ToyoGuy

Hey Robert, A little hard to "read" the picture, but it sure does sound like your previous guy did some upgrade attempts. I really wouldn't mind sealing my cabover if I had the time, but I need to attend to the main floor first. I am getting the idea after talking with yostfmx and looking at LOTS of rader pictures, that even on the best kept specimens, there is at least a bit of warp to the floor. Seems like the more moisture exposure, the more warping can happen. I notice that in most of the interior Sunrader pictures I see, in the front back shot looking at the rear window, the stove almost always tilts back towards the entry-door wall. (It straddled the wheel-well on mine)Also, in the stripped-out coach pictures, the wheel well humps always seem to be slumping down some at the outside edge. Oh well, busy, busy, busy....... I will say that nothing I did to clean up my coach did more than getting rid of the old rug, it's probably at a hazardous waste site by now. Keep up the good work ! Cheers, ToyoGuy

Hey Guys, Saw your post and wanted to say, I have replaced guides on several motors now with these from DOA racing. (http://www.doaracingengines.com) I have ton's of miles on the very first install with absolutely no problems. I have been driving 22R powered vehicles for about 30 yrs now and my experience is, don't put stock one's back in, if you pull the chain cover. The kit is about $80.00 and worth every penny in my opinion. I will purchase the gear and chain setup/kit all together next time. They used to sell a "prolonged high-rev" RV 22R long block, but I don't see it on their web site anymore. What happens is, the plastic guides wear (the sometimes broken off pieces fall down into the oil pan) , the timing gears wear, the chain wears and stretches, then the "looser" chain starts to slap the inside of the timing chain cover wall, making noise, cutting a set of grooves in it and putting nasty aluminum stuff in the oil sump. Usually you hear it most when the engine starts from cold and the hydraulic tensioner has not yet been stiffened up by the oil pressure. Unless it's really bad, it quiets down some as the motor warms up and the oil pressure goes up. Junk yards have lots of these kicking around to see and usually some that are worn right through to the outside world. Check these DOA guys out, their guides are steel with a quality hardened rubber backing. PS, they got other cool stuff. Good luck, ToyoGuy ToyoGuy

" I cannot figure out how to remove the wood paneling on the sides without damaging it. It almost feel like it is glued in, my only other guess is to remove the window frame on the sides, if that holds it in. If I can get the side panels out I can really see what is going on with the wrap arounds." I understand............... In my coach (18'), the panels are held in by, 1# A big wood screw that comes thru the outside moulding (See photo below, mine was leaking, rusted and the wood it went into was rotten, so it had no pupose but to let water in), #2. The window frames, which might need to be removed anyway if the putty is cracked around the outside sealing edge, and #3. on the left side, facing front in the coach, the cabover paneling extends back behind the shower and holds all of it by being connected, so I had to CAREFULLY cut mine with a utility knife at the adjoining shower wall corner. The stuff is thin and mine was "punky". I didn't care because I am doing a total re-do on the coach, but, with care, I feel someone could CAREFULLY pull out the 1/4 round moulding in the shower/left-wall corner, and using several passes with a sharp knife (knowing there is wiring behind it, above the window-probably-) and using some fixit moxy, glue it back in. The window flange is the main holding force IMHO anyway. Here's some photos from the deconstruction that may be helpful. Note: I was/am continually amazed how they expected these to stay together for very long ! Below: Here's why I pulled mine: Below: left side panel, no window, I figured I'd rather have some room, so I went for the gusto and removed it right after this ! Below: seal / gasket surface looking down (with panel still intact, inside) Below: right side, panel halfway removed, showing 'big wood retaining screw": Below: Left side window, panel backside, front portion removed, back edge cut with utility knife: Hope this helps, Keep the faith, ToyoGuy

did you replace the window seals or clean them, and re-use it? Hey Supurcar, I reused them, but mine cleaned up pretty good. For the record, the profile on both windows versus that of the shell is not an exact fit at all on mine. As a matter of fact, I had to do some gap filling at the top of the windows where there was about a 3/16" gap between the mating edge of the window and the seal. One of the windows is a bit big and when pushed into the seal, it "puckers' a bit. Also, I am convinced that the angles of the bend in the windows is close, but not exactly the same as the coach. I was going to trim the window ( I work with the stuff all day long), but before I did that, I looked at pictures on the web and saw a lot of other raders with the same issue. (Plus, I was really tired after setting up, pulling, buffing and re-installing them in one day !) When everything is clean and lubed up with soap, with someone's help you can tug a bit here and push a bit there and sort of average out the fit of the windows and spread out the inconsistancies. Plus, it seems when the'yre clean, and you nudge them in as best as you can where you want 'em, rinse 'em, let 'em dry, then caulk them, WOW, they stay put ! I believe one fella was saying he pulled his about every 5 yrs. to clean and re-seal. I am just a stickler for details and MANY times find others who got away with doing less on stuff. BUT, ...................I don't like sleeping wet, and someone once told me "Do the job right, and you'll only cuss once" ToyoGuy

"I was thinking of buying a tube of silicon and pulling the seal back and laying a large amount of it in the track. " Hey Supurcar, This is exactly what I was thinking when I saw the leaks coming thru my front window seals. Thats when I thought I'd do exactly what you're talking about above. Problem was, when I tried to wash out the dirt I saw when I pulled back the seal, there was a ton of crud. One thing led to another, figures huh ?, and that's when I tried blowing out the accumulated grit and dirt with some compressed air. My wife called out "ugh !!!" from the inside, as she saw the mud bubbling up out the inside of the window seal. (See 4th photo from 4 posts ago). I hope you are luckier than I was and don't find a ton of crud in your channel. If you had a lot of junk in there and didn't want to remove the gasket/seal, you could just lay towels around the inside, or use a wetvac and a high-power nozzle on a hose and squirt the heck out of it. For what it's worth, I keep reading that a little bit of caulking goes a long way and I have had best luck using a product I read about in many "re-sealing RV window" posts. It's called "Lexel" and I got it at True Value hardware. ($5.00 a tube) Like lot's of RV types I don't like the silicon-based stuff. I now use this stuff but, as little as possible, to get a good seal. Mostly, it seems about making things fit right and getting them clean before sealing for me. Also, my apologies for the unclear explanation in previous post on the so-called "locking bead", it is located on the outside like this, I pulled it out a bit to show how it works. When it's installed, it can be hard to find the end sometimes. Also, you can see how little sealant it takes when the gasket is clean and tight. The jury is still out on how long the stuff lasts.... The wire you found is probably your clearance lights 12v wiring ? Here's what mine is like: Again, apologies for the confusion, guess my tech-writing ain't what it used to be... BTW, the screw strips look great, now I gotta put another thing on my to do list. BR, ToyoGuy

Hey Robert, You're a brave lad, Bravo! Here is my 2 cents on a few things, and I'm sure there are better/smarter folks out there too. First, here's pix of my carpet upholstery in tearout progress. Maybe this'll help someone wondering what they'll be into: Oh yeah, that's the shower stall overhead, (storage). Also, in reference to the outside joining strip, the first thing I saw when I pulled the side wall out from the cabover, was this nasty, rusty wood screw that had obvoiusly been leaking for years from outside to in. My thought is that many small leaks were at work in my rader, all addressed at one time or another, but not in total. This time, I'm making sure. I removed the 2 wraparounds in my rader, because..... I washed them off in prep to caulk them and used some compressed air to blow out a smidgen of dirt I saw in the wet window channel,... Here is what I saw on the inside: Yow ! The bottoms of the channels were full of accumulated mud from years of driving etc. I tried irrigating them "copiously", but to no avail, so....... I got brave and set up the scaffolding and took them out. I replaced the windshield in my VW when I was a lad, so I figured I could do it, if I was careful. I think it is not for the faint of heart, however, and that I would want some help from an ex body-guy or someone knowledgeable to do it for the first time if I were someone else. That said, for the reckless and young at heart,...... Be VERY, VERY careful with the windows, I don't know where you would get these, if you broke one ! Get a dirty t-shirt on, this stuff gets really dirty and black and bribe a very good friend, who is as dexterious and nuts as you. I couldn't have done this on just 2 separate ladders, I needed the scaffold, I'll leave it at that. Set up what you'll need to suit your self. As you look at the gasket, there is a round rope-like rubber beading that goes in the middle of the outside of the window gaskets of the wraparounds. This is to to lock, or tension the upper and lower lips of the gasket. These can be removed by looking for the end (mine were under the sides around the corner, R & L). CAREFULLY, using an awl, one can "peel out" the end of the rope, to start to remove it. As you keep pulling, it'll go all the way around. You have to have a person inside to catch the plastic window as it comes/falls through. Once all of the "locking bead" is pulled out, set it aside to clean later. The gasket becomes very flexible (careful not to lean on it) and the window can be pushed inside. The Lexan windows can then be removed, cleaned and polished. (Can't remember the appropriate Mc Guires polish#, ask at a plastics place) and the gaskets can be cleaned using a toothbrush and dishsoap and water to clean out the grooves. I put my windows back in using an assortment of plastic body-working spatulas, and even these will scratch the Lexan if not careful. I used painter's masking tape to hold the clean gasket up in the top of the coach opening, and removed it as I worked the window into the groove, bottom, to sides, to top. You will have to lubricate the gasket with dishwashing detergent so the window, and tools will slide and move as you work them around. I had some luck using an old windshield trick on the second window,where with the gasket all installed on/in the vehicle, you put a small (snug fit) nylon rope into the "window" channel/groove starting in the middle of the bottom, around inside the sides, and finally cross the 2 ends in the middle at the top. With someone helping, holding the window against the gasket, you pull the rope out and "THEORETICALLY", it pulls the front portion of the rubber gasket out for a moment allowing the window to slip in. OK,... it takes some practice. At first, before there's much of the window in the groove, it's tough to hold it all together, but, as you get closer to the end, it's easier. You can dry your hands and sort of push and pull the window to get slack to work the gasket to get slack. Be very careful of cutting the gasket, even with the plastic spatulas, but you can actually carefully slide the soapy blade along the groove to "imbed"the window edge. The rubber retainer beading can now be lubricated with soap, and, with someone behind the window holding it, the locking strip, or rope can be pressed in with your non-scratching weapon of choice. The result is a much tighter seal, and excellent surface to apply a small amount of sealant to. Well, that's a bit too much, but it's more than I knew before I did mine. And.......through all kinds of weather since, I have no leaks ! BR ToyoGuy

Hey yostfmx, you got a brother out there ? Here is a shot I came upon from somewhere on the web from months ago, is this you ? Yeah, the lock reciever on the stock lock is in the door, and the bullet-shaped striker is mounted to the frame (totally backwards of the normal ). The thing is, that with a door that small, the stock striker plate is sticking out into the left side of the doorway on this wierd 2x4"carpet monstrosity about 1-2" on mine. It's one of the first things I looked at and thought, "c'mon" . I think for the beach, or anywhere "on the set" that you're keeping a board or "stuff" inside, I'd go with the bolt-on deadbolt you're talking about. Either way there's glasswork, but once you go to standard lock hardware, you got a better lock all together. By the way, I took the whole door and frame outta mine and essentially the whole aluminum frame was only held in by silicon caulking anyway. Yeah, no foolin ! On mine the door had such a big gap at the the bottom, (1 ") that the wind noise drove me nuts. Gonna fix that too now. Anyway, I looked for a looooong time to locate the door hardware, and it seems futile, especially in light of the kluge setup. Another by the way, the marketing tech drawings show the floor as a sandwich of aluminum sheet (1/64" or less in reality), then 1/8" plywood, then styrofoam, then 3/8" plywood. Like this: Lo and behold, mine was built on Friday, and ... tada!!! no lower 1/8" ply ! Oh well. Guess that shower'll have to stay put up in the cabover, shucks. BTW, great input of yours on the fiberglass patch thing ! Man, I LOVE learning that kind of stuff !! Tell your old man thanks too. I'm out. TG

Hey Keith, Thanks man. Are your supports sitting "on top" of the main frame rails like mine, or welded off the sides ? Also, how did you build your frames ? (maybe you got a picture ?) I'm thinking to run them out all the way to the edge and weld crossbars between at the end/edge to stiffen them up. From your picture of your rader,(we're pretty close as far as being gutted out and all) really like the gusto with which you are approaching the project ! I am looking at complete floor replacement and am considering using fiberglass rails sandwiched between outer coverings. I'm looking at all new everything inside and checking out all sorts of material. Oh yeah,... how'd you get your shower stall out ? I'm an inch short of space through any of the windows or door. If I have to, I'll put it up in the cabover while I'm working on the floor etc. But,.... try as I might, I can't figure out how they got it in unless it was before they dropped the lid on the coach. On the door handle, Ive been looking too, but so far no avail. Mines beat, but rebuildable probably. Someone overtightened it and crushed the cutout in the door, so I have to do glasswork anyway, if I decide to put in something else, I'll check with you. Cheers, ToyoGuy

Hey All, I need to compare the lateral bracing under my 18' Sunrader to someone else's to figure out what I'll do with it. See photo. For reasons unknown to me, the ends of the 2"x5/8" steel tubing cross-supports terminate about 6"-8" short of the edge /perimeter of the coach. Can one of you guys take a peek and tell me what you see ? I don't have any examples nearby and there's no working drawings of the structurals of these things that I can find. Thanks, ToyoGuy

Hey Fireman, Not sure if you've taken the plunge yet or not....but, while I have not done fiberglass work on my rader, I have done my share of smaller 'glass projects. I will be doing reinforcing inside mine (18') while it is empty and have by far gotten my best info from boat repair guys in my area. (N. Bay) Also, I picked up a book that's been very informative, (but not so cheap - $25.00 ) The title is "The fiberglass repair and construction handbook" by Jack Wiley. Got mine at Tap Plastics but you can probably do better on price. If you have no experience with fiberglass, it's pretty much common sense stuff, but I would experiment a bit before going after the tough stuff. It looks like you have back interior panel replacement in your future anyway, you might take the time to do the repair / reinforcement while the old wet rotted panel is out, before you replace with new Luan. Or, if you are well-heeled, you can easily get an auto body guy to fix that rear quarter panel for you I think. Good Luck, ToyoGuy

I have a Tom Tom Go model 300 that I have used for both business and pleasure for about 2 years. Have had no problems at all with it and it is really heplful to find restaurants, motels, coffee shops, shopping centers, auto parts shops etc. It will also show your speed (check speedo by satellite!), and estimated arrival time. Mine was pricey at the time, ($300+) but they are much less now. It is especially helpful at the end of a long haul when we are tired and want to eat and freshen up, but thinking not so clearly. We use a suction cup mount and take it from vehicle to vehicle. Be forwarned however, it takes a bit of time to learn to relate to these little talking boxes and you can end up taking a circuitous route every once in a while. With the Tom Tom, no extra antennae, just plug it in and go. ToyoGuy Paul

Reasonable $ considering, good mechanical, with records from previous owner. No rust which is what I wanted most and no wrecks. I wanted to get into a re-do anyway, as I pull it apart I'm not impressed with the materials or basics. I'm going to be buried it this thing and I'm the kind of guy that likes to know everything is tight. Although I didn't expect it, everything works too ! Such a deal !

Well Buick, As I suspected, the plywood flooring is completely de-laminated. I could peel it apart with my hands.All this from window leaks I think. I got the water tank and water heater out yesterday. The cardboard covering for the WHtr was too warped to fit out the hole in the side so I had to cut it. I'll have to fabricate that before it goes back in. Also pulled the inverter box, lot's of wire labeling etc. Today it's the stove and Dometic fridge. Heck, maybe I'll get the shower out too ! I am thinking I' may have to remove the back window for that if it doesn't fit out the door. I'ts the last window I have to pull to reseal anyway, so I saved it for just this possibility. Ah, planning. Will also measure the cabs today. Well, that's it for now, next post I'll send some pix of what you don't want your 'Rader to look like ! TG

The part I'm wondering on is the tie in from floor to wall. That will be the interesting aspect. I'm taking pictures and making templates to re-create the cabinet layout after the tear-out and re-floor right now. I'll know a whole lot more when I can see the joints/corners at the base of all the walls. I figure I'll extend the steel braces underneath all the way to the sides and back(they're a foot short for some reason known only to Gardner Pacific now) and on top, alternate 1"x4" boards and lengths 1/4" of all-thread with a nut and washer every 18" or so to stiffen it up, then pot the whole mess in polyester resin and cloth and cap it with 3/8" ply. Should stay straight after that I figure. Never a dull moment y'know ? Good thing I got lot's of glue and welding rod. TG

Actually, the front end is low, but the overall problem is the coach floor was absolutely saturated and all of the laminations "slipped". THe result is that all perimeter walls are about 2" lower than the center of the coach. Kinda feels like you're standing on a basketball if you're about halfway between the rear dinette and the front seats. Any normal, sane human would run like oooo but, Well...., you know... I'll take some pictures as I remove all of the cabinets and stuff for the benefit of others crazy enough to try this. I'm down to the original 3/8' ply with the foam showing in some places now and it's getting gritty. Regards, TG

Whoops, it's an "84 and the picture titles didn't come thru, but as you can see, the distortion is unnacceptable. The first picture is what's under the previous owner's effort and the rest are right, left and front to back. Thanks, TG

A picture is worth a thousand.... well, you know. Here is how the level sees it.... Thanks for your reply, not a lot of info out there on how to straighten these out. Hope these .jpg's go thru, TG

Hey buick, Looking good on that interior project ! You said you were bracing the floor in a couple of places with steel plate. Any chance you got a look at how the floor is mated to the fiberglass walls in these things? I got a case of sagging floor (sides) that are de-lammed and need to straighten the whole thing out. My plan so far is to pull EVERYTHING out of the coach and use screw jacks around the perimeter of the coach to bring the floor into level, then remove the top layer of ply and foam core, then laminate alternating square steel pipe and plywood crossways (ALL the way across) , after that, glue down 3/8" ply over the whole thing. I just don't know how I'm going to tie into the walls. An alternate plan was to raise the coach and slide some aluminium diamond plate under the perimeters in key spots and tie it into the cross supports somehow. After what you've seen, whattya think ? Thanks, ToyoGuy

Yeah, holes in the doors, bad interior paint job, generally trashed and WAY too much tobacco smell ! Also need to uncover whole floor to rebuild. If I didn't like the thing so much I'd be redoing the guest bedroom instead.

Hey all, Has anyone removed this white weatherseal covering the heads of the anchoring screws for the wall/panel nailers inside ? I am gutting an 18 footer to re-floor and am considering using this method again as opposed to epoxying rails horizontally to screw to. Also, has anyone had any luck re-building framing and cabinets lighter than original by using newer/better/lighter materials ? Thanks, ToyoGuy

Never mind, got nfo elsewhere on this site. ToyGuy

Just wondering, how hard are they to come by ? Sure would be nice........ ToyoGuy

Thanks guys, the measurements were extremely useful as was the rebuilding-cost advice. I'll be keeping my eyes open for a reasonable fixer. ToyoGuy

Thanks Guys, Bill, I am a pretty spartan kinda guy and the ground clearance appeals to the part of me that grits my teeth in expectation when departing steep driveways. The window and floor things are well noted. Do you know if the 18' was made in later years when there was apparently some extra re-inforcement done to the roof preventing buckling near the roof AC box? The axel thing you alluded to seems to be the 6 bolt pattern, original 1 ton package rear end. Can you tell me how wide/tall your rig is at it's widest point ? (gotta deal with storage you know) To anybody,...when a guy gets one of these that ain't so well maintained, I am imagining he can dive in to the tune of $8-10 K in re-conditioning. Am I imagining right, or are retrofits/parts cheaper than I think? Thanks ToyoGuy