5 To 6 Lug Adaptors - 83 Dolphin

[vincevs21]

What size convertors do I need to change my fronts to a 6 lug setup?

This link that everyone else refers to for custom commercial wheel is dead.

Will one of these work?

http://www.ezaccessory.com/2_Piece_Conversion_Adapter_s/76.htm

(Reposted in a new thread as I previously hijacked a post on a '78)

[vincevs21]

Found a phone number for Custom and Commercial Wheel: 909.357.3505

Part 6714 for 5x4.5" to 6x7.25": $365 a pair

[Totem]

lol at that price. i snagged actual hubs that swap at the spindle for less than half.

[WME]

Plan B is to get one adapter and have a 6 bolt spare. If you ever have a flat on the front you can bolt on the adapter and mount the spare. Of course the 6 bolt fits the rear just fine. This way you only need one adapter and one rim.

I did this for 2 years before funding allowed a second set.

P.S. In this 2 years both flats I had were on the rear, inside tire of course.

[vincevs21]

I bought the hubs but they didn't work! The spindles were the same but when I changed the brakes the new caliper did not bolt onto my current '83 spindle and I couldn't swap the spindle because the lower ball joint is upside down on mine vs the 91... ugh

[Totem]

your caliper is fine you just need the 1 ton brake bracket and dust shield.

I went through this exact same exercise and bought the "1 ton" brake assemblies from napa. Turns out they were exact same calipers with different brackets and dust shields. If my memory serves i ended up returning them, buying the brackets and having existing dust shield altered to fit new bolt pattern; or maybe i did a core swap out on the caliper assemblies. either way its a better way to go because the 1 ton bracket is much stronger; which you would like on an overloaded jalopy like a toy home.

The "adapter" guys wouldnt even sell me a single one when i called; it was a pair or none at all and they were rude on the phone. they are on to us toy owners needs and are using the airport pricing tactic like a metro airport McDonalds does; want fries? 6$... extra value meal? 13$. where else are you gonna turn?

of course i have an 85... not sure on an 83... I think JDE had a solution for that though

[Derek up North]

I've no input about the adapters only being available in pairs (but no reason to believe it's not true), but should there be someone only interested in buying one there would be nothing to stop them from posting here (and the Yahoo Group(s)) looking for someone else wanting just one and sharing a pair.

[Gary_M]

Yes... I could use one for a spare if someone was willing to share. Currently have the redneck tire change process in place for my fronts. The smell of hairspray when I seal the tries gets me dreamy.

[Totem]

the adapter to me is inferior if used single as a backup because now you will have to limp to a tire shop; essentially its like a donught tire strategy, it will work but one of your front wheels will be extended more on one side than the other which could cause issues in alignment, dog trotting who knows. short term it would be ok to get to the tire shop but if you want peace of mind, the ability to swap and finish your trip with happy wife and kids, better braking and higher resale value the full out 1 ton 6 lug in front is the way to go.

[zero]

your caliper is fine you just need the 1 ton brake bracket and dust shield.

1983 is a lot different from an 85. 1983 takes a different lower ball joint, different caliper, and the brake rotor is on a different bolt circle. I'm not sure what combo of parts can make the 1 ton dually type front brakes fit IF it can be done at all. . 1985 is a bolt-in swap. Not sure about the 1983. I have a pair of extra adapter brackets here for the 1 ton dually front brake setup. No idea if they can be used on a 1983.

[Derek up North]

.... one of your front wheels will be extended more on one side than the other which could cause issues in alignment, dog trotting who knows.

Without one to measure, I'm only assuming (and I know what that can lead to), but I assume the thickness of the adapter combined with the 'extreme' dish of the 6-lug rim puts the tire back to the same distance from the truck centerline as the original 5-lug rim so there would be no change to the camber, caster, etc so no change to the alignment.

Does anyone have one to measure so that we don't have to assume?

BTW, is 'dog-trotting' perhaps what I call 'crabbing'?

[Totem]

uh yeeeeeeah no. the odds of those offsets matching and cancelling each other being the case are so slim I'd rather assume that betting on green in Roulette table is a valid retirement strategy. Besides, Wesley Snipes in passenger 57 clearly tells us to "always bet on black".

[vincevs21]

Thanks for all the feedback guys.

I took the entire front assembly from ball joints to lug nuts off of a '91. The actual spindle where the bearing rides on is the same but that is about where is stops as the differences include caliper mount offset, caliper bolt spacing, backing plate bolt spacing, flipped lower ball joint. We tried every combination we could think of and couldn't get it to work with my torsion bar setup on the '83.

Do you think I could swap spindles from an ~85 and bolt the '91 stuff to it?

[Derek up North]

... the odds of those offsets matching and cancelling each other ...

Well, I don't know. But as a retired design Engineer, I think I'd have made that one of the (easily achieved) design objectives. Why would they have done otherwise? You're designing an adapter, so why not design it to adapt the bolt circles AND the offset to avoid the problems you pointed out? The adapters that I've seen are certainly thicker than needed to merely adapt the bolt circles but I doubt they'd have made them so excessively thick as to push the wheels too far out. I think the odds are that they determined the thickness on exactly that. But that's why I'm hoping someone can take some actual measurements so that none of us have to ASSUME. Certainly before placing any bets.

YOMV.

[WME]

The offset in the rims was designed so that the center of the duals is the center between the rear axle bearings. With the offset known the front adapters were made so that again the center of the tire is centered between the front bearings.

Design what a concept.

[zero]

Well, I don't know. But as a retired design Engineer, I think I'd have made that one of the (easily achieved) design objectives. Why would they have done otherwise? You're designing an adapter, so why not design it to adapt the bolt circles AND the offset to avoid the problems you pointed out? The adapters that I've seen are certainly thicker than needed to merely adapt the bolt circles but I doubt they'd have made them so excessively thick as to push the wheels too far out. I think the odds are that they determined the thickness on exactly that. But that's why I'm hoping someone can take some actual measurements so that none of us have to ASSUME. Certainly before placing any bets.

YOMV.

A year or so ago I was considering buying adapters for my Chinook. I got a guy on the phone who sells the adapters in California. When I asked him for off-set specs and hopefully - a spec sheet or mechanical drawing - he turned kind of nasty. He acted as so I had no right to ask since, as he put it, there was no other choice. Yes there was. I adapted the OEM 1988 hubs to my Chinook. The guy also told me he could not "take one out of a box" to measure since he did not stock them. He said they have to be prepaid and special ordered and it would take a month to get them. Like I said, that was over a year ago. At that time, they had a Web-catalog with photos. That's all gone now. At least - not where it was last I looked.

[Derek up North]

The offset in the rims was designed so that the center of the duals is the center between the rear axle bearings. With the offset known the front adapters were made so that again the center of the tire is centered between the front bearings.

Design what a concept.

I'll counter that the offset has no effect on where the center of the duals is. The offset would be selected to allow proper clearance between the rear tires.

[zero]

I'll counter that the offset has no effect on where the center of the duals is. The offset would be selected to allow proper clearance between the rear tires.

Yes . . location of the center between the dual wheels and it's relation to the two wheel bearings is determined by the distance of the wheel mounting face from the center of the two bearing assemblies. That is determines by the dimensions of the cast-iron hub and machined location for the bearing-races. Has nothing to do with the wheels (in back). In front - the hub adapter has a critical effect on wheel offset.

[vincevs21]

Yeah I couldn't get it figured... So close but so far away. Keeping the standard fronts until I save up for the adapters.

[Maineah]

So what if the wheel sticks out a little further. It won't change the alignment as long as both are the same thickness it will just have a wider stance, who knows the fact that the 6 bolt hub is designed to use a wheel with a negative offset it may well come out the same any way.

[zero]

Original setup with the 1 ton 6-lug hub and 6 lug X 7.25" wheel has the centerline of the wheel almost dead-on with the centerline between the two wheel bearings. Center of wheel is about 1/4" inboard of the center between the two wheel bearings.

[Totem]

Guys the people that sell the adapters are hacks with a cnc machine, and only sell them in pairs because they dont want to sssume responsibility for the damage done by having one wheel not aligned. I am unaware of anyone that bought them. Anyone? Anyone if you have them please post the measurement. And of you draw a straicht line from wheel to wheel and one sides wheel is an inch out but not the other and you think thats fine, ha! You just showed everyone online your lack of alignment knowledge

[Derek up North]

Yes, there are people who have bought just one. And I'll remind you what happens when people 'assume'.

[WME]

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/toyota-campers/photos/albums/1432594855

I bought one checked it out and was satisfied with the alignment, I will admit that I carried it for 2 years with out using it. The photo album deals the full conversion after I bought a 2nd adaptor by its self.

Fwiw I had one flat in the rear with a 5 lug front. Limping almost 100 mi on 3 rear tires in 90 deg heat is a lot more nerve wracking than driving the same distance with the "possiblity" of having a slightly off centered rim. A second flat later in the rear was a non event with a proper 6 lug spare.

An odd point in 15 years of rving I have had 4 flats ALL ON INSIDE REARS. Don't know if I'm just lucky or what. I do check my tire pressure before each trip. Even then 2 of the failed tires still had proper air pressure after tread seperation.

[zero]

Guys the people that sell the adapters are hacks with a cnc machine, and only sell them in pairs because they dont want to sssume responsibility for the damage done by having one wheel not aligned. I am unaware of anyone that bought them. Anyone? Anyone if you have them please post the measurement. And of you draw a straicht line from wheel to wheel and one sides wheel is an inch out but not the other and you think thats fine, ha! You just showed everyone online your lack of alignment knowledge

The guy at the place I called in California I called last year told me his adapters were special castings and not milled from a block of metal stock. So I asked him for a photo and spec sheet. He got kind of angry. Told me there was no spec sheet and since he had none in stock - no photos. He basically told me there was no other choice if I wanted a 7 1/4" X 6 adaptor and there'd be a 4-6 week wait if I ordered them (without seeing them first). So I did not buy nor did I ever get to see any specs. That Website where I got his number is gone now. My main concern - besides price - was the offset. Never got an answer.

[zero]

Here are the offset specs needed if an adapter is used to convert a 5 lug X 4.5" hub so a 6 lug X 7.25" wheel from a dually 1 ton can be mounted.

[Derek up North]

My main concern - besides price - was the offset. Never got an answer.

Well, if WME could measure the front track of his with the adapters we could compare that with the front track of someones without the adapters we could find out and not have to assume.

[zero]

This has little to do with adapters. Here's a 16" rim for an old International Harvester truck that will bolt right on to a 1 ton Toyota. Wouldn't that be fun - especially with the good-old split-rim design.

[Derek up North]

I think my first concern with using those would be (with the smallest 'suitable' 16" tire) tire clearance, especially up front. It seems I've read about tires rubbing even with oversized 14" tires. Second would be changes to gearing (solved by a ratio swap, of course).

[zero]

I think my first concern with using those would be (with the smallest 'suitable' 16" tire) tire clearance, especially up front. It seems I've read about tires rubbing even with oversized 14" tires. Second would be changes to gearing (solved by a ratio swap, of course).

I prefer the OEM 14". No interest in big diameter tires. I'd like to keep it as low to the ground as possible for the best fuel mileage and ease of access.. That being said - if for some strange reason someone wants BIG wheels and tires - Ford has 7.25" X 6 lug rims in tubeless tire design (no split) in 19.5". Single or dually.

B6Y-1015-B .. Non Split Rim Wheel / Use with SRW / 6 lug 7.25" bolt circle / 19.5" x 5.25"

B6TZ-1015-A .. Non Split Rim Wheel / Use with DRW / 6 lug 7.25" bolt circle / 17.5" x 5.25"

B8Y-1015-A .. Non Split Rim Wheel / Use with SRW / 6 lug 17.5" bolt circle / 17.5" x 5.25"

[WME]

Sorry no measurements the unit has been sold.

[Derek up North]

Ah, well. Too bad. Back to (not) assuming anything.

I guess if you'd noticed any major change in track you'd mention it.

[WME]

5 hub front https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/toyota-campers/photos/albums/319879374/lightbox/314130224?orderBy=ordinal&sortOrder=asc&photoFilter=ALL#zax/314130224

6 bolt front https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/toyota-campers/photos/albums/1432594855/lightbox/30090555?orderBy=ordinal&sortOrder=asc&photoFilter=ALL#zax/30090555

Look at the fender clearance at the top, not much change if any.

[Totem]

no yahoo account and dont plan on getting one. in fact this site is the only social web group i am a member of. Lucky ya'll

[Derek up North]

For your viewing pleasure, just this once!