fsprandy
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Posts posted by fsprandy
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Lisa,
Welcome to the world of Toyota motorhomes! I have a couple and in my immediate family we have 4 right now and have owned 6 or 7 so far. My brother has an 18' like yours but his is a 4wd. Be comforted that the 4wd sets much higher so he has to carry steps to climb in and out of it.
You'll hear lots of opinions on the rear axle. The faux duallies are certainly not the best setup ever put on a vehicle. That said, I have them on my Mirage and have seen many, many still going strong after all these years.
I follow this subject pretty closely and have yet to confirm an 18' Sunrader with a broken axle. One was reported a couple of years ago but when I got pictures of it what had actually happened is the lug bolts had sheared. Sheared lugs are probably a bigger problem with the faux duallies than broken axles and I suspect in some cases what is reported as a broken axle was in fact sheared lugs. The problem is there are only 5 lugs and the cantilever load can cause nut loosening and bolt fatigue. It is very important to check lug nut tightness frequently (every time you fill up wouldn't be a bad idea).
Also, the full floating Toyota axles are not bullet proof either. I've seen a full floater on a 21' Sunrader which failed with a broken axle housing. Effectively the same as having the axle on yours snap.
My brother uses a Tundra rear diff on his 18' Sunrader with single 15" tires and it is working very well. His is heavier (4wd extended cab) and he is almost always towing a fully loaded ~3,000lb trailer. I would be concerned with stability if you were to run singles on yours due to the narrow track. The Tundra axle is about the same width as the outer pair on duallies. He picked up the Tundra axle for $200 but has a fully equipped shop to work in and is able to fabricate whatever he needs. I don't know what it would cost to have someone else do the swap. I expect the differential gearing would need to be changed also.
I see in one of your posts you were going to keep the tires inflated to 65 psi. I would suggest a lower pressure, maybe 50 psi. The lower pressure will improve the ride and also reduce the fatigue loading on your axles and lug bolts. I've run car tires on my Mirage for years with only 35psi in them and have never seen signs of scuffing between the duals. Heavy duty tires on my 21' Sunrader also show no evidence of scuffing with 50 psi in them. Of course with faux duals the spacing could be anything so no guarantees.
My final thoughts on the axle are that if you know how to drive in snow and ice you probably wouldn't have much problem controlling you motorhome if a rear axle snapped. I've had this happen (not on a Toyota) and it was just a matter of keeping the front wheels pointed where I wanted to go. Much worse to have a front tire blow out and no rear axle will prevent that from happening.
Safety: Bear in mind that cars are much safer now than they were 30 years ago when your camper was made. Also, trucks are made to less stringent safety standards than cars and yours is only a mini-truck and a very heavily loaded one at that. If you get in an accident with your motorhome the occupants will have far less protection than they would in a modern car. The stopping distances and handling of your motorhome are also abysmal compared a modern vehicle. Finally, being 30 years old the reliability is not likely to be very good. All of this conspires to place more responsibility on your driving skills and maintenance habits to stay safe. Don't drive it fast, slow way down on corners, wet roads, bumpy roads, blind corners, high winds, etc.. Don't even think of keeping up with traffic on the interstate. Find a good mechanic you can trust and invest money in preventive maintenance. Insist he use only oem Toyota parts or Japanese manufactured equivalents. NO NAPA PARTS!
Towing: I often tow a small trailer with my 21' Sunrader. My trailer fully loaded is probably around 650lbs. If you were to tow my trailer you may still be lighter than many 21' Toyota motorhomes. I don't notice the trailer as far as speed, handling, or braking is concerned. The tongue weight of a small trailer is very little - maybe 100-150 lbs, so not much of a concern for the axle. The trailer tongue also has good "mass damping" so it wouldn't put much for damaging shock loads into the axle. It is extremely difficult to back up one of these motorhomes with a trailer attached - keep that in mind. The nice thing about towing my little storage trailer is I suddenly have all kinds of room to carry stuff. If you have a sound hitch setup I wouldn't worry about towing a small trailer. If you do tow you should drive even more safely!
Finally, you need to touch base with Linda on the yahoo minitruckcampers group. She has an 18' Sunrader or two and I'm sure you would find her to be very helpful.
Hope you can find something useful in my verbage.
fsprandy
...and, just in case there weren't enough questions already: how much additional sane load capacity (rear axle, and total capacity, including as relates to very light towing) might i gain with the 6-lug update? i know the engine itself has its own opinions on that but i am curious. as of now, since i have not gotten a base weight, i have no idea if i technically have room for 1000# of people and stuff or if i am already overweight with all tanks empty, though my guess would be much closer to the latter. if there are any hard numbers or other thoughts on this to be had, they would be really helpful! again, many thanks.
lisa
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The best filter for your Toy is the oem Toyota filter. In my opinion K&N's do not stop a sufficient percentage of finer particles which will cause accelerated engine wear. Cotton as a membrane filter media is too weak and the openings between fibers in a K&N are far too large anyway. Pleated as in a K&N it is too thin to be effective as an inertial impaction filter. K&N is all about marketing and separating fools from their money.
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No doubt the builder had a good engineer that insisted they use the tag. Maybe he retired or the bean counters saw the competition using just one axle and figured they were safe to overrule the dummy.
Tag axles are very common on heavy trucks. I noticed the propane delivery truck that was in my yard today had one. The driver even lifted if for the sharp turn backing into the driveway.
I've zero experience with the 'tag axle' design, unless you count looking at a few pictures. But in my mind, if they were such a brilliant solution to the rear axle problem(s), why didn't everyone adopt the design and why was production stopped after a year or two?
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If?
As I said failure was very similar to a broken axle on a non-floater. Both wheels came off together taking out the black water tank and some fiberglass on that side. It doesn't drop as far as one may think as the spring stack is tall and slung under the axle housing. It did grind the ends of the u-bolts pretty good! Owner was original and said it never made noise and had never been apart. Having examined it closely I'd say the housing simply failed. It really doesn't look very strong where it broke either. The small hubs allowed by the 14" wheels no doubt forced a design compromise limiting the strength of the full floating design.
If a full floating rear failed it either was assembled wrong or it had been making lots of noise for a long time before the bearings ground to a halt. The axle did not brake and cause the failure if a full floating axle breaks you coast to a stop and get towed home nothing more and the likely hood is real slim. If a semi floating axle breaks you will lose the rear breaks and it will do extensive damage to the MH when it comes off and if you are lucky it won't flip over or run in to some thing. Yes I do mean to scare you it is not made for that much weight will it last 100K maybe but what chamber is the bullet in?.
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You might be better off with the axle you have than a used up U-haul one cobbled together under your rig. Remember, only a small fraction of the overloaded axles with the cantilever duallies actually failed. I still see them in service and it's been 25 years since they stopped using them. Your axle setup looks to be a huge improvement over the earlier one so you should be fine.
I actually have an '86 Sunrader on which the full-floating axle failed catastrophically. It effectively did exactly what the old axle does with both the housing and axle snapping off and the dual wheel assembly leaving the rest of the vehicle. The event wasn't nearly as scary as it is often portrayed to be. The spring stack which is quite tall and close to the ground acted as a skid supporting the vehicle and no doubt adding significant braking effect. The driver said he heard and felt a thump and then it coasted to a stop. Much less scary than blowing a front tire...
Thanks so much for the replies! I have found a gentleman that has agreed to replace my rear with an ex-uhaul from late 90s for a grand. I really hate to do it because it is operating perfect! A mechanic said my unit it all checked out.
I have heard what I have is an upgrade heavy duty axle that has never failed...However, the horror stories with the fixed axle and wheels flying off leave me without any peace of mind. Its very frustrating not being able to get more solid information and having a cheaper solution.
I am confused because it looks so different than the typical 5 lug recall units. Does anyonme have any other ideas to see if this is not the recalled version? I have called toyota and the NHTSA with the vin and they have no records for recalls for specific VINS that go that far back...the dealer said my vin shows an heavy axle and said it would be fine but what does that really mean??
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Since you already have the new muffler this is a little late but I've found a 'straight through' muffler makes a little more power on these than other types. Of course make sure all the tuning is spot on especially the valves (be sure whoever does the valves knows to not over tighten the valve cover). Stay away from the high flow/low filtration air filters - not a good compromise. I've also found the Toyota plug wires to work better than some aftermarket ones - even when old.
Okay, my restore project is going well so far. Fixed and changed several components.
I have:
1) Fresh NGK plugs
2) New Battery
3) New Muffler
4) Fresh oil & filter
5) New Air filter
6) New PCV valve
So pretty much the easy change "maintenance things" have been changed out.
I guess I'm trying to find out if there is any simple way to get a little more power. Perhaps 10 HP or so? I'm looking for simple methods if possible.
This is on a 1987 Dolphin 22RE.
I wonder if a fresh coil pack would do me any good, or fresh spark plug wires would do me any good to give me better HP. (No problems or misses right now).
I'm not looking for amazing results necessarily, but just some more "kick" if possible.
Thanks!
(Bunk rot project almost completed! Just need to pretty it up! - YAY - that was a BIG job).
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Greg,
That thread is to a sheared stud failure, not an axle failure. Have any links to axle failures on one of the 4x4's?
fspRandy
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When we had our 4x4 Sunrader I eventually cut the table in half and fabricated some brackets to make it full size when needed. I bring this up because it was hard to put on your socks and shoes, no room to bend over at the table seating.
Here is a $5 question, does it have the full floating rear axle? I know of two 4x4 sunraders that have had the non-floating axle break. Ours weighed in at 6800 pounds fully loaded ( I got allot of junk) so it is a concern. The stresses applied to the rear axle flange when roaming around in the back country far exceed whats encountered on the highway. The axles break just behind the flange. Here is a link to one such break http://toyotamotorhome.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=696">http://toyotamotorhome.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=696 And here is a thread about the good and bad axle. http://toyotamotorho...php?showtopic=6 And the axle facts pdf http://www.toyotamot...es/Axle_FAQ.pdf . You may be aware of all this, but I post it for those who are not aware.
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The tag axle is there to increase the load capacity and means that the original axle is not overloaded. I think it shows a more conscientious builder to have gone to the trouble of the added axle. Downside's are more tires, larger wheelhouses so less interior space, less room underneath for tanks and such, and a higher cost to build. Positive side is more load capacity, less sway, and better ride. If the tag can be outfitted with airbags fun can be had with an on-board compressor. In town the bags can be aired down to effectively shorten the wheelbase and decrease the turning radius. Out on the open road the bags can be aired up to take more load off the drive axle as well as effectively lengthen the wheelbase further improving the ride. Tag's are common on larger rigs but rare on Toyota's. If I were in the market for another Toyhome I wouldn't hesitate to buy one.
Hello All,
I've been looking to buy a Toyota Motorhome for sometime now. I'm aware of the rear axle issues but I've come across one that has two axles in the rear as opposed to one axle with the dually tires. Does anyone know about the safety of this model? The owner told me he had it checked out and each axle is only supporting 700 lbs. of weight.
Any advice, info, help would be welcomed. Can't wait to join the Toyo Motorhome club!
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Not sure what constitutes 1st generation but the early 22r's (up to sometime in '82) had a dual row cam chain and were not susceptible to the infamous cam chain failures all of the later 22r/re's were. Replacing the factory smog carb with a Weber will do wonders for the power output.
The transmisson depends a-lot on what you prefer. There are functional and durability advantages to the standard trans as well as better performance and mileage but the auto's work OK. Biggest issue with the auto is it is more complex than the standard, has much more that can go wrong, and with age is more likely to have problems, and will probably be more costly to repair when it does. Of course if you don't like driving a standard you're not likely to be happy with one.
They all work quite well but really nice toyhomes are getting harder to find. If I was looking and came across a really nice one it wouldn't matter to me what drivetrain it had. As a matter of fact mine is an '86 which has an automatic (I hate automatics), fuel injection (I like Weber's), and a weak timing chain!
Spungo mentioned in a recent post "a first generation 22RE"...we are in the process of LOOKING for our first Toyhome...and are working hard to do our homework correctly....what years are a first generation 22RE and would you recommend automatic or standard transmission?
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Derek,
FWIW the owners manual that came with my '86 says to repack the wheel bearings every 40,000 miles or 4 years, whichever comes first. They do not specify which wheel bearings.
fspr
Did some more digging and came up with the 93 FSM. The Service schedule specifically (and ONLY) mentions repacking the front wheel bearings.
http://personal.utul...e/1maintena.pdf
http://personal.utul...ance/2maint.pdf
So it seems to me that if the rear bearings not being repacked lead to premature failure, there would have been a TSB issued. I've never heard of one.
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I think the 4 cylinders are great! I've driven the same model 4 cylinders in Toyota cars and trucks since at least 1980. I have a 22r and a 22re now - both in Toyota motorhomes. The 3.0 V6 is one of Toyota's poorest engines (I have one of these too) and is a maintenance nightmare (requires too much preventive maintenance and is hard to work on). The very quantity of Toyota 4 cylinder motorhomes still in service after all these years is testament to their durability.
All that said are you sure you can't find a pop-up light enough to tow? That would be an inexpensive and simple way to get in some camping time without having to sleep on the ground. If not then how about a bigger tent and sleeping cots? Getting up off the ground goes a long way to staying dry and might be an easier transition to camping than sleeping on the ground.
If you do go with a Toyota motorhome understand that it's an old vehicle and expect that there will be regular repairs required.
Believe me, if I had my way, I would take a tent anytime! That's how we did it when I was a kid. But his Dad hates tents (everytime we did camp in a tent, it rained!) and, believe it or not, my 10 year old BOY absolutely hates bugs and he's afraid something will crawl over him when he's sleeping.
I'd even take a pop-up, but we have no truck & we have 2 dogs (1 a husky) we'd like to take with us on occassion. So, to comprimise, I thought an RV would be the way to go. I think the Toys out there are awesome &, I hate to use this word, but; cute!
What do you guys think of the 4 cylinders? If I hear all of you say your not too keen on 4 cylinders, I guess I'm going to have to be satisfied with an american winnebago or some other american made motored RV. And hope someday my finances will allow me to trade in my not so great american made motor for a redone Toy.
Derek up North, wanna fix this one for me? I'm in Pennsylvania and would be more than happy to bring you a new project. I'll even throw in a case of beer.... ;
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That's what you get for putting a Weber on it!
If your 22r is the dual cam chain it should have no problems running at sustained high rpm.
New to this board
I have a 1982 huntsman 18 foot toyota motor home.. with a 4 speed manual and 22r engine.
I also have a 1982 pickup with a 22r and a 5 speed trans..
Do you think it would be worth the trouble to switch the trans. before I sell the pick up?
I have a weber on the motor home and it seems to be a little under geared on the flats and going down hill.
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I think for a small motorhome the break action is better than the pump because it's shorter. The break actions are also simpler which should be more reliable plus with the doubles if one trigger malfunctions there is a backup! Easier to load and unload too.
Found one http://www.stoegerin..._coach_guns.phpHere is a pic of one. I think it is a build it yourself kit.
Only finding single and double barrel models, a pump would be sweet!
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Marcus,
That looks like the pre-full-floating axle on a very nice Sunrader. Some of those axles broke which resulted in the NHTSA recall.
Interestingly enough my '86 Sunrader came with the full-floating axle and it broke!
How many miles on your Sunrader?
fsprandy
I have this 85' (or 86') Toyota Sunrader. Just bought it, and am super excited about it, it's my first RV. I am now figuring out that I may or may not have this risky axle I am hearing about on the forum. Can someone look at this picture and tell me which I have, and what the next steps are for a safe ride?
Thanks!!!
Marcus
P.S. The Axle FAQ is very helpful!! Thanks!
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The rear bearings in the Toyota full floater are not lubed by the differential oil. They must be repacked with grease periodically.
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If that's what it calls for that's what you should use. If the torque is too low the lugs will be subjected to fatigue load cycles and could snap.
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I'm thinking of picking up a 12-gage coach gun for travel in states that infringe on my handgun rights. The coach guns are real handy in confined spaces, easy to operate, affordable, and versatile given the options available with 12 gage ammo.
That reminds me of when I took two ultra liberal peacenik friends with me prospecting in central Oregon. They asked if I would take my 460 S&W with me. LOL
The NRA has a list of state laws regarding carrying firearms when traveling in an RV.
The bear spray is actually a good idea. I was camping in the southern Oregon wilderness and bears would attack the host cabin. There's a lot more cougars out there now also. None of them will come around if there are Sasquatches in the area. Don't mind the city mice. They don't know what it's like in real wilderness. It's not KOA!
One other item to consider is one of the aerosol can boat horns. They are painfully loud.
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I see one just went for $600 on Ebay. It was out of Indiana and looked like NOS. How many did they sell at the auction?
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Join the Yahoo group and put a post up there that you have them available. It's a very active group and a good place to get the word out that you have some available. Here's a link: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-campers/
I heard some motorhome manufacturers went under recently. Did they come from one of those?
Thanks so much for the info! The attachment picture is definetely what I have. I took a chance at an auction to buy these rear ends. I knew that Toyota rears were very well built and commonly used in aftermarket projects such as rock crawlers and mud racers. That is pimarily why I bought them. After I did some research and found out about the recall, I though that they may just be best used in their intended application.
Is there a better place for me to place an ad for these diffs on this website? The classified section seemed to be geared mostly toward complete Motor Homes.
Thanks Again! Brian Erne
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They do fit but depending on the year varying amounts of fabrication may be required. There was a good demand for these a few years ago but it seems to have been falling off. I'm aware of another new in the crate one that has been for sale for awhile now. On another list someone had a low mileage one they were trying to sell for over a year - I haven't seen them advertise it lately so maybe it's gone.
I expect most of the surviving older rigs have gotten an axle swap by now. The ones that haven't may not be worth the hassle at this point. The floaters generally are very durable so most people that need one just pick them up in a salvage yard. The one I bought a year ago came on a '91 dually pickup that was complete with a dead v6. The person I bought it from got it for the electronics and the dash. It only cost me $150 for what was left. I went through the axle completely but it was like new inside. This is a good way to do an upgrade as I was also able to use the front hubs and have 6 lug wheels all the way around. It even came with a 6 lug spare. I've seen these axles with apparently zero maintenance at almost 500,000 miles and still going. I did see a catastrophically broken one on a motorhome but as far as I know it's the only one.
I've also heard some people put them on rock crawlers so there may be some demand there. Unfortunately, they need quite a bit of modification to work on a rockcrawler and there are lots of other options out there for the crawlers. Probably more for someone that wants to try and stick with Toyota parts as much as possible.
If I were selling them I'd keep them sealed in the original crating and make sure none of the parts in the kit are lost. Attached is a picture of the kit Toyota was providing for free during the recall campaign.
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My brother used larger single wheels and a wider Tundra axle on his 4x4. You might want to consider this approach. The 15" wheels are a big plus with the 4wd. I expect it wouldn't be too hard to switch the front to 15".
Also, the Toyota full floater is hardly bulletproof under a motorhome - I have one that snapped...
Thanks for responding, I look forward to getting more info on this swap.
As far as the things mentioned... Not sure why the 6 to 5 lug adapters. I can only assume that it has to do with having all 6 wheels match or perhaps there weren't any 6 lug duals available at the time of assembly. I am running duals on the rear.
I have seen the Full Floater Conversion kits, I like them as most of them come with discs for the rear which I would like to have. And the fact that they are bolt on is quite nice as well. My only concern is that I have been told they are not as strong as a standard Full Floating Axle(but I have been un-able to confirm this)
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The K&N filter will let more dirt in your engine than the oem filter does. Your engine will wear faster and eventually become less powerful and efficient as a result. Better to install a nice new oem filter.
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Flat front: Change on side of road using 5 lug spare. Drive to tire shop and have flat repaired/replace if necessary.
Flat rear: Remove flat from camper. Limp to tire shop on 5 wheels. Have flat repaired/replace if necessary. Reinstall.
Alternatives:
1 - get a set of 6 lug adaptors for the front
2 - swap out the 5 lug front hubs for the newer 6 lug front hubs
FWIW many heavy trucks also have mismatched front and rear wheels, don't carry any spare, and instead plan to call for roadside assistance in the case of a flat. With current communications technology and the widespread availability of roadside service this may not be a bad option. Plus, you save carrying the weight of a spare.
Many of the older (now recalled) aftermarket rear duals on Toyota motorhomes had the same problem in that the front and rear wheels weren't interchangeable.
You'll also be told that you must run matched tires on the rear duals. While I'm sure this is true and the world will come to an end if you don't - you certainly wouldn't be the first to do so.
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Something isn't right - it's using too much fuel and is lacking power. I'd do a thorough tune-up including a valve adjustment.
I just bought a 1990 3.0 V6 Odyessy 21 1/2 foot (or 22', depends who you talk to) and drove it from Tucson to Pittsburgh. I only got about 10 miles to the gallon, cruising at 65 mph. I did most of my driving with the O/D turned off because the RV wouldn't maintain 65 with it on, even on the few flat stretches. (Too much wind in west Texas) Several mountains I cleared at only 50 mph. Is this normal? The RV has only 45,000 miles and seems to run well at low speeds.
Does Sunrader absolutely need axle update?
in Engines - Transmissions - Drive Train - Suspension - Chassis - Steering - Exhaust - Tires - Etc.
Posted
Thanks for the picture of the broken axle on the 18' Sunrader. Note that even though it happened in heavy traffic on an interstate no one was hurt and there was minimal damage to the motorhome. This is consistent with my own experiences with axle failure - not as big an event as some would expect. I was actually passed by the wheels when it happened to me (again, not a Toyota motorhome).
I see you misunderstood what I said about full floaters failing. I didn't say the full floaters were no better - just that they can and do fail too. The problem is the 14" wheels don't allow enough room so the spindle is, well, spindly. The full floater that failed was on a 21' Sunrader with moderate miles and was not overloaded. It won't surprise me if someone reports another full floater failure - hard to imagine I've come across the only one. That said there's no question the faux dually setup is more prone to failure though it is obviously extremely rare on the 18' Sunraders and unheard of on the 17' Mirage units.
I guess what I was trying to say is that if I was the person that just bought the new Sunrader I would use it locally for a little while before investing too much more into it. That way they can be sure they're happy with it and it really does meet their needs. It didn't sound like they had a-lot of cash to burn and these rigs are not for everybody.
Another thing I've seen is people buying a totally used up full floater for big dollars and thinking they have solved their issues. These wear out just like any other differential and have an added problem of packed bearings which have often been neglected. It's important to get a full floater with as low miles as possible and to have it properly inspected and serviced before the swap. Maybe even better to investigate some other alternatives.