The next hair brained idea, rear generator box

[WME]

I fail to see the point of most posts here. Its not like Dave is going to run out and BUY 2 Hondas. He already has 2 of them and plans to use what he has.

I'm sure if he finds out that one will reliably run his AC, he will only take 1, if not then he has enough power with 2 to run things.

[Totem]

WME - its a long standing honda argument in here..

I refuse to succumb to the honda cult; and those that have them refuse to see any other device as a valid alternative.

its all in good fun.

[zero]

Jeez - amazing what emotion Honda generator can evoke.    I personally have noting against Honda. My first motorcycle was a Honda 305 Super Hawk and likely the best bike I ever owned.  Honda made great  bikes but were so good, they eliminated the fun of constantly fixing like my British Royal Enfield Meteor Minor 500 or BSA  750 Rocket III offered.  Honda cars, on the other hand were awful at first.  Small engines? I worked for the first small engine and power equipment dealer in the USA to take on Honda.  They made fantastic replacements for Briggs & Stratton, Tecumseh, etc.   

Now though? No question that Honda still makes great stuff.  Nothing unique about that anymore though. Lots of "great stuff" out there; even some of the off-brand Chinese makes.

My main point about Honda was the 2000i that keeps getting discussed by some as if it is a 2000 watt generator and it is NOT.

And noise?   I think rural campgrounds should not allow any generators unless dedicated for generator users. Usually if someone fires one up - we pack up and leave. Last year - we were at a rural campground in the Michigan UP and for two days, were the only campers there.  Then a caravan of people came with three huge gooseneck campers and they decided to park right next to us (in a virtually empty 200 site campground).  All three had Honda generators.  They showed up 10 in the morning and ran them all day long.  We packed up that evening and left.  I can clearly attest that three make more noise then one.  I cannot offer a figure in the Ma Bell "DEC-A-Bell Lab" measure system.  Just know it was pretty annoying.  We go to remote campgrounds to hear nature sounds - not including Honda (or any other make) generators.  It's fine when alone, but I see it as just plain rude to fire one up when other campers are present.

[mtdave2]

For the record, my current AC works just fine with my Honda genoratiorS. One will not run it, so I carried two only if I needed ac. in Colorado that isn't often camping. When I stuffed that big behind Lexus motor in the toy, I chose to not hook up the AC for the cab, leaving me with no AC. We do travel to Texas some often, a place where ac is not really an option for most, so I had to figure out a way to run the coach ac while driving, thus settling on the ac box on the back, and the creation of this post.

Yep, all sorts of messed up logic and if you don't know lots of back details may sound stupid, or, well, maybe was! But here i set, the current problem at hand and getting great input on the project from you all, thanks. 

the honda thing, not really an issue in my mind. if you don't like them, ok fine, I have 2 so I am using them. end of story in my mind...

I will post the progress of the box because others may find it useful, and help them make one of their own. I will also do a write up of changing the ac to the mach one power saver and try to document the difference in performance, again to add to the wealth of knowledge (or dumbassery) of the board. I enjoy all the bs and fabricating, so why not?

[linda s]

Thank you Dave. From now on this discussion is about HIS project. Find your unicorn elsewhere

Linda S Moderator

[Totem]

16 hours ago, mtdave2 said:

For the record, my current AC works just fine with my Honda genoratiorS. One will not run it, so I carried two only if I needed ac. in Colorado that isn't often camping. When I stuffed that big behind Lexus motor in the toy, I chose to not hook up the AC for the cab, leaving me with no AC. We do travel to Texas some often, a place where ac is not really an option for most, so I had to figure out a way to run the coach ac while driving, thus settling on the ac box on the back, and the creation of this post.

Yep, all sorts of messed up logic and if you don't know lots of back details may sound stupid, or, well, maybe was! But here i set, the current problem at hand and getting great input on the project from you all, thanks. 

the honda thing, not really an issue in my mind. if you don't like them, ok fine, I have 2 so I am using them. end of story in my mind...

I will post the progress of the box because others may find it useful, and help them make one of their own. I will also do a write up of changing the ac to the mach one power saver and try to document the difference in performance, again to add to the wealth of knowledge (or dumbassery) of the board. I enjoy all the bs and fabricating, so why not?

I dont think skipping the vehicle AC was a bad decision. I have working AC in my sunrader thats fully charged and converted from the older refrigerant that it originally came with and to be honest its wimpy and probably more of a horsepower leech than its worth - and thats because the extreme heat of the back coach area just cannot be cooled by it; so basically i have to drop curtains for the truck AC to be of any use and when I do it definately seems to make the already slow 22re even more sluggish. So to be honest I like your rig and concept - good job! (as mentioned the honda stuff goes waaaaay back lol and is not personal.

 

[zero]

53 minutes ago, Totem said:

I dont think skipping the vehicle AC was a bad decision. I have working AC in my sunrader thats fully charged and converted from the older refrigerant that it originally came with and to be honest its wimpy and probably more of a horsepower leech than its worth 

Same with mine and my 1988 system still has the original R12 in it.  Toyota obviously only designed it to cool a little two-seat truck cab and nothing more.  In my case, I have no interest in any roof-top AC when parked. Our Fantastic fan does a great job and it is all we need when parked and camping.  But when driving - I'd love to have more AC.  I bet it would not be very difficult to tie in extra rear AC into the OEM Toyota system. Just like GM does with a Chevy Suburban, or my Dodge Grand Caravan does with the rear-air option.  Same size compressor is still used. Just some added lines and a 2nd evaporator and blower is added in the rear.  I wonder if anyone has ever tried it?

[zero]

Like this kit except I would not buy new.  I'm sure I could get the rear air setup at the junkyard for $50.

[Totem]

I'm assuming Dave didn't include the lexus AC because of lack of space rather than HP leeching though of course.. interesting idea jde on the rear AC off of same compressor idea. my dad once had a XLT ford aerostar "minivan" I use quotes because the xlt wasn't really very mini at all but huge and long.. it had 3 rows of 3 seat bench seats and a sliding side door and was so long it had an additional AC unit in the rear that could be controlled by rear passengers. I am assuming it had coolant lines running back there etc.

[zero]

1 minute ago, Totem said:

I'm assuming Dave didn't include the lexus AC because of lack of space rather than HP leeching though of course.. interesting idea jde on the rear AC off of same compressor idea. my dad once had a XLT ford aerostar "minivan" I use quotes because the xlt wasn't really very mini at all but huge and long.. it had 3 rows of 3 seat bench seats and a sliding side door and was so long it had an additional AC unit in the rear that could be controlled by rear passengers. I am assuming it had coolant lines running back there etc.

Yes, my in-laws also had an Aerostar. Nothing really "mini" about it.  4 liter V6 engine as I recall and also had rear-air.  Just some long lines running to a 2nd evaporator and blower.  Is there really any such thing as a "mini-van" anymore?   I use my Dodge Grand Caravans like pickup trucks.  I remember when Lee Iacocca first released them with a four-speed stick and a little four-cylinder engine and nothing "grand."  Toyota had a neat one once too.  No more - that I know of.

[Derek up North]

Not small in terms of a mini-van, but small in terms of a camper:-

 

http://www.gtrv.com/

[mtdave2]

nifty way to mount the generators to the box. seem to work well.

[mtdave2]

hooking up the exhaust, then the fuel lines. 

 

still need a good way to power the fans. I would love something with an amp level switch, would control the fan speeds with it. 

[mtdave2]

[jjrbus]

You come up with some good ideas.  How did you go about adding the pipe to the muffler?

All that weight on the rear and all that horsepower, wheelies should be easy. 

You need a new hood ornament.

 

[mtdave2]

lol! that would be awesome! Thanks for the compliment but I still think my ideas are usually hairbrained, or is that harebrained or?? 

The muffler on the honda generators are easy to remove, 4 bolts on the cover, 3 holding the muffler on. so I just removed the muffler and welded a 1/2  black pipe npt nipple to the exhaust port. was very easy!  I am still undecided if it will use the pipe idea or not. many places now require that you pipe the exhaust from generators above the roof of the rv (or so I have read). I feel it would remove a lot of heat from the box, put the noise of the exhaust headed upwards above the roof make things quieter...?? not sure but i will find out!  If i don't like it I will just weld up the holes and kick up the power on the fans if needed.

[jjrbus]

1 hour ago, mtdave2 said:

lol! that would be awesome! Thanks for the compliment but I still think my ideas are usually hairbrained, or is that harebrained or?? 

The muffler on the honda generators are easy to remove, 4 bolts on the cover, 3 holding the muffler on. so I just removed the muffler and welded a 1/2  black pipe npt nipple to the exhaust port. was very easy!  I am still undecided if it will use the pipe idea or not. many places now require that you pipe the exhaust from generators above the roof of the rv (or so I have read). I feel it would remove a lot of heat from the box, put the noise of the exhaust headed upwards above the roof make things quieter...?? not sure but i will find out!  If i don't like it I will just weld up the holes and kick up the power on the fans if needed.

Very fine line between Hair/harebrained ideas and pure genius.

Raising the exhaust is easy to do with 3/4" pvc pipe, opp's not 3/4   meant 3 or 4 inch. Don't try 2" that is too small and melts, (harebrained)!    I cannot find a picture of it in PVC but many posts on the internet about it. Same Same as this but with PVC. Most make it so it is put up and then taken down, most gensets exhaust on the side of the camper is the reason for that.    The pipe has a venturi effect.   Watch a rerun of McGiver and go to it.

 

[mtdave2]

Interesting. ..thanks

Since I am running out of time, I think I will finish the exhaust thing later. Get the box done and start installing the mach 1 ac unit. More fun!

[jjrbus]

5 hours ago, mtdave2 said:

Interesting. ..thanks

Since I am running out of time, I think I will finish the exhaust thing later. Get the box done and start installing the mach 1 ac unit. More fun!

Can you get some numbers, LRA, amp draw and such before and after?   

The exhaust can also be done in 2 pieces using a coupling.    Jim

[mtdave2]

well it took about 2 hours to put the mach 1 in, was a surprisingly simple job. I think the hardest thing was to slide the unit up to the roof.  here is the old one coming down, worked like a charm. 

I took a bunch of pictures with the idea of writing up a post, but really It is so simple I wonder if it is worth the effort. 

 

[jjrbus]

Very simple, hardly worth a write up, a picture is worth a 1000 words.  

However those of us that do it right make a little sled out of plywood with 2X2 or something on each side of the ladder, in  case it decides to wander.  If I do mine I will take a picture of proper way to do it.  

I just noticed, the bottom of the ladder is cut off in the pic, are you trying to hide that you did not secure the bottom of the ladder. And that extension cord, tripping hazard under the ladder, likely not on a GFI. OMG you are working under electrical wires!   Better delete the photo before OSHA or your insurance company sees it. 

[mtdave2]

lol geez OSHA can take a hike. I did use a plywood sled to pull the new one up. does that count?

Edited June 12, 2016 by mtdave2

[Totem]

" However those of us that do it right make a little sled out of plywood with 2X2 or something "

 

Actually those of us that do it right do not risk lifting the AC from the ground at all but rather walk it right onto the roof from an elevated platform

 

[mtdave2]

Did think about that too, still had to lift it onto the roof...so unless you have a cool seto up where that isn't the case....

Never realized there was one "right way" to do this. Did you get it one the roof w/o damaging it, the rv, or yourself? Call it good.

[WME]

Slide it up a ladder, a fork lift, 2 guys named Bubba. It doesn't matter, just don't break it.

[jjrbus]

Where will I find 2 guy's named Bubba?  

[Derek up North]

http://www.two-bubbas.com/

[Totem]

just curious, why did you remove the shroud off of the mach 1 ps?

[mtdave2]

10 hours ago, Totem said:

just curious, why did you remove the shroud off of the mach 1 ps?

? that photo is of the old ac. I did remove the shroud for the new mach 1 to make sure it was level when installing it. 

 

[Totem]

13 hours ago, mtdave2 said:

? that photo is of the old ac. I did remove the shroud for the new mach 1 to make sure it was level when installing it. 

 

how would it not be level? its installed on a gasket on the roof that cannot be adjusted; the mounting bolt crush tabs tell you when proper torque is reached.  technically speaking being level on the AC is not important at all and almost not good because the drainage from condensation is outside and pours off the roof. This is usually not a problem when driving as its whisked away by the wind but if stationary I always try to have an ever so slight angle on the grade of the lot I am on to allow the AC to drip down a corner off the roof - the one farthest away from the gangway door.

 

 

[jjrbus]

Still patiently waiting for the results of the mach 1 running on a single Honda?

[Lias]

On 6/11/2016 at 5:43 PM, mtdave2 said:

well it took about 2 hours to put the mach 1 in, was a surprisingly simple job. I think the hardest thing was to slide the unit up to the roof.  here is the old one coming down, worked like a charm. 

I took a bunch of pictures with the idea of writing up a post, but really It is so simple I wonder if it is worth the effort. 

Would very much appreciate the write up and pictures if you already have them  

For some of us (me) this might not be so simple...

[Totem]

15 hours ago, jjrbus said:

Still patiently waiting for the results of the mach 1 running on a single Honda?

you may be waiting until the stars burn out and the sand of time stop flowing... lol. depends on his altitude and outside temp.

[jjrbus]

What is the source of your information? 

 

[Totem]

Thats already been posted. hey it might work though... my cousins eu2000 started my mach3 standard edition in non econ mode. it overloaded after 15 minutes and shut off.

Edited June 16, 2016 by Totem