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Furnace Heater Trouble Shooting- Help Needed


Jules the Dolphin

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On 10/26/2016 at 1:05 PM, Jules the Dolphin said:

Hi All,

 

Recently purchased a 1986 Dolphin with 38k. Most everything works but the furnace is not emitting heat. Propane is hooked up and works to light the hot water heater and stove and the furnace comes on but only blows cold air. I thought maybe it just needed to be left on for a while to cycle through the air and allow the propane to flow but its been going for about 30minutes and still only has cold air coming out. Any advice for trouble shooting this?

Thanks!

Is the burner coming on?

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On 12/22/2018 at 5:34 PM, Mister Blu said:

Hydroflame model 8516

 

 

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Does it light? If it's a direct spark ignition does it light then go out ? If it does your flame sensor rod could not be sensing the flame because of oxidation build up on it. You will have to pull it out and clean it with sand paper. That should make it work but sometimes have to be replaced.

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I posted this 2 years ago. My furnace would not ignite, everything worked but no fire. I built a manometer to check the gas pressure, it was good. Decides to pull the burner out and take a look. This is what I found, burned up in the flame area. Installed a new burner and it works great.

I bought this furnace new in 2007 and used it a lot. 50,000 miles in a Dolphin then in my now Warrior total of 80,000 miles or so. Now another 20,000 miles and it works great.It burned the burner up. Just throwing this out.

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On ‎10‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 12:05 PM, Jules the Dolphin said:

Hi All,

 

Recently purchased a 1986 Dolphin with 38k. Most everything works but the furnace is not emitting heat. Propane is hooked up and works to light the hot water heater and stove and the furnace comes on but only blows cold air. I thought maybe it just needed to be left on for a while to cycle through the air and allow the propane to flow but its been going for about 30minutes and still only has cold air coming out. Any advice for trouble shooting this?

Thanks!

`

I replace OEM furnace with wave 3 heater, removed OEM furnace and use as storage room or hide something, keep old furnace cover for decoy door

http://motorhomemodification-usa.blogspot.com/2011/01/olympian-wave-3-attached-to-cabinet_1971.html

J

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2 hours ago, j.gima said:

`

I replace OEM furnace with wave 3 heater, removed OEM furnace and use as storage room or hide something, keep old furnace cover for decoy door

http://motorhomemodification-usa.blogspot.com/2011/01/olympian-wave-3-attached-to-cabinet_1971.html

J

How do you like the wave 3?  I like the aspect of it not needing power!  

Edited by Odyssey 4x4
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4 hours ago, Odyssey 4x4 said:

How do you like the wave 3?  I like the aspect of it not needing power!  

For Wave 3 heater testing, I close bath room door and close off opening with reflex at open area next to wave 3 heater (behind water heater tank) very comfortable and open cab over bed side window and roof vent above cab over bed about one inch when use wave 3 or not

At mounting area Wave 3 heater bottom is higher than top and heater is aimed at cab over bed.

Normally I hang around in warm weather area and my sleeping bag is 0F degree queen size, I don’t use Wave 3 heater when go to sleep and I don’t use Wave 3 heater that much. Used wave 3 heater couple time when traveling from Southern Catalonia to Florida

All window are closed off with reflex velco attached ,I got big roll of reflex $45 at Home Depot

Backup heater: small clay flower pot place up side down at top of stove and turn on low heat, use as backup heater but wave 3 heater keep working.

1990 Toyota/Winnebago RV V6 rear bath

J

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It still makes CO2 and uses the interior air to provide combustion. The RV furnace exhaust system does two things it gets rid of by products and brings in make up air two important things. Caution is advised. An RV is a big box going somewhere in the winter to leak heat that's why the furnaces make so much heat!

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1 hour ago, Maineah said:

It still makes CO2 and uses the interior air to provide combustion. The RV furnace exhaust system does two things it gets rid of by products and brings in make up air two important things. Caution is advised. An RV is a big box going somewhere in the winter to leak heat that's why the furnaces make so much heat!

So just to ensure my understanding is correct, the Wave 3 radiant releases its combustion fumes into the camper (including unwanted condensation).  The RV furnace however releases its exhaust fumes out of the furnace outside of the vehicle, NOT introducing condensation/CO2 into the camper, only heat.  Is this correct?  

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Yes the regular RV furnaces are exactly the same as a home furnace. Burns outside air and releases it outside. Heats inside air and recycles it. Many complain about the heat vent outside as being heat loss from your camper but it's not. Just exhaust from the furnace. 

Linda S

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  • 5 weeks later...
On 12/30/2018 at 9:25 PM, Oldgriz said:

Does it light? If it's a direct spark ignition does it light then go out ? If it does your flame sensor rod could not be sensing the flame because of oxidation build up on it. You will have to pull it out and clean it with sand paper. That should make it work but sometimes have to be replaced.

No.  It does not light.  When it does not light.   I hear the ticking, so, i assume it is sparkng.  

I smell the gas for a moment.  

Prior to it failing to ignite at all, for about a weeks I did begin to hear that ticking ongoing... even while furnace was working just fine?

 

Sensor?  Spark gap?   Control Board?

 

my shoestrings are torn...

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On 1/5/2019 at 10:55 AM, Odyssey 4x4 said:

So just to ensure my understanding is correct, the Wave 3 radiant releases its combustion fumes into the camper (including unwanted condensation).  The RV furnace however releases its exhaust fumes out of the furnace outside of the vehicle, NOT introducing condensation/CO2 into the camper, only heat.  Is this correct?  

That is correct. The RV heater also brings in make up air from the very same port. It is a small box so they must be away to replace the air the furnace uses for combustion. Catalytic heaters have O2 depletion sensors and probably eire on the cautious side and they are pretty clean but I don't think I would want to sleep with one running without make up air from outside and yes they do make a good deal of moisture. I think the Wave heater people make a DC powered one that does bring in makeup air with a small fan I know one of them does. There are so other vented one like a wall mount but they are in the $600 + range 

Edited by Maineah
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On 11/5/2016 at 5:28 PM, Lee & Joan said:

4) I looked at the sparking points and they were not sparking where the gas flow was happening, they had been pushed against the frame, so they would spark but not light the gas so the control panel would shut off the gas. When I got the spark where it needed to be I finally had heat

Okay...  This is where i am at.   How to access the "sparking points" to clean, align, et cetera?  Detailed step by step will be helpful.  

Model 8516

 

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I can see no earthly reason why any of that would change in the service life of the heater unless it has been tinkered with. I can tell you the first thing that usually fails on the control board is the ign. The voltage is in the 9,000 volt range so if you decide to play with it you can get a nasty jolt so be careful it won't kill you but quickly you'll decide you don't want to do that again!

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With a sharp point electrode, it takes 20,000v to fire a 1/8" gap. Electricity is very lazy if it can make a complete circuit somewhere other than the gap it will. That includes YOU. While 20KV normally won't kill you, your reflex jerk can cause you a lot of harm.

Be CAREFUL around live HV circuits

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On 2/3/2019 at 6:02 PM, Mister Blu said:

No.  It does not light.  When it does not light.   I hear the ticking, so, i assume it is sparkng.  

I smell the gas for a moment.  

Prior to it failing to ignite at all, for about a weeks I did begin to hear that ticking ongoing... even while furnace was working just fine?

 

Sensor?  Spark gap?   Control Board?

 

my shoestrings are torn...

Not sure if this is the correct manual 8516. Is there a window that you can see the spark wire? The porcelain that the spark wire runs through can sometimes crack allowing the spark to short to the chassis. Same with the wire. You will still hear the snap of the spark. Same thing for the high voltage coil on the board, that coil can go bad and you will still hear the snap. Electricity is like water, it takes the path of least resistance. The spark igniter wire probably sparks to the burner. A bad destroyed burner will cause the energy to go elsewhere, the path of least resistance. That said it is possible to kill the high voltage coil in that scenario due to internal arching. If your burner is good then try bending the wire closer to the burner and see if you get spark. Note that the spark wire also senses if the is flame after ignition. Long story but rule out everything before throwing a new board at it. Even check your electrical grounds. 

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This is likely to be unpopular and for good reason.  I had gas going into my furnace and the blower functioned just fine, but I had no ignition.  So I shut the gas off, opened the combustion chamber, waited a good long while for the gas to move out, then I lit a small chunk of paper and threw in there, then shut everything up, and finally turned on the gas.  I have done that more than a few times and everything seems to be intact so far.

I'm not sure if this would be suitable for you furnace or your situation.  I'm just sharing what I have done.

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Before you go bending on things it maybe wise to consult a spark gap chart. At one CM it takes about 10 KV that's about .4" yes near a 1/2" free air. To wide it won't spark to narrow it won't light the propane. Atwood calls for about 1/8" to the burner so were are not dealing with big numbers 1/32" could make the difference whether it lights or not.

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9 hours ago, Squirrel said:

This is likely to be unpopular and for good reason.  I had gas going into my furnace and the blower functioned just fine, but I had no ignition.  So I shut the gas off, opened the combustion chamber, waited a good long while for the gas to move out, then I lit a small chunk of paper and threw in there, then shut everything up, and finally turned on the gas.  I have done that more than a few times and everything seems to be intact so far.

I'm not sure if this would be suitable for you furnace or your situation.  I'm just sharing what I have done.

These furnaces have two fans, same motor but a fan on each end of the motor. One fan circulates the air inside the coach. The other fan circulates air inside the combustion chamber, it pulls fresh air in and exhaust gas out. The combustion chamber is supposed to be a sealed system to keep carbon monoxide out of the living space. It is also supposed to be debri free to prevent back pressure. I have no idea if that combustion chamber becomes pressurized or becomes a vacuum when that circulation fan is running. So If that burner gasket has become damaged it is possible for CO to enter the living space. So I say make sure you have a good operating CO detector!

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Thanks for the concern Greg.  I lit my furnace with scraps of paper for about 2 years without any noticeable ill effects.  The gasket material on the combustion chamber is much thicker than what I have on the exhaust manifold.  It squishes down nicely and seals well.  I never said I was smart, but it worked every time.
I've never had a CO detector, just another person to tell me if my face is red, or if they have a headache.  I could see where it would be prudent though.

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When the furnace first starts it does not attempt to light that is a prepurge. The ideal is to blow any residual propane out of the furnace so stuffing burning paper in the furnace can A, set fire to the possible collection of propane in the fire box or B force flames from the burning paper out the exhaust on the side of the camper. Just saying.

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Dry oilite bearings on the blower/fan motor.

Crafty person answer, remove the motor, drill a tiny hole in each bearing bulge. Use a hypo to inject some 10 weight synthetic oil. Do this for several days.

Simi crafty buy a new motor and install it.

None of the above go to your local RV repair shop for new fan motor/new heater.

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On 2/9/2019 at 7:06 PM, Gulfstream Greg said:

Not sure if this is the correct manual 8516. Is there a window that you can see the spark wire? The porcelain that the spark wire runs through can sometimes crack allowing the spark to short to the chassis. Same with the wire. You will still hear the snap of the spark. Same thing for the high voltage coil on the board, that coil can go bad and you will still hear the snap. Electricity is like water, it takes the path of least resistance. The spark igniter wire probably sparks to the burner. A bad destroyed burner will cause the energy to go elsewhere, the path of least resistance. That said it is possible to kill the high voltage coil in that scenario due to internal arching. If your burner is good then try bending the wire closer to the burner and see if you get spark. Note that the spark wire also senses if the is flame after ignition. Long story but rule out everything before throwing a new board at it. Even check your electrical grounds. 

Not sure about a window.  Do not see any?  A few times i was able to stick a BBQ long lighter into exhaust and light it that way.  After three or four successful attempts, i have not been able to get it to fire again.  Is there a way to access the spark gap while furnace is still installed in rv?  

 

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On 2/11/2019 at 8:37 PM, Squirrel said:

Thanks for the concern Greg.  I lit my furnace with scraps of paper for about 2 years without any noticeable ill effects.  The gasket material on the combustion chamber is much thicker than what I have on the exhaust manifold.  It squishes down nicely and seals well.  I never said I was smart, but it worked every time.
I've never had a CO detector, just another person to tell me if my face is red, or if they have a headache.  I could see where it would be prudent though.

Usually gets you when you are sleeping. CO poisoning puts you into a deeper sleep then your dead!

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On 2/16/2019 at 6:30 PM, Mister Blu said:

Not sure about a window.  Do not see any?  A few times i was able to stick a BBQ long lighter into exhaust and light it that way.  After three or four successful attempts, i have not been able to get it to fire again.  Is there a way to access the spark gap while furnace is still installed in rv?  

 

Well you need to get the correct manual. The manual should tell you how to adjust the gap and troubleshoot.

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On 2/12/2019 at 6:53 PM, DanAatTheCape said:

my old heater is cranky - if I warm it up with an electrical heater then it will work. after it works once it is good until it gets really cold again.

So when it is cold the metal is slightly shrunk and when you warm it the metal expands and gets a gets a connection. Can be rust or other corrosion between some components or wire connectors. Could even be a cold solder joint or cracked trace on the control board. Can be a pain in the rear to find. Try the tap on things before using the electric heater.

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