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Car died - weird ? NOT Toyota


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NOT a Toyota. Japanese - yes and this is twice now I've had this happen. Once with a Subaru Impreza, and last night with a Chevy Tracker (100% Suzuki).

I have worked as a mechanic and electrician for much of my life. I only /athat for context and to suggest I am not totally clueless when it comes to such things.

Last night - I started up our 2001 Chevy Tracker and commenced to head to our other home 40 miles away. Note - it has 250,000 miles on it and runs like new.  Has some sort of Japanese 2.5 liter V6 and an Aisin A43DE trans (kind of like what our motorhomes often have with added electronics). Nothing has ever been apart in regard to anything major.  Amazingly reliable and fun rig.

So, I start it, get going around  50 MPH and it suddenly loses power and then would not run above engine idle speed. I was driving around 2-3 MPH and finally gave up. NOTE - NO "check engine lights" or warning lights came on of any kind.

I decided to go back to home #1, get a truck, and tow it home.  I then discovered the battery was pretty much stone dead (down to 11.6 volts).  I then also notices the battery terminals were corroded and loose.  The battery was 3 years old to the day almost. I have no idea if anything was wrong with the battery OR if the loose battery terminals had anything to do with any of this. It DID start fine shortly before it died. So, I am still a little stumped.

The battery was an Autocraft from Advance Auto and that also had me stumped. I buy all my batteries from Walmart because I am a strong advocate for batteries made by Johnson Controls. I have NO idea who makes Autocraft.   So I went to Walmart and discovered why I bought an Autocraft three years ago.  Walmart has never carried a battery to fit my Tracker (type 85). 

Long story short - I got a type 35 instead and made it fit with some alterations.  Tracker ran perfect and I drove it 200 miles since.  Like I said, I am still a little stumped.  Charging system works fine and  battery voltage is 14.2 volts when the engine is running with AC off, and 13.8 volts when AC is "on" and engine at idle speed.  What made this thing die?  I assume either the battery went dead and would not accept a charge, or lost contact due to bad terminals.  But no "charge light" came on because the alternator was still maintaining proper voltage for the system.  So that being true (I assume) - what's the deal?  No trick here. I don't really know the answer.  What I do know is - putting in a new battery and fixing the terminals fixed it.

Years  back - my Subaru Impreza did the same sort of thing.  With that - believe it or not - the alternator had lost ground contact with the engine it was bolted to - due to corrosion.  Again, NO warning light.  All I had to do is remove the alternator, sand off corrosion, and put it back on.  Drove it 50K mile after that with no issues until I sold it.

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2 minutes ago, jjrbus said:

I find it surprising that you have a vehicle with loose corroded terminals. Jim

I said that for the sake of brevity.  Actually the terminals looked fine (no corrosion on the outside).  They are those thin-wall brass or bronze terminals like most Japanese vehicles have now adays.  It looks as though they got very thin and to a point - would not get tight on the battery posts.  Almost like that yellow metal just evaporated.  But yeah - it's a kind of stupid problem that should not happen to a well maintained vehicle. I found them loose and then I looked at the contact areas - it was all just grey like it was oxidized and not making  contact.

I still cannot comprehend how this made the vehicle die.   Seems the alternator should of kept it all going.  That is unless the computer could somehow sense the battery was unable to accept a charge and put it all into some sort of default mode?  I just know that now - it is fine.  

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18 hours ago, jjrbus said:

Ah, the good old days when you could get a vehicle started and drive it home with no battery.

 

I had a little lightning-bolt of insight this morning. I have a hypothesis as to what happened.   If the positive lead to the battery lost all contact with the battery post - the alternator-regulator got a signal saying the battery was "stone dead."   In that case, voltage would rise as high as possible within the design limits of the alternator-regulator. How high that figure is - I do not know.  I suspect super-high voltage caused my ignition system and maybe my fuel system to go crazy.  It kind of makes sense now because when this happened - with the head-lights on, and  AC also on, the engine would idle fine.  Once I hit the gas it would crap out;  I suspect at low engine idle - voltage was low enough to not have a stroke.  I agonize over things like this because if it died once - I really want to know what the cause was so I can prevent it from happening again.  We drove it 400 miles since I fixed the terminals and put in a new battery and it's been fine.

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9 minutes ago, jdemaris said:

I had a little lightning-bolt of insight this morning. I have a hypothesis as to what happened.   If the positive lead to the battery lost all contact with the battery post - the alternator-regulator got a signal saying the battery was "stone dead."   In that case, voltage would rise as high as possible within the design limits of the alternator-regulator. How high that figure is - I do not know.  I suspect super-high voltage caused my ignition system and maybe my fuel system to go crazy.  It kind of makes sense now because when this happened - with the head-lights on, and  AC also on, the engine would idle fine.  Once I hit the gas it would crap out;  I suspect at low engine idle - voltage was low enough to not have a stroke.  I agonize over things like this because if it died once - I really want to know what the cause was so I can prevent it from happening again.  We drove it 400 miles since I fixed the terminals and put in a new battery and it's been fine.

Things like this drive me to distraction!   I have one now that is taxing my resources. I get a shock from my motorhome frame.  I checked and there is between 26 and 36 volts AC between frame and ground. By ground I mean earth.  I was told it is a phantom load on the meter, but I am getting shocked, so no phantom.  Nothing in my vehicle is 26 or 36 volts AC?  I have inquired on electrical forums and not a clue.  I have quadruple checked and can find nothing wrong.  Now if it was 12 volts DC or 120 volts AC, but no 26-36 volt AC? 

Years ago a new bunk house was built in Hornell NY for crews. The crews were getting shocked in the showers, not large knock you out shocks but little tickles.  All sorts of experts and equipment was brought in and no cause could be found!

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Voltage readings mean nothing unless you can read voltage and measure current at the same time.  It can drive you nuts.

A few years ago I put solar panels in a remote cabin and had it all wired for 12 volts.  At first all my lights were CFLs and all worked fine.  When I changed to LEDs, I had two that glowed dim even when turned off.  Finally in a fit of desperation - I cut one of power wires right off at the bulb-fixture and it STILL glowed dim.  Figure that one out?  Note - it WAS grounded to earth.  So, two wires to complete the 12 volt DC circuit plus a ground to earth.  Note - the fix was cutting off that d*mn ground wire.   

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20 hours ago, jjrbus said:

Things like this drive me to distraction!   I have one now that is taxing my resources. I get a shock from my motorhome frame.  I checked and there is between 26 and 36 volts AC between frame and ground. By ground I mean earth.  I was told it is a phantom load on the meter, but I am getting shocked, so no phantom.  Nothing in my vehicle is 26 or 36 volts AC?  I have inquired on electrical forums and not a clue.  I have quadruple checked and can find nothing wrong.  Now if it was 12 volts DC or 120 volts AC, but no 26-36 volt AC? 

Years ago a new bunk house was built in Hornell NY for crews. The crews were getting shocked in the showers, not large knock you out shocks but little tickles.  All sorts of experts and equipment was brought in and no cause could be found!

Start with checking your grounds.  For a little insight, check out this video

Not sure where in your RV the problem is but it needs to be addressed.  You replaced your power center.  Start there perhaps.

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2 hours ago, Back East Don said:

Start with checking your grounds.  For a little insight, check out this video

Not sure where in your RV the problem is but it needs to be addressed.  You replaced your power center.  Start there perhaps.

Thanks for the response.  Electric/electronics are always a challenge for me, but with a little help can muddle my way through many things.    I have bounced this issue off another RV forum and an electrical forum and am hitting a dead end.

When I look at the video he has voltage from the frame with no ground,   when he hooks up ground voltage disappears.   I have ground?

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19 minutes ago, jjrbus said:

I have ground?

But are you grounded?  If the leakage AC voltage/current was being shunted to ground, you would not have hardly any AC voltage.  I saw your original post and am going to read there to catch back up.  For some reason I was in a hurry and didn't revisit it.

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1 hour ago, Back East Don said:

Maybe that is why I didn't follow up as I can't find the question/post.

 

I do not see it either?     I tested ground several ways. One is with one of those 3 light polarity testers, next I jury rigged a GFI and plugged into that, then with an ohm meter. I did a continuity test on the cord.  Every thing I have tried indicates the coach is grounded.  Also to make matters worse this is intermittent.   I know refrigerators can cause issues so unplugged it.

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1 hour ago, jjrbus said:

I do not see it either?     I tested ground several ways. One is with one of those 3 light polarity testers, next I jury rigged a GFI and plugged into that, then with an ohm meter. I did a continuity test on the cord.  Every thing I have tried indicates the coach is grounded.  Also to make matters worse this is intermittent.   I know refrigerators can cause issues so unplugged it.

I think I am pushing the limit of how far off track I can push this thread though I doubt jdemaris will be too mad.  The test would be to use two extension cords.  One plugged into your campers electrical system and the other loose.  Then take your meter and measure AC voltage between the ground on the frame of the vehicle and the ground of the spare electrical cord.  If the meter is reading an AC voltage, your chassis is not AC grounded.

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1 hour ago, Back East Don said:

I think I am pushing the limit of how far off track I can push this thread though I doubt jdemaris will be too mad.  The test would be to use two extension cords.  One plugged into your campers electrical system and the other loose.  Then take your meter and measure AC voltage between the ground on the frame of the vehicle and the ground of the spare electrical cord.  If the meter is reading an AC voltage, your chassis is not AC grounded.

I would be happy to take your lashes for you should we be found out!  Good point though, someone with the same problem would unlikely find this thread. 

How about shocking RV problem?  

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15 minutes ago, jjrbus said:

I would be happy to take your lashes for you should we be found out!  Good point though, someone with the same problem would unlikely find this thread. 

How about shocking RV problem?  

 

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