't, it'll be the first mistake I've made (today).

EDIT: Just looked at your profile. I see you've a Odyssey Americana. So a fiberglass shell and somewhat more solid shell to fiberglass to. Looks like it's crow for breakfast!

[waiter]

Martha,

Next rain, look at the inside of the window, if the frame is full of water, the glass to frame seal is leaking.

Do as I described above, but make sure you have a new rubber seal.

If you want to fiberglass it in, if your able to work with common hand tools, this is also an easy task.

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[Seattleguy]

I think I paid around $200 to have mine fiberglassed over. Probably could have figured out how to do it myself, but time vs money and didn't have the time to do it then. I recall getting great advice on how to fiberglass it yourself previously. There are some good how-to videos on youtube as well (if you want to go that route).

[waiter]

I built an entire airplane out of fiberglass, its EZ.

www.iflyez.com

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[Martha]

Crow For Breakfast Derek? Simple tastes. Sounds Southern!

If I could find a guy to do it for $200, like seattleguy,I would do it in a heartbeat! I made this garden-rockinghorse once, by fiberglassing all this rough fiber-cloth on one of those little plastic ponys on springs for five year olds. then I grew moss on it. Tried to. Not so easy in 110 degree sunny weather. Another stupid project that wasted a week of my time.

I did learn to glass in a rough fashion, and it is easy, unless you want to paint it and have it look presentable. I think I can handle the inside. Its just so messy and sticky! and the material is not cheap!

John, I will print these fab detailed instructions and go take a look where I have it parked in a few days.

In that picture, what is on the other side of that frame that looks like an "E" would not something be there? what is in that gap?

is this new drawing then what you are saying happens in the water path as it travels to the inside?

[Martha]

pic did not get attached

[yortllebk2]

Looks nice! What a great idea. Something to think about down the road potentially.

[waiter]

Martha;

BINGO - You got it exactly - Water gets into the front channel (outside), then seeps up between the glass and the ridge into the back channel (inside). When that channel fills with water, it spills over onto the cab-over floor and rots the floor out.

You don't see this problem with the side windows as they all have drains for that outer channel (if they aren't plugged).

Attached is the drawing with more detail that shows how the windows are installed.The front windows are the same, except they are tilted at an angle, and they don't have the outside drain holes.

I was thinking about adding drain holes. These would probably help with the as-built installation.

On my installation, I don't use that rubber keeper. I fill that outer channel with sealant and that becomes the primary seal. Maybe I should also copy this drawing over there.

http://toyotamotorhome.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=3755

There's a video floating around the internet on how to remove an reseal the window frame. Basically, remove the inner trim ring and the window will fall out.

[xtioga]

the old windows that i replaced were looking cracked and distorted as well as leaking, i might have tried doing it myself but don't have a big shop to take the thing inside, so i just started calling boat repair guys, i live along the Oregon coast so they are plentiful and right now alot of guys are hurting for work...so a little cash incentive can get 'em busy. i had a few other patching jobs done at the same time, got rid of the fridge holes, my new engle will be resting in a built in cabinet, no holes needed, the city water & electrical plug outlet...gone. i paid 500 for the whole job, replacing them would've been more. and i will never have to reseal again. priceless.

[waiter]

xtioga - There ya go.

I didn't think about a boat shop. they would defiantly know how to do fiberglass work.

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[Dolphinite no longer here]

What was the cost of the fiberglass job? Labor costs will shut me down.

My new 89 has a window leak, and I have not even yet looked at it close to see if its the frame or the window seal. (If I could even tell.)Someone gooped on about a gallon of messy silicone all around it. It looks horrible, I have seen less peaks on a lemon meringue pie!

I was going to look into replacing it, as someone told me that you can't just take it out and then clean it and re-seal it (I don't quite believe that still) I have now had just one single day inside this, working on the start of the "restoration" and I already see too much heat comes through that window, so I like the idea of just getting rid of it!

Maybe I will just clean off the gooped up silicone on the exterior, make it look neat. Then fiberglass the inside to seal it tight, and then put a nice thick foam and upholstery material over that, that way I don't have to be so neat on my "fiberglass" job.

Fiberglass is not hard to lay on, its hard to finish, so I think (hope) I can handle that.

I like that smooth window-less front look, but I know its out of my "willing to pay" budget.

Thanks for the idea! I think I will do this half-version.

Martha,

Removing and installing windows is one of easiest jobs that you can do to your Toyhome. It's a good idea to know how to do it even if you're eventually going to replace or cover up this particular window. Plus, if you take the front window out, clean it up good and re-install it with the right bedding material, it should be good for at least three or four years. Maybe by then you'll have figured out exactly what you want to do with the window.

Anyway, you sound like you're fairly handy so here's one good way to do the window; Get up on the bunk with your electric screwdriver (you have one, right? Lowe's or Home Depot for about $30.00 to $40.00 and a necessity for doing the windows and a hundred other jobs on the Toyhome) Pull all the screws on the inside frame, take it off and gently set it aside. Go outside and start slipping a thin putty knife under the edge of the window until you've gone all the way around or at least enough to start gently lifting the window off the front. Go slowly, dont bend or break anything and you'll do fine. Having a friend help is a big plus. Clean all the silicone junk off both the window and the motorhome. (no small feat! Silicone is aggravating stuff to remove, but it will come off eventually)

Hopefully you've already bought a roll of 1" wide black, butyl tape from your local RV store. You can go with the older style grey stuff but it doesn't last as long and is very inferior compared with the newer black butyl stuff. Start applying this stuff to the motorhome, not the window frame. Keep it about 1/8" away from the edge of the window opening. Set your nice and clean window back in its opening and go inside and start putting the screws back in. Get most of them started before tightening them down and, unless you've used the electric screwdriver a lot, do the final tightening with a good quality hand screwdriver. Tighten them all down and let 'er set for a few hours or even overnight. In the morning, re-tighten all the screws again. By now you should have quite a good squeeze-out of the black stuff all the way around the window. Use a knife or putty knife to carefully cut through this stuff using the window edge as a guide. Pull off the extra butyl and there you have it! Quite a few people on this site run a very small bead of clear goo over the top of the exposed edge of the butyl for that little extra bit of protection. I've never done it yet and have had good luck with just the butyl. Its your call. Good luck...

John

[Martha]

I went over to my Toy to look at taking the window out, and it only has a rubber gasket frame.

I can't find another gasket the same type in the 3 minutes I searched.

The window will come out easy I see, but now as

it's rubber in the interior too, I can't fiberglass over that, no doubt.

Its also missing 2- inch sections on each side where it either shrunk or they measured the gasket short, and someone just gooped about a quarter cup of silicone in the gaps.

Such a shame. Poor lil' baby.

[waiter]

Martha;

Good drawing - A picture is worth a thousand words.

Darn, Yours is different. To repair yours, you really need to replace the entire rubber, as its most likely suffering from Old Age - shrunk, dry, cracked, and leaking (sounds like my symptoms also... another story)

Check RV supply houses, pickup truck shells. Van conversions, anyplace that installs vehicle windows. The two critical dimensions will be "C" where it seals against the fiberglass, and the "B" the thickness of the window.

I have this same rubber/window system on my pickup shell and its leaking also. Project for this summer..

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[Supurcar]

I finally got those corner windows taken care of! the boat repair guy did a nice job, not perfect but a big improvement over the windows, now i need to figure out just which and where the goodies will go i have some cool stuff in mind, can't spend like i'm rich but will be setting a standard of high quality and light weight. i thought some others might like seeing the after of this job.

Looks like your's is exactly like my Sundrader, floor plan and all. The window came out great!

I still have not dealt with the window issue, I was quoted $1200 by a local boat guy, which falls in line with "b.o.a.t." Break Out Another Thousand. I was shocked by that quote I would gladly pay 2 or 3 hundred to get mine glassed over. For now I am using black gorilla duct tape over the problem area, no leaks and it is almost a match for the original decal and rubber around/ between the windows, but very half a$$.

I have thought of using the bedliner coating (Rhino etc.) and just go over the entire thing, rubber, window, and all. I have seen restorations on old Broncos where they used that stuff for the floor and removed the doors (very indoor-outdoor) and it looked great and very thick and durable.The roughness might lose some of the aero dynamics...who am I kidding what aero dynamics?... lol.

[yortllebk2]

that is such a great idea for the cabover window. This whole section of my RV could use a replacement. The caulking on the outside looks like someone applied it with a shotgun. The window also leaks a trace amount of moisture. Pulling the window and fiber glassing over the area is an idea that I had not even considered. Looks nice, great job!

[Martha]

that is such a great idea for the cabover window. This whole section of my RV could use a replacement. The caulking on the outside looks like someone applied it with a shotgun. The window also leaks a trace amount of moisture. Pulling the window and fiber glassing over the area is an idea that I had not even considered. Looks nice, great job!

I was sort of stuck with this rubber seal issue, and it had clear silicone gobbed over it 1 inches past each edge, and 1.2 inch thick in literal gobs. The same person must be going around the US with his Silicone shotgun! It was hard to tell where the leakage was coming in from due to the peaks and mess it was. I needed to get it ready to hopefully go on a long trip in two weeks so no time to do much of anything, as I need to go through the rest of the Toy to check out whatever else I can. What I did was spend three days trying to get the worst of the clear off, which was a mixture of clear silicone and clear -something else that was hard. (some epoxy?)

Silicone remover helped with the true silicone, but then I had to try to razor off the hardened stuff- (only was 50% successful, before I gave up)

I did get the worst of it off, so your eye was not drawn right away to that mess. Then I taped the rubber seal off and used black silicone over the whole seal. I considered the Gorilla tape that I love, but as it was still not just perfectly smooth rubber, the tape would have left small gaps on the rough edges still there. (that stuff is also a bear to remove down the road) My silicone idea was a great temp fix-except for one mistake. I used 3-hour black gloss and what a huge mistake! It was hot outside, and after I beaded it on, I was very happy. It was looking good-until I tried to smooth down the beads. It took me only about 5 minutes to lay the bead around the seal on each side, but when I tried to smooth it over with a wet brush, it was already set up and dragged, leaving me with a slight texture like surface. Not what I wanted! I will never use 3-hour silicone again.

It is what it is for now, no time to spend on the window replacement this month, I will put black-out window cover on the inside, so the light does not shine through and highlight it and a black out curtain,

Still it's a 100% improvement, and will not leak, but I would not ever use 3-hour again, as there is no working time. (it has a super gloss, and a deep black though, and that deep black is hard to find)

[punter]

It's not just what one learns from reading these - sometimes reading these postings brightens ones whole day! Laughed out loud while reading the aerodynamics comment, then again with the shotgun application approach to repair! You are a great group of people out there. Many thanks to the webmaster for making it all possible! Much thanks for the humor! Oh, and thanks for sharing the knowledge!!