bajadulce

Are you intentionally trolling the general forum population here? You're doing a good job of it. Returning something because you didn't like it or had some kind of buying remorse is one thing, but DESTROYING a product by using it in a way it's not designed for and then returning it time and time again is theft. You have a faulty charging system too? I figured a guy living on a farm in PA would be completely off grid independent of the mere city dwellers dependent on their grid tied umbilical cords. His charging needs totally slammed dunked and 100% worry free.

You got nice taste in cars. Might have to start calling you CarmelDave.

Maybe there are some regulating screw/pin settings on your charger to reduce the voltage? And what happens when one replaces a wet battery w/ a gel one in engine compartment in terms of the stock alternator/charging unit? Are those type of starting gel batteries designed w/ this in account? What is the difference in full charging voltage? I see on my Solar Charge unit it has a switch for gel/lead. The gel being less. And are AGM batteries to be charged the same voltage as wet?

Charging a separate 19v external battery pack for the laptop thru solar array would be a good option too. Good suggestion and hadn't thought of adding that to the discussion. Accumulator tank is a smart idea. LED's a given. And the smaller 5v tablet seems like a winner too if it does all you need it to do. I imagine those 5v tablets have inexpensive car charging adapters as well as the AC/DC brick? Might have even came w/ one? Not to stray too far off topic, but: Good point on the $$ T-105s. Have had them in other MHomes (came with the vehicle), but would never spend that kind of $. No way are the gains worth it. Tho in all fairness, golf carts are really hard on batteries by nature and they are the gold standard in the golf industry. But the golf industry is HUGE, and so there must be a lot of competive brands out there. Good chance some are even sold under a different name to mega retailers. The lead plating in 6v batteries might even be damn similar among the various makers too. When you mention the weight issue w/ the 2x6v's vs the 2xG27's are you using them as hybrid use for starting the car as well? Or do you have a 3rd starting battery? The weights seem about the same? Only ask because am in need of a battery/batteries here soon and I see Costco/Sams Club have a 6v battery for about $75 ~ 210ish advertised AH vs the 220 T-105. G24 ~ 50# 80AH G27 ~ 60# 100AH G31 ~ 70# 125AH T-105 ~ 65# 220 AH Costco 6v ~60# 210AH Maybe these figures are too generic.

Hey John. Just saw the numbers buried in the 7th post. Wow, 10 amp savings is a nice bonus for your charging system. Not having to deal w/ loose grounds and burnt out bulbs is a huge gain!

Sounds like you have a nice setup and have done your necessary homework and tweaking. Myself, I have a single G27 Gel Interstate battery that is probably going on 7+ years of use now. Thought about adding a second one (buying 2 new) as my battery is showing signs of wear. Debating whether to go back to 2x 6v for more amp/hours than my current setup or even slightly more extended amp hours w/ 2x12v in parallel such as your system. But this is easily another topic. @2x12v batteries in series for 24v config: Interestingly enough, the actual output voltage of this particular laptop's power brick reads ~23-24 volts (this might change while under load dunno) and so it might be possible to run 28ish volts (2x ~13.8v fully charged 12v batteries in series) directly to the laptop assuming the internals have some regulation/protection of their own. zzzzzappp. My solar system charger is most likely dedicated to 12v charging, but maybe it has some options/settings I don't know about (does have a gel/acid setting). I do own two "12v" solar panels, so the input is there if needed to reconfigure. And pulling a lead off of one battery to power the lights might not be too draining on the charging system as a whole (especially a sytem charged in series). The consensus seems to be it is better to charge in series than parallel as well. Is it possible to charge batteries in parallel and still use in series without switches and/or manual reconfiguration? Can't picture this. I guess if one was running a 24-7 dedicated server off-grid, this 24v battery bank would definitely be a serious consideration. In my case as with yours and most, I'm only running this comp a few hours average/night if that and can't justify the 24v configuration just for this one application. (tho the parallel vs series charging debate might influence a 24v vs 2 parallel 12v config). One other option that hasn't been mentioned is pulling power from the Solar panels to charge the internal batteries (for later use) or even run the laptop (decent amp array) itself during light hours. Solar panels definitely put out more than 12v by design and might be easier to produce regulated 19v or whatever might be needed rather than pulling from the solar's target battery bank. Basically a system already designed to charge 12v power. Maybe you're on to something here: Charge 12v parallel battery bank by day (separate regulated solar feed (pre charger) for laptop day use if feasible) and reconfigure bank for 24v for night use. Guess the tests will answer all this when the stepup regulator finally arrives. I'm sure the energy saved is pretty nominal after all the #'s are in. Hope I'm wrong!

Thnx for linking such an intersting report. Interesting results showing computers working with lower processor load were less efficient due to the "standby" design of the powerbrick. I'm hoping for some of those gains w/ the switching supply as well. My only concern might be that the brick offers a more regulated steady source. Tho I do believe that going throug the DC jack versus the proposed battery pack might offer more additional internal regulation/protection? Tho to be fair the battery pack has its own regulating circuitry and could be done safely as well I believe. Am very anxious to get all my test gear in order and be able to do log my own detailed report soon!

Interesting that the ceiling has battons. I don't think my older 1980 did. Good reference if someone needs to tack up a delaminating panel. That support is anchored through the wall with nuts/bolts and HOLES?. Would be nice if that plate was glassed to the shell's interior walls and ceiling instead. A bigger end flange as well as for ceiling might help for glassing as well. Prob too much hassle/work tho. You may be able to protect the bolts on the exterior w/ a shield/gutter to deflect any water? Assuming the exterior bolts are even exposed? Maybe they were fused/embeded into the chopped glass shell? Is there any sun at all where the rig is parked? Prob will have to do all fiberglassing before noonish and space heaters like you mentioned. For my own project, the interior cabinetry took very little time (maybe a week). Getting to that point, was the bear tho and definitely overwhelming at times. Not to sound cliche, but you don't eat an elephant in one sitting. baby steps and it will come together. How was the ceiling foam? Any sign of leakage? Also, I don't see the gas filler tubing? Maybe that's out of the pic in the foreground? Do you plan to keep the propane in the back and/or the Ushaped seating? If so then that's one less hole to fill up. If no propane back there, then you could order a compartment door from ebay for around $20. A lot less work then filling holes. Even if you didn't go with UShaped seating, having a compartment door back there might be helpful. At one point, thought about shuffling surfboards through a compartment door in that same location, but the front door seemed to provide adequate room. If someone had needs to transport something long like a kayak, this might make a great place for an access hatch. Might even be able to drive w/ the hatch open/kayak hanging a bit out back if dust wasn't a problem. @Roy in Jax: Ya, would be fun to see your project here on these forums as well. You should make a thread. Is that Linda's yahoo forum? I've heard it mentioned quite often.

Syphon hose must have got "clogged" by something forcing him to resort to extra suction in hopes of extracting that liquid gold? When the blockage pressure was finally overcome, must have been quite the surprise.

Hey Kim!Love all the videos you've made. Been meaning to comment, but haven't managed to get around to it. the Blocks are great, the zirk fitting video, skid plates, stray bunny that wandered into your yard, Dodge Chargers, etc. Lots of fun videos. Ya, you do start them all with "OK" Odd how the previous owner stopped half-way w/ the demolition of your camper. Must have realized he was in over his head and too late to turn around. Good stuff.

I did quite a bit of exhaustive reading last night on some various electronic forums specifically those that were modifying laptop battery "packs" for other hobbies as well as a lot of information on rebuilding/modifying existing battery packs. In all cases, "cells" were being used which when configured in series/parallel were able to produce the various voltages as Maineah described needed by the laptop battery control unit. I suppose it would be easy for someone with an electronic background to build a circuit board that would simply duplicate those different voltages from a 12v source, but this is beyond my scope nor anything anyone has tried as far as my limited searching went. Is there a market for something like this? If it would save 1 amp of juice (12watts on a 12v system) in offgrid use, then I believe there absolutely would be. 1 amp/hours of juice might not seem like a lot in savings, and something easily recaptured by even the smallest of solar panels, but amp/hour usage is cumulitive and it does add up. This topic started as more of a rant/vent/search for info, but now is more of a general report/analysis of the varying "popular and available" methods i.e. Inverter-power brick and DC-DC stepup. Will log the various watt usage for each and come up w/ a report. The topic title has been edited to fit the new discussion direction as well. @Converted 19v supply: As mentioned, I have since ordered a DC-DC step up regulator (simple circuit board pulse switch etc. w/ adjustable screw) with what I expect to be able to handle decent amps. I also expect this to be a little more efficient than the dc-ac-dc route. It seems to be the most popular method and it is 1 device converting power rather than 2. Real testing might prove otherwise. To be determined. Unfortunately these electronics won't arrive in time as I am being dragged and forced to Hawaii for 3 weeks again starting day after Thanksgiving. So major bummer! Tests/results to come at a future date.

That's a nice toilet. Your winter living is sounding more like my normal camping routine, no-frills, ultra water conseravtion philosophy. In the process of building a little splash tub that can recycle the water (up to a point). Sounds gross I know.

Looks like a head scratcher! Tuff puzzle. I feel for you. Does everyone absolutely need their own separate personal sleeping arrangement? One big bed is pushing it, but 2 on the floor and 1 on each bench seems reasonable without having to build so many bulky shelf beds and all the engineering those will entail. I think the girls could have a few nice roll out pink blowup back packing mattresses and easily all fit in the back. They're on vacation. They should be able to get along even if that means sleeping a little closer to one another. Good idea utilizing benches that allow you to slide stuff under instead of cabinet style seating. This will allow more floor room for sure. You can remove the crates, place them on the counter as you mentioned, or even some outside. That's precious leg room under the benches should some of the girls sleep on the floor. Just saying bunk beds are unquestionably the solution, but consider the floor as a candidate for the lower bunk. A big concern is where will these kids sit while in transit? That was the joke of the F350 xtra cab photochop. Totem, Bunneys, and Bufbooth travel with a full house as well. Not sure what they do. @FRP and insulation: We used the standard shower FRP from Home Depot. For the interior, it was used as is. For the front windows and roof, additional layers of glass were added to the panel (roller). In all cases, the FRP was used backwards (the textured side not showing) even for the interior as there were a lot of seams that would have been hard to blend in w/ the manufacturer's texture. After all the seams were blended together, some very very light texture was added. Seem to remember using 2 different thicknesses of the rigid insulation for various areas (they sell 1/4 and 1/2 I believe?). Whatever the case, the panels + insulation were a perfect thickness with the window frames. You might consider sealing the open ends of the walls @ the window cutouts. Should water find its way past your window seals, it might protect against water seeping down your insulation. Maybe use some waterproof tape over the wall ends around windows and then cut off excess after you put windows back in (only the lower half). Fiberglassing a small strip of FRP along the top of the walls to act as a window sill and encase your walls/window cutouts would be really nifty. Basically your windows would just fit into a closed system, but this would be quite a bit of work. The lower sill prob all that's needed. Encasing the entire window cutout might be a bit overkill.

Asking price seems about right, but it is just an asking price and owner needs a little leverage. I think the key line in that ad reads "..Trades possable but I am looking for cash". I read that as "I'm willing to settle for something of lesser value". I'd offer 7000 and see where it goes. If he tells you to take a hike, then so be it. Even at full price, you won't lose your money and will be able to get a lot of that back if not the full amount. But 8K (80% asking price) seems like a good negotiable ground if I was a seller. Some sellers are out to make $$ and other's (like myself, don't LIKE strangers and don't have the patience for buyers) just want to sell and get on with it. Very few ppl want to be used car salesman.. I certainly don't. The pictures are a bit small, but looks like a nice rig.

I currently have a single 12v sealed gel battery that is probably close to 6 years old now. The nice feature of this type of battery is it doesn't require venting and so it resides inside the camper under a bench. My previous motorhomes all used T-105's (Trojan 6v golf battery). While they did require occassional maintenance as well as venting, they were hands down much better performer. But they came w/ the vehicles and never went out and tried to replace one $$$. Will be needing a new battery here soon, am a little on the fence about going back to 6v wet cell. I have read a lot of positive reviews from the BIG RV'ers on both the SAM's club and Costco 6v battery. The performance gain of Trojan/Interstate etc battery doesn't seem worth the extra $$. If do go 6v wet, will have to build a containment box (prob out of frp) and vent to the outside (prob up front). Need to do some researching on proper venting. The true deep cell (typical 6v golf battery) is a better performer. I've read old timers swear to putting a few ounces of mineral oil in their cells as well? @Stamar returning batteries to Costco: You're not doing anything "illegal" so to say, but something is absolutely wrong with your system and you're using Costco as a recharge center. Costco might gain a lot of business because of their return policy, just like Home Depot, Walmart, or any other super retailer, but some of the things ppl pull are a bit much. I saw a guy return bedsheets after they were clearly used! When do we draw the line? Then again corporate super retailers and big business have screwed over mom and pop retailers. They can't compete with that kind of bulk $$ buying power. And a mom and pop retailer surely couldn't survive with those kinds of return policies. So ya agree w/ the others, what you're doing is abusing the system. Whether they need a screwing is another topic. Must be a pita to keep returning batteries tho.

nice shop! Neighbors are great. Installation looks good John. Ppl should be sleeping in RVs at night, not driving! Can't say am crazy about the size of the hole in the aluminum in such a vulneralble spot as the overhead cab (and on a currogation as well! Looks like there was "clean" space just an inch below), but that's out of your control and pretty typical of RV construction. Is there any kind of shielding around that hole to prevent those wires from getting cut (road vibrations etc)? Maybe the light's plastic housing protudes a bit into that hole @ the feeds? I've had all sorts of problems in RV's with innocent things rubbing on one another. brake lines, wires etc. Tho do tend to drive a lot of washboard.

Bought a regulating DC-DC circuit board on Ebay today for fun. Was really cheap, but will take awhile to get here. Now can do the full array of experiments and report on the efficiency of the various methods. *#'s to be based on laptop w/o battery pack. CD drive will not be used. Any suggestions on how to keep the CPU usage/internal fan at a constant? Was thinking a video or a game w/ a static menu screen? Household 110AC - power brick = numbers to come. Killawatt meter on loan in Oregon 12vDC - 400W DC/AC inverter - power brick = will check today 12vDC - DC-DC stepup = 12vDC - internal battery = battery remains in place with feeds. still experimenting 12vDC - DC-DC stepdowns bypass internal battery = still experimenting I'm a little confused on the coaxial/shielding etc of the 19v powerbrick supply cord. Have a few old laptops and power sources to experiment with and so 2 are now taken apart. One is chopped from brick (Dell) and other (T60) is dissassembled at power brick. The old dell power supply had 2 shields and the inner 3rd signal wire (which had voltage btw). The disassembled T60 powerbrick has only 2 wire feeds (but also has the 3rd signal wire pin on it's connection prong end). Here's some generic pics from internet: expecting this but have this and you can clearly see the "pin". Maybe the T60 doesn't have any voltage on that pin like the Dell did? Will check w/ probe. Probably the dell has 3 wires at its base (need to disassemble). Curious as to where these feeds transform to their coaxial shielding in these type of cables? Good news is, looks like we'll be able to use the dc-dc stepup at the 2 feeds directly. The 3rd signal wire or pin will not be an issue in the T60. ... wattage #'s to come.

Greg sent an email that indeed he had updated the forum's software over the weekend. In the process some of the software updates were in limbo and possibly why the boards were acting funny (as well as the potential google malware report etc.) But all is installed and working properly now.

But how cool would it be to walk into your local Starbucks with a Frankenstein laptop with wires hagning out hooked up to a huge car battery strapped to a dolly! Point is, that the battery is no longer in the laptop needing 19v to charge, but rather the battery is a 12v deep cylce battery bank (tuked somewhere out of sight in a cabinet etc) with hundreds of watt/hours at disposal and being topped off daily by the solar or whatever battery recharging method already used for those banks. Not some additional charging of internal laptop batteries. I found a German hobbyist that built a "desktop" unit powered by a solar panel, which is on similar lines. Was a fun read might look for link to share.

Ah good point about the dimmer lcd when powered by the battery pack. This might be a blessing for offgrid use. Lower power consumption would seem a good thing. Wonder if the laptop's battery power options, such as screen brightness, can be adjusted via the computer's BIOS or OS/software?

I haven't got it to work yet Just thought I'd jot down my thoughts, condense writings and then seek more info around various laptop forums. If you come across anything in your web surfing, link here! The idea is that a 19v computer doesn't actually need this much voltage to operate (not charge, just run). And to attack the problem at the lowest voltage, the 11.1V internal battery pack, rather than the power charging jack. I'm not electronically stupid, but am limited to simple knowledge/experience w/ the subject. There are 4 solders to the battery's control unit from the physical battery cells. These 4 connections would seem the gateway into the computer. I don't have a schematic of this power board, but will try to find one online. The fantasy would be that only the 2 (11.1v +/-) connections would be needed and the 2 lower voltage connections related to the sub cells aren't important or possibly have to do w/ charging the individual cells. Here's a generic pic from the web showing the typical 4 leads. That 5th wire is a thermistor of sorts that monitors the batteries heat.

Ongoing tests/discussion about the various ways to power a laptop (requiring more than standard 12v DC supply) Made a post in the "best laptop for RV" topic, but want to expand on the power supply end of the process more than the laptop itself. Not interested in laptop specs, how energy efficient, how much power, or latest o.s etc they have. Just the power supply and what fulltime offgrid community might be doing to get around the "conversion" factor. Years ago (before laptops were so cheap) we built a "12v" computer system with a mini-itx motherboard and 12v flat screen monitor. A nifty DC-DC ATX pin adapter was used to convert the 12vDC to the various lower voltages needed for the motherboard (12v, 6v, 3v, etc). None of the volts were over 12v and so it was pretty simple. Prob not as effecient as it sounds with all the resistance, but there was no need for an inverter nor DC stepup to attain 19v. Earlier laptops used 12v DC jacks (internal batteries were prob 9v). We ran one directly off a camper battery/solar for 3 months in the winter of 1996. I believe it was a Toshiba? Might not have even had windows95! Nowadays laptops typically require 19 volt inputs and we are forced to do some kind of conversion for our system to work on 12v battery bank. For myself, a small 300W inverter along with the laptop's AC/DC converter brick has worked decent enough, but the process is not the most effecient. 12DC converted to AC (via inverter), converted back to 19v DC (via the laptop ac/dc power brick) and then charge up a 12v internal battery pack! And Stephen mentioned that the laptop screen requires its own AC and so the laptop does its own internal DC-AC converting as well! For those that just want to plug into their car battery for limited use, the market is flooded with all sorts of DC-DC step up converters. Maybe a tad more efficient than inversion (tests will show). And so will be investigating this route here soon. The question tho would seem is it possible to run a "19v" computer without DC-DC stepup nor Inverter-Converter? Quoting my post: After doing a little research on the internet, I have found several posts describing ppl able to get their 18-20V laptops working with car battery voltage. In all the instances, the users reported that while the computer "ran", but their laptop batteries did not charge. Maybe this was their own particular model or perhaps they were actually powering via the batteries and not realizing it.Many of us aren't looking for a "portable" computer and don't care if the batteries aren't being charged. In fact, best would be for the internal batteries to be removed for an off-grid application such as an RV. None of the laptops used in our household connected to 110AC have battery packs! And we've used the laptop in the RV off the inverter/power brick batteryless as well. (obviously "backup work" in case of power failure isn't a concern). So if you could get laptop to run as described with12v input into the 19v jack, then that would prob be the end of this discussion. But I couldn't get any of the different test machines to run this way. And so what about the internal battery pack itself? Unfortunately the computer's battery pack is a little more sophisticated than that (or so it seems). There are several voltages and signals being sent to the motherboard via different battery cell serial/parallel configurations. Looks like about 3 different voltages and 4 connections to the battery configuration. Now, it might be possible to recreate those voltages, but haven't came across any info or hobbyist who has tried thisWhich brings up another option: External battery packs. These batteries boast much larger capacity and can "extend" your battery usage. But the kicker is they hook up to the 19v DC jack and thus start "charging" your dead 12v internal batteries thus equalizing the 2 battery banks. Dumb idea. A backup battery pack should plug into the internal battery compartment, not the laptop charging port! Or at the least disconnect your internal batteries. And how does one go about recharging a 19V external battery pack in a 12v system such as an RV? These are simply meant as extended "portable" solutions. But we're not interested in portability. Instead, this external battery pack should be another "internal" 12v battery pack. In our case a bank of 12v deep cycle batteries with hundreds of Amp hours of use! So that's where we are. My inverter/converter brick is working fine and have plenty of solar/amp storage, but it is a nagging itch to bypass all the necessary conversion. Some say they were able to bypass the internal "charging" by connecting a lower 12v directly to the 19vDC jack. I couldn't get mine to work. I think a better approach would be to fool the laptop into thinking it's internal 12v battery pack was actually supplying the power NOT the 19v "charging" jack. ???? ... to be continued.

We have a couple of older laptops laying around, and might try hooking one up to 12v direct even tho the AC/DC adapter reads 18v output. My hunch is that this voltage is not the actual voltage required to run the laptop but rather to charge the laptop's battery? Of course will remove the laptop battery. Just an experiment for fun. Will edit post/report back. Edit: Just looked at the laptop's battery. Sticker reads 11.1V @ 48W/H. So would suspect that if supplying 12+VDC to the adapter jack won't run the machine, bybassing the jack via the laptop's battery terminals should. Tho there are several battery terminals on the "pack" which would indicate different voltages and signals being sent to the mobo... to be continued. * Dissassembled the laptop's battery pack: Looks like there are 6x ~2v batteries and a fancy controller device. Edit2: Appears the AC/DC adapter has more to it than just what's described on the label! There is a 3rd core wire showing about 10v? The outter/inner shields are the + and - 19v Edit3: Well crap doesn't seem to want to fire up via the single feed. I tried with the 2 negative wires (11v and 18v negative feeds) hooked up as well but without luck. So must be more going on via the jack than the simple run/charge power lol. Will have to do a little more researching. Oh well gave it a try. Prob would have to hook up directly to the battery pack as noted earlier w/ several different feeds/voltage drops etc. Way way back in the early computing/offgrid days, there was a small circuit board available that would replace the standard AC/DC power box inside typical desktops w/ a 12vdc input. You simply plugged this into your motherboard with the standard male plug and it did all the necessary reducing to 6v, 3v and 12v, etc. This was real popular w/ the mini-itx platforms and I built one myself (came as part of a case actually). So something like this could be fabricated to bypass the internal laptop battery as well (i.e. replace the 12v internal laptop battery w/ an external 12v source). Edit. Here's that mini-itx circuit board was describing above: link here

Terry, more like deja deja deja deja vu. Wow, like Derek said, you're going to need to be a magician for all that. Kids like tents! I found this on Sacramento Craig's List. Prob snatched up by now. Can't find link, but saved a pic tho:

Holly crap! Your poor wife and daughters! And that rig looked like it was in decent shape too! I can't blame you for wanting a more functional/roomy home tho. No ideas what your plans are, but I really like the concept of 1 long useful counter and seating/chill out area on the opposite side if you can fit it in your plans. If the fridge is set on the floor next to the wheel well (rather than on top), I'm pretty sure it will fit under a counter (tho you'll have to do something about venting). I need to look up the dimensions for the interior of 21' sunrader out of curiousity. Would be fun to chime in on some ideas for a clean slate as well! Whatever your next move, try not to go overboard w/ the project trying to make the camper nicer than it has to be. You're not going to retire w/ this camper. There will be others. Just make it comfortable and decent enough for the kids to enjoy and get back on the road. If you aren't done with the interior by August 2013, then you're spending way too much time on it. I mean it and am gonna keep harpin on you. How's the floor? Roof? Good idea on salvaging the old shower to fill up some unwanted holes. That's a pretty thick sheet of fiberglass and will work fantastic. And it has a smooth gel coat surface too. ... to be continued for sure.