gpchoochoo

Man I am jealous !!!!!! I have to make due with the old wore away Appalachian Mountains over here on the right coast. But the place we really want to get to is southern Utah. Bryce Canyon, Zion, Arches State Park and places like that. Hopefully we will get out that way before too long. We went to Yosemite, Kings Canyon, and Sequoia Nat parks in Oct. 09 and loved it there. Well the non tourist parts anyways. Good Luck fishing and have a great day GP

Well the memory thing I can deal with ok cause I figure I wont know I forgot it , it's the dang eye thing that kicks my butt (besides a foot). And ya know it seems everything ya need to do is right at the tweener range when ya just can't see it for poop. And then there the neck strain from try'n to get the bifocol in range. I think I might have to pay someone to hold extra glasses so I can swap them out as needed. They would also be able to tell me where the tool I just laid down ran off too. Seems I spend half my time looking for what was just in my hand 2 seconds before. I thought about solar but I,am not sure here in Maryland it would be worth it. Not enough sun 1/2 the year. And we use the Toy for hiking and often am parked in the woods. What part of the world do you use your solar panel WME ? Have a great day GP

Here is a picture of the 20 gallon ( so I have been told ) extra tank that lives behind my rear end. I am gonna put a small pump so I can pump it up to the main tank once in a while so the gas for the genset doesn't get too old. I thought about hooking them together but worry that one would overfill the other if parked on a hill and more then 3/4 full. Besides it wont be that much problem to flip a switch for a few minutes. Have a great day !!! GP

I have to say I agree.

According to the Trojan web site they don't make a 105 AH AGM battery. They make other size AGM but not 105AH. 105 AH are wet cell battery. So what are we talking about here? Have a great day GP

I got the fax of the tank size. Jacob said it's 35 gallon but you might only get 32-33 out of it. It's in the images place I think. Hope this helps. GP

With your vast knowledge of batteries I am surprised you don’t know about Lifeline whose parent company Concorde Aircraft Battery developed the AGM technology in the 80’s. Have a great day GP

Sorry Derek I don't have a fax set up. I asked if he could email it and he said no. I was thinking the same thing about adding it here. If you give me a number to have him fax it to I'd be happy to call them back. Have a great day Gary in Maryland</SPAN>

I just called them and spoke to Jacob and he said they would be $650 for one and it would take more then 10 to get a discount which might not be much and the kicker is they never shipped any of these because they are a major pain to install. They did the install at thier place. He said he can fax the plans for the tank. Have a great day all !! Gary in Maryland

Maineah, I am not sure why you want to argue a moot point but maybe since you know better than the battery company you should contact them and set them straight so they stop telling people the wrong stuff. http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/ Then you can find who ever named it an alternator and tell them it’s really a battery charger. But everyone in the battery business that I spoke to said an alternator makes a poor battery charger so it might take you awhile to set that straight. Just going on your last comment let’s say that the little Toy alternator can’t charge the batteries fully so I plug in my spiffy new inverter which charges them all the way up to the tippy top. Now I leave for a 3 hour drive to our hiking spot and the alternator is over charging the already full batteries the whole way. If you understand the workings of the voltage regulator and alternator then you know it will raise the current to maintain the preset voltage (in most cases 13.8) which is ½ volt greater than the batteries should get while in float stage. If you don’t agree with this then you need to find someone else to argue with because there is nothing else I can say. No matter which way you go, it’s either over charging or undercharging, both of which are bad and that’s why I am not hooking up to the alternator. I think we will have to agree to disagree here and move on. Have a great day Gary in Maryland

Sorry Maineah I have to go by what the battery maker says. I figure they know best. Quote "The most efficient method of charging Lifeline® AGM batteries is to use a 3 stage charging profile. In the first stage, a constant current is applied until the voltage reaches a pre-set limit. The first stage is often called the Bulk charging stage. In the second stage, the voltage is held constant at the same pre-set limit until the charging current tapers to a very low value, at which point the battery is fully charged. The second stage is often called the Absorption charging stage. A voltage limit of 14.3 volts ± 0.1 volts (7.15 ± 0.05 volt for a 6 volt battery) should be used when the battery temperature is 77°F (25°C). The battery is fully charged when the current drops below 0.5% of the battery’s rated capacity (0.5A for a 100Ah battery). In the third stage, the charging voltage is reduced to a lower value that minimizes the amount of overcharge, while maintaining the battery at 100% state of charge. This third stage is often called the Float charging stage. A float voltage of 13.3 ± 0.1 volts (6.65 ± 0.05 volts for a 6 volt battery) should be used when the battery temperature is 77°F (25°C)." The charging system in most cars will generally produce a voltage between 13.5 and 14.4 volts. All higher then the float voltage called for by Lifeline. Have a great day Gary in Maryland

Well I did find a ARS-5, 12V, 3-step voltage regulator which would fit the bill for not over charging the batteries with the alternator but at $270 I am not sure I will need it. Just what the doctor ordered for charging with the alternator in 3 stages and not over charging.. Hmmm I do have a birthday coming up though !!!!! I can send my address to anyone who may be feeling generous or maybe just bumped thier head. Gary in Maryland

Waiter that formula is for a perfect operating alternator under ideal setting and speed. When in real life the "Efficiency of automotive alternators is limited by fan cooling loss, bearing loss, iron loss, copper loss, and the voltage drop in the diode bridges; at part load, efficiency is between 50-62% depending on the size of alternator, and varies with alternator speed." Quoted from Horst Bauer (ed.) Automotive Handbook 4th Edition, Robert Bosch GmbH, Stuttgart, 1996, ISBN 0-8376-0333-1, page 813 Thats the problem with trying to use an alt to charge the batteries, there is no way of controling what it is doing. Besides being about voltage its also about amps which you can't control in the manner that the AGM batteries call for.

The point of not hooking to the truck alt was so I didn't overcharge the AGM batteries which it would. The alt output is higher then the float charge for AGM's so at some point you could start to overcharge. The folks in the business that I spoke to all agreed that overcharging is bad and is the only way AGM's will outgas. It's important due to where I placed everything that the batteries do not outgas. So unless I can find a reasonable 12 volt source smart ( 3 stage) charger I think it's best not to hook to the alt. The saving a little gas is just away of justifying my lunitic thinking. Have a great new year Gary in Maryland

Well I got it all in and used it twice and it works great so far. Still have to fine tune some stuff. Need to run a new wire for the starter on the genet and going to add one more 110 plug thats going to come right from the 110 shore power box. I will put it all together soon and post it. On the weight part I took out 68 pounds of converter and 1 marine battery and put in 132 pounds of battery (2 6 volt lifeline AGM) and 59 pounds of inverter.so I gained around 120 pounds total. Once I get another 10 gals of gas out of the rear gas tank that will take care of most of the added weight. When I got the RV the rear tank was full (20 gallons) So I figure 5 gallons will be enough for the genset. 15 gals less = around 110 pounds so it will weight pretty much the same as it ever has to me. The batteries and inverter are just a panel apart so the 3/0 wire I used is very short. Longest piece goes to the new bolt I welded onto the frame for the ground which is only 3 feet. Only thing i dont much care for is if you have shore power hooked up the charger is charge'n and even if it's in the float stage it still runs the fans. They are not that loud but I wasn't expecting that. I thought you could cut the charger off. I am thinking after the warrenty is up I will slip inside the inverter and put a switch so I can turn the charger off when I want too. Can't be that hard to do. Also while most times we do 1 or 2 day hiking/biking trip we did 7 day 6 night run up through New York to see the leaves change and it was big as we needed even for that time. One thing though me and the wifey really get along great so the small space is no problem for us. Now if it was my ex then I am sure one of us would be dead by now. Hope everyone is have'n a great new year Gary in Maryland PS Due to the fact that the truck alt is not a battery charger and it's not regulated I am not hooking it up to the new batteries. If I could find a 12 volt source smart 3 stage charger that wasn't out the wazoo in cost I would try that but with no way to keep the alt from over charging the batteries I am just not gonna hook it up. Beside its not free power, you lose MPG what you work the alt hard, it's why engines slow when you hook to dead battery it becomes that much harder to spin the alt.

But the point is I don't want to have to "make due or get by with". I want it just like in the house as much as I can. That was the point of spending the 10,000 on the MH. We could have got by with a tent and pooping in the woods but didn't want that. That's kinda the same idea with the inverter. I don't want to have to worry about how much carbon mono the stove is putting in the air inside in the winter when we go hiking. So then you have to open the window for fresh air. Now you have to sit in a coat inside while you make coffee then reheat the inside after you close the windows. Still seems to me the easiest way is the inverter. At 54 I dont wanna do things the tough way if I can help it !!!!!! Hey it just came to me the problem is with this, I asked the wrong question. I thought why is everyone tring to give me other ways to do it and it came to me because thats what I asked. I should have been clear in what I was asking which is, I want it to be just like home , get up sit around in my PJ's and plug in the drip coffee maker,and watch a little tv on a regular sized tv while the coffee is brewing without the whole house being vibrated by the genset. So the question should have been whats the best way to do that. An inverter is the only way to do that without being plugged in somewhere . In my somewhat worthless opinion after reading alot of things about it online a pure sine wave inverter is the best way to go. Not the cheapest but the best. 2 AGM batteries again not the cheapest but since the Toy houses really don't dont have any outside storage the best way And the Model EMS-HW30 is more then just a surge protecter. I got the Toy house 3 months ago and in my case someone had cranked the idle screw in so if I had plugged my tv in before I tested it I think it would have fried the tv. So I feel it's like an insurance policy of all the electric stuff inside including the inverter. Because it protects from not only surges but high (in my case) and low voltage and Hz it's a must have. So did that clear things up or just confuse it ? I am known for doing stupid well with little or no effort !!!! I still want to thank everyone who took the time to reply. Have a great day all Gary PS next time I will ask the wifey if I am asking the right question, she's the smart one in our house !!!!

First off Greg, thanks for taking the time to reply. Opinions are what I am looking for no matter which way they go. My thinking is that I will need a good charger which comes with the inverter. Also after mapping out our electric needs for our short 1,2 or 3 day hiking/biking trips the 2 batteries should handle it without charging or running them past 50 %. We only use the microwave for 2 bags of popcorn. total 6 minutes. And the fact that alot of places do not want the genset going ( including the "Boss") it seems an inverter is what best fills our exact needs. I do not plan on recharging with the genset often. More then likely just to give the genset a little workout. Most times the truck will do alot of the charging because we use the Toy House for hiking and put anywhere from 4 to 6 hours of drive time each trip. So I think mostly I will only plug it in to top off the batteries. I know the truck alt. is not a charger but will put the bulk charge in during the drive. I know that cuts down the mpg also. But there are trade offs in everything. If we are going to a campground with electric I can cut the charger off and just use the campground's juice to charge . The inverter I am thinking about is 90 % efficient and if you add the 2 to 5 minutes of warm up and cool down for each time you use the genset it's really not gonna run much more even if I only used it to charge the batteries. It's gonna be the coffee maker that is hardest on the batteries and I have to say that while I was losing 120 pounds one thing I didn't give up was my drip coffee and I ain't gonna do it now either if I can help it !!!!!! We feel the closer we can make the Toy house like our planted house the better. Thanks again to everyone who took the time to reply. Have a great day Gary I agree. I have a small laptop that can play DVDs, tune HD TV channels, surf the Internet, its my mobile entertainment system. Runs 8 hours on a charge and I have an adapter that I can plug into 12vdc. Most of my lighting is LED. My wife makes coffee by boiling in a tea kettle then pouring a cup of coffee through a special gizmo that sits on top of the cup. Inverters waste a ton of energy in the conversion to 120vac. I think you might be under estimating the time it will take to recharge two agm batteries with the generator after you really run them down. If you microwave something how long does that take. The generator will have to run longer to recharge the batteries after running the microwave off of the inverter than just starting the gen for a little bit to run the micro directly and pop the popcorn. Plus the $$ amount, yeowy. Anyhow I think two agm batteries is a great idea but for me the additional cost and support needed to run an huge inverter is not worth the return. And as the batteries drop in charge the inverter is going to want even more amperage from the batteries to supply its output current. Don't mean to sound negative, I just think inverters for everyday use is a bad idea.

I didn't mean the microwave and coffee at the same time !!! But you are right that would take some mean cables !!!! I am thinking either under the sink with the batteries and in the bottom of the closet for the inverter or all of them in the closet. But the AGM's can be laid sideway, on end or right way up. That may be handy. I still think AGM's are the way to go. The inverter is somewhat over kill at 2000 watts but it should be running in its most efficient level. And when I take all things into consideration, charger size, wattage, quality, how long I think it will last and price the Xantrex just seems best. I really only need 1250 or 1500 watt inverter but for what seems to be the same money I can get this one. It's hard being dumb but I do it well !!!! Gary

Well I figure if I am going to do it I might as well make it able to keep us from needing the genset. So that would include the popcorn in the microwave (1050 watt draw), 2 pots of coffee, etc. Plus since we hike in the winter we will be watching 3 hours or so of dvd's ect. So by getting the bigger inverter we can run the coffee maker and microwave. Inverter $915 shipped. Also the inverter also has nicer large charger which is a plus. 2 AGM batteries - most likely will cost 400-450 for the 2. I think AGM is best for us because they can take advantage of the larger genset we have to charge with, so on the odd times we need to charge the genset will run a good bit less. Because I will have to make a new spot for the battiers the AGM's will be so much easier due to not needing the venting the others do. Also without installing some sort of sliding battery tray watering them would be quite the chore. I'am going to get the Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C to protect everything in the house no matter what else we do. $250. Since this will be a like new install ( I only have the 1 marine battey under the sink) I figure it will take $200-250 in wire, ends, fuses ect. After doing my best to figure what it will take to do everything we need for a long week-end hiking trip I think this will cover it. I looked at not running the micro and coffee maker off an inverter but when you figure in a good battery charger, smaller inverter for the tv and maybe a second battery what I have above really doesn't cost that much more. We have the real lounge and the 4.0 Onan is under the couch and it turns the whole house into a humming massage chair. It's not really that bad to put up with but if we can get away from it for a few hundred more then we figured go for it. And I am sure anyone nearby would be happy not to hear my genset running. Alot of spots you are not allowed to run it at all or very limited times. And you know when you need your coffee you need your coffee !!!!! The converter is in the wall just inside the door and goes into the bottom of the closet and due to the large size of the inverter I think it will have to go there. The batteries may have to stay under the sink. Should be around 6 feet between the 2 which I think is a tad long but will be ok. Might see if I can get the batteries in the closet also but not sure of the weight being on that side and also the fuel fill tube angles across the bottom of the closet which makes it a challenge. Really need to get the pieces and then figure out how to fit them in. I tried looking for a 1250 or 1500 watt inverter but it seems to me the Xantrex Freedom SW 2000 inverter/charger is the best deal / value. I also feel a pure sine wave is the way to go since we are looking at running the micro and tv. It would kick my butt to put in a modified sine wave and it screw with either the micro or tv. I think this is really the only thing that cost more then it has too. But after going nearly blind reading about it all it seems best thing to do. Thanks fo any input !!! Gary

After OCD'n on it for a week I think I am going to put a Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C surge protecter, 2 AMG batteries and a Xantrex Freedom SW 2000 inverter/charger in my 90 Odyssey. Should be around 1700 for parts. We think it will get us through the 2 days we use it hiking around here including making 2 pots of coffee and 3 hours of tv and dvd, lights, water pump and such. Part of my says WONDERFUL love improvements and doing them, but part of me says 1700 dollars , I must be nuts. Any opinions ? While the Freedom SW 2000 inverter/charger is kind of over kill a tad bit it does seem to be the best deal and bang for the buck. The 100 amp charger and AMG batteries should be a fast charge on the Onan 4 KW genset it has in it should the need arise to recharge on the road. Plus we drive alot to the trailheads and stuff. Only had the Yota 3 months but have been in 8 states and 5400 miles and love it more now then when we got it. So sound like a good idea ?? Any suggestions are welcome. Thanks Gary Update Jan,22 2011- Photos of the install are in Members Albums under The Big Inverter Install . Also a small explanation of what each photo is. If anyone has any questions I would be happy to share what I learned doing this. Update-2 March 21, 2011 Well Lifeline says the batteries will be up to full speed in 20-30 charges. After 9 ours are doing a great job. Did 3 day hiking/biking trip heater on for 2 days and 4 pots of coffee and the lights at night and the inverter shows the batteries to be at 73%!!!! Far better then I had hoped for. Ran the genset for 1 hour on the drive home which brought the charger down to the absorption at 23 amps. The bulk charge ran for 28 minutes. So a quick top off with the 120 from my house and we are ready for the next trip. Still working on how to charge with the truck alt Update #3 Nov. 16, 2011 Well we are tring our best to wear out our Toy. The battery / inverter Is all I had hoped for. Went with the high dollar Sterling Power Battery to Battery smart charger and much to my surpise the little toy alt. is keeping the bateries in a fine state of charge. Seems the only time I run the genset is to give it a work out. And since getting the batteries in we never use campgounds. Wally world is our new second home !!! Hope everyone is having as much fun with their Toy House as we are.