metaf5 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Hi, I'm thinking of buying an '85 Toyota Sunland Express. I've already found some good information on these forums about what to look for when I go to see it, but now I'm wondering how much time and money I should be budgeting for repairs if I end up full-timing with this. I've certainly heard the word "reliable" thrown around a good bit, but obviously after 32 years and ~60k miles there are going to be issues mechanically and in the coach. Could anyone who's full-timed something from the 80's chime in about how much of a hassle I'd be in for? This would be my first RV, so I don't really have much to go on. I am planning on looking for really good towing insurance though! Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunkaman Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 hello and welcome, a very close friend bought an 85 granville with 30k. it was in really good shape. unfortunately because the po was elderly the rig had sat a very long time. my friend had to replace many front suspension parts, brakes,shocks, as well as belts, hoses, battery, etc. also due to the age, all tires were replaced. i am not trying to discourage you at all. but how the rig was maintained and driven or not driven by po will tell you alot. on the bright side, parts are generally easy to find and reasonably priced. also this site will be a gold mine of information and help. the people here really want to help and have a vast supply of "been there, done that". also, other than blatant safety issues, you may not have to repair or replace things all at once. good luck. joe from dover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Whether or not you'll be the one doing the repairs (vs paying someone else) will greatly effect what the cost will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metaf5 Posted January 18, 2017 Author Share Posted January 18, 2017 Thanks guys, I'm hoping to find this one hasn't been sitting idle too long. If it looks like a pain to make roadworthy from the get-go I guess I'll probably just move to the west coast and start looking again since that seems to be where all of these homes end up, haha. I have some basic mechanical ability and could do brakes/tires/anything that's just a few bolts, but things that'd require special tools or technique I'd probably have to pay someone else to do. Are there any parts that are *not* easy to find that I should examine extra-closely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 24 minutes ago, metaf5 said: Are there any parts that are *not* easy to find that I should examine extra-closely? Installing a 6-lug FF axle if not already done to the '85 Sunland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunkaman Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 another area of concern with later models ( v6 engine ) is an issue regarding the head gaskets. if you look at buying a rig with the v6, try to determine if the head gaskets were replaced. as i have learned on this forum, head gasket replacement can be a very expensive repair. joe from dover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markwilliam1 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 As Joe stated there could be multiple problems so "Be Ready!" Most important is what Derek said about the 6 lug Full Floating rear axle. Make SURE it has that axle Period! My rig is the same year as yours so I also have a 5 lug front but the rear was Upgraded. So now you need 2 spares as the spare that comes with your rig will fit the front but Not the rear. The big dually 6 lug rear wheels require a different rim than the front. They are still available but hard to find. Linda helped me find one two years ago so I now have a spare for the front and one for the rear! I had to replace almost Everything that was rubber! Even though Grannie sat in a pole barn for years out of the sun everything was dry rotted. I replaced the entire front end. All new tires, shocks, brakes, plugs, wires, distributor cap & rotor, belts, hoses, flushed everything and new fluids, had my rear springs re-ached and added 2 more heavy duty leaves to each side (which raised my rig around 4 more inches) and much more. I guess I spent and an additional $3000 in repairs and upkeep. Remember this was a mint condition (so I thought) rig with 36K miles. Let's not even talk about repairing leaks and such. Luckily Grannie has never leaked. Not trying to scare ya Man but expect to put more $$ into it After you purchase. On a positive note I increased the value of my rig significantly and it seems these Toy Homes, if kept up properly, don't depreciate much. If in Great shape it seems they appreciate in value as they are highly collectible!! Just my 2 cents. Good Luck! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markwilliam1 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 I also wanted to add that my cab AC wasn't working. I paid a shop over $100 to repair it only to be told it is not repairable. Bummer waisted $$! If it has leaked Freon it might not be fixable as from what I understand the AC cab units weren't made by Toyota. So for me I have Windows that roll down and those sweet little corner vents that open....How Retro LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metaf5 Posted January 18, 2017 Author Share Posted January 18, 2017 50 minutes ago, markwilliam1 said: Everything that was rubber! Even though Grannie sat in a pole barn for years out of the sun everything was dry rotted. I replaced the entire front end. All new tires, shocks, brakes, plugs, wires, distributor cap & rotor, belts, hoses, flushed everything and new fluids, had my rear springs re-ached and added 2 more heavy duty leaves to each side (which raised my rig around 4 more inches) and much more. Thanks for the heads up, this one already has the 6-lug rear axle but I hadn't considered needing two spares. Do you know how long yours sat in the barn for? Is it relatively easy to do belts/hoses yourself on the 4cyl? The one I'm looking at seems to be in good condition, and the seller claims it "continues to be used at least 5 times a year". I'm hoping that means it's been maintained a little bit. Unfortunately the RV is in MD (no safety inspection), but I'm in PA (inspection required), so I'd have to buy it uninspected and then just hope it passes in PA. Also, since I'm here, does anyone have input on a fair price? Like what's the maximum you'd consider paying in the best case scenario (i.e. the appliances work, it runs and drives, doesn't have water damage, and appears to not be rusted-out underneath)? This one does also have a pretty new-looking redone interior. Thanks for all your help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markwilliam1 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 I believe it sat for around 5 years but was started frequently....not driven! How much does the seller want for it? Perfect time to buy as prices rise significantly in the Spring! Have you seen it yet? Don't rely on pictures as they are easily doctored. Take a friend who knows RVs and what to look for Especially Leaks! Make SURE the seller has the fridge running and it is Cold when you check it. Usually takes @ least 12 hours to get cold. It's the most expensive appliance to replace (around $1000) And if you decide to buy it make sure you have Rv travel insurance. I've used Good Sam's with excellent results. FYI, while driving Grannie home I had my best bud Joe with me following in my car. Thank God! While pulling out of the gas station my pitman arm come off requiring a Long tow. I probably only drove her 10 miles before that happened. Good Sams paid the tow bill and I only had the coverage 2 days! So lots of things can happen. Even on a Pristine rig like mine with 36K miles! More 2 cents! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markwilliam1 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 PS the 22RE 4 banger is so easy to work on. Tons of room in the engine compartment. But Not the 6 cylinder. No room to work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metaf5 Posted January 18, 2017 Author Share Posted January 18, 2017 The seller wants $10k. Tires are from Dec 2010, and I'm not sure if he actually has any spares. Unfortunately I don't have any friends who know anything about RVs, but I've been working on an inspection checklist. I know just enough that I can probably avoid buying a *total* crapbox, but I'm still worried about some catastrophic failure happening and making it basically worthless within a few months. And smaller things like cracking water/gas hoses buried in impossible areas, rusting tanks, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markwilliam1 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 That's Big Bucks in my lowly opinion Man!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metaf5 Posted January 18, 2017 Author Share Posted January 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, markwilliam1 said: That's Big Bucks in my lowly opinion Man!! I'm inclined to agree...but I'm committed to going to at least *see* it so I can decide if I want to pursue Toys in general (though I wasn't really joking about having to move to the West cost to find them!). This will be the first one I get to see in person. What would you consider a fair offer if everything appears to be working? I suppose I can just post the link, if that's allowed: http://baltimore.craigslist.org/rvs/5920773568.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86rader Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Wayyy too much money for that rig. It does appear to be in nice shape, but not that nice. I just bought an 87 Sunrader with 37K that looks like new on the inside, and very nice out for 5500. I did need a new fuel tank, pump, filter installed to get it running (another 650) and it needs new tires, another 500 approx., but still under 7 grand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86rader Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Is it FI or carb? 85 can be either, I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markwilliam1 Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 I believe all 85's are EFI??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metaf5 Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, 86rader said: Is it FI or carb? 85 can be either, I believe. Not sure yet. Which would be better, and how would I check? Will the block just say "22r" for carb'd and "22re" for EFI? Thanks for the advice, I'll make a bit of a show of thoroughly inspecting the thing and see how far I can talk him down. At least it'll be educational! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markwilliam1 Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 I also agree with 86rader! You can get all worked up over these rigs but take your time and Don't jump too quickly. Just my humble opinion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markwilliam1 Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Yes 22RE for fuel injection. I personally would avoid a carb. More power with EFI and after you drive it you'll realize any increase in power will be Greatly Appreciated LOL!! These rigs are very slow with No power! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) Metaf5: Looks as if the front wheel is the same as the rear wheel. Probably only need 1 spare instead of two different sizes. Also the SLE has aluminum framework instead of the wooden stick built which is a plus. Check for watermarks and soft spots on the ceiling especially inside the cabinets, and around & under windows. Noticed it had a trailer hitch, wouldn't try to pull anything, use it for a bike rack or small luggage carrier. Is that a chair rack on the ladder? That floor plan is different from mine. That one has a front side door where mine is at the rear side. You can check my posts and pictures if you like . Best wishes on whatever you decide on buying. Him asking 10K I think is really TOO HIGH of a price. But someone may come along and give that much and not think anything about it. Homer Edited January 19, 2017 by Homer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunkaman Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 that is a very nice looking rig, but in my opinion NOT 10k nice. i do not know what your purchase budget is, but as all have said previously, allow for spending some money for after purchase. you never know what you may find once she is "yours". in regards to pa. inspection: you may want to contact pa. dmv and ask what is required. spring is coming, and your choices may increase in a month or two. i know finding one close to home is preferable. i was very fortunate to find mine about 30 miles from where i live. hang in there, these are really cool rigs, best wishes on your search. joe from dover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Something strange with this one. IF it's an '85, someone has installed 6-lug axle/suspension front and rear. Not impossible, but more likely he's got the year wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunkaman Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 derek up north - glad you commented on that, i noticed that as well but felt my knowledge level is not sufficient enough to point it out . could the front have been converted as well ?? just curious. joe from dover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Yes, the front can be converted, but it seems not many seem to do the conversion. Simplest 1st check would be to check the VIN to determine the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86rader Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Still could be an 85. Many have either swapped out the front end or installed the adapters. Having an Aluminum frame is certainly an advantage, as it means when weather gets in, it will resist structural degradation better, however, it does not address the underlying problem that weather will find its way in and cause damage. Going with a Sunrader or maybe Nova Star, addresses this by having structures that are very resistant to weather getting in, in the first place. Just gotta keep an eye on roof vents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerRob Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) 86 Sunland Express full timer here. Expect to replace everything made of plastic, especially anything on the roof. I had a lot of rotted rubber hoses - vacuum lines, transmission cooler lines, radiator hoses, etc. My master brake cylinder was bad, as well as my coach battery and converter relay. I have been upgrading/replacing/repairing stuff on this thing constantly, including a new timing chain at 170K (this is a ticking time bomb in 22R engines) and you can also expect idler pulleys, harmonic balancers, belts and other spinning things to be at or close to replacement time. Your shocks and springs will probably be shot, too. I am getting ready to replace all my exhaust components from the engine back because of rusted out studs and a giant exhaust pipe leak - as mentioned by others, pretty much what you can expect on a 30-year-old truck. I replaced all the running lights, interior lights, tail lamps and turn signals with LEDs. I just finished a bunch of work on it yesterday - tough to find time as I full-time and travel out of state a lot for work - and my brand new Bilstein shocks and airbag kit just arrived. I'm putting 6 new tires on it as well - my rig came with great tires but if you full time expect to get 2 to 3 good years out of a set (YMMV). Being my first RV, I went through a steep learning curve about backing up and parking and running into stuff and ended up breaking a lot of things that were good when I got it (i.e. awning, black water tank, side mirrors, etc.). Truth be told, I'd have been completely lost if it hadn't have been for this forum and the helpful folks on it. But I wouldn't change it for a thing. It's a sturdy rig and drives like a dream, and most of all, it's my little home! That is a great looking rig in the ad. I love the big back window and it looks clean and well kept but $9900 is far too high for this kind of camper. You can score a 89-92 era 6 cylinder model for that easily. I paid $3400 cash for mine with good tires and pretty much everything working. Good luck with whatever you choose to do - I've seen other Sunland Expresses come up for sale so keep looking. Edited January 19, 2017 by RiggerRob Mispelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markwilliam1 Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Well Said RiggerRob! It's amazing what age can do! I think that price of 10 Grand is Way too high. If he has to do many necessary improvements due to age that rig could be over 13 Grand easily and Counting! My buddy Joe got his pristine 90 something Winnie with All the options (even an outdoor shower hookup!) for a little more than 1/2 that price! I say keep looking Man but what do I know :-):-)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerRob Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) Just wanted to add a couple things. I do all my own work - including mechanical - so take into consideration how much you are willing to pay someone to do the work if you are not 'handy-inclined'. Also, check out the chimney in your fridge and hot water heater. I had birds nests in my fridge chimney compartment and the metal chimney is pretty corroded. Speaking of that watch out for wasp nests when you are replacing plastic roof covers (learned from experience)! Fortunately I found a great RV repair guy who has salvage parts for cheap - he had a like-new A/C shroud for my Coleman Mach II for only $20.00! If you can find a guy like this make him your buddy. A lot of the light covers are very hard to find and locksets for the rear door are almost impossible to replace new. I mentioned that I replaced my interior lights with LEDs. If I had to do it over - And I think I will - I would just replace the whole fixture - they're only about 15 bucks on eBay and you can find the link for them here on this forum. Search function is your friend - I'm off to search for the fix for fast blinking LED turn signals, see y'all later! -Rob Edited January 19, 2017 by RiggerRob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob C Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 I was told that replacing the oem flasher with a solid state unit would cure the rapid flash of led's. I looked at several money pits before I found my Escaper. I started looking in May and found my RV in August. DON"T be in a hurry. I take a friend with me when I go look at any vehicle and if he sees anything wrong we talk about the cost of repairs before any purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metaf5 Posted January 22, 2017 Author Share Posted January 22, 2017 Well I looked at it and here's the good and bad: Good: Belts, hoses, brake lines are in good condition Engine starts right up (faster than my 2010 Outback), doesn't make any funny noises or smoke under throttle, oil isn't black or metallic, none in the coolant, ATF is red and not burned. Much of the interior is in very good shape. Fridge, AC, Stove, lights work. Tires have tread and aren't sun damaged/cracked Suspension, steering, and frame bits all seem to be quite solid. Rusty, but not structurally. Brakes are good and not squishy. Bad: Tires are 7 years old No idea if the tank monitors work or water heater/sinks/drains since there was no water hookup One side wall is definitely water damaged. 3 feet of it is soft in the cabinets (the laminate isn't as flat as I should be and flexes more than the other side) and there's a little bit of softness halfway down the wall No dash AC Rear table is wobbly, seems like it needs a new pole I wouldn't trust the ladder with my weight. The wall seems pretty solid, but the ladder itself flexes on the mounts. From a ladder outside, it looks like the roof bows down slightly in the middle How bad is the wall? If the leak is stopped, or could be stopped, would it be fine since it's aluminum or should I just run immediately? Suppose I got incredibly lucky with the guy, and he'd take $5k for it - would that be a decent deal? Regardless of whether I run from this specific one, I'm pretty darn convinced on the Toyhome idea. Visiting it in person let me realize that it's pretty much perfect for my needs. Does anyone know of models other than the Sunland Express have the same layout as this one? I *really* like the 3-sided table-bed in the back of this thing, and the compact shower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanAatTheCape Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 10k? WAY OVER PRICED!!!! If all the appliances work (I doubt they do) and there is minimal mechanical work. maybe 5k. The 4 banger is a good engine, just a bit under powered. If not going into the mountains, it can do it. Unless owner has replaced anything rubber, you can plan on doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunkaman Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 i know i am restating all the above posts, but the water damage you described scares the bejeezers out of me. just my 2 cents: i may not run away from this one, but i would consider walking briskly. these are great rigs to own, and as i sense from most owners on this forum (self included), you really get immersed in owning, upgrading and preserving your rig. it is a no brainer that ANY rig you purchase will require additional expense. in my humble opinion, i would suggest that you keep looking and you will find your diamond in the rough. good luck. joe from dover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunkaman Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 try this site (if not already aware) ToyotaRVForSale.com may be of some help. joe from dover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markwilliam1 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Joe, that's an Awesome site! Could see examples of different Toy Homes and print out info for insurance purposes. Thanks Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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