Jump to content

Boondockit

Toyota Advanced Member
 View Profile  See their activity

  • Posts

    77

  • Joined

  • Last visited

 Content Type 

Posts posted by Boondockit

    OK, should this thing be here? If not, what should? (minicruiser)

    in Electrical

    Posted · Edited by Boondockit

    42 minutes ago, WME said:

    Simple answer WFCO 8725. Start over and make it right. Add the 30 amp AC input breaker, that way you can grow your AC system for a microwave or an A/C

     http://www.bestconverter.com/WFCO-8725P-Power-Center_p_50.html

    ok, I see this:

    Quote

    and total of up to three 20-Amp branch AC circuits can be installed

    I have 5 or so AC outlets throughout the coach, what is the difference between circuits and outlets? (or maybe you can tell me if 5-6 outlets are ok with this box)...

     

    OK, should this thing be here? If not, what should? (minicruiser)

    in Electrical

    Posted · Edited by Boondockit

    Thanks so much to all, I really appreciate your time and expertise...

    I will follow advice given and redo the electrical system, I have a friend with electrical experience to help me but no RV per se...

    If anyone would be forgiving of my needing so much hand holding and would be willing to recommend a setup (piece by piece by brand and model to acquire) I would love that, also wire gauges best for that setup (I am going to keep the 12v fuse panel as suggested).

    I would seek recommendations for (links if you have 'em):

    • The right 120 Box replacement suggestion (with recommended gauge wires)
    • The best converter charger for my needs (make and model) and correct gauges to go to battery
    • The right gauge to go back to 12v fuse panel (from battery)
    • Anything else that I am probably missing here

    The best outlet to replace the one the current Schumacher charger is plugged into

    I am an IT pro, I never understand when people say they are envious of my knowledge and that they would give anything to know what I know but in this situation I really feel that way about those helping me here, thank you,,,

     

     

    OK, should this thing be here? If not, what should? (minicruiser)

    in Electrical

    Posted

    27 minutes ago, zulandio said:

    On mine that is where all the Negative wires go to complete the circuits as well as a wire from negative battery.

    OK! Thanks!

    I found the connection from my battery into 12V distribution box (or vice versa)

    A= Wire to battery

    B= Connection point to box (it shares the terminal into the 12V box with the positive big white wire coming from schumacher)

     

    If there was actually juice coming into 12v distribution box from a converter charger, would this one wire (A)  serve a dual purpose of allowing/sending current to charge the battery as well as receiving  current from battery into the box for distribution to house amenities?

    batteryconnection.jpg

    OK, should this thing be here? If not, what should? (minicruiser)

    in Electrical

    Posted

    4 minutes ago, jdemaris said:

    As long as the wires between the never converter and the battery and DC panel are large enough, yes.  It all depends on what size converter you buy and also what sort of battery charge capability is has.

    I see, thanks, I would get the type of converter charger that plugs directly in to the outlet (where the existing schumacher is now) so that should be ok for the dc panel right? I have to find which wire leads to battery on this rig...thanks!

    OK, should this thing be here? If not, what should? (minicruiser)

    in Electrical

    Posted

    45 minutes ago, Maineah said:

    Yes that is an accurate diagram. $5 says your 120 volt load center is not wired correctly. I see not frame ground from the box etc. I would go with a 60 amp box (pretty normal RV box) it will have 4 breaker slots.It needs to be wired as a sub panel with an isolated neutral. There is one breaker and two circuits and your outlet for your 120 volt system the plug and the romex leave a lot to be desired. Romex is not a good choice for RV's for any voltage  unless it is fastened down due to vibration because of the solid wire. RV/boat type 12 volt sheathed wire has stranded wires inside. It is not what I would call a safe wiring job.

    Here is a pic of the 120 box,

    A = Wire going straight down from box to hole in floor

    B= An attached (twisted) wire leading to the big white wire (see very first pic in post at top

    C= the exposed wire coming out of the big white wire that leads to nowhere (you can see this nowhere wire in very first pic at top of post

    THANKS Maineah!

    120.jpg

    OK, should this thing be here? If not, what should? (minicruiser)

    in Electrical

    Posted

    9 hours ago, zulandio said:

    That's how my system is setup. Like I was saying yours doesn't seem right. Is there other wires somewhere that may go to your battery around there? Perhaps look at the connections on your battery and see where they go and what color they are. Try and trace them. I see a white wire with green and another regular one? Are there two wires or is that just the same wire going to the charger?

    I have to get a tone tester to see which ones go to battery, will answer when I do...thanks for your help...

    OK, should this thing be here? If not, what should? (minicruiser)

    in Electrical

    Posted

    3 minutes ago, Maineah said:

    Yes that is an accurate diagram. $5 says your 120 volt load center is not wired correctly. I see not frame ground from the box etc. I would go with a 60 amp box (pretty normal RV box) it will have 4 breaker slots.It needs to be wired as a sub panel with an isolated neutral. There is one breaker and two circuits and your outlet for your 120 volt system the plug and the romex leave a lot to be desired. Romex is not a good choice for RV's for any voltage  unless it is fastened down due to vibration because of the solid wire. RV/boat type 12 volt sheathed wire has stranded wires inside. It is not what I would call a safe wiring job.

    THANKS, I just went out and shot these, does it help?

    12vboxclose.jpg

    junctioncloseup.jpg

    OK, should this thing be here? If not, what should? (minicruiser)

    in Electrical

    Posted

    1 hour ago, jdemaris said:

    I am trying to avoid getting too complicated, but this can be a complicated subject.  So just to be clear - lets stick to just the "converter."   That is the device that takes 120 volts AC and turns it into 12-14 volts DC.  Converters in themselves are not all the same.  They can be put into two discrete categories.  

    The cheaper, older-tech converters like most of our RVs came with can NOT supply clean DC power without help from the "house" battery.   They use that battery as a sort of power-cleaner and buffer and also to take up slack when more power is needed then the converter can make.  E.g. the owner's manual for the converter in my 1978 Chinook clearly states that it cannot supply clean DC power unless hooked to a battery.

    There are newer, higher-tech converters that can be used as stand-alone power-supplies with no battery if wanted.  I have one in one of my rigs. It is an Iota DLS-45. These tend to be fully electronic and also silent (no buzzing like the old converters).

    Back to your main question.  As I said, a converter will attempt to make the DC system reach whatever voltage it is designed for.  Often 13-14 volts.  If it is only capable of making 15 amps and you are using 20 amps worth of appliances - then the "house" battery tacks up the short-fall and will eventually get discharged.  NO battery charging can happen then.  Once you stop using all the stuff and the converter is capable of 15 amps - and you are using - let's say 5 amps - then there are 10 amps left to charge the battery back up.   Note that is a very simple and general description.  Many converters have small added battery chargers and there are variations.   So even though a converter is rated 15 amps - it might only have the ability to charge a battery at 8 amps.  All depends on make and  model.

    Back to your Schumacher 1.5 amp battery maintainer.  That is an example of a modern fully electronic unit. If it was 30 amps instead of 1.5 amps - you'd be all set.

    Ok, jdemaris, I can't tell you how much of a relief it was to get that, I especially like this:

    "Back to your Schumacher 1.5 amp battery maintainer.  That is an example of a modern fully electronic unit. If it was 30 amps instead of 1.5 amps - you'd be all set."

    So, if I drop a 30 amp or higher modern converter charger EXACTLY in place of where that Schumacher 1.5 amp currently is it would work? (even though it would be feeding the 12v box first and not the battery first as others are commenting)...? 

    Hope to hear from you soon, thanks!!!!

     

     

     

     

     

    OK, should this thing be here? If not, what should? (minicruiser)

    in Electrical

    Posted

    12 minutes ago, Boondockit said:

    So, you are saying my wiring as shown in first pic would be quite wrong if I just dropped a converter charger in place of the 1.5a Schumacher...

    would you consider drawing a quick crude diagram on paper of what I need and take a photo of it and uploading it here? (utilizing my  existing components and adding to diagram whatever I need to buy)?

    i know it's asking a lot but I am completely lost now and the nearest rv place is several hours away...if not, no worries, I just can't picture the wiring of the solution you're recommending...

    best 

    Actually I just saw this, does this look right? If so my wiring system as it is now is really wrong

    image.jpg

    OK, should this thing be here? If not, what should? (minicruiser)

    in Electrical

    Posted

    38 minutes ago, WME said:

    Converter hooks to BATTERY , distribution box hooks to battery. No shore power the lights and stuff run off the battery, slowing draining the battery.

     With shore power when you turn on the lights the converter senses the drain and begins to slowly charge to match the drain, add more drain and the charger keeps adding more current until it reaches its max charge rate.

    So, you are saying my wiring as shown in first pic would be quite wrong if I just dropped a converter charger in place of the 1.5a Schumacher...

    would you consider drawing a quick crude diagram on paper of what I need and take a photo of it and uploading it here? (utilizing my  existing components and adding to diagram whatever I need to buy)?

    i know it's asking a lot but I am completely lost now and the nearest rv place is several hours away...if not, no worries, I just can't picture the wiring of the solution you're recommending...

    best 

    OK, should this thing be here? If not, what should? (minicruiser)

    in Electrical

    Posted · Edited by Boondockit

    "the converter.charger is always trying to get the battery up to 14 volts and then taper back. "

    Thanks for your time and effort, I really appreciate it , this is where my pea brain explodes; 

    How, if and when I am plugged in to shore power, does it taper back and variate JUST the battery charging levels AND keep the lights going constantly when there is only one source out of the converter charger into the 12v box? How does it "split" and divide it's functions that way with only one output into 12v box?

     

    i could easily understand if the converter charger just sent steady constant unvariating current to both house and battery but I can't understand how it can back off just the battery when it Is needed while keeping the flow going with coach lights etc

    OK, should this thing be here? If not, what should? (minicruiser)

    in Electrical

    Posted · Edited by Boondockit

    Thanks for your time, this is super helpful of you...

    One question I have which is really driving me bonkers is this;

    a converter charger makes sense, it plugs into my 110 receptacle (where the 1.5a charger is now), and then it sends the power throughout the 12v distribution box to my 12v house lights /fans etc AND likely sends a charge to my coach battery...(I notice that the better converter chargers with a smart charger will know when the battery is full and back off full charging and just "top it off" or trickle charge instead of cooking it with constant charge when I am plugged into shore power)

    however, since I am connecting only the + and - white wire ends  (that lead to 12v box) into the converter charger, HOW is it able to shut off (or trickle) current just for the battery while keeping power flowing to to the house lights etc? This rings impossible because of the fact that there is just one source OUT of the converter charger (the + and - end connectors of white wire going into the 12v distribution box)...

    Is my confusion clear? I could understand how it could just give a variable charge / trickle to the battery AND keep the house lights going if there were 2 sources out of the "smart" converter charger (one to 12v box one to battery) but a lot of them have just a positive and negative terminal out to 12v box (one source out)...

     

    OK, should this thing be here? If not, what should? (minicruiser)

    in Electrical

    Posted

    8 hours ago, jdemaris said:

    No.   RVs usually come with a 120 volt AC distribution box, a 12 volt DC distribution box, a 120 volt AC to 12 volt DC converter, and an optional battery charger.  Four different items.   Sometimes they are all put in one box and called a "power center."

    That battery maintainer you have in the photo is fine for maintaining one RV battery.  That is, keeping the battery charged when the camper is parked and not being used.   It cannot be used as a converter.

    You have not mentioned your converter and that is what is missing here.  Either your's was removed, or you haven't found it yet.  Note that not all converters come with battery chargers. It is an option.

    Ok, thanks, does it appear to your eye that the thick white cut cable in pic was what was originally leading to the now missing converter (or missing power center) ? The white cable coming from the battery charger into the 12v distribution box (e on diagram) is the only feed I see going into the 12v distribution box...

    OK, should this thing be here? If not, what should? (minicruiser)

    in Electrical

    Posted

    Hey, it's my 2nd post further showing my noob-ity:

    I wasn't getting ANY 12V power in coach when plugging in to shore power. When I looked fir problem I found a "battery charger" feeding 12V into my distribution box...

    Poked it and found NO juice coming from this battery charger into distribution box.

    See pics: A=shore power cord. B=outlet that the battery charger is plugged into (poke reveals that this outlet is throwing 110 into battery charger)...

    C= Wires that should be feeding 12V out of battery charger that lead to;

    D: White wire that feed directly from battery charger to distribution box

    E = where the white wire connects to 12V distribution box for coach

    I do notice that the battery charger pictured also should be charging the house battery, but it's not sending juice at all to either 12v box or battery, so I need to replace it and my hunch is that this is a makeshift power supply that is not best for the system, thoughts? Help?

    Best, Michael from Iowa

     

     

     

    whatthe.jpg

    batchar.jpg

    dist.JPG

    1983 RBR Mini Cruiser issue

    in Electrical

    Posted

    4 hours ago, jdemaris said:

    A relay cannot blow like an isolator can.  An isolator will blow just like a fuse when enough amps go through it.  Also there is no voltage loss with a relay.  All rectifier-type isolators have around .6 or .7  of a volt of loss.  That is a lot when you consider just that long run from the front to the rear already has loss.

    I would not be surprised if your isolator no longer works. Many I find on older RVs are blown.  Easy to check with a voltmeter or continuity checker.

    Thanks, can you recommend one or link one to me here in particular? (Relay that you like)...best...

    1983 RBR Mini Cruiser issue

    in Electrical

    Posted

    Oh gawd, yes you're all right, when I originally looked under couch/bed there was a white airtight looking box with flex hoses coming out of it, (it looked like a water pump or something like that) of course inside is the battery which I am testing now...thanks to all for taking the time to help and solve...

    What would be the benefit of swapping a relay for the isolator? (Jdemaris)

     

    1983 RBR Mini Cruiser issue

    in Electrical

    Posted

    Hi, this is my first post, I have an 83 Minicruiser and I'm not sure it has a back battery (I've looked everywhere)

    When I run the engine I get my 12v stuff in the coach going (lights, fans etc), when I turn off the engine I can use them for a bit (with engine off) but they eventually die down, since I can't find a back battery, is the coach stuff running off my engine battery? (with engine off) if so can I drain the engine battery by leaving a fan on? (In coach)

    I notice that when I go back to the coach a few days later (engine off) that I don't have any coach stuff working but engine battery turns right over (and the coach stuff comes on again)....only to be dead again until I fire the engine back up...

     

    i don't have have a wiring diagram (does anyone?) but given the issues, can anyone enlighten me? Thanks so much!  Michael in Iowa

     

     

     

×
×
  • Create New...