sherrie
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Posts posted by sherrie
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Bozo again. We are grasping at some pretty thin straws here, so heres another one.
The AC adds to much heat too the cooling system when going up a hill, this is a known fact.
SO REDUCE the AC heat load.
Take a cheap shower curtain and hang it from the cabover bed all the way to the floor sealing off the cab from the house. This will keep the AC from trying to cool the whole house. Instead it will have to cool just the cab which is what it was designed to do. This will reduce the amount of heat that the AC system dumps in front of the radiator. Use air reculate too.
We have a Curtain that blocks the cab from the rest of the camper. The AC works so well that we usually only need it on low. But I just did my up hill test drive without the air conditioning on and it still overheats it just takes longer to get to the red line. I would gladly drive up hill with out the AC if that would eliminate the problem. I have to wonder why us? I think I read that other people drive around in their Toyota Campers with the AC on and go up hill!
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The misting systems were common in the bus conversion community. Even with massive radiators and huge fans some of the Detroit Diesel's were really hard to keep cool. Certainly an option, but I would do it as a last resort.
Jim
Ha Ha! Living in Las Vegas I have a portable misting system, I tried to rig it on to the front of the Radiator, but it did not work long enough. I also remember the canvas radiator bag that my dad used to hang in front of our car when I was a little girl. I would do something like this in a minute, I just wonder if my engine getting hot is not a symptom of something other than the cooling system not handling the heat. I don't want to hurt my engine.
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Keep this in mind. Your RV was NOT designed by Toyota. Ergo overheating is something that cannot necessarily be blamed on Toyota. It is likely heavier than Toyota allows and also has the Toyota-intended air-flow changed by sticking an RV coach on it. I don't think Toyota has had anything to do with RV designs in the USA since the early 70s Chinooks. A hot engine happens when it makes more heat that is being removed. More heat is made to make more power, like done when climbing hills. Even more heat is made to "upset the apple-cart" when you turn the AC on. If this was an OEM Toyota truck - it would be tested to make sure it had the cooling system and air-flow needed to work in such extreme situations. In your case - with a Winnebago RV - it kind of falls on them but not if the RV is over its GVWR which it likely is.
There have been so many posts I lost track of some of the facts. Does your RV overheat when climbing a hill if the AC is off? That was the determinate factor on our Kia. Using AC was the "straw that broke the camel's back" and made it get too hot when the radiator was inadequate.
Just picked up the Winnie and the answer is yes it does overheat when going up a hill with the AC off, it just takes a little longer to get to the red line.
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Seems like the links to my posts on the YotaTech Forum don't work - try going to this forum link
and then search for Winnebago
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I am usually the last person to defend people in repair shops but in this case - I can see their point. That does not mean I think they are correct. When you bring a rig there - in theory - you pay for every minute they are even thinking about your repair. I don't think they want to take the time to figure out the square-inches of actual cooling area you have and if it is correct. I doubt they even now what it is supposed to be. Their easy way of insuring correct parts is just to order those approved by Toyota. Toyota makes almost none of these parts so all are, in a way, "aftermarket." I worked in many repair shops and if you came to my place with the problems as described thus far - I would not guarantee a fix. I'd talk more like a medical doctor and suggest various approaches with non-guaranteed outcomes. I am surprised they were willing to do the head-gasket change, knowing your problems and give some sort of disclaimer. Or did they?
They knew nothing! It was covered under the recall so they did the work. I did not think it was the HG but since it was a free fix I had it done as another issue that could be checked off. We now know it was not the HG as the same problem still exists. All though all this work has taken a good running truck into a GREAT running truck - oh yeah except for that pesky overheating problem.
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I am usually the last person to defend people in repair shops but in this case - I can see their point. That does not mean I think they are correct. When you bring a rig there - in theory - you pay for every minute they are even thinking about your repair. I don't think they want to take the time to figure out the square-inches of actual cooling area you have and if it is correct. I doubt they even now what it is supposed to be. Their easy way of insuring correct parts is just to order those approved by Toyota. Toyota makes almost none of these parts so all are, in a way, "aftermarket." I worked in many repair shops and if you came to my place with the problems as described thus far - I would not guarantee a fix. I'd talk more like a medical doctor and suggest various approaches with non-guaranteed outcomes. I am surprised they were willing to do the head-gasket change, knowing your problems and give some sort of disclaimer. Or did they?
I totally agree with your thoughts on this and the approach the dealership is suggesting. I think there approach is get it back to "stock" and then if the problem still exists then look at other issues. But my gut says going back to "stock" won't solve my problem. The fact that the truck stays cool in stop and go traffic with the air on- seems to indicate the fan is sufficient to cool the radiator. The fact that the truck cools so quickly when not going uphill, seems to indicate the radiator cooling capacity is adequate. Also runs cool at 60 mph on the freeway with air on. I like the idea of the exhaust system maybe being an issue. I have been told by one of the mechanics that he thinks there might be a exhaust leak. (i mentioned this is a past post). I think there is something going on with the muffler -exhaust pipe.
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Having too small a radiator is plausible. But - how did they determine your's IS too small? Ratings like 1, 2, or 3 tube are sometimes meaningless. Some one tube radiators have more cooling capacity then three-tube. It's all about how deep the tube area is and NOT how many tubes there are.
I don't get the electric fan thing. That is unless you totally removed the mechanical fan. But yes - proper fan operation is important when stopped a long red lights or on very slow-moving hill climbs. In normal highway conditions - you don't need any fan.
I think you are asking for more headaches going to the suggested forums. Yes a few people there really know there stuff and many more are clueless "know it alls." It can be tough trying to sift through it all and deciding what info is actually useful. You are likely to get a lot more bad info then good.
The dealership does not know that the radiator installed is too small, they only know that it is not OM. Same with the electric fan and shroud. They don't know that they are "the problem" they only know that they are not OM and therefore could be the problem.
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I think I will go get the Winnie from the dealership today. I will take a look at it and maybe do some of these easier fix's, like the fuel filter and the washing of the AC condenser. I will check the air flow around and through the radiator. I keep thinking there is something contributing to the overheating only uphill with the AC on. I would think this wold be the most extreme stress on this engine- it would be working the hardest under these conditions, and under these conditions the engine heats to a temperature that the existing cooling system is not capable of handling. I have to wonder why the excess engine temp? Why is it working so hard? Is this normal? Or is something not functioning correctly and it evident under this extreme condition.
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I like your no fix no pay approach WME, unlikely they would do that, but does not hurt to ask. It seems the problem started before the aftermarket parts were installed? If they do not want to warranty the repair I would want at least 2 second opinions before I went that route.
yotatech is a good forum for mechanical info, I always check there before starting repairs. Jim
yotatech link is coming back "no matches"
try this link http://www.yotatech.com/search.php?searchid=10951139
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I just posted to YotaTech Forum. You can see my post here -New link
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Thanks Sherrie, ran across something else.
This is all above my paygrade, this is a copy and paste from another forum. I cannot remember if you said you replaced fuel filter? MtDave2 seems to be fairly knowledgeable, so I did a quick Google search. Jim
I have a Tacoma truck that developed a lean condition and the fuel filter was the problem. The fuel pressure was good however the flow must have been restricted (it would go lean going up mountain passes) I simply replace the filter every year or two as routine maintenance it has 141k on it and it runs factory fresh.
Link http://www.batauto.com/threads/what-exactly-does-a-car-running-lean-mean.8295/
I add the link so people do not think I make this stuff up!
seems like a simple fix and should be part of normal maintenance. Especially since the problem appears to be restricted to UP HILL.
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Has anyone actually verified the temperature of the coolant other than looking at the gauge and saying it is running hot?
Verifying Engine Operating TemperatureTechnicians need to verify engine operating temperature whenever the customer complains about an overheating issue, an underheating issue such as inadequate heat from the heater, or poor fuel economy. Verifying the operating temperature involves using an infrared noncontact temperature gun to check whether the on-vehicle temperature indicators, such as the temperature gauge and coolant temperature sensor, are operating accurately. The temperature gun, as described earlier, measures the amount of heat energy (temperature) of an object. Just realize that some objects do not conduct heat as well as others; if you can point the temperature gun at a metal component, it will produce a more accurate reading. If pointed toward the engine’s thermostat housing (or next to it), with the engine fully warmed up, a close approximation of the engine’s operating temperature can be measured and compared to the specifications. Note that a vehicle with an electric fan will usually have two listed temperatures—one temperature at which the fan should turn on and another temperature at which it should turn off. Anywhere between those temperatures is the operating temperature in this situation. If the operating temperature is correct, verify that the vehicle’s temperature gauge is reading accurately. Also, use a scan tool and compare the reading from the coolant temperature sensor to the temperature gun reading to verify that the PCM is receiving the correct temperature signal.
To verify the engine operating temperature, follow the steps in skill Drill 46-2:
1If the vehicle is in for an overheating concern, verify that the coolant level is correct before starting the engine. If the coolant is low, check for the presence of a leak before measuring the operating temperature. Start the engine and allow it to reach full operational temperature, monitoring the temperature along the way in case it starts to overheat.2Using an infrared temperature gun, test the temperature of the engine near the location of the thermostat or coolant temperature sensor. Compare to specifications.3Using a scan tool, retrieve the engine coolant temperature sensor temperature reading.4Be aware that there will be some temperature difference because the temperature sensor is sitting in the coolant and the temperature gun is measuring the surface temperature near the sensor.5Compare the results from the temperature gun, the coolant temperature sensor, and the vehicle’s temperature gauge; this gives you a good idea of the engine’s operating temperature.Just thought I would tell you that the Toyota Dealership said they did a full coolant system check. Specifically they said that they used the infrared gun, checked the coolant level, coolant pressure and the computer systems and did not locate any problems. This is why they think it must be the aftermarket parts.
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going up hill does make more heat still as much as these rigs work to stay at highway speed you would think it would over heat then as well.. I am still wondering if your motor is running lean.
I don't think so I have to believe the Toyota dealership set the ignition timing correct after replacing the plugs and spark plug wires and valve seals and adjustment. I also have had the timing checked before the dealership did all this work and that mechanic said it was ok.
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Well it is 92% here today, and will be Mid to high 90% for the rest of the week. My concern is that sitting still or going at 60 MPH on the flat the truck does not overheat. Why - oh Why does it happen going up hill? It was raining and only around 80% on the last overheated test drive. So I find it hard to understand how the Radiator, Fan and shroud would only come into play going uphill.
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NEW UPDATE!, The service man said he just drove the Winnie and it is still Overheating going up a hill. He said he wants to put all Stock back on the Truck. He says the Radiator and the Fan Clutch and the Fan Shroud all are "after market" and this is the problem. He wants $1,650.00 parts and labor to put all stock parts back on the truck. He said that this engine actually has 3 radiators that are stock for this truck and the radiator that is on is not large enough, He says the Electric Fan is not strong enough and the shroud would need to be replaced to match the Fan Clutch to be installed. Opinions Please.
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After all Sherrie has been through and the AC condenser is plugged and causing the problem, I would get an attorney and sue every one of the mechanics that have worked on it! Jim
Unfortunately Jim I think that in my experience getting an attorney involved ( especially in Las Vegas) would only add one more person to the list of people I have paid without a satisfying result. On the other hand I do agree with jdemaris I have authorized all the work that has been done on the Winnie - In a manner that I think makes sense and has been done with the consul of many on this forum. It has been and is still somewhat frustrating - I know that we have followed a logical process in diagnosing the problem. From the least expensive, and most typical to the most expensive and not typical. At this time all I can hope for is to one day soon have this issue resolved and be able to use our Camper without mechanical problems. Then I can concentrate on the rehabilitation of the camper portion. I have put that on hold until I get the overheating resolved. Again thanks to all who have considered my problem and contributed to my process of repair.
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AgainGo to a DIY carwash and blast the AC condenser clean. Get the sprayer close to the grill and pressure wash all the crap out of the condenser.
You have replaced most of the suspected parts or eliminated most of the possibilities. One more odd ball thing to check The radiator must be sealed to the radiator support. If there is a gap at the edge the air will flow around the radiator and not through it. Use some household window AC sealing foam strips if you have a gap
Thanks for the suggestion! I am still waiting to get the Winnie back from the Toyota Dealership. I called today and they said they were still troubleshooting it. i will check it out when I get it back. This is an easy fix so I wil try it. Thanks again!
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Sherrie,
I am not sure if autozone will have a tool to scan your 90 Toyota chassis.
I would pay Toyota the diag fee and ask them to debug the issue. Ask them if they are able to scan for the engine temp pls.
Okay, I will call them now. Thanks
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Has anyone actually verified the temperature of the coolant other than looking at the gauge and saying it is running hot?
Verifying Engine Operating TemperatureTechnicians need to verify engine operating temperature whenever the customer complains about an overheating issue, an underheating issue such as inadequate heat from the heater, or poor fuel economy. Verifying the operating temperature involves using an infrared noncontact temperature gun to check whether the on-vehicle temperature indicators, such as the temperature gauge and coolant temperature sensor, are operating accurately. The temperature gun, as described earlier, measures the amount of heat energy (temperature) of an object. Just realize that some objects do not conduct heat as well as others; if you can point the temperature gun at a metal component, it will produce a more accurate reading. If pointed toward the engine’s thermostat housing (or next to it), with the engine fully warmed up, a close approximation of the engine’s operating temperature can be measured and compared to the specifications. Note that a vehicle with an electric fan will usually have two listed temperatures—one temperature at which the fan should turn on and another temperature at which it should turn off. Anywhere between those temperatures is the operating temperature in this situation. If the operating temperature is correct, verify that the vehicle’s temperature gauge is reading accurately. Also, use a scan tool and compare the reading from the coolant temperature sensor to the temperature gun reading to verify that the PCM is receiving the correct temperature signal.
To verify the engine operating temperature, follow the steps in skill Drill 46-2:
1If the vehicle is in for an overheating concern, verify that the coolant level is correct before starting the engine. If the coolant is low, check for the presence of a leak before measuring the operating temperature. Start the engine and allow it to reach full operational temperature, monitoring the temperature along the way in case it starts to overheat. I checked the coolant prior to returning it to the Toyota Dealership and the coolant was low - This was one of the reasons I decided to return it to the Toyota Dealership.2Using an infrared temperature gun, test the temperature of the engine near the location of the thermostat or coolant temperature sensor. Compare to specifications. I will purchase one of these guns at Harbor Freight if the vehicle still overheats when returned from the Toyota Dealership.3Using a scan tool, retrieve the engine coolant temperature sensor temperature reading. Okay, I think I have seen these in the Tools for Lend at Autozone (Scan tool)4Be aware that there will be some temperature difference because the temperature sensor is sitting in the coolant and the temperature gun is measuring the surface temperature near the sensor.5Compare the results from the temperature gun, the coolant temperature sensor, and the vehicle’s temperature gauge; this gives you a good idea of the engine’s operating temperature. Good Idea - I will proceed with this diagnostic procedure if it still overheats after being returned from the Toyota Dealership.I know that the last place I took the vehicle to - (when the thermostat was replaced to a Toyota thermostat), they spent about 15 minutes pointing the laser gun to all different areas of the cooling system. But this was as the vehicle was running at idle. It does not overheat at this situation. I asked them what they were checking and they said they were looking for cold spots that would indicate blockage. They said everything looked good. I do not think anyone has used a scan tool to retrieve the engine coolant temperature reading. Thank you so much for taking the time to consider my problem and come up with all of this.
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OK on fan. 2 more ideas.
1. install a manual override switch on the fan so you can turn it on for sure when going up hill.
2. Same idea but different, wire the fan relay to the AC compressor hot lead. Then when ever the AC is on so is the fan
There is a wire connected to the AC wiring and the fan is always on when the AC is on. This Fan came with this wiring connected to the AC wiring as part of the instructions. When I want to show a mechanic that the fan is blowing in the correct direction I turn the AC on - so the fan comes on.
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On the last couple of drive tests - It only overheated when going up a hill, with the Air Conditioning on. Driving around town, or on the highway - flat, no matter what the speed, Air On or not on, It does not run hot. It only overheats going up a hill with the Air Conditioning on. Temp does rise going up a hill with-out the air on, but just a little. I tried to get pictures when the heads were off - but no luck.
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More peanut gallery comments
Are you sure your electric fan is turning in the correct direction?
Yes, I have had it checked by 3 different mechanics. It is sucking air through the radiator. It works great - when it is on you can watch the temp gauge go down.
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So Sad
, took the Winnie out for a longer test drive and it overheated! Going back to the dealer this morning, Hopefully it's nothing to bad.
left the dealer at mileage 51660, overheat at mileage 51717. (57 miles) -
Sherrie, the images have been resized to 400x and the text of the receipt is hard to read.
Could you please load the raw images to imgur.com and post the links pls.
Thanks,
Here is a link to see the bill on imgur http://imgur.com/a/ccKwY
Again
, took the Winnie out for a longer test drive and it overheated! Going back to the dealer this morning, Hopefully it's nothing to bad.
1991 V6 3.0 3VZ-E Overheating Please Help!
in Engines - Transmissions - Drive Train - Suspension - Chassis - Steering - Exhaust - Tires - Etc.
Posted
Here is the Youtube video of my last test drive https://youtu.be/zJgICYoJlTQ
I guess my question is - After doing all this work- do I assume the engine is working properly and I need to retrofit it so that it does not overheat in the hot temperatures here in Las Vegas? It was around 85% F when I did this test drive. To me this is rather cool, but not to my Camper. I could get a bigger radiator, add more fans, add a mister system? or all three? Do I just do what ever is necessary to keep the temp down - regardless of why it is happening?