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The 2016 July Generator Challenge!


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Its time to put up or shut up on the generator running a rooftop AC.

Like jde I call shenanagans on honda eu2000i starting AND running AC in a cooling function whereby on camera we witness it cool a rig and not fail.

This is a cat call to all people that have honda EU2000is to document this. I have yet to see anyone in here successfully run rooftops in real world 8 hour intervals not even with pairing 2 of them...

Conversely, I will demonstrate the power and versatility of the Harbor Freight Predator inverter generator coupled with a Mach 1 power saver edition 11,000 BTU rooftop unit but you may choose ANY roof top unit and generator on this challenge.

The challenge Pretexts and Rules:

You must document, on video:

1.) your location, sea level, outside temperature, inside temperature in the RV, date and time. Outside temps must at least be 85 degrees.

2.) successfully start your AC using nothing but said generator

3.) Use any generator you like that's under 3000 watts.

4.) allow the AC to complete a cycle based on its thermostat; in otherwords let it cool to the set point then it will stop the compressor for a bit then cycle on again.

 

The successful completion of the 4 items above will reveal the best selections for AC on the go.

 

I will start the challenge and will document the following states, assuming it stays hot enough which i don't think will be a problem in July:

1.) Michigan

2.) Tennessee

3.) Ohio

4.) West Virginia

5.)  North Carolina

6.)  Indiana

 

So, do I have any takers? because when this is over this threads gonna have proof that the Predator wins (and probably some others will win it too). and the only way to refute it is to show at least one example of similar conditions success.

Any takers? Anyone>?

 

 

Edited by Totem
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My tools and equipment:

1.) iphone with camera and "my altitude" free app

2.) predator 2500 inverter generator from HF

3.) 11,000 btu coleman mach 1 power saver edition

4.) 1985 toyota sunrader (made in Indiana version)

5.)  digital thermometer

6.) Kill a watt meter (not required but it will be great to see whats happening)

 

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actually no, i can proove it without continuous footage; dont worry i will post it.

but your and the others refusing to put your sacred honda cow up to the challenge is telling of Honda EU2000i's being fairy tale solutions that in reality do not work. Lets see it if they are so great? so far in each case i have seen there are issues with them.
 I see fancy 800 lbs boxes, baffles, and cult like devotion to these $1000 generators that cant even run roof units.

Now after saying all of that I am really hoping my HF unit runs. Last summer it was running a 13,500 mach 3 i would say 50% of the time; that is if it would start i could get it to run on high non stop until the tank of gas ran out. had overload mostly though in high heat before a start occured. This time around my money is on the predator. People have become obsessed with emotional sense of "reliability" in here but forget that its reliably not running the task at hand....

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here is a movie that is actually  more germane and less snarky. Since you obviously have nothing to contribute technologically to the solution of generator powered AC. Its only 7 minutes and demonstrates a way for the Honda crowd to win by buying more expensive equipment. No doubt the hond fans will rush out to buy this device:

Note that this device is both an inverter and combiner; so it takes in power from the generator, sends some to the load, uses some to charge and takes some from the battery. Interesting!

Edited by Totem
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On a side note, I love how moderators constantly berate people for posting unrelated garbage on threads in here whilst hypocritically doing it themselves. The paint drying post above is a great example of this. keep up the good work!

Edited by Totem
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neither is a rooftop unit on a toyota. if you have rooftop videos that are germane thats fine, otherwise, lets keep the posted videos to a minimum. Unless of course you will be posting a test of a rooftop unit, on a toyota.

Edited by Totem
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thats because it was the FIRST sentence Derek.

and as mentioned we all know a eu2000 can start AC; but can it RUN one and cool a camper without choking in heat... if so whats the data. you posting of inane youtube videos is tiresome and as the OP I ask you to stop now for this particular thread. start another please.

 

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not really, but i would like to see the altitude and if possibe the data from kill a watt ; this will help people see whats actually going on. its expected different locations will have different altitudes.

Edited by Totem
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5 hours ago, Totem said:

here is a movie that is actually  more germane and less snarky. Since you obviously have nothing to contribute technologically to the solution of generator powered AC. Its only 7 minutes and demonstrates a way for the Honda crowd to win by buying more expensive equipment. No doubt the hond fans will rush out to buy this device:

Note that this device is both an inverter and combiner; so it takes in power from the generator, sends some to the load, uses some to charge and takes some from the battery. Interesting!

Why is he running the AC through an inverter when he has a generator? That's kind of stupid just buy a generator that will do the job. My 2800 watt Onan gen set ran the AC just fine!

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9 hours ago, Totem said:

My tools and equipment:

1.) iphone with camera and "my altitude" free app

2.) predator 2500 inverter generator from HF

3.) 11,000 btu coleman mach 1 power saver edition

4.) 1985 toyota sunrader (made in Indiana version)

5.)  digital thermometer

6.) Kill a watt meter (not required but it will be great to see whats happening)

 

Kill a Watt meter is only good to 1800 watts or a max of 15 amps.

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13 hours ago, Maineah said:

Kill a Watt meter is only good to 1800 watts or a max of 15 amps.

not a problem with the power saver edition AC.... ive already used it. and recorded video and its draw is way under that... but hey, the honda eu2000i is only good to put out 1600 watts anyway so... what could you hurt?  ;)

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14 hours ago, Maineah said:

Why is he running the AC through an inverter when he has a generator? That's kind of stupid just buy a generator that will do the job. My 2800 watt Onan gen set ran the AC just fine!

I AGREE! why try to run AC with a 1600 watt?  my 2500 watt runs it fine also now that i downsized to the 11,000 btu PS edition AC. The unit he has (inverter) i think has higher output than the ryobi generator. if memory serves the ryobi is another 1600 (honda eu2000i clone) so its not strong enough;

Edited by Totem
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Totems video is interesting but useless in this discussion. For starters the guy has a 24v battery bank and we have on idea of what his full set up is. His A/C is drawing over 60 amps of AC to run it. That's like 7,000W. Something is wonky here.

FYI I have run a Coleman 13.5 roof A/C with a Onan 2500 at 100 degree days @ 5,000 ft or higher. The A/C did have a starting booster cap in it. One thing about the Onan is it has a huge flywheel and a lot of the surge power is there.

 

 

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Oh WME? the "discussion" is me cat calling the uselessness of a 1600 watt continuous honda generator to run a rooftop AC, and asking for people to come forward with ways that they have run rooftop units with generators.

I think this gentlemans solution is interesting because he uses a smaller honda like generator (a ryobi 2000/1600) to put power into an inverter and charge the bank while relying on the inverter's superior output (which its assumed is higher than the generator) sort of like a hybrid solution. Wonky yes, but is it practical? Look I dont care how they do it but the challenge is to come out with a useful generator that runs a rooftops. Obviously the old Onan on boards are up to that task but but about the portables?

Maineah stated " That's kind of stupid just buy a generator that will do the job "... and thats been my point on all of these generator rants all along. The Honda eu2000i is not meant to run rooftops and we even see people struggling to run rooftops with two of them in here. SO back to maineahs and my point: why not just get a generator up to the task.

 

I too used  a 2500 watt generator to run a 13500 rooftop unit with a cap at over 100 degrees in KY mountains.

I remind that the challenge is to do just that : power a rooftop, with practicality, not for 20 minutes or an hour while under 85 degrees.

The point of the AC is to cool when its terrible outside. If the generator cannot do that than you should look to one that can.

24 volt battery banks were put forth as a solution to run 24 volt rooftop units the other day; and hey if you can do it and cool a rig i say go for it. But as we see in the wonky video the guy is not happy with the results.

The honda eu2000i crowd had better find a way to get pairing working and spend > $3000 for something that can much more reliably be attained for $1100 on a 2500 watt and PS mach 1....but hey, some of us are made of money. Lets see what people come up with...

I would call an Onan 2500 or 2800 watt generator more than up to the task and an easy challenge winner for sure.

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Well maybe the Hybrid approach might be an answer instead of a big flywheel:P All you would need to add to your Honda is a 60 AMP converter, a 3000w continuous inverter, and a 100AH battery. 

Edited by WME
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20 hours ago, WME said:

Well maybe the Hybrid approach might be an answer instead of a big flywheel:P All you would need to add to your Honda is a 60 AMP converter, a 3000w continuous inverter, and a 100AH battery. 

Some inverters are capable of load sharing.  

Example
Here is an example of how load sharing works. A motor home has a 3.5 or 4 kW generator directly running two
roof air conditioners. The inverter/charger charges the batteries and transfers generator power through to the
outlet circuits where the television is also turned ON. The home owner then starts the microwave oven, which
also gets its power through the inverter/charger on an outlet circuit. The inrush current, demanded by the
microwave, in addition to the requirements of all the other loads running, causes the generator to bog down. This
results in a quick voltage dip and temporary drop in frequency. The Freedom unit will instantly detect this
condition, drop its loads from the generator and begin inverting to power the microwave and television. The
generator will then recover quickly in the presence of a lower load and its voltage and frequency will stabilize.
After 8 to 10 seconds, the Freedom unit will transfer its loads back to the generator and slowly ramp up its
charger again. By sharing some of the load with the generator in this way, the ëoutlet-poweredí loads are
protected and the generator can better cope with quick changes in load demand.
On 6/23/2016 at 1:15 PM, Derek up North said:

So you're willing to sit through 8 hour videos of an A/C and generator running? Split screen?

To pass the time, you can watch this exciting movie. :)

 

This is a great video!  Do you have any on grass growing?    

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I don't use AC anywhere except for dashboard AC when driving if the windows have to be closed when raining.  That if warm or cold outside since my dog fogs up the windows otherwise.  That being said, if I DID care about AC powered by a generator - no video is going to tell me what I need to know. Not unless that video runs for weeks and shows that AC starting up, over and over.   Any device with a compressor will have first-starts that will vary in initial power demands depending on condition, air temps, etc.  My question is - why on earth - would someone choose any 1600 watt inverter to run a roof-top AC unit? Just to prove a point that it will sometimes work with just a select few AC units?

Honda 2000i is a 1600 watt generator.    Even the small Coleman Cub 9200 BTU AC unit for RVs runs at a steady 1550 watts when it is REAL hot out. Note that is "running" and not power needed to start. Same unit needs up to 4000 watts to start, depending on temps.  Will it sometimes start on the 2000 watts of max surge rating of a Honda 2000i?  Yes.  Will it do so consistently regardless of temps? No.

Note that there are so-called "smart start" cap kits.  Some work great and some hardly do anything.  The Supco Super Boost has been proven to be pretty useless.  On the other hand, the Dometic Smart Start does an amazing job.  So, for little 1600 watt Honda purists - a $450 Smart Start kit along with your $1000 Honda 1600 watt generator will let you start 15K BTU air conditioners if you want to show off.  One test I read shows a Honda 2000i hooked to a rooftop AC unit.  Used with the Supco Super Boost - starting current was 44 amps @ 80 volts (3,520 watts).  When hooked to the Dometic Smart Start - starting current was 18 amps @ 90 volts (1620 watts).

Personally, I see faulty logic choosing a Honda 2000i for running rooftop AC units.  If I wanted such a thing (and I don't) - seems money better spent on somewhat more powerful generator.

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Its way to much fun reinventing the wheel.:rolleyes:

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The battery bank is nothing more than another generator in essence paralleled to the generator it really does not make much sense to me

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3 hours ago, Totem said:

agree with jde big time... except the smart start... that costs what? last time i checked it was very pricey.

I said it costs around $450. I call that "pricey."   You don't think so?

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no, i agree on the 1600 being not up to the task, but the smart start is for boats;  where AC might save your life running only a huge battery bank and at $450 per its really not a good RV solution. I mean hell I can put a small nuclear fission reactor to run my AC that might fit in 5 gallon bucket but at some point we have to look at reasonable costs here.. in short $450 more to allow a $1000 honda to run is not reasonable so yes i think its pricey and yet dont think its a good solution because of that.

I've yet to see anyone in here wish to take the challenge yet getting back on topic.. anyone gonna test their little hondacorns? the peak heat week is rapidly approaching... anyone?

 

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Yamaha makes an inverter generator that will run the AC for around $1700 so if you add in the batteries and the smart start the Yamaha is the better deal with less effort.

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2 hours ago, Totem said:

 

I've yet to see anyone in here wish to take the challenge yet getting back on topic.. anyone gonna test their little hondacorns? the peak heat week is rapidly approaching... anyone?

 

Not going to be me.  Buying a 1600 watt Honda 2000i for big bucks makes zero sense to me when I can get a different make with more power for half the money.  Note though that I also do not give a d*mn about AC except when driving.  Here in northern Michigan the Fantastic fan does all we want, even in the hottest times of summer.

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1 hour ago, Maineah said:

Yamaha makes an inverter generator that will run the AC for around $1700 so if you add in the batteries and the smart start the Yamaha is the better deal with less effort.

If Japanese maker was a requirement i agree but I am running mine just fine with a $12 supco and a 2500 watt inverter from HF proudly made in china. I ran it last week while up north on a humid 88 degree day in leelanau  mi, while driving (had the dog in the back and he was hot so i put it on) and it ran flawlessly as well as ran the converter... I didnt take movies of it though because I want a temp in the 90s... and I feel we will get there in a couple weeks.

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That's fine I don't need one either but if you want quiet it's either a Honda or Yamaha or a half ton of batteries.

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unfortunately no. we want quiet lightweight AND an running AC.
so basically you are stuck with China or Yamaha EF2400iSHC... period.

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Ok Totem, not true test by your specifications. I don't have a camera. Today I installed the hard start capacitor and the new relay kit made by Dometic on my 11k Dometic AC. I started my Honda 2000i, put the AC fan only on (lowest setting) then started the air on low. The compressor kicked on, the Honda ran the unit. So far so good. I then set the fan to medium and cranked up the air to 6 (out of 8.) When the compressor kicked on the Honda died...Bummer! So I lowered the fan to low and dialed down the cold to 4. Started up the Honda and it ran the unit for over 4 continuous hours. Slows down a second when the compressor kicks on but did not overload..Wow! So the weather today in Northern Ohio was 88 and the humidity was in the upper 70%..it was hot and my rig was sitting on my concrete drive in full sun. I'm around sea level though and it wasn't 90 out but close. Inside my Granville it was around 95 and it took awhile but the Honda cooled it down to the upper 70's. I even plugged in a small electric fan running off the Honda also and she kept running. I know this isn't the test you described but it's a start for me. My hope is I can run the Honda while mounted on the back and cool my rig while cruising as my cab air isn't repairable. Keep me and my pups cool. Got to figure out a way to secure the Honda so nobody can steal it! I know the Honda won't work in the Rockies but it might in the Appalachians near me. Who knows? My other option is to buy the Dometic smart start unit but @ $450 that's expensive. I've read the Honda 2000i can run a roof AC on economy mode with the smart start installed. That would still be somewhat reasonable as I think to fix my cab air would be over $1000. I'll keep you updated if you want. I'm not plugging the Honda, it's just the only generator I own. Mark 

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13 minutes ago, markwilliam1 said:

Ok Totem, not true test by your specifications. I don't have a camera. Today I installed the hard start capacitor and the new relay kit made by Dometic on my 11k Dometic AC. I started my Honda 2000i, put the AC fan only on (lowest setting) then started the air on low. The compressor kicked on, the Honda ran the unit. So far so good. I then set the fan to medium and cranked up the air to 6 (out of 8.) When the compressor kicked on the Honda died...Bummer! So I lowered the fan to low and dialed down the cold to 4. Started up the Honda and it ran the unit for over 4 continuous hours. Slows down a second when the compressor kicks on but did not overload..Wow! So the weather today in Northern Ohio was 88 and the humidity was in the upper 70%..it was hot and my rig was sitting on my concrete drive in full sun. I'm around sea level though and it wasn't 90 out but close. Inside my Granville it was around 95 and it took awhile but the Honda cooled it down to the upper 70's. I even plugged in a small electric fan running off the Honda also and she kept running. I know this isn't the test you described but it's a start for me. My hope is I can run the Honda while mounted on the back and cool my rig while cruising as my cab air isn't repairable. Keep me and my pups cool. Got to figure out a way to secure the Honda so nobody can steal it! I know the Honda won't work in the Rockies but it might in the Appalachians near me. Who knows? My other option is to buy the Dometic smart start unit but @ $450 that's expensive. I've read the Honda 2000i can run a roof AC on economy mode with the smart start installed. That would still be somewhat reasonable as I think to fix my cab air would be over $1000. I'll keep you updated if you want. I'm not plugging the Honda, it's just the only generator I own. Mark 

Toss the crappy little Honda right in the trash and go buy a disposable Chinese genny! :rolleyes:

I had a motorhome (not a Toy) without dash air and used the roof air to cool it when driving. It performed much better after I put a small oscillating fan on the floor behind the driver and passenger seat to move air about the driver area. Possibly the cab fan might have the same effect?

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