Window Leaks and Such

[shandamac]

This morning, after closer inspection, I noticed that both side sliding window gaskets are cupping on the outside in the same places that leaked on the inside in yesterday's rain storm, and there's about a 1/2" gap between the gasket and the center cross piece. Anyone have a minute to offer suggestions on where I can find new gasket material, or is this something I can pop out and replace myself???

I will continue researching rain deflectors to install over the windows. (Maybe newer models already have these.) I'll take all the advise I can get.

shanda

JotS - Leaking druids!!!!! How did you know!??!?!?!!!!

[johnnyonthespot]

my dolphin has the same problem and i also am anxiously awaiting some good no GREAT advice on how to proceed...

so far i have just been advised to take the windows out and reseal them... but the outer gaskets will need attention as well...

if you find any answers let me know and i will do the same for you...

good luck!

[shandamac]

The trick will be to find out who made the windows. On their website, www.hehr-international.com, Hehr has several types of window gaskets (aka beads). One looks an awful lot like the gasket on Sadie's sliding window. I called the customer help, and they're unable to link the type of bead or channel by the age and type of motor home. Do you know how to find out who made the Sunrader windows? I read somewhere (I think on this forum) that the company that fabricated the Sunrader is no longer in business.

[johnnyonthespot]

i think Dolphin folded into another company that also folded...

im not surprised to hear the same about sunrader...

they just dont make these things affordable when new so how many could they possibly sell???

I have a list 2-3thousand dollars long of things I plan on doing to my dolphin...

and thats just for repairs, tires and engine maintenance...

then there is the WANT list... LCD tv... Generator, replacement Fridge...electric heater

AND whatever comes up along the way...

I need a job...

if anyone has any leads or advice for someone venturing into online sales... feel free to enlighten me.

[turtle]

Dolphin was made by National RV and they just closed this year.

Windows are sealed using butyl putty tape.

You will see a ring of screws on the inside. Remove them then remove the inside trim ring. You should be able to push the window out of the coach body from the inside. Get someone to hold it on the outside to keep it from falling.

Scrape away all of the old butyl putty tape from the window frame and the coach body. Put new butyl putty tape on the inside window flange and insert it back into the hole. Replace the trim ring and the retaining screws. Tighten until you get some ooze of the putty tape.

That's it.

This is something that needs to be done every 5-7 years.

Motor homes are like boats and airplanes. They require constant maintenance regardless of whether they get used or just sit around.

If you are getting leaking around the rubber gasket that the actual window glass sits in you need to make sure that your weep holes are clear so that any water that enters the window channel can exit the frame.

If your windows do NOT have weep holes you can drill some.

My 1981 diesel did not have any and I had to put them in

http://www.toymike.com/diesel/pics/weepHole1.jpg

http://www.toymike.com/diesel/pics/weepHole2.jpg

[shandamac]

Diesel Mike,

Thanks very much. (Oddly enough I'd just finished reading your post to JotS which was major informative.) I'll be getting plenty of that butyl putty tape stuff and resealing all the windows and vent covers on little Sadie. I did see weep holes. (A good sign.) This afternoon, I called a local body shop that does window seal repairs. They said they'd give me a good deal, but I'd really hoped I could do most of the work myself. If butyl tape and some caulk can do the trick, then I'll try that first. Also, I found several places selling air/weather deflectors for sunroofs that mount with industrial strength tape, along with rubber weather stripping. I'm thinking it would work to deflect rain from running on my side windows too. (I'm attaching a picture of the deflector for a Subaru Baha that's running about $60. Unless someone knows something more appropriate.

Wow! What a day! Started attempting to pull up/cut out carpet. In what motorhome builder's manual does it say, "Lay all the carpet. Attach it with at least 10,000 mini staples per square foot and a few nails for good measure, then install all cabinetry, appliances and seating bases, with flippin' Alan screws, 1 every inch or so"???????

deep breath........count to ten.........

I know. I know. " 'Cheap' don't always mean 'easy'."

shanda

[motoyhomme]

Shanda,

Are you referring to the gasket that holds the glass in the frame or the area between the two plates of glass? The first item is called "vinyl glazing". Looks really hard to replace but I, myself, would attempt it. Wouldn't be the first thing I ruined by "fixing" it.

I did a quick look last night in the dark at the sliding windows on my Sunrader, and the area between the two window panes almost looks like a hard plastic/rubber block that slides on the surface of the stationary pane when the other is slid back. It's about a 1/2 inch thick. I'll try to view it in the daylight to get a better idea.

Then the other stuff about butyl tape and weep holes is very good. Insects like to die and drop down to cover the weep holes, also dirt builds up and turns to hardened mud.

The Sunrader was built by Gardner-Pacific of Vallejo, CA from the 70's until around 1994. Several things happened to put them and almost all of the other Toyota motorhomes out of business at this time. The rear axle issue was the biggest problem they had. Toyota sold the Cab and Chassis (C&C), based on the Long Bed Pickup, initially with a regular axle in the rear. The motorhomes kept getting heavier which caused the rear axles to break and the wheels to fly off resulting in several bad accidents with deaths. Toyota in 1986/87 began furnishing the C&C with the 1 ton floating axle which cured the axle problem. Eventually the lawsuits and the National Transportation Board caught up with the early model axles and the NTB decreed that the motorhome manufacturers were responsible and had to replace all of the older axles. Rather than do this, most of the companies went out of business with National RV being one of the few to honor the recall. Toyota stepped up to the plate and offered free 1 ton axles and wheels to all of the earlier Toyota owners. They furnished the parts and you furnished the labor. (My Sunrader was upgraded in this manner). Eventually Toyota decided to not offer the C&C to American motorhome manufacturers because mostly of the liability issue, plus bigger is always better in the U.S.A and the gas crucnch was over in the '90's , so who needed a tiny MH?

This is my history lesson for today and I cannot stand by anything that I just wrote.

Allen

PS... the opening music on your website is awesome

[turtle]

Wow! What a day! Started attempting to pull up/cut out carpet. In what motorhome builder's manual does it say, "Lay all the carpet. Attach it with at least 10,000 mini staples per square foot and a few nails for good measure, then install all cabinetry, appliances and seating bases, with flippin' Alan screws, 1 every inch or so"???????

shanda

You will find almost all screws are square drive. You can get a square drive screwdriver at most hardware stores. I have a screwdriver that takes bits so that when I wear out one of the square drives I just have to replace the bit not the entire screwdriver

https://webvia.techni-tool.com/VIA/Res/Cata...L_Cat114.p1.pdf

Make sure you replace all of the carpet staples. That is what holds most of our older motor homes together

[motoyhomme]

Yeah, all motorhome toolboxes gotta have the square bit driver.

Had a better look at my windows and I was wrong about the area where the two windows overlap. It was just a trim piece with a small strip of something (rubber, felt?) that slides against the stationary pane.

Take a look at this website:

http://www.rvgutters.com/

Allen

[shandamac]

Thanks for the Sundrader history lesson. Does that mean the Sundrader is now sort of a "collector's item"....you know.....now that it's "out of print?"

The RV Gutter site was informative too. My local glass place is supplying me with butyl tape to reseal the windows, and while each one is down, I'm going to give it a thorough cleaning and wash out all the grunge clogging the tracks and weep holes. Until a week ago, I'd never been in a motorhome, much less owned one, and now I can think of nothing else. I'm obsessed!

[turtle]

Thanks for the Sundrader history lesson. Does that mean the Sundrader is now sort of a "collector's item"....you know.....now that it's "out of print?"

In 1991 the National Highway Safety Administration issued a recall of all Toyota motor homes built between 1979 and 1985 to replace the light duty rear axle with a heavy duty rear axle.

This recall bankrupted every Toyota motor home manufacture in 1991, forcing them to close their doors. The exception to this was Winnebago and National RV who continued to make Toyota chassis motor homes until 1994 when Toyota stopped selling their cab chassis for conversion to motor homes. Toyota felt that the axle recall cast serious questions about their product and decided to leave the motor home sector. The recall was only for motor home manufactures NOT Toyota as the trucks were not deemed unsafe, only the motor home conversions.

After most motor home manufactures failed, Toyota offered replacement rear axles at no cost (parts only delivered to a Toyota dealer) as a courtesy to motor home owners. As of now the recall is so old that the only way to replace an unsafe light duty axle is to purchase it yourself.

The last year for most Toyota motor home production was 1991 except for Winnebago and National (Dolphin and Sea Breeze) who continued until 1994.

National just closed their doors on December of 2007 so now the only company still in business who manufactured Toyota chassis motor homes is Winnebago.

[motoyhomme]

All of the Toyota motorhomes are now "classics" with most of them earning the "antique" status. They are special.

I knew someone on the forum remembered the exact details, but I was close.

Allen

[shandamac]

Wow!!! That's wild!! I don't even wanna know how many people were hurt before they figured out the rear axle thing!

One of the first things the lady who sold me Sadie told me was that "something happened" as they were turning a corner in Spokane, back in 2001, and the back axle broke". She didn't know much more, but she was darn glad they'd been going slow. She said, the repair shop said it was probably due to the weight of the house and replaced the axle with the one ton. (When I look at the back wheel sets, I see 10 lugs for each side, Dual tires. I hear/read you all talking about 6 lugs. Should I think about saving up for a new rear axle and have 12 lugs per side?

(If you've already answered this for someone else in another topic, just point me in the right direction.)

Thanks, Teach!

shandamac

ps. This is a "before" picture of the wheels. I hope I can have them painted.

[shandamac]

All of the Toyota motorhomes are now "classics" with most of them earning the "antique" status. They are special.

I knew someone on the forum remembered the exact details, but I was close.

Allen

Well, I feel pretty darn special now that I own one. (Even in her current disheveled state, Sadie feels pretty special too.)

[shandamac]

Make sure you replace all of the carpet staples. That is what holds most of our older motor homes together

I totally don't doubt that, and they're not your everyday kinda staples either. They're flippin' long! You'd think the carpet layer thought he was huntin' gophers.

[keitholivier]

Shandamac, don't waste your time with those wheels. You have the dreaded old 5 lug axle and the wheels will need to be replaced along with the axle. You can see the difference between the old 5 lug axle and the later 6 lug axle here:http://www.toyotamotorhomes.com/files/Axle_FAQ.pdf

Keith

Wow!!! That's wild!! I don't even wanna know how many people were hurt before they figured out the rear axle thing!

One of the first things the lady who sold me Sadie told me was that "something happened" as they were turning a corner in Spokane, back in 2001, and the back axle broke". She didn't know much more, but she was darn glad they'd been going slow. She said, the repair shop said it was probably due to the weight of the house and replaced the axle with the one ton. (When I look at the back wheel sets, I see 10 lugs for each side, Dual tires. I hear/read you all talking about 6 lugs. Should I think about saving up for a new rear axle and have 12 lugs per side?

(If you've already answered this for someone else in another topic, just point me in the right direction.)

Thanks, Teach!

shandamac

ps. This is a "before" picture of the wheels. I hope I can have them painted.

[turtle]

ps. This is a "before" picture of the wheels. I hope I can have them painted.

You've been told the bad news about the axle already so I will tell you the good news about painting rims.

You can paint them.

I use Hammerite paint with the "hammered finish". It leaves a very nice fish eye effect when it drys and it is tough as nails.

http://www.toymike.com/diesel/pics/paintedRim.jpg

http://www.toymike.com/diesel/pics/rearLeftThreadLugNuts.jpg

[shandamac]

Keith, Mike,

Thank you, thank you. Sadie will be getting the axle upgrade. The search begins.

With much appreciation,

Shanda

[jmh139]

From a bunch of internet searching, I beleive this is the glazing bead that goes around the windows on my 89 dolphin. They sell several sizes, but I think this is the one on my windows. It is NOT cheap....

http://www.pellandent.com/Motorhome_Produc...?ProductID=4084

[Yostfmx]

Shanda, I'm in the same boat you are. 18' 82 Sunrader with 5 lug, old owner said he broke the axle, had it replaced with same kind (I would say). I'm going to just call it good, wait till it breaks I guess, that is "if" it breaks. But I'm going to lighten it up a lot! Oh and I too painted my wheels, gangsta gloss black, with my fav 99 cent homedepot paint haha http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v322/Yostfmx/DCP_2812.jpg Really that stuff works good!

Think I spent $2 to paint my wheels hahaha...

Oh and the window putty tape sucks, but thats all you can really use. You would think that they would come up with something better after all theses years. My day used this window sealent stuff that he got from a window place over 9 years ago and only use that on the whole windows (as they said) when he put them back in, and he says that they have never leaked... don't know if I want to try that?

I think that my front bed windows leak, don't know how I'm going to seal thoses? They're all cracked and look like if you push on them they'll bust thur haha.

[shandamac]

JMH,

I do believe you're right about the style of glazing. It's the closest thing I've seen that resembles the beading on Sadie. Thanks for the link. I will end up ordering it from them, I sure. I'm also rebutylizing all her windows and clearing out those weep holes.

I haven't given up on the idea of attaching moonroof air/weather deflectors upside down over those two rear sliding windows. There's already a metal deflector or sorts bolted over the door (see picture) I believe the new moonroof deflectors are plexiglass and mount with industrial strength 2 sided tape and include a sticky rubber weather stripping. I think they might work on the smooth fiberglass of a Sunrader.

Thanks again for your help. Have a great day!

shanda

[shandamac]

Yost,

I'll need to leave the axle alone until I can save up for a new one. The steepest terrain around here is through the Arbuckles and Ozarks. (Real mellow stuff for a motorhome to tackle.) So, if the previous owners did replace the '81 rader's rear axle in '01, and if I keep her light, and stay away from off roading (not many sandy beaches to pull out on here in central Oklahoma), then hopefully I can enjoy her until I can afford to put her in the shop. That's the plan.

Have a great day!!

shanda

Edited May 19, 2008 by shandamac

[motoyhomme]

Shanda,

Back in 2000 I treated my then new Suzuki Grand Vitara with the smoked plexiglass rain delectors over all four door windows. They have an adhesive strip on them, just pull the protective paper and stick, you may not even get a second chance to reposition them. They really stick! Eight years later and I would have to tear the window frame off before those things let go. They do keep the rain out of a partially lowered window.

Allen

[shandamac]

Hey Allen,

You got pictures?!?! I'm so glad to hear that the air deflectors work for you.

I'm pretty sure that I'll have some luck taping deflectors to the smooth sides of the sunrader too. But first, (soon as I finish butylizin' windows, skylight, and vents), Sadie's gettin' a bath.

shanda

[Yostfmx]

Well... I would say it will ok. Almost everyone on this board will say don't chance it. Don't drive on it. The thing about the axle is it can brake at anytime really, but yea, they replaced in 01, mine in 05 or so, seams like it will hold for a bit? But then again I hear that some peoples broke when the were new. I would say don't drive fast, 55 and under, don't hit turns fast (I think thats when its more likely to break), keep the outside wheels 5 or 10 PSI lower and pray to God that it does break when your driving. Keep in mind that I've only drove my MH 40 miles home after I bought it and thought I was going to die in that death machine (was bad when I got it), thats it, been working on it. And I'm not going to be driving on it when I'm done too much. Its a live-in beach/surf motorhome, + it should be 1000 LBS lighter then stock. If I was going to go on trips with it I think I would change it, cause I know the whole time I'm going to drive it I'll be thinking its going to break. Good luck...

[motoyhomme]

Hey Allen,

You got pictures?!?! I'm so glad to hear that the air deflectors work for you.

I'm pretty sure that I'll have some luck taping deflectors to the smooth sides of the sunrader too. But first, (soon as I finish butylizin' windows, skylight, and vents), Sadie's gettin' a bath.

shanda

Here is a picture that shows the deflectors on the windows of the Suzuki. They look like they were made with the car, but they're stick-ons. The VW is my project car as if the Sunrader is not project enough.

Allen

[shandamac]

Cute bug! That orange would go for big bucks here in Okla State cow poke country.

I checked out window and roof deflectors at one of our local auto parts store. Because of their shape, the roof deflectors will be the way I go. Sadie needs 40'' plus, (they only had 36'') so will keep looking, but will definitely go this route. I'd like to be able to crack the window in a light shower on a sultry, summer afternoon. If anything, the deflectors should keep the rain from running a river over those top window seals.

[turtle]

I would say don't drive fast, 55 and under, don't hit turns fast (I think thats when its more likely to break),

What stresses the bearings is going in and out of driveway entrances. The fake outside dual wheels act as a lever putting too much pressure on the bearing and axle cracking or breaking them. Then at a later date the crack separates and the wheels, brake drum, and axles leave the vehicle.

It is almost imposable to avoid going in and out of drive entrances so the stress is taken on a daily basis as the coach is used.

Speed is not a factor in failure

Age is not a factor in failure

Tire pressure is not a factor in failure.

Luck or absence of it is the factor. These light duty axles fail. It is just a matter of when they will fail and whether you or someone else will be injured when it happens.

The highway safety administration does not recall vehicles unless it is a serious issue. All early Toyota motor homes were recalled.

[Yostfmx]

So the damage may already be done to my axle? Even if I'm really light now. Whats the max lbs. for 5 lug with the duely off, say a stock pick up?

[turtle]

So the damage may already be done to my axle? Even if I'm really light now. Whats the max lbs. for 5 lug with the duely off, say a stock pick up?

You can find the GVW for various years on this web site

http://www.toyoland.com/trucks/tacoma-hilux.html