sherrie Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 After having my Head Gaskets replaced at a Toyota Dealership my Winnie was returned to me with Red Coolant in the Radiator. When it was still overheating I took it to a Mechanic to have a larger Radiator installed, The mechanic came out and asked if it okay with me if they use Green Coolant, I said sure makes no difference to me. After having the new radiator installed I took it for a test drive and it overheated worse than before the newer bigger radiator? I decided to drain the existing "Green Coolant" to try a product called "Water Wetter" by Red Line. In the process of draining the coolant I discovered that there was still "Red Coolant" in the system. Not only did the red and green not mix, they stayed separate. I got green coolant from the radiator and red coolant from the block. Now I wonder if this issue with the red and green coolant being used together may have been why I continued to overheat, or if the new Distilled Water and "Water Wetter" is really why I am now not overheating? Does anyone have experience that may lead to a conclusion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Red and green are not supposed to be compatible. I know that when I went from green to red that's when my radiator clogged up. I didn't flush thoroughly so they were mixed in there. Never had a heat problem before this so I think that was the cause Linda S Wow that supposedly top Toyota place used green. I'm very surprised at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherrie Posted October 18, 2015 Author Share Posted October 18, 2015 Red and green are not supposed to be compatible. I know that when I went from green to red that's when my radiator clogged up. I didn't flush thoroughly so they were mixed in there. Never had a heat problem before this so I think that was the cause Linda S Wow that supposedly top Toyota place used green. I'm very surprised at that. Thanks Linda, So that is at least one more person that thinks this may have been a contributing factor to my never ending overheating issue. The owner at Precision Performance told me that he did not like the Toyota Red coolant that it created a white buildup that was hard to remove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 If you mix it up will it stay mixed or does it separate out. Depending on how it mixes and unmixes there is a possibility that the red would not circulate and just stay in the block, the green would cool the heads. I don't know how powerful the water pump is and how it would mix things up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 Sherrie posted these pics of I assume coolant that she drained. This stuff was in her rig and pumped around and clearly didn't mix. I don't think this is a good thing http://toyotamotorhome.org/forums/index.php?app=gallery&image=3280 Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shibs Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 Sherrie, I can't agree with the owner at Precision Perf, toyo red coolant does not get the blame here. mixing coolants is a no no as mentioned already. mixing coolant can produce a jello like consistency. I buy PEAK GLOBAL lifetime either full strength or already mixed (from NAPA or menards) for my Japanese vehicles, (toyo, Honda) the water pump is a weak pump, drain and fill with distilled a few times and then fill with peak global. Congrats! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 Color alone is not a real good test but any thing with aluminum parts should have OAT or HOAT (globle) type antifreeze. They do not play well with older EG antifreeze's Most of the European and Asian stuff has been IAT for many years usually red. Toyota 's came with it I don't remember when they started using it but it's been a long time ago. It is not real easy to clean out a system because of pockets of old antifreeze in the engine block the best bet would be multiple flushing’s with a warm engine yes distilled water if you feel like buying it would be a bit better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherrie Posted October 18, 2015 Author Share Posted October 18, 2015 If you mix it up will it stay mixed or does it separate out. It separates out again Depending on how it mixes and unmixes there is a possibility that the red would not circulate and just stay in the block, the green would cool the heads. I don't know how powerful the water pump is and how it would mix things up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 Not only did the red and green not mix, they stayed separate. I got green coolant from the radiator and red coolant from the block. Now I wonder if this issue with the red and green coolant being used together may have been why I continued to overheat, I seriously doubt it has anything to do with any overheating. I doubt they don't mix too. The base ingredient of the coolants regardless of color is the same. The anti-corrosive packages differ and different color dyes are use so they can identified (to a degree). The dyes might of separated which is unlikely to effect cooling. Just the effectiveness and longevity of the coolant's additives. Did you check the concentration of the mix? If too much coolant of any color - the worse the cooling will be. Pure water cools best. 50% mix with coolant is worse but is needed for other reasons. More then 50% coolant and it really gets worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherrie Posted October 18, 2015 Author Share Posted October 18, 2015 After doing a successful 100 mile test drive with NO Overheating using the distilled water and Red Line Wetter Water. I will run this for a while and then decide on a coolant and never, never let a mechanic add coolant or any other thing (sealers) to my Winnies Coolant system. Since I used the garden hose to flush the system there would be no way to test the concentration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 No the base is not the same one is inorganic the other is organic acid mix. There are also two types of glycol one more toxic than the other. You can mix the antifreeze but it's not a good ideal because of the delusion between the two the corrosive protection drops. There is tremendous amount chemistry and history involved enough to burst your brain. As far as cooling yes plan water is the best, but in real life that does not work unless you have a locomotive that is never shut off or has 24/7 block heaters. Frankly I would chose the global type antifreeze it has every thing you need and less silicate (easier on pump seals). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjrbus Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 With several flush and fills your anti freeze has not been the same, the only thing that has been consistent has been the overheating. The color of the antifreeze is simply a dye and has nothing to do with makeup of coolant. A guess from the shade tree mechanic peanut gallery. You stated the Toy had a new radiator when purchased. Previous owner had a radiator leak and used a sealer, which did not work so replaced radiator. The sealer coagulated somewhere in the system and caused a blockage or restriction. Your final draining and refilling cleared up the restriction or possibly the Wetter water affected the clog. Quote I have also seen a few cases where people have added multiple cans of radiator stop leak to a vehicle. In one case it ruined the radiator and the engine had to be disassembled to remove the hardened stop leak from the engine block cooling passages. Thinking back on this (Monte Carlo) it was actually the hardest engine overheating I ever diagnosed. http://www.certifiedmastertech.com/wordpress/2011/05/13/engine-overheating-common-causes/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 No the base is not the same one is inorganic the other is organic acid mix. What info are you citing???? I've read the data sheets on many brands and colors of coolants. The green "Dexcool" has an ethylene glycol base at approx. 95%. So does the red coolant from Toyota and so does the orange stuff from other companies. All mentioned have the exact same bases. The differences are in the dyes and the anti-corrosives or anti-caviation additives. Ethylene Glycol is Ethylene Glycol. If you claim to know an exception -please state exactly what it is. The "organic acids" you mention are additives and make up a very small fraction of coolants like Dexcool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Just re-read some of the MSDS info. Toyota "red" coolant is 96% ethylene glycol. GM Dexcool "red" is also 96% ethylene glycol. Prestone "green" antifreeze is 95% ethylene glycol. Zerex "green" is 95% ethylene glycol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shibs Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 glycol is the base, if you look at the MSDS you will see that it does not match exactly, I think I saw a benzene ring in one. Anyway spent way too much time in Chem lab in college, could have declared major in it, gives me headache now. I look for 2eha free coolant for aluminum toyo/honda zerex Asian Peak global lifetime (my pick), you can get this at sams club, napa in concentrate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 I read the MSDS on all the coolants I mentioned. Bases are exactly the same. Peak "Global Lifetime" coolant is 97% ethelyne glycol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherrie Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 With several flush and fills your anti freeze has not been the same, the only thing that has been consistent has been the overheating. The color of the antifreeze is simply a dye and has nothing to do with makeup of coolant. A guess from the shade tree mechanic peanut gallery. You stated the Toy had a new radiator when purchased. Previous owner had a radiator leak and used a sealer, which did not work so replaced radiator. The sealer coagulated somewhere in the system and caused a blockage or restriction. Your final draining and refilling cleared up the restriction or possibly the Wetter water affected the clog. Quote I have also seen a few cases where people have added multiple cans of radiator stop leak to a vehicle. In one case it ruined the radiator and the engine had to be disassembled to remove the hardened stop leak from the engine block cooling passages. Thinking back on this (Monte Carlo) it was actually the hardest engine overheating I ever diagnosed. http://www.certifiedmastertech.com/wordpress/2011/05/13/engine-overheating-common-causes/ I hope that if this is the case (clogged due to sealer additive) that the multiple flushing and the use of the wetter water has dissolved it. We have also had a Block Cleaner used when we took it in to have the Toyota thermostat installed. I think I will put a thousand or so miles on it with the distilled water and wetter water, Then Flush, Flush, Flush - I will Flush with hot water. Then I will try distilled water, wetter water and 20% coolant. I will let everyone know what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 I read the MSDS on all the coolants I mentioned. Bases are exactly the same. Peak "Global Lifetime" coolant is 97% ethelyne glycol. One is ethylene the other is polypropylene they are both glycol’s but different chemistry. One is ethane the other is made from propane. The colors are not good indicators as to what the compounds are. The mixes of other additives adds even more confusion the glycol's only keep it from freezing nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 I'd think that Toyota would cover their backsides by warning owners about problems mixing their antifreeze with others if there was a problem. But it seems they don't. http://s5.photobucket.com/user/Hanzbucket/media/Tacoma/Tacoma%20Service/CoolantRear.jpg.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 One is ethylene the other is polypropylene they are both glycol’s but different chemistry. One is ethane the other is made from propane. The colors are not good indicators as to what the compounds are. The mixes of other additives adds even more confusion the glycol's only keep it from freezing nothing more. You keep expressing disagreement but do not cite any hard facts that I can perceive. Just saying it over and over does not add to the truth-value. Again - I listed specific types of antifreeze and their chemical make-ups as shown on MSDS datasheets. All the ones I mentioned show ethylene glycol as the primary "base" ingredient at 85-97%. NOT polypropylene. That includes Toyota "long life" O.A.T. type that is 87%-95% ethylene glycol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Perhaps a bit of confusion with 'propylene glycol' as used in 'Peak Sierra'. http://www.peakauto.com/products/antifreeze-coolants/automotive/sierra/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 I'm aware of the "safer" less-toxic coolants like Sierra. It has nothing to do with O.A.T. type additives versus conventional, or green versus orange versus red. That was the focus of my posts and also the reason why I used specifics. Sellers of coolant can dye them any color they want it basically tells us nothing. I suspect most repair places are very hesitant to use something like that Sierra coolant because it gives a false reading when checked for freeze-point with a standard ball-checker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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