zero
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A decent sized AC fridge will spike at a 6 amp draw and then come down to 3-4 amps.
I mis-stated a few things so let me try to do better. Amps without voltage specs are meaningless. I have several AC dorm-type refrigerators I use. Some spike at 6 amps /120 VAC at start-up and run on 3.8 amps/120VAC and some others spike at 5 amps/120VAC and run at 2.7 amps/120VAC. When run through a typical 90-95% efficient inverter - that winds up drawing up to 80 amps for a second or two with 12-13 volts DC and then trimming down to as low as 36 amps at 12-13 volts DC. But -the AC fridge rarely comes on if well insulated. I tested one hooked though a 1500 watt inverter and a single 12 volt type 27 battery. The one Walmart sells as "deep cycle." It ran the AC fridge for 4 days before voltage got too low to run it anymore. That was in a 75 F degree environment and without added insulation. That battery is rated at 115 amp-hours. That means it is designed to supply one amp all the time for 115 hours. Since it lasted 96 hours running that AC refrigerator - it drew the equivalent of 1.2 amps per hour. Not very much. But if you have a small alternator that can only charge 30 amps at engine idle- you might notice a discharge if you come to a red light or stop sign and the refrigerator happens to come on. The last three-way fridge I pulled drew a steady 7 amps all the time when run on the DC mode. Much more then the AC fridge. When installed in an RV, I add 1" insulation board around the fridge. Make it come on even less. Note also that I'm not using the smallest dorm fridges. Both of mine measure 26.5" tall by 19" wide. All mine came from yard sales for $25 each and I've yet to one go bad. We do some off-roading since two of my RVs are 4WD.
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i have a dorm type, 4.3 amps at 120volts so would need about 500 watts at 12 volts, or about 45 amps at 12 volts. not that big of an inverter would work. i wouldn't think going down a paved road would not create problems for the frig, maybe dirt roads full of pot holes might be hard on it, not really sure. the biggest problem i see is that the coach battery would be drained fairly quickly without an upgraded altenator that could handle the amp draw. as i understand the stock altenators we have are around the 50 amp output which with running everything else wouldn't be enough to maintain the coach battery and run the frig, ie dead coach battery after a day on the road. if i were needing the frig on long trips, traveling everyday and wanted the frig to take care of itself i would save up for a three way. we use ours to go somewhere within a half day and stay, using the generator or shore power when we arrive so we just put in a couple of gallons of frozen water to keep things cool until we arrive. we do hope to go on a fairly long three days going and coming trip this next spring, we'll either get ice to add to the frig as needed or use a seperate ice box. we have had two frozen gallon containers keep it cool for two days and didn't totally thaw out.
A decent sized AC fridge will spike at a 6 amp draw and then come down to 3-4 amps. If well insulated it rarely comes on. A typical 50 amp alternator would have no issues suppling the power even at night when all the headlights are on. It's a non-issue. I have much more of a problem with a three-way fridge that drew 8 amps almost constantly when in DC electric mode. Very inefficient as compared to a cheap AC dorm-type fridge. The problem can really show up at night with headlights on and at a stop light with the engine idling. A 40-50 amp alternator typically puts out 25-30 amps at engine idle speed. A three-way drawing 8 amps only leaves around 20 amps for all else. My Dodge Class A motorhome when driven at night with the three-way fridge on would have the charge-light come on at every stop sign or red light. No problem when I switched to an AC fridge and a 1500 watt inverter.
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Can a dorm fridge run while the RV is in motion? I am not sure if that compressor is designed to be rock-n-roll...if you know what I mean. An beeffy inverter can run the dorm fridge but life span may be short
I've been doing it for years with NO problems. Any fridge that uses a compressor does fine with bouncing around and works much better when not level as compared to a three-way fridge. Note that two of my RVs are 4WD and we camp off road a lot and drive on very rough terrain.
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I have an 81 Huntsman with a Dometic RM 360 electric/LP fridge. I know it's around $400 for a new cooling unit and $700 plus for a new fridge. I dont really want to spend that that kind of money on fixing it. Has anyone replaced their stock fridge with a regular electric mini fridge? I figure a refrigerator that works on electric is better than no fridge at all. The dimensions of the stock one are 29 3/4 inches tall, 20 1/2 inches wide and 21 3/8 inches deep. I found an igloo 3.2 cubic foot mini fridge that I think would fit for $120. Or if you happen to know of a junk or for parts RV with something similar let me know. Thanks.
I've repaced the the three-way refridgerators in two of my RVs with cheap AC "dorm" type units. I love the change and would never go back to a three-way. Two RV batteries can run an AC fridge through an inverter for 4 days with no recharge. One battery can run it for 2 days with no recharge.
No more fussing around changing from DC input to propane (and getting it lit), etc. A cheap AC fridge with a little added insulation works extremely well. Mine is hooked to an AIMs 1500 watt modified-wave inverter. No to be clear - we don't use our RV for weeks at a time parked in one spot. If we did -I'd hook up a few solar panels. For now if I had to - I just start the engine every day or so and let it charge my RV batteries back up. We usually camp at night and hit the road the next day. Two RV batteries have been more then enough to run our fridge, heat, 32" TV and DVD player, fans, water pump, etc. Batteries have never gotten close to low.
If I ever have a failure when away - I can stop at any Walmart or Home Depot and buy a new replacement for less then $75.
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im going to buy these right after tnxgivings either one or two
if someone could be so kind as to direct link all the other equipment needed to connect these to a deep cycle on a toyhome id appreciate it.
a controller for 150 watts and wires. i dont really think this requires real solar wires actually so the cheapest ones that work would be best
http://www.amazon.co...howViewpoints=1
pencilled in this one
to the best of my knowledge a 10 amp controller can have up to 240 watts, so that would cover one of these panels but not two. so this one is 30 amp could easily handle 3 or more
Not all controllers are the same even though they are sold with the same ratings. You have to read the full spec sheets. Some 30 amp controllers can handle surges at twice the 30 amp rating some can barely handle a 10% overload. A solar panel will rarely put out what it is rated at. A 120 watt panel rated at 7 amps in bright sun will be lucky to put out 5 amps. The 7 amp rating is a "best possible case scenario." But in extreme cold weather in areas with bright snow cover - a 120 watt panel can spike up to 10 amps.
Solar charger wiring is nothing special. DC current is DC current. Does not matter if from a battery, alternator, or a solar panel. Generally speaking a panel up to 15 watts can be direct hooked to a battery with no controller. Anything bigger needs one. You do not have to size a panel wattage to your battery bank or battery. The controller takes care of that. All depends on how much power you want from solar. My entire house and farm runs from 5400 watts of solar panels and I live in a dark area of NY. My cabin in the Adirondacks with lights, 40" TV, DVD, electric water pump and electric tool useage does well enough with 1000 watts in solar panels.
To hook a solar panel to an RV battery - if bigger than 15 watts, you need a controller, wire, and a fuse or circuit breaker. Solar panels have built-in reverse-flow diodes and cannot drain a battery when the sun isn't shining (like they did years ago).
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nope a 200 watt inverter will not run a 150 watt laptop brick.
Some 200 watt units certainly will run a laptop from a power port and some will not. Not all inverters sold as "200 watt" are the same. That goes for inverters at any claimed wattage.
Also - since most newer inverters have "unified trip breakers" they can turn off, and/or chirp and may not indicate to the user WHY it's happening. It can be an AC overload but can also be a DC input low-voltage problem, a heat problem, a incompatibility problem, etc. I've got a 150 watt inverter that can run my laptop just fine.
Maybe what is needed is a thread that actually discusses specific makes and model numbers on inverters and what they can, or cannot do. I've got over 30 inverters and could add a good bit of test and use data. AIMs, Trace/Xantrex, Vector, Cobra, Black & Decker, Ramsond, Outback, Chicago Electric, Duracell, and more. I have them from 150 watts up to 10,000 watts in modified wave, so-called "true sinewave" and grid-power certfied 60 cycle sine-wave.
Worst I ever had was a 4000 watt Vector/Black&Decke. It could not even run a small AC refridgeratror I have that only draws 6 amps max AC. I replaced the 4000 watt inverter with a 1000 watt AIMs and it works flawlessly on the same fridge. Note that after the bad experience with the 4000 watt unit I did NOT claim that no 4000 watt inverter can run a small fridge. Just that particular one.
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Hmmm, don't know exactly what a stationary hub is. Are you sure you have a Toyota 1-ton axle assembly?
The late model Toyota manual is available online at:
http://personal.utul...buchanan/93fsm/
I downloaded the entire thing a few years back. I'm glad to see it's still available online.
Another one you might enjoy:
Check out the Technical Section.
Happy Wrenchin'!
I said stationary "stub", not "hub." The stationary stub is what the entire hub assembly rides on. The stub is stationary and the hub rotates along with the wheel. The end of the stub has a small seal at end diven into the ID of it. The end of the axle near the end-cap rides in that seal. All full-floating axles have stational stubs sticking out regardless of Toyota, Dana, Rockwell, etc. The one I have apart right now is from a 1986 dual wheel full-floating axle from a box-truck. VIN: RN75L-SDIEA3W 033L041G292A43D
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The axle shaft is solid.
There is no "stub".
This axle shaft is driven directly by the differential. See the spline ends? When rebuilding/repacking the hub, one must use caution when re-inserting the axle into the axle tube so as not to disrupt the seal.
The "Oil Seal" in the drawing is the seal that prevents diff oil from entering the hub.
The oil seal in the drawing that I reposted and annotated in blue is not the seal that stops gear oil from entering the hub. That seal rotates with the hub and seals on the OD of that stationary stub. If the hub had oil in it, it would prevent the oil from leaking out onto the ground. The seal that actually stops oil flow from the center-section and into the hub assembly is on the outside on the ID of the stub. It is not shown in the parts diagram I reposted. It is shown on the next page down # SA128 in plates RA0802, RA0712, etc.
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This is not entirely correct. The Full Floating Axle, commonly called the 1-ton axle used by our later model Toyota MH has an oil seal on the axle (to keep differential fluid from entering the wheel hub)
I see it in the parts diagram now. The seal that presses into the stationary stub. No seals in the truck hubs I just took apart. I don't know if someone intentionally left them out? No seal in either side and no oil leaked into brakes. In fact the hub assemblies weren't saturated with gear oil; just some presence of it.
What manual are the parts diagrams you posted from? I'd like to get one.
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This is not entirely correct. The Full Floating Axle, commonly called the 1-ton axle used by our later model Toyota MH has an oil seal on the axle .
Where is the seal that actually rides on the axle and not the stationary stub? I can't find it.
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This is not entirely correct. The Full Floating Axle, commonly called the 1-ton axle used by our later model Toyota MH has an oil seal on the axle (to keep differential fluid from entering the wheel hub) and the two wheel bearings are lubricated with grease. Differential lube can enter the hub if the shaft seal fails but this is not what Toyota intended for bearing lubrication. If the shaft seal continues to leak, fluid can eventually enter the brake drum and negatively affect braking.
I understand what you are saying but I've got one apart right now. Brakes are dry (i.e. no oil contamination). Bearings have original grease and also some residual gear oil from the center section. I only find one oil seal and that seal is on the inside the bearing-hub. It seals the hub to the stationary stub sticking out. I have found nothing that actually seals the OD of the splined axle so oil from the center-section is blocked from entering the hub assembly. The hub that holds the two bearing cones and cups has the seal on the inside (on the stub) and the axle-flange end gasket on the outside that seals the hub-assembly and keeps oil or grease from leaking out. Maybe there is something that's been modified or removed from this axle but like I said - I find nothing actually sealing the splined axle. Just the hub on the stub. Where is this 2nd seal in the diagram? This Toyota dually axle is setup very much like a Dana 60 or 70 in an American full size full-floater. The hub seal that does NOT seal the axle shaft OD is National # 226285 or SKF # 24635. 3.35" OD and 2.4" ID where it seals on the hub-stub.
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im curious what about charging the agm battery only with the alternator, does it have a problem with alternators?
not that id buy one im pretty set on costco batteries but for academic purposes or installing under the bench seat.
AGM or conventional flooded-lead-acid deep-cycle batteries do not charge "perfectly" with an auto alternator.. Auto alternators use voltage-control, whereas AGMs and deep-cycle do best with current-control. It is not a huge issue and an auto alternator works well enough while on the road and travelling. When home or parked where AC grid-power is available - the coach batteries should be hooked to a proper charger for AGMS and/or deep cycle batteries if you want the most life out of them. There are ways to work-around the problem but I don't regard the added expense as worth the bother. You can build or buy a "battery to battery" charger to the cranking batteries get charged one way, and the coach batteries another.
AGM battery charging: Bulk charge – 13.8-14.4 volts, Float charge – 13.2-13.5 volts Equalize - Charge @ 15.5 volts for 8 hours - BUT - many companies that make and/or sell AGMs say NEVER to equalize.. Gel batteries the same but NO equalization for any I've ever heard of.
Flooded lead-acid deep cycle battery – 14.8 volts bulk, 13.2 volts float. Equalize at 15.5 volts.
A typical auto alternator seeks to raise the any battery to 14.8 volts as fast as possible.
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In general you need twice the watts in an inverter than the laptops power supply.
Not "generally" true. A typical mod-wave inverter runs at 85-90% efficiency. A lap top has a steady draw unlike a device with an electric motor that can surge on start-up. A lap-top rated at 65 watts usually draws 65 watts max. A device with a motor rated 65 watts may need 200 or 300 watts at first start-up. So, a lap-top with a 65 watt rating hooked to an 85% efficient inverter needs an extra 15% in wattage. That comes to a 75 watt total demand. A typical automotive power-port or cigarette lighter is usually rated at 200 watts.
There are other factors though. With cheap inverters the quality of the AC "fake" sine wave is sometimes a big issue with certain devices including . . . AC to DC converters or battery chargers, GFIC outlets, and smoke/CO alarms. Since there is NO good way to know the quality of the AC power a cheap inverter makes by reading the published specs - finding out what works is often "trail and error."
Note also that most of the much more expensive "True Sine Wave" inverters also do not make true sine waves. They do work better with many problem appliances - but will also work worse on a few then with a cheap mod-wave.
This is why a consumer-level 2000 watt mod-wave inverter costs $120, and a consumer level "True/Pure Sine Wave" inverter costs $450, and 2000 watt inverter certified to make a true 60 cycle sine wave can cost $4000.
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A 210 watt laptop at 120 volt will draw less than 2 amps (current = power divided by voltage) or (210 watts/ 120 volts).
If a laptop was actually rated at 210 watts - it would draw around 20 amps at 12 volts when run through a small inverter. 20 amps is the "industry standard" limit on my 12 volt power outlets in cars and trucks.
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there is a craigslist ad up today for solar panels and accesories for a reasonable price.
I know that Portland Oregon has a buyers club group where they are bringing in solar panels by the truckload to make them affordable. Could be this is from that group purchasing but that is just a guess on my part. I have not talked to the seller about it as I am not ready to put solar in just yet.
That's not a bad price if they are nearby. Solar panels were $5-$6 per watt 4-5 years ago. Now they can be bought in small quantities for $1 - $1.20 per watt and in large quantities for 50 cents per watt. Shipping charges is often the killer. Many sellers refuse to use UPS anymore and will only truck ship.
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. Are 12volt cigarette port connections not powerful enough to run this ? what is the most cost effective route to power my laptop ? thanks!! so glad these forums exist!
Cigarette lighter type power outlets in automotive use are usually limited to 20 amps at 12-14 volts. An inverter can make a max output of around 200 watts when plugged into such an outlet.
The normal wattage demand for a laptop power-supply is 65 watts. Your inverter should power your laptop just fine when plugged into that power-port unless that inverter makes such a poor modified wave - your lap-top power--supply is not compatible. Cheap inverters do NOT make the same type of AC power you get in your house. They make a stepped modified-wave with low voltage peaks and dips that do not work great with everything -especially some small AC to DC converters.
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Is anybody running 2 12v batteries? It just seems to me that it would be a great idea. Your thoughts please.
I've got two deep-cycle 6 volt batteries in series for my RV "house" batteries (225 amp hour). Amounts to the same end-result of having two 12 volt batteries in parallel. Regardless of your choice of voltage, it pretty much comes down to battery weight. Two 70 lb. batteries give twice the run-time as one. Does't matter if it's two 6s in series or two 12s in parallel. A 6 volt battery is just three battery cells in a box, whereas a 12 volt battery is six battery cells in a box.
I've found that my two 6s will run my AC refrigerator for four days with no recharge. I can also run an inverter-type 1000 watt microwave at 80% max heat just off the batteries. If want to run it at full heat- I start the engine so the engine alternator can assist and the microwave works great at max setting.
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If you are going to get a relay type I would stay away from the cheaper copies of the Teckonsha, at the price of the above link I would be surprised if it was one. You can get heavier duty relays, but, as Maineah noted, for the wiring and alternator of a stock Toy not really necessary.
vanman
I'm not sure what you mean by "cheaper." Less in cost or less in quality? Tekonsha as the original electrical parts company does not even exist anymore. They were bought out 10 years ago. The relays the company (with the Tekonsha name) sells are the same quality as I sometimes buy for half the price. Places like Surplus-Sales buys over-runs from large companies and often it's top grade merchandise. The reputable relay sellers give full specs as to amp carrying ability, material the contactors are made of, and how many duty cycles they are designed to last. The sellers are rarely the companies that actually make the relays.
As to the guy's original question about his motorhome and no charging for his RV battery? All depends on what he has or doesn't have. RVs often get modified bv owners over time. I don't know what his rig had when new and have no idea what it has now. That being said - there are two usual ways to do it. Use a relay or use an isolation diode. Isolators are often low amp capacity. My Toyota Chinook came OEM with a 30 amps max to the aux battery rated isolator and it was removed a long, long time ago. I've also found that most isolators trim the charge peak voltage down a bit to the RV battery. Often 2/10ths to 1/2 of a volt less then what is coming out the alternator's reg- which is something that does not happen with relays. Automotive alternators designed to charge cranking batteries . . . when working perfectly . . .do not charge deep cycle batteries at an optimum level and many isolators make it even worse.
Back again to the original poster - without more info - it' possible he just has a wire unhooked or a fuse blown somewhere. Without more info - much is a guess.
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a super charger uses gas though definnitely its not a turbo charrger.
A minor point - but a turbocharger IS a type of supercharger. What is called today a "turbocharger" is an exhaust driven supercharger. Years back they were more commonly called "altitude compensators." Putting boost into an engine rarely makes it more fuel efficient. What is does though is allow a small engine to behave like a big engine when the power is needed. When not - and the boost and fuel delivery is down - it can behave like a small engine and get good fuel mileage. Adding boost raises the "effective compression ratio" and subsequently - some boosted engines run lower mechanical compression ratios that sometimes hurts performance when not under boost from any sort of turbo/belt/gear driven supercharger and/or intercooling. That being said, some new engines are getting the best of both worlds but also cost a small fortune.
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I prefer the relay kind by Tekonsha, the cheaper ones I would stay away from:
If anyone is a bargain hunter - those relays that Tekonsha sells can be bought for $12 apiece from several suplus outfits. 80 amp full-time rated and 150 amp surge.
Here's another place showing the many versions . .
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I prefer the relay kind by Tekonsha, the cheaper ones I would stay away from:
The relay that Tekonsha sells is rated at 80 amps continuous and draws less then 1 amp. It's bascially the same full-time low-draw relay that most places sell for dual-battery use IF a low charge rate is used.
That's the relay I call "cheap" in my referernce frame. The more pricey one at $50 is rated 200 amps and is water-proof. All depends on what kind of charging system is being used and how fast you want your RV batteries to charge. If you have a couple of HD deep-cycle batteries that have run appliances for an entire day or night before a recharge - they can call for a lot. In my rig - I use an AC refrigerator powered by an inverter and the RV batteries , I like this setup much better then the 3-way fridge it used to have. My batteries only will run the AC fridge for four days with no recharge.
Many modern alternators can charge at 80-100 amps at engine idle speed. You hook that to a 30 amp breaker that breaker will keep tripping and overheating until it gets ruined. My Toyota has a 140 amp alternator that can charge 90 amps at at engine idle speed and if I revv it up - it can send 140 amps to the back RV batteries. I've got #2 copper going all the way back with a 150 amp fuse on each end. Tis along with the HD 200 amp full-time rated relay.
Obviously if you only have a 50 amp max alternator that charges 25 amps at engine idle - using the heavy stuff is not necessary.
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I am NOT advocating that people DON'T upgrade. Just providing what FACTS I've come across so that people can make an informed decision. I just find that warnings to not even drive it around the block are kind of alarmist. Same with driving with tires that are 7 years plus 1 day old.
YOMV
I mostly agree. When it comes to tires I go by their appearance and not their DOT stamped age. My snow plow truck has tires on it that are 18 years old and still fine. To the converse - I've got tires on my Subaru that are only four years old and already showing signs of dry-rot cracks. Much depends on the rubber compound that is used. I would not knowingly drive any motor vehicle that would lose control from a tire failure since there is no 100% way to avoid it. The entire Ford Explorer Firestone tire thing was silly as I see it.
With Toyotas and the lighter rears with load-bearing wheel-axles? If I had one that I knew was grossly overloaded AND it had the "fake" duallys on it - I would NOT drive it anywhere. You can somewhat predict a failure from a wheel bearing going bad but you're not going to predict an axle snapping off from any observable "symptoms of distress." There are Toyota 18 foots around I would not be too worried about - especially if single -wheeled. But the fake duallies? Not for me. That is one experiment I don't want to make.
I suspect many failures in Toyota motorhomes are from neglected axles. I can't imagine owning any vehicle - car or truck -with non-lubed wheel bearings and not checking every year. Considering the wind-noise a motorhome makes - it's not always easy to hear a bearing going bad. Very easy to just jack it up in the air and feel it to make sure it' not lose and feels smooth when turning it. New wheel bearings only cost $15 each and are a cheap investment.
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Wish I could do that but the spring is already or was in negative arched for a while and one leaf is cracked in half.
Can't speak for your situation but . . . I've beefed up many trucks with a main leaf like you say your's is. Just added good HD leafs with the proper arch and all was fine. The OEM Toyota leaf is only 1/4" and not very substantail. I usually add 3/8" thick leafs to Toyotas. The perch bolt by the gas tank pulls out from the outside so removal of the tank is not necessary.
I'm trying to include photos but if it doesn't work I also included links to the same photos.
<a href="http://s104.beta.photobucket.com/user/jdemaris/library/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m162/jdemaris/100_0583.jpg"'>http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m162/jdemaris/100_0583.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"/></a>
Links:
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m162/jdemaris/100_0588.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m162/jdemaris/100_0583.jpg
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One thing about good old lead acid batteries like the T-105s is that you do need to learn about battery care to get long life out of them. Individual cells tend to discharge at slightly different rates and get "out of balance" with each other. About once a month or so, it really helps to do an equalizing charge. This is a controlled overcharge at a low rate, that brings the batteries up to a higher than normal voltage, around 19 or so, depending on the temperature. It causes fairly vigorous bubbling and stirs up the acid solution, which tends to stratify and helps to prevent sulfation of the plates. This is a bit of a pain to do, but really improves longevity. It will cause you to have to add water more often, distilled only please!
Steve
Trojan used to recommend "equalization" every month or so. No more. Now they say to test a battery once in awhile and only equalize if it needs it. The test is for uneven gravity in separate cells. I think this new "outlook" came about because so many people have ruined AGM batteries that do not respond well to any equalization effort. Some battery chargers are programed to equalize automatically and it wound up ruining some very expensive AGM battery banks.
Refrigerator broke, replacement options?
in Coach ApplianceTech Issues
Posted
Maybe. That being said I would not try to do it with just one "medium-cycle type 27 battery. I use twice that. I also don't know which heater blowers you are referring to. The truck blower can draw around 7 amps. The propane heater blower and ignitor can draw a total of 6-14 amps.
Note also that gets just as cold where I live as it does in northern Michigan. I know since live there at times. If you drive at night in the cold - and let's say your headlights are drawing 15 amps, and your heater blower 6 amps. That is a 21 amp demand. When the truck is cruising down the road with the 45 amp alternator it has 24 amp surplus, more or less. An AC fridge will draw on-average around 1.2 amps per hour if well insulated. So the alternator alone can supply the fridge and the battery size is not an issue until you park - or get stuck in a traffic jam for an hour or so.