Why Do Hobos Drive Rvs?

[MontanaChinook]

It's been my experience that people living out of their campers live in rvs, not pull-behind campers (including myself). Why is this? What's the benefit?

I'm starting to think about my near future, probably the next decade, and thinking of the lifestyle I'll want, and it might involve quite a bit of having to live real cheap, so a camper is great. But my Chinook is just too small for me to make a true lifestyle out of this.

I've started figuring, over the past couple years, that an 18' Sunrader would be perfect. But the more I think, and actually seriously look, the 21' models seem more common, AND less expensive. And I'll tell you, though I really don't like the idea of driving and owning such a large rv, the space would be really, really nice. I mean I'd be living out of it for stretches of time, not camping in it, so much.

I've come close...I mean I'm actually calling and emailing people with them for sale, checking my back account, etc., looking to make it happen.

Then the thought hits me...why not a 4x4 Toyota truck and a pull-behind? That way when I do end up in a town, possibly working, with a place to stay (especially in the winter), I have a 4wd vehicle. Rather than a 2wd rv being my only vehicle. And suddenly it all just makes so much more sense.

What I'm afraid of is that there's some giant blind spot in my head of "THIS is why that wouldn't work for you". But I can't come up with anything. I mean I love rvs, and Sunraders and Chinooks. But for a guy who will be moving around a bit, not wanting to pay rent, but sometimes having housing and needing to get around to get groceries and all that stuff (especially in the winter), doesn't that make much more sense?

There's no road, down in the desert where I love spending so much time, which I wouldn't be able to get down in a 4wd Toyota with a small pull-behind, but that I could get down with the Chinook. So I could get to all the same places.

It makes sneaky urban camping a bit more tough, but probably not really...because again, everyone seems to understand that the guy living out of his camper down the street is in an RV, not a pull behind. So I actually think I'd attract less attention...maybe (?)

Any thoughts? I think if the right 18' Sunrader at the right price came along I'd still get it, but I'm leaning more towards a truck and trailer....Crazy

[linda s]

It all comes down to where are you going to leave the trailer. You have your whole life in there if

your living in it and you really can't just leave them on the street. I have seen stolen trailer ads on craigslist tons of times. An expensive Airstream not long ago. A friends husbands tool trailer got

stolen off the street when he left it at a job with thousands of dollars worth of tools. Everything he needed to work.

I'm living in my 18ft Sunrader right now while I await my daughters new baby. Really

quite comfortable. Would be downright roomy if I wasn't claustrophobic and could sleep in the overhead bed. I sleep in the dinette area so no dinette for me but here I can eat in the house. When camping I

usually eat outside. I used to just make the bed into one every night but that got old real fast.

Linda S

[TheChief]

There are pluses and minuses to both. When I was growing up, my dad owned a full-size motorhome and I had always said that I would never own a pull trailer camper because I loved the ability to be able to walk from the passenger seat back to the kitchen, bathroom, or bedroom and we could tow a small jeep so we had wheels to zip around town when we had hooked up the camper. Now that I have a Toyotahome, I technically could squeeze from the front seat to the back, but it would be easier to pull over, get out through the cab door, walk outside, and enter through the coach door. That, plus the fact that my Toy can't tow a car, means that I'm stuck driving the RV as my primary means of conveyance OR my wife has to follow me in her car. That isn't too big of an inconvenience for short, weekend trips, but might be a hassle on longer trips or long duration stays. Plus, it is inconvenient to have to unhook my electric, water, sewer, and cable TV lines every time I want to drive into town to grab something to eat. If I was going to be living in my camper, I would prefer to get a bigger motorhome or get a truck and pull trailer.

I love my little Dolphin, and hats off to you guys who are able to do really long duration stays in them, but I can definitely see the value in getting a pickup and a pull-behind if you might be using your camper to live and work in. Linda is right, though, trailers are easier to steal than motorized RV's, so if you're keeping all of your worldly possessions in there, I would want to be parked someplace that is relatively secure.

If you do choose to stay with a motorized RV, I would recommend going with the 21 footer. From I driving standpoint, 21' is only marginally bigger than 18', but it gives you a lot more interior and/or storage space.

[MontanaChinook]

Thanks a lot for those replies. Really good points in both.

A trailer is pretty easy to lock up though, so it can't be slolen so easy, right? Can't you lock the hitch? Locks can be cut, but still...I mean I broke into my chinook with a pen knife one day when I locked myself out...anything is going to be more secure than it. But it's true that I'm never too far away from the rv, where I could foreseably be away from a pull behind for a day or two or more.

The Chinook is very un-secure, though.

None of this is an argument it's just a response to what people write, so I can have a good discussion on the finer points of both, for my particular circumstances. Feel free to shoot down my ideas with any facts or opinions you have, and I'll do the same to you

Linda's setup works well for her, but I will be travelling a bit. I live where there is snow in the winter. I canNOT drive my Chinook around, or any RV, in a Montana winter. I just won't do it. So I'm stuck. Last winter and this summer I had to buy vehicles. A cheap Mazda to get me around last winter in MN. This summer I bought back the Subaru I used to own and sold to a friend, so I could drive the 1hr of dirt road I need to drive to get to pavement. It's a 2 hour drive for me right now to buy groceries. Doing that in the Chinook, or a Sunrader...man that would suck.

So far, in my mind, there is nothing I could do with the Chinook that I can't do with a trailer (other than, as Cheif says, climbing from the driver seat to the coach, which I actually do all the time, and I'd really miss that). But there is a ton I could do with a trailer and truck that I can't do with the Chinook.

The only drawbacks I see are:

the advantage of being able to drive away from my home does leave my home more vulnerable.

I have to pull a trailer.

I cannot walk straight from the driver seat to the coach without going outside.

Any others?

[Vanman]

Around here they steal RV's too.

I was worried about leaving my OB boat( 78 Tahiti Tiger Shark) & trailer alone while we were out at store or eating. There are a varity of ways to secure a towable trailer can make it real hard to steal, I did several and never had a problem, it's mostly showing potential thieves how hard and time consuming it's gonna be so they steal somthing easier.

Just like securing a house, except with a house neighborhood makes some of the deterrent.

[MontanaChinook]

Thanks.

Just another response because I don't want to make it seem like my mind is made up and I'll just shoot down any thought contrary to what I'm thinking.

I just suddenly have a lot of good reasons, specific to my current lifestyle, that say to me "truck and trailer". But as I'm thinking that, I'm in a fairly serious discussion with this guy http://portland.craigslist.org/grg/rvs/5216003249.html

I want to hear reasons that might talk me out of it, if they exist. I definitely want to weigh both sides. But the idea of kind of "having it all"...having my home on wheels, but being able to "detach" when I get to town and be a normal person sounds great to me. I've driven the Chinook around different towns enough that, while I kind of like the attention, the thought of having a normal vehicle and not drawing so much attention sounds really nice.

Anyway, if you have good ideas for why an rv is better, keep them coming.

Thanks

[jjrbus]

It's been my experience that people living out of their campers live in rvs, not pull-behind campers (including myself). Why is this? What's the benefit?

When deciding on this I wanted a large home on wheels. Takes a pretty serious vehicle to tow a large trailer and I did not want a gas hog for a daily driver.

I had a 35 foot motorhome and towed a Ford Windstar for all the local excursions and even some trips. The van did kind of end up like a mobile shed at times. No best way or right or wrong in this, personal choice....Don't like it after a while can always go the other way. Jim

[zero]

It's been my experience that people living out of their campers live in rvs, not pull-behind campers (including myself). Why is this? What's the benefit?

One vehicle, one registration instead of two? Ask this guy about HIS Chinook.

[MontanaChinook]

Well, I don't consider a trailer a vehicle, I guess. And in Montana anyways, you can just permanently register a trailer. So one time and you're done.

A truck and trailer will cost me slightly more upfront. But then I won't have to deal with buying and selling cars for the seasons that I settle down in places.

I'm still talking with one 18' Sunrader seller and one 21' seller. Just don't want to spend the money before I decide which way I really want to go...

Then figure out what I can get for the Chinook, since it'll be getting sold either way.

[Back East Don]

In the end, everyone decides what works for them. My wife has suggested a trailer with the reasoning that we can set it up at a camp site and leave it while not having to hassle with disconnecting everything and stowing and securing everything down to the coffee pot just to go somewhere. If not for my fondness for on beach camping, we would have pulled the trigger on a trailer. I've shopped and seems to be plenty of bargains out there.

We have friends who have a seasonal camp site. They spend the summers at the same place every year. Not our style of camping but once I pull out of the corporate world, that might change as we will be looking for a cheap way to spend some months either here in New England or winters in Florida. Point is you have to evaluate your particular circumstances and needs and make the decision that is right for you.

As to Hobo, I would prefer to think of you as a nomad. Different in many ways.

[Totem]

perhaps you are thinking backwards and should instead get a real RV; one that can tow a pig (small vehicle.) at that point you have best of all worlds. Gas will be super cheap for the long term; the arabs are busy maxing out production to run new US oil companies into chapter 11 and that will take time. I have seen some nice super huge RVs lately that are like everything a trailer should be huge spacious lots of room drive in, park, disconnect pig, done.

the next thing you could invest in is going to a shelter and picking yourself up a guard dog. I'd recommend something Rottweiler or shepherd based. my insurance company actually gives me a discount for GSD breed; statistically they reduce theft claims by 60%.

Boom, so there you have it. full time living in a chinook? maybe if someone was alone and surfed for a living... but for me it would have to be a real full sized RV. need your pig to be a 4x4? can always pick up a nice used Suzuki. small,l 4x4 and tow great.

[kgibson4]

A couple of considerations:

Are you comfortable with backing a trailer? Of course for most people with practice they get better at it, but others, not so much. I'm OK with it but I'd much rather back a single vehicle. Fifth wheels are easier to back and a small fifth wheel(is there such a thing?) is what I would shoot for if I were changing to a towed RV.

If you get a trailer that has more room you need to consider how big that will be and size your tow vehicle accordingly. I see some rigs on the road that make me want to give them a wide berth. Not that you would make that mistake, just that size of the tow vehicle is important.

[Totem]

good point kgibson, also in many states a 5th wheel is the only trailer that you may still tow something else behind; such as a small boat...

[MontanaChinook]

Thanks everyone. Yeah, my particular circumstances are calling for a truck with a trailer, it seems. I lose the cool factor of the old classic tiny rv, but I'm pretty sick of being cool, to tell you the truth.

I can deal with a trailer. I can back them, though I'm more in the camp of "do everything possible to not have to back it" for now, since I just don't have much experience yet. With experience, I'd be fine, though I'd still try to set up the situation so I could pull through rather than have to back.

I don't really want two vehicles, which I'd get with a giant rv and a car behind it. Maintenence x2 for everything. So in my mind anyways, not the best of both worlds. Aside from that, my world view and image of myself just won't allow it. I do my best not to judge gigantic rv owner. To each thier own. But it's not for me.

My friend is selling a 1998 V6 4x4 Tacoma; 2nd owner, and I've know both owners and the truck since it was brand new. That and a under-20'-trailer is what I'm thinking right now.

One thing I remember noticing at the RV show I went to over the winter was that rvs are, in general, cramped. Even ones bigger than my Chinook by a lot felt just stuffed full of too much stuff, with poor layouts. The few camp trailers I walked into were somehow very different. Very roomy and homey. Not sure why. But I feel I can get a 17-20' pull behind that feels as spacious as a 21' Sunrader, and be able to drive my truck away from it.

I drive in the winter, and I also drive down crazy mountain and desert roads. It feels like so much more freedom to be able to drive from my campsite way out in the desert, to a trailhead for a hike, instead of being stuck just hiking from the front door of my rv every day. I sometimes park the Chinook for 5 days at a time, 30 miles down a dirt road. Would be cool to be able to jump in the truck and explore a bit.

We'll see. I'm not done deciding yet. There seems to be something more legitimate about doing business with a person with a nice truck and camp trailer, rather than a guy living out of his rv, somehow. So I'll admit that image comes into this a little bit.

Someday when I have a house and just take weekend camp trips or week long trips, I'll probably be looking for a little rv again. But at least as of right now, I'm leaning pretty far toward the truck/trailer combo. I think it just fits my current lifestyle much better.

Yes, Nomad is more like it, but like JDs photos, I've also seen quite a few straight up homeless people living in rvs. But not so much trailers. I guess not everyone has a truck which can pull a trailer, as was mentioned. But there's something about an rv...summer road trips, cross-country trips...people always think RV, not pull trailer, for whatever reason.

[WME]

Are you going to be a HOBO or a traveling worker bee?

[FredNewell]

hobo (from online urban dictionary)

a hobo is an itinerant worker, a career which sprang up during the depression. A hobo, unlike a bum or a tramp, is more than willing to work, but mostly for a short duration, as their main impetus is travel, the love of the journey above the actual destination. A bum is stationary, feeding off of those unfortunate enough to cross his path; a hobo merely travels from town to town, finding work when he can, but only for the sake of financing his next adventure. NEVER call a hobo a bum...they'll kick your sorry no-bo a**!

"When I first started hobo'in,

I took a freight train to be my friend

-John Lee Hooker

[jjrbus]

When I retired and full timed I enjoyed telling people I was homeless and unemployed.

[MontanaChinook]

Yeah I'm just using terms generically, though I like that definition. I just mean it seems like most people living out of their campers are living in RVs, rather than trailers.

Two options I'm currently looking at are contract field work, so being my own business, taking contracts for field data collection for scientific research and projects, or a 4-5 year, 9 month a year position with state government doing streamflow measurements, rancher relations and fish studies. Benefits of full time work with a seasonal lifestyle and only a 5 year commitment. That work would be in a very rural Montana valley, so to save money I could probably find a free place to park a camper or RV to live out of for the summer. Then possibly head south for the winters, or find a cheap place to rent in Montana for the winter.

Then take things from there, as I'm sure either of those will lead to more contacts and either job offers or ideas of what sorts of work to go after.

[WME]

Ok

Hobo, minimum work. Get a 21 ft Sunrader, they arent that much bigger and are cheaper than most 18 ft. Conserve your capital.

Worker Bee (WB). Truck and trailer. A pu with a camper shell gives you a way to seperate wb stuff from house stuff.

Random thoughts

Truck trailer 2x plates and insurance

At work our Chevy 4wd Burbs average 20 mpg ar 65 mph, so don,t limit yourself to Toys.

My 26 ft class A gets the same mpg as your Nookie when parked. Like how much are you going to be driving?

A 19 ft fifth wheel is WAY bigget than any Toy

For full nomad life style a pu with a simple popup camper and a trailer would let you do short trips in style and still have a home base

[fred heath]

Actually, you have decided.

Your going with the truck/trailer combination.

Good luck. I hope it works for you.

[FredNewell]

'Just an opinion, but many would benefit from doing the hobo thing at least once in their life... or something similar. It gives perspective. You find out how much you really do or don't need to live well.

[Back East Don]

I previously was traveling about 80% for work only recently slowing that down. I always traveled some but once the kids were out of high school, I took it as an opportunity to exercise my wanderlust. When I traveled with a team, there was a lot of camaraderie and so life on the road was far less lonely. While I don't mind solitary time by myself some cities are soul crushing (I'm talking to you NY). This is while staying at nice hotels and all expenses paid. It takes a certain kind and your life has to be in the right place. Some of the young guys I've trained and worked with suddenly have issues with travel once in a serious relationship or start having kids. Others really take to travel and some have taken contract work where they are assigned a company for a year at a time at a different place every year. I was late to travel. Wish I had done more when I was younger but I did some before I got married. Despite the urban dictionary definition, the word hobo had a negative social connotation. Not making judgements. My favorite hobo is Seasick Steve.

[zero]

Well, I don't consider a trailer a vehicle, I guess. And in Montana anyways, you can just permanently register a trailer.

Same here in Michigan. But there are many states like New York that require a registration for any trailer that must get renewed every year, along with a motor-vehicle inspection that must be done on the trailer every year. Cost money and is royal pain-in-the-a*s. In Michigan - no motor-vehicle inspection for anything - cars, trucks, or trailers and trailers get registered once and you are done for life.

[fred heath]

Kids are grown. 2 ex wife's, my time.

Never felt as carefree as I do now. This is my time. Ham&bean supper, any town USA sounds good to me.

Call me a "hobo". :-)

[zero]

"Then Came Bronson" circa 1969-70 used to be my favorite TV show. THAT was the sort of "homeless" person I always wished to be. Problem with living that way is - one has to more-or-less freeload in certain ways. I'd rather own a lot of my own land and have a natural barrier between me and people I don't wish to see.

[fred heath]

JD,

I'm a disabled vet. I have my pension, free medical benefits for life.

Nothing has changed.

This is my time. Why do I want to be tied down to 1000 acres in east oscoch anywhere USA?

Tomorrow I can leave for wherever, but I'm still self sufficient.

Cambodia, 1974-75 MEDTEC. Paid my dues.

[MontanaChinook]

Actually, you have decided.

Your going with the truck/trailer combination.

Good luck. I hope it works for you.

While I see that with how I've been talking here, you would come to that conclusion: no. I haven't decided until I've decided. My mind just kind of works this way. I get on a tangent, talk a lot about it, bounce the idea off of people, then let it settle for a while and see how their input compares to what I want and have thought. And though I did feel a bit prickly at first about someone telling me what I've decided...I'm over it You're right to make that statement based on what I've posted, and depending on how I read your post, it's actually pretty nice and supportive, so that's how I'll take it.

Yes, so far, I see no stand out reasons why a truck/trailer would be the wrong choice for me. So for the sake of discussion, yes, at this point that's where my head is. I'm still open to ideas of why it wouldn't be right. But all the good ideas against it that I've heard are more personal-choice, personal circumstance kind of stuff.

However until I make an arrangement with someone to buy something, nothing is decided. I've talked to my friend with the truck, and a person with a 21' Sunrader so far today, and neither of them got a yes or no answer from me.

A trailer will be annoying. Yes.

I've considered an American made vehicle. More power with still good (possibly better) gas mileage, probably half the price with half the miles. But when it comes down to it, the only truck I really trust to get me anywhere in this country or beyond, with practically no worries, is a Toyota truck. Especially one whose history I've known and been involved with since it rolled off the showroom floor.

My traveling will actually be pretty tame. I'm pretty ready to settle down. Just on my own terms. I hope to do all my work in Montana, and be fairly stationary for the summer season. Caretaking a cabin up in the mountains for the winter would be ideal. Even better than heading south.

For now I just don't care for rent or a mortgage. So that'll mean moving around a bit, but I'll keep it a minimum, then hopefully some somewhat small number of years I'll be able to afford a small amount of acreage in the mountains somewhere, put up a yurt, then start building a house Yep, I'm that guy.

[zero]

JD,

I'm a disabled vet. I have my pension, free medical benefits for life.

Nothing has changed.

This is my time. Why do I want to be tied down to 1000 acres in east oscoch anywhere USA?

Tomorrow I can leave for wherever, but I'm still self sufficient.

Cambodia, 1974-75 MEDTEC. Paid my dues.

Yes, if I didn't have a sort of "new" wife and kid - I might live that way. I suspect though I'd wind up spending too much time in the bar-room. I was friends with a guy that lived in his boat down in the Florida Keys and I kind of envied his lifestyle. He could pull up to one of several islands (keys) and use the showers and baths for free. When you arrive on a boat, no one knows if your are a resident camper of not. I had four kids with my first marriage. Now have a new wife of 20 years, one new kid and seems I'll be dead before I'm done raising children. No regrets - I really like my present wife which is a huge advantage when being married. Hey, to "each his own."

[fred heath]

Ggo for it brother. Do it.

[Totem]

Not to throw yet another out of the box solution, but one time when camping in Maine I had a guy roll up next to me with a MASSIVE bed camper in a longbed ford f250.

Now this was no ordinary truck bed camper; it had 2 slide outs on port and aft sides, full bathroom, shower, tanks the works just like my 21 foot sunrader. I had a beer with the guy and he said he loved it, invited me in. I was immediately thinking man this is going to be small... it was LARGER than my sunrader inside. the bed of the truck was like the open floor hallway space, there was a nice accordion staircase that came down, the whole thing could rise up on 4 posts and he could leave it.

Best part for him... NO registration needed for the camper; and he had 4x4 on the f250. I don't care how bad behind a truck you get, you are towing a 20 foot rig in Montana you will get stuck in snow. Not so much when on all 4s only.

[zero]

. NO registration needed for the camper; and he had 4x4 on the f250. I don't care how bad behind a truck you get, you are towing a 20 foot rig in Montana you will get stuck in snow. Not so much when on all 4s only.

Biggest drawback to the truck-camper is not being allowed to have passengers in it (in many states). We've got two of them. My Dodge-Cummins got 17 MPG for a trip average going to Kentucky and back. That's pretty amazing considering we were doing 65-75 MPH for much of the trip. That's my Jayco camper with the pop-up roof. My fixed-roof Coachmen gets around 13.5 average when on my F250 diesel. I met some campers with a near new Toyota Tacoma with a stripped down truck camper. No heat, no bath, propane. Almost no -nothing. They only got 15 MPG with it with is pretty poor. They had a V6. When truck campers first got popular in the 70s - many states were giving users tickets because they required their own license plates and registration. Seems that all got ironed out. When I took my Dodge with camper on it to Maine to pick up a Chinook motorhome - we got a trip average of 13 MPG. That is amazing considering all the steep back roads we took in Vermont. Trailer weighs 3800 lbs. empty. Chinook (crammed with parts) probably weighed 4000 lbs. So we had nearly 16,000 lbs. in all .

[Totem]

I Think the OP is alone, but if not agreed, and is why I don't have one on my dodge. my two girls CONSTANTLY use the crapper while we are en route.

[MontanaChinook]

Yes, I will be solo, with my dog, 90% of the time.

I don't plan to be pulling the camper in the snow. Truck campers are nice, but not large enough, considering the size truck I want. A pre-2005 Tacoma just won't hold a large enough camper for me. It solves the 4x4 problem, but not the size problem. The only time I'd be pulling the trailer in snow is getting out of Montana, on I-15, in November to head down south. If the roads are bad enough to get stuck, I'll just wait a few hours until they plow them. If I spend winters in Montana it'll be in a house, cabin or yurt somewhere, with the camper either at a friends or in storage.

My friends have pre-'05 Tundras, closer to the size of the T100s, with pop-up truck bed campers. Really nice, really convenient, can go pretty much anywhere the truck would be able to go without the camper in them. But to live in for months at a time? Nope. My Chinook still felt a little roomier. I'm very particular about what I feel comfy in. Many campers and RVs just don't feel like home to me, and I need to feel at home in my home. It takes the right layout and feeling. And I'm not about to buy a Tundra, or any full size truck. You can say all you want about fuel economy in larger trucks, and you're right, but I just don't want that much truck. T100s are too big for me, though I could probably get used to it. I don't trust Fords. Or Chevys. I've driven them all; Ford, Chevy and Dodge for work, and though I like things about each of them, and like Chevy/GMC the most, I still don't feel totally comfortable driving all over the country and miles down dirt roads in them. I'm just perfectly comfy and happy in nothing bigger than a Tacoma.

If I get the state job, which would mean regular employment and consistent paychecks for the next 4-5 years, I'll likely be going with the Tacoma and a 17' Scamp or Casita or something similar. An Oliver would be awesome...but we're getting into amounts of money that I could actually buy a few acres of land with. I think with the truck and camper I could be in the $10-12k range. Where a Surander that didn't need to be gutted would cost me nearly $10k, and probably still need some work.

Not that money has really been much of a part of this discussion. But it's obviously something I'm thinking about.

[Totem]

I love scamps and casitas, got to see 6 of them at wheatland. Something about that mork from ork egg style. Love em.

what about a mid to small airstream?

[FredNewell]

Here's a suggestion.

Bluebird Wanderlodge pre-1980 that is not air suspension but springs. Forward Control (front engine) diesel. They are very well insulated and solid all-steel construction. No wood to rot. They are built for comfort and can pull a load. They are a well kept secret.

Way different than a Toyota mh, but you ought to surf the net to get acquainted with them.

Pre-1980 because they get fancier as the years get newer, and more complex mechanically and electrically.

Spring suspension for dirt roads - anywhere a school bus could go.

7-8 mpg diesel.

Lend themselves to extended boondocking if set up right.

55-60 mph on hwy, slow up mountains.

Very classy, like a vintage airstream.

Stay away from a big project, find one that is in excellent condition. They've probably depreciated about as far as they will go.