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1988 Warrior - good purchase??


MaineErik

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Hi Folks,

This is my first post here - I'm hoping some of you experts can share your expertise and advice towards a potential 1st time motorhome purchase.  My wife and I (& two young kids) need a camper to travel round trip from Maine to Colo next spring for work, we'll be there for 5 weeks and don't want to rent a house/apt.  Plus these little campers seem like a lot of fun in general :)  Our family is used to tenting, so the Warrior would be a major room upgrade for us.  We have a limited budget and can't spend a lot, but I also understand that you get what you pay for.  We are used to old vehicles (95 Honda & 91 Volvo are our personal vehicles, the volvo has 365k miles!).  So here is what we have found and are considering:

  • 1988 Winnebago Warrior, 84k mi, 22RE, 4spd manual, $3700 (note this price overrides price in ad as it includes extra repairs necessary to pass inspection) - http://maine.craigslist.org/rvs/5651965292.html  Model is rear bath with drivers side dinette (319RB?)
  • Owner has done extensive restoration (replaced framing/foam/skin) to roof and walls and I've been unable to find any weak areas including on the roof.  Fresh silicone is on all the seams.  Roof recently painted.  It rained a lot recently and I could find no damp areas.
  • Drove it to my garage today (started immediately with cold engine) and mechanic couldn't find any serious issues.  He did note that the head gasket has a minor leak (would pass inspection just fine).  The $3700 asking price includes new tires, new brake pads/shoes, repair to exhaust, and rebuilt wheel bearings on front (owner is retired mechanic and is making these repairs).  Engine oil looked good. 
  • Drive to the garage & back was 40 min total, speeds up to 55mph, some hills.  This was my first time driving a MH but still I found it drove very well, had good power, steered straight, no unusual bouncing, shifted easily and clutch grabbed well.  
  • There has been a minor accident to the drivers/front/bottom corner of coach, where propane tank sits.  Damage to Al and plastic exterior but tank is fine. Door for tank still latches, but just barely.  Overall body paint needs a polish but otherwise seems good.
  • Undercarriage shows some surface rust but nothing that the mechanic was worried about.  Propane tank also has surface rust but seems solid and is full.  I haven't done a pressure leak test from the tank to stove/heater/etc.
  • Interior has operable stove (no oven), water heater, water pump.  The fridge (orig) is missing it's gasket and has not been tested, I would be surprised if it worked.  I would prob. get a small 12v fridge to replace it with.  Window above sink is broken, local glass guy said $40 to replace.  More TLC needed for cracked toilet seat, stained carpet, new curtains, and adding upholstery to bed-over-cab which has new foam (dinette upholstery looks fine).  Coach AC blows cold and has new exterior cover.  Both roof vents are new.
  • There is no coach battery.  Instead the previous owner rigged up the coach elec system to the engine battery, there's a household on/off switch to control the connection.  I would want to install a deep cell for coach use.  The previous owner also started to add solar, two panels are installed on the roof but the wires dead end inside the coach.  Most of our nights will be in wild or free locations, so autonomy from the main grid is important.
  • There is no radio, though 2 small speakers exist in cabin.  Cruise control does not work.  Cabin AC does not work (belt was removed), not a deal breaker in northern New England.

The owner reportedly purchased this RV for $2500 2 yrs ago and the restoration has cost $700 so far not including the extra repairs I listed above.  It's not been registered or inspected since then but he has driven it around the parking lot once in awhile.  The owner previously owned an 84 Dolphin and bought this as an upgrade but has since injured himself to the point where long car trips aren't possible.  He'd like to get the money he's invested back and seems unwilling to lower the price.  We have several months before our trip to CO but don't want to miss out on a good opportunity, especially one that is so local for us.

Thoughts? Advice?? Words of Wisdom???  Thank you!!
Erik

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I have the 87 Itasca version of this as they are both the same pretty much.  Was just talking about refrigerators in a thread lower down.  I priced out a 3 way Norcold that is the same as the 2 way I purchased to replace the dead fridge in mine.  If you are going to be off grid, you are only going to get so far on a DC fridge and one battery even with solar.  The discussions on this have been numerous, I'll save you the long version, just get the 3 way, it'll be less headache in the long run as you've nearly everything else you need in place.

Don't like the word silicone.  Should be lap sealant.  Double check.  Pain to remove and replace with the correct stuff.  Check the sleeping berth with the mattress out for soft spots and check that the deck feels solid.  Without a working fridge though, I'd say the price is a bit high for the northeast even if the rest is pretty good. 

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as I just did a 7 day off grid camping trip I could not agree more a propane refrigerator is costly to buy but you will never regret it . used to tent never missed ice chest. only way to go .can free..ze food make ice cubes .

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19 hours ago, 5Toyota said:

as I just did a 7 day off grid camping trip I could not agree more a propane refrigerator is costly to buy but you will never regret it . used to tent never missed ice chest. only way to go .can free..ze food make ice cubes .

 

On 7/12/2016 at 4:33 PM, Back East Don said:

Was just talking about refrigerators in a thread lower down, just get the 3 way, it'll be less headache in the long run as you've nearly everything else you need in place.

Thanks for the advice on the seams/silicone.  And I'll take a closer look under the mattress, that's one area I didn't inspect.

I wasn't terribly concerned about the fridge but maybe I would feel differently about it in a MH compared to just camping with a cooler.  And it's quite possible it does work, but with the missing gasket it seems ill fated (even with a new gasket).

I've been looking for the past couple weeks everywhere in the country via Craigslist, eBay, this forum, and the toyotarvs.com for a camper and this is by far the most affordable one that doesn't addmittedly have water issues.  I'm putting a lot of weight on the Toyota bits (engine, trans, etc) and this one I've found seems to be good in that regard.  Am I way off here?  Should I just wait and continue looking?  These are probably very subjective questions, but I'd still appreciate further advice.  Thanks.

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5 minutes ago, MaineErik said:

I've been looking for the past couple weeks everywhere in the country via Craigslist, eBay, this forum, and the toyotarvs.com for a camper and this is by far the most affordable one that doesn't addmittedly have water issues.

If it is indeed solid and no rot, that is a big step forward.  Just keep in mind it can be very well hidden so take plenty of time to inspect it top to bottom.  Others have bought seemingly clean ones and have been surprised at finding little hidden stuff.  Fridge should be no problem to at least plug into AC and turn on.  Two screws to take off the vent cover to access the back of it.  Chimney part should get hot, inside fridge should get cold.  Might still have propane problems but that is half way there.  Worth knowing before buying.  I took the word of the nice old couple selling the one I got that it worked.  It got a little cold when plugged in then nothing.  Heater in the chimney was warm, just no cold inside.

I don't know anything about you, what you expect, want but most importantly can do.  These are old machines and they are not getting any younger.  Charming yes and can be reliable.  Can also turn into a money pit and others have gotten in over their heads. 

When the wife and I had barely two nickels to rub together (I"m old and still don't know what that phrase means), we used to camp with gear I had leftover from when I was a boyscout.  There is what you can get by with and what you might want.  If I'm spending 5 weeks with some rug rats (term of affection to be sure) in a sardine sized tin can, I'm going to want everything to work.  I am on the other hand, not you.  What is it that you want?  What is the total budget?  What can you do yourself?  What can you live without?

Good ones are getting harder to find but they do come up.  This is prime summer season here in the northeast and much of the rest of the country.  If your heart is set on a toyota, waiting is no guarantee that you will get something in your timeline but they do come up but sell really quickly.

Go have a really close look.  Inspect the roof and check for softness in the walls or berth inside.  If it really is water tight and is solid, wouldn't be the worse deal out there.  A couple recently posted one of these worth it questions recently that was heart breaking.  They spent $3500 and then spent another $3500 in mechanical work, only to then discover extensive water damage beyond what they could do anything with themselves.  Even mine, I bought pretty blind.  I knew about some damage in the back but was oblivious to the common rotted out berth in front.  I'm pretty handy but was overwhelmed and nearly gave up.  Don't become that guy.  Inspect it or get someone who really knows what to look for.

So you know, I have this exact same RV only as an 87 Itasca (both made in the same factory)  I know it pretty well.

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9 hours ago, Back East Don said:

Note: the new tires need to be load range D.  Lots of info on this site about tires.

I believe the tires he's putting on are D's, they were bought specifically for the camper.  I'll double check.  I consider myself pretty handy, I do most of the work on our 91 Volvo plus all the early 90's Honda's and Subaru's we've had - but I have enough on my plate that I don't want to spend a lot of time fixing up a vehicle - maintaining yes - just not getting up to speed, that's something I'd rather pay someone to do, create a healthy baseline for me to start at.  

I hear you on living with charming rug rats in a small can, this will certainly be a long test and 1st time experiment for our family!  I won't be buying this specific camper before doing a full test of all the systems equipment but I do expect that some of it will not work --- which seems to be the tradeoff from what I've seen so far --- for instance this morning I called the seller of this Sunrader in Michigan (it sold shortly after I called, seemed like an outstanding deal, would have been a huge and $$$ trip to retrieve in any case), it was in great shape but hadn't been used in 6.5yrs, so new tires, full tuneup, etc. were going to be needed.  Or for the same price I could get a refurbished camper on a mechanically sound 'yota but has questionable rv systems.  It's like choose one: a) engine/etc. ready to go or 'b) camper bits ready to go.  Either way the price will climb to make it tip top.  Even the $7000 campers I've seen have issues, and a lot of them just have a dorm fridge in them!

I've only been diligently searching for a couple weeks - so if the trend continues perhaps I will find something more ideal closer to home.  We don't want to spend more than $5500 with the priority being on a reliable Toyota vehicle and on a comfy camper second (but I of course don't want to rebuild the coach b/c of rot).  The thing is I just get SO excited that I wanna jump on any of the ones I see!!  I'm sure you know what I mean :) 

Again, thanks for lending your expertise.

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In my estimation/opinion, you are either just a little too late in the season or just a bit too early AKA, the worst time and thinnest selection out there.  Add to that these are getting harder to find.

Glad you have some idea on mechanical stuff but it is the house side that will kill your good plans dead

I took a look at what is available up the entire east coast and people are asking a lot for junk.  That said, in the RV world, $5500 is relative peanuts.  Just about covers the spring maint on some rigs.  You could spend that much on a used pop-up.  Hence why I asked if you are handy.  It is the equalizer in the game and probably the only thing that is going to make your plan work.  I say it a lot, seal up the top and get it water tight.  From there if you got to fix stuff, do it in order of what is most important.  Eventually you'll get there. 

 

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4 hours ago, Back East Don said:

In my estimation/opinion, you are either just a little too late in the season or just a bit too early AKA, the worst time and thinnest selection out there.  Add to that these are getting harder to find.

When in your estimation would be the best time to shop?  Starting in Nov?  We need to have one ready to go by early March at the very latest, so my concern would be waiting too late and stressing out.

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1 minute ago, MaineErik said:

When in your estimation would be the best time to shop?

My thinking about shopping in July is that the nicer units are being used.  It is after all summer.  My point is July just seems to be the off month for buying anything but the leftovers.  Mid August through the fall would likely be better around here but I think price range has a lot of influence on what you'll find. As people wind down their vacation plans, a couple might come up for sale.

If I wanted to sell mine and I could wait, I'd put it up for sale in the spring as this is when many start thinking about nicer weather.  I figure I can also get a better price then. Unless I purchased another RV and needed to sell the old one, why would I sell it off season?  Mid season is also when guys like you are itching to pull the trigger on a bargain priced RV.  I took a quick look here in NE, NY, NJ all the way down to FL.  I used multiple different search terms trying to maybe find something you might have missed.  Just not seeing it.  I've also been doing my own shopping for a larger class A (second RV for my semi-retirement) so a few more searches wasn't a big deal. 

Something might turn up even in the next few weeks, there is just no way to know.  We've seen a number of seekers who took a long time to find just the right one.  All of this is just one persons opinion.

The one thing I can say is that I would have rather have found one in better shape than the one I got.  6 years in, I'm still chasing it down with little bits of residual work to dealing with the extensive repairs I did.  Maybe I am just too fussy but the plan is to hang on to our for as long as we can keep it reliable.  Last year was pretty expensive as I had the tailpiece bearings replaced and fluids changed in the transmission, replaced the entire exhaust, 7 new tires (yes new spare) and stripped the roof, replacing all the vents and coating the roof with EPDM rubber.  I even took off all the edge trim and prepped, sanded and repainted.  Also revisited the outer aluminum skin around the berth completely, patching it and repainting the entire front.  A lot of money and work. This year was relatively cheap as I only replaced the mattress and rebuilt the dinette.

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I think this may be the rig for you IF it is structurally sound, but then again, I am partial to the drivetrain.

This IMHO is the holy grail of TH drivetrains, 22RE, 4 speed, 6 lugs all around. I have never seen one in the flesh. And it has been owned by a retired mechanic.

Don't know  a thing about this particular coach builder, but I am sure others do.

As for the fridge, yeah, having a working one sure is nice, but not a deal breaker, IMO. New ones are pricey, but, if you are not in a big hurry, I think you might find a reasonably new one used somewhere. You say you will be in one place in Colorado?  I assume it will be a campground with shore power?  If so, put up a good sized tent and stick a dorm fridge inside. Too bad it doesn't have an awning. They can be made into a screened in porch which would be nice for a longterm setup.

Edited by 86rader
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I picked up my rig in Feb. I had shopped for one for over 2 years before finding the 21 sunrader I had been looking for.

Mine had the death axle, but everything else was in decent shape; i ended up replacing everything anyway; went 6 lugs all around,. 1 ton brakes etc etc. i could very easily have just driven it as is until those things needed replaced; however most of my trips are LONG multi-mile vacations to ridiculously hot places, deserts etc. We like exploring and taking routes that are dangerously sparsely populated so i figured why not splurge and fix everything right the first time before i win a Darwin.

getting ready for this years big toy trip.. gonna be awesome. I think fuel prices are a factor in people selling RVs also. When Fuel is cheap so are the toyotas. If Gas soars again, watch out.

Edited by Totem
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We won't be at many campgrounds, most of them will be closed still while we are in CO.  Our plan now is to stay at a variety of places, mostly boondocking, and traveling into town for work, which will be 3-4 days/week max.  We'll get a month pass to the local community center for showers.  It will basically be tent camping on steroids.

On 7/15/2016 at 8:09 AM, 86rader said:

This IMHO is the holy grail of TH drivetrains, 22RE, 4 speed, 6 lugs all around.

I agree, the manual plus 22RE is exactly what my wife and I prefer - so many of the 22REs we've seen have autos in them unfortunately.  The most significant reason we haven't pulled the trigger on this particular truck is the interior layout: the single dinette with RB.  For our family of 4 and with 6 total weeks of continuous rv living my wife feels we will want more flexibility inside for sitting/lounging.  She likes the rear dinette (on top of the 22RE + 4spd = even more rare!) but I actually have reservations about traveling with younger kids and being so spread out inside the camper while on the road.  Parked, ya for sure, the RD seems way better than the RB.  

On the plus side we know this camper has been gutted and rebuilt with blue foam board and fresh plastic interior panels - it should be H2O proof and is rot free.  It's also been gone over by a very picky mechanic who found it on a whole pretty sound.  Having reliable truck mechanicals and a sealed shell are paramount for us as I won't have time to spend extensive time on those things before our trip.  We have a friend with a class B who runs a marine 12V marine fridge/freezer, laptop, lights, fantastic fan off of 150W solar and a Goal Zero box with 2 batts --- he's never gone below 60% charge with the setup.  So finding alternatives to the broken and original domestic seems achievable. ((It seems like I'm always trying to talk myself into just going for it...)) 

We have until March to find something - but being up in central Maine makes it difficult to get to a camper in time to buy it - the best deals are snatched up within 24-48hrs and haven't been local to us.  So we can wait for the stars to align, which would absolutely need to happen in the next few months, or we go for the one we know that isn't quite perfect but will probably get the job done and is within our budget.  Then in a year or more etc., if we get hooked on this RV thing, we can sell it if we choose and upgrade --- to a 22RD, 4spd, 6 lug, Sunrader RD :) 

This whole thing is a daily topic of thought and discussion for us.

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