WME Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 More peanut gallery comments Are you sure your electric fan is turning in the correct direction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjrbus Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Sorry to hear, we were hoping your issues were over. You keep referring to overheating. When I hear overheat I think steam coming out from under the hood, things boiling and bubbling. Does the gauge show it is running warm as in your picture or if you keep driving will the temperature continue to rise until the boil over point? Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shibs Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 1. If MH (motor home) was running at hwy speeds when it overheated, the fan has nothing to do with it 2. if MH was running at hwy speeds when it overheated you probably have 1 of the following: a. inadequate flow b. air in the system (I think you have beaten this one to death already) Inadequate flow: 1. Take out the thermostat and run without it to test 2. Any chance you had them take pics of the block with the head off? how do the ports look? Anyone know if 3vzfe uses an oil cooler for the 90 chassis here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjrbus Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Her water pump picture showed the tube for the oil cooler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 If at hwy speeds and you start up a hill and the engine warms up. The fan would cut in and cool the rad and coolant down all good. IF the fan was wired backwards it would rotate the wrong way and stall the airflow through the rad. Above scenario is very unlikely, but she has eliminated all the normal stuff. So its time for the weird stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherrie Posted October 6, 2015 Author Share Posted October 6, 2015 More peanut gallery comments Are you sure your electric fan is turning in the correct direction? Yes, I have had it checked by 3 different mechanics. It is sucking air through the radiator. It works great - when it is on you can watch the temp gauge go down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherrie Posted October 6, 2015 Author Share Posted October 6, 2015 On the last couple of drive tests - It only overheated when going up a hill, with the Air Conditioning on. Driving around town, or on the highway - flat, no matter what the speed, Air On or not on, It does not run hot. It only overheats going up a hill with the Air Conditioning on. Temp does rise going up a hill with-out the air on, but just a little. I tried to get pictures when the heads were off - but no luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 OK on fan. 2 more ideas. 1. install a manual override switch on the fan so you can turn it on for sure when going up hill. 2. Same idea but different, wire the fan relay to the AC compressor hot lead. Then when ever the AC is on so is the fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjrbus Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Has anyone actually verified the temperature of the coolant other than looking at the gauge and saying it is running hot? Verifying Engine Operating Temperature Technicians need to verify engine operating temperature whenever the customer complains about an overheating issue, an underheating issue such as inadequate heat from the heater, or poor fuel economy. Verifying the operating temperature involves using an infrared noncontact temperature gun to check whether the on-vehicle temperature indicators, such as the temperature gauge and coolant temperature sensor, are operating accurately. The temperature gun, as described earlier, measures the amount of heat energy (temperature) of an object. Just realize that some objects do not conduct heat as well as others; if you can point the temperature gun at a metal component, it will produce a more accurate reading. If pointed toward the engine’s thermostat housing (or next to it), with the engine fully warmed up, a close approximation of the engine’s operating temperature can be measured and compared to the specifications. Note that a vehicle with an electric fan will usually have two listed temperatures—one temperature at which the fan should turn on and another temperature at which it should turn off. Anywhere between those temperatures is the operating temperature in this situation. If the operating temperature is correct, verify that the vehicle’s temperature gauge is reading accurately. Also, use a scan tool and compare the reading from the coolant temperature sensor to the temperature gun reading to verify that the PCM is receiving the correct temperature signal. To verify the engine operating temperature, follow the steps in skill Drill 46-2: 1 If the vehicle is in for an overheating concern, verify that the coolant level is correct before starting the engine. If the coolant is low, check for the presence of a leak before measuring the operating temperature. Start the engine and allow it to reach full operational temperature, monitoring the temperature along the way in case it starts to overheat. 2 Using an infrared temperature gun, test the temperature of the engine near the location of the thermostat or coolant temperature sensor. Compare to specifications. 3 Using a scan tool, retrieve the engine coolant temperature sensor temperature reading. 4 Be aware that there will be some temperature difference because the temperature sensor is sitting in the coolant and the temperature gun is measuring the surface temperature near the sensor. 5 Compare the results from the temperature gun, the coolant temperature sensor, and the vehicle’s temperature gauge; this gives you a good idea of the engine’s operating temperature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherrie Posted October 6, 2015 Author Share Posted October 6, 2015 OK on fan. 2 more ideas. 1. install a manual override switch on the fan so you can turn it on for sure when going up hill. 2. Same idea but different, wire the fan relay to the AC compressor hot lead. Then when ever the AC is on so is the fan There is a wire connected to the AC wiring and the fan is always on when the AC is on. This Fan came with this wiring connected to the AC wiring as part of the instructions. When I want to show a mechanic that the fan is blowing in the correct direction I turn the AC on - so the fan comes on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherrie Posted October 6, 2015 Author Share Posted October 6, 2015 Has anyone actually verified the temperature of the coolant other than looking at the gauge and saying it is running hot? Verifying Engine Operating Temperature Technicians need to verify engine operating temperature whenever the customer complains about an overheating issue, an underheating issue such as inadequate heat from the heater, or poor fuel economy. Verifying the operating temperature involves using an infrared noncontact temperature gun to check whether the on-vehicle temperature indicators, such as the temperature gauge and coolant temperature sensor, are operating accurately. The temperature gun, as described earlier, measures the amount of heat energy (temperature) of an object. Just realize that some objects do not conduct heat as well as others; if you can point the temperature gun at a metal component, it will produce a more accurate reading. If pointed toward the engine’s thermostat housing (or next to it), with the engine fully warmed up, a close approximation of the engine’s operating temperature can be measured and compared to the specifications. Note that a vehicle with an electric fan will usually have two listed temperatures—one temperature at which the fan should turn on and another temperature at which it should turn off. Anywhere between those temperatures is the operating temperature in this situation. If the operating temperature is correct, verify that the vehicle’s temperature gauge is reading accurately. Also, use a scan tool and compare the reading from the coolant temperature sensor to the temperature gun reading to verify that the PCM is receiving the correct temperature signal. To verify the engine operating temperature, follow the steps in skill Drill 46-2: 1 If the vehicle is in for an overheating concern, verify that the coolant level is correct before starting the engine. If the coolant is low, check for the presence of a leak before measuring the operating temperature. Start the engine and allow it to reach full operational temperature, monitoring the temperature along the way in case it starts to overheat. I checked the coolant prior to returning it to the Toyota Dealership and the coolant was low - This was one of the reasons I decided to return it to the Toyota Dealership. 2 Using an infrared temperature gun, test the temperature of the engine near the location of the thermostat or coolant temperature sensor. Compare to specifications. I will purchase one of these guns at Harbor Freight if the vehicle still overheats when returned from the Toyota Dealership. 3 Using a scan tool, retrieve the engine coolant temperature sensor temperature reading. Okay, I think I have seen these in the Tools for Lend at Autozone (Scan tool) 4 Be aware that there will be some temperature difference because the temperature sensor is sitting in the coolant and the temperature gun is measuring the surface temperature near the sensor. 5 Compare the results from the temperature gun, the coolant temperature sensor, and the vehicle’s temperature gauge; this gives you a good idea of the engine’s operating temperature. Good Idea - I will proceed with this diagnostic procedure if it still overheats after being returned from the Toyota Dealership. I know that the last place I took the vehicle to - (when the thermostat was replaced to a Toyota thermostat), they spent about 15 minutes pointing the laser gun to all different areas of the cooling system. But this was as the vehicle was running at idle. It does not overheat at this situation. I asked them what they were checking and they said they were looking for cold spots that would indicate blockage. They said everything looked good. I do not think anyone has used a scan tool to retrieve the engine coolant temperature reading. Thank you so much for taking the time to consider my problem and come up with all of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shibs Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Sherrie, I am not sure if autozone will have a tool to scan your 90 Toyota chassis. I would pay Toyota the diag fee and ask them to debug the issue. Ask them if they are able to scan for the engine temp pls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherrie Posted October 6, 2015 Author Share Posted October 6, 2015 Sherrie, I am not sure if autozone will have a tool to scan your 90 Toyota chassis. I would pay Toyota the diag fee and ask them to debug the issue. Ask them if they are able to scan for the engine temp pls. Okay, I will call them now. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjrbus Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 I know that the last place I took the vehicle to - (when the thermostat was replaced to a Toyota thermostat), they spent about 15 minutes pointing the laser gun to all different areas of the cooling system. But this was as the vehicle was running at idle. It does not overheat at this situation. I asked them what they were checking and they said they were looking for cold spots that would indicate blockage. They said everything looked good. I do not think anyone has used a scan tool to retrieve the engine coolant temperature reading. Thank you so much for taking the time to consider my problem and come up with all of this. This was a copy and paste, I do not know that much! It is unlikely that you will find a scan gauge for a 92 Toyota. My concern was that someone had taken the time and effort to determine that the temperature sensor and gauge are reading correctly. There is no worse feeling than spending hours trying to fix something only to find out it is a bad gauge or sensor. I know it appears to be functioning properly, but appearances can be deceiving. BTDT Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Again Go to a DIY carwash and blast the AC condenser clean. Get the sprayer close to the grill and pressure wash all the crap out of the condenser. You have replaced most of the suspected parts or eliminated most of the possibilities. One more odd ball thing to check The radiator must be sealed to the radiator support. If there is a gap at the edge the air will flow around the radiator and not through it. Use some household window AC sealing foam strips if you have a gap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherrie Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 Again Go to a DIY carwash and blast the AC condenser clean. Get the sprayer close to the grill and pressure wash all the crap out of the condenser. You have replaced most of the suspected parts or eliminated most of the possibilities. One more odd ball thing to check The radiator must be sealed to the radiator support. If there is a gap at the edge the air will flow around the radiator and not through it. Use some household window AC sealing foam strips if you have a gap Thanks for the suggestion! I am still waiting to get the Winnie back from the Toyota Dealership. I called today and they said they were still troubleshooting it. i will check it out when I get it back. This is an easy fix so I wil try it. Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shibs Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Again Go to a DIY carwash and blast the AC condenser clean. Get the sprayer close to the grill and pressure wash all the crap out of the condenser. You have replaced most of the suspected parts or eliminated most of the possibilities. One more odd ball thing to check The radiator must be sealed to the radiator support. If there is a gap at the edge the air will flow around the radiator and not through it. Use some household window AC sealing foam strips if you have a gap Good Suggestion, but I would check if the condenser vanes are clogged first. Flash a light behind a radiator or just look from the front of the grill. I had a Honda with bunch of bugs stuck to it while I lived in NE and drove by the corn fields in summer, my windshield would turn nearly white. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjrbus Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 After all Sherrie has been through and the AC condenser is plugged and causing the problem, I would get an attorney and sue every one of the mechanics that have worked on it! Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 After all Sherrie has been through and the AC condenser is plugged and causing the problem, I would get an attorney and sue every one of the mechanics that have worked on it! Jim Sue them for what?? So far it sounds to me like they only did work as authorized and only charged as authorized. Now - if one of these shops made a blanket-promise that the overheating problem would be fixed by work they proposed - then yeah, I could see a legitimate gripe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherrie Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 After all Sherrie has been through and the AC condenser is plugged and causing the problem, I would get an attorney and sue every one of the mechanics that have worked on it! Jim Unfortunately Jim I think that in my experience getting an attorney involved ( especially in Las Vegas) would only add one more person to the list of people I have paid without a satisfying result. On the other hand I do agree with jdemaris I have authorized all the work that has been done on the Winnie - In a manner that I think makes sense and has been done with the consul of many on this forum. It has been and is still somewhat frustrating - I know that we have followed a logical process in diagnosing the problem. From the least expensive, and most typical to the most expensive and not typical. At this time all I can hope for is to one day soon have this issue resolved and be able to use our Camper without mechanical problems. Then I can concentrate on the rehabilitation of the camper portion. I have put that on hold until I get the overheating resolved. Again thanks to all who have considered my problem and contributed to my process of repair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjrbus Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I'm sure you are right, it did seem like a good idea when I typed it! Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherrie Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 NEW UPDATE!, The service man said he just drove the Winnie and it is still Overheating going up a hill. He said he wants to put all Stock back on the Truck. He says the Radiator and the Fan Clutch and the Fan Shroud all are "after market" and this is the problem. He wants $1,650.00 parts and labor to put all stock parts back on the truck. He said that this engine actually has 3 radiators that are stock for this truck and the radiator that is on is not large enough, He says the Electric Fan is not strong enough and the shroud would need to be replaced to match the Fan Clutch to be installed. Opinions Please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 The only way I would do this is "fix or no pay", with a warranty for next summer. Its cooling off now so not a true test The shroud and fan are important at low or no speed, less so at 65mph. To small radiator, maybe just because the way the engine seems to overheat. Your stuff is really new so there would be some cost recoupment via Ebay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherrie Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 Well it is 92% here today, and will be Mid to high 90% for the rest of the week. My concern is that sitting still or going at 60 MPH on the flat the truck does not overheat. Why - oh Why does it happen going up hill? It was raining and only around 80% on the last overheated test drive. So I find it hard to understand how the Radiator, Fan and shroud would only come into play going uphill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 IF your cooling system has a border line cooling ability, then as you start up a hill you increase the throttle and burn more fuel. That makes more heat for the radiator to handle.I'm on a tablet now, when I get to wifi I'll look back and see what radiator you got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtdave2 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 going up hill does make more heat still as much as these rigs work to stay at highway speed you would think it would over heat then as well.. I am still wondering if your motor is running lean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherrie Posted October 10, 2015 Author Share Posted October 10, 2015 going up hill does make more heat still as much as these rigs work to stay at highway speed you would think it would over heat then as well.. I am still wondering if your motor is running lean. I don't think so I have to believe the Toyota dealership set the ignition timing correct after replacing the plugs and spark plug wires and valve seals and adjustment. I also have had the timing checked before the dealership did all this work and that mechanic said it was ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherrie Posted October 10, 2015 Author Share Posted October 10, 2015 Has anyone actually verified the temperature of the coolant other than looking at the gauge and saying it is running hot? Verifying Engine Operating Temperature Technicians need to verify engine operating temperature whenever the customer complains about an overheating issue, an underheating issue such as inadequate heat from the heater, or poor fuel economy. Verifying the operating temperature involves using an infrared noncontact temperature gun to check whether the on-vehicle temperature indicators, such as the temperature gauge and coolant temperature sensor, are operating accurately. The temperature gun, as described earlier, measures the amount of heat energy (temperature) of an object. Just realize that some objects do not conduct heat as well as others; if you can point the temperature gun at a metal component, it will produce a more accurate reading. If pointed toward the engine’s thermostat housing (or next to it), with the engine fully warmed up, a close approximation of the engine’s operating temperature can be measured and compared to the specifications. Note that a vehicle with an electric fan will usually have two listed temperatures—one temperature at which the fan should turn on and another temperature at which it should turn off. Anywhere between those temperatures is the operating temperature in this situation. If the operating temperature is correct, verify that the vehicle’s temperature gauge is reading accurately. Also, use a scan tool and compare the reading from the coolant temperature sensor to the temperature gun reading to verify that the PCM is receiving the correct temperature signal. To verify the engine operating temperature, follow the steps in skill Drill 46-2: 1 If the vehicle is in for an overheating concern, verify that the coolant level is correct before starting the engine. If the coolant is low, check for the presence of a leak before measuring the operating temperature. Start the engine and allow it to reach full operational temperature, monitoring the temperature along the way in case it starts to overheat. 2 Using an infrared temperature gun, test the temperature of the engine near the location of the thermostat or coolant temperature sensor. Compare to specifications. 3 Using a scan tool, retrieve the engine coolant temperature sensor temperature reading. 4 Be aware that there will be some temperature difference because the temperature sensor is sitting in the coolant and the temperature gun is measuring the surface temperature near the sensor. 5 Compare the results from the temperature gun, the coolant temperature sensor, and the vehicle’s temperature gauge; this gives you a good idea of the engine’s operating temperature. Just thought I would tell you that the Toyota Dealership said they did a full coolant system check. Specifically they said that they used the infrared gun, checked the coolant level, coolant pressure and the computer systems and did not locate any problems. This is why they think it must be the aftermarket parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjrbus Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Just thought I would tell you that the Toyota Dealership said they did a full coolant system check. Specifically they said that they used the infrared gun, checked the coolant level, coolant pressure and the computer systems and did not locate any problems. This is why they think it must be the aftermarket parts. Thanks Sherrie, ran across something else. This is all above my paygrade, this is a copy and paste from another forum. I cannot remember if you said you replaced fuel filter? MtDave2 seems to be fairly knowledgeable, so I did a quick Google search. Jim I have a Tacoma truck that developed a lean condition and the fuel filter was the problem. The fuel pressure was good however the flow must have been restricted (it would go lean going up mountain passes) I simply replace the filter every year or two as routine maintenance it has 141k on it and it runs factory fresh. Link http://www.batauto.com/threads/what-exactly-does-a-car-running-lean-mean.8295/ I add the link so people do not think I make this stuff up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherrie Posted October 10, 2015 Author Share Posted October 10, 2015 Thanks Sherrie, ran across something else. This is all above my paygrade, this is a copy and paste from another forum. I cannot remember if you said you replaced fuel filter? MtDave2 seems to be fairly knowledgeable, so I did a quick Google search. Jim I have a Tacoma truck that developed a lean condition and the fuel filter was the problem. The fuel pressure was good however the flow must have been restricted (it would go lean going up mountain passes) I simply replace the filter every year or two as routine maintenance it has 141k on it and it runs factory fresh. Link http://www.batauto.com/threads/what-exactly-does-a-car-running-lean-mean.8295/ I add the link so people do not think I make this stuff up! seems like a simple fix and should be part of normal maintenance. Especially since the problem appears to be restricted to UP HILL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherrie Posted October 10, 2015 Author Share Posted October 10, 2015 I just posted to YotaTech Forum. You can see my post here -New link http://www.yotatech.com/search.php?searchid=10951139 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 OK, radiator 1190 seems to be a nice HD unit. It seems to have a single row core with a aluminum 32mm tube (1 1/4") There are other radiators that have 2 or 3 tube BUT the mfg doesn't state what they are made out off. A 32 mm aluminum tube will cool better than a 2 row brass with 5/8" tubes. Brass is weaker than aluminum so 5/8" is about all bigger the tube can be. Can you go back to the shop that installed the new radiator and explain what's going on and Toyota's $1600.00 answer to your problem, and see what they say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjrbus Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 I like your no fix no pay approach WME, unlikely they would do that, but does not hurt to ask. It seems the problem started before the aftermarket parts were installed? If they do not want to warranty the repair I would want at least 2 second opinions before I went that route. yotatech is a good forum for mechanical info, I always check there before starting repairs. Jim yotatech link is coming back "no matches" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherrie Posted October 10, 2015 Author Share Posted October 10, 2015 I like your no fix no pay approach WME, unlikely they would do that, but does not hurt to ask. It seems the problem started before the aftermarket parts were installed? If they do not want to warranty the repair I would want at least 2 second opinions before I went that route. yotatech is a good forum for mechanical info, I always check there before starting repairs. Jim yotatech link is coming back "no matches" try this link http://www.yotatech.com/search.php?searchid=10951139 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Having too small a radiator is plausible. But - how did they determine your's IS too small? Ratings like 1, 2, or 3 tube are sometimes meaningless. Some one tube radiators have more cooling capacity then three-tube. It's all about how deep the tube area is and NOT how many tubes there are. I don't get the electric fan thing. That is unless you totally removed the mechanical fan. But yes - proper fan operation is important when stopped a long red lights or on very slow-moving hill climbs. In normal highway conditions - you don't need any fan. I think you are asking for more headaches going to the suggested forums. Yes a few people there really know there stuff and many more are clueless "know it alls." It can be tough trying to sift through it all and deciding what info is actually useful. You are likely to get a lot more bad info then good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.