runfromturtles Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 As you might already know i'm working on moving my 78 sunrader shell onto another truck. I am open to ideas. Finding a toyota pick-up that already has the 1 ton axle with duallys is pretty rare. However, Toyota did make a pick-up called Toyota 1 ton. It doesn't have the dual wheels but it looks like it's got a nice pay load. I'm not even sure why the early toyota's axles were recalled, I thought it was the later over loaded ones that were having the problems? Some have mentioned the T100, great but the stock axle is only half ton if I do recall. Plus the toyota's from the 90 are ridiculously overpriced. Once a truck is from 89 it apparently is automatically half the value... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runfromturtles Posted June 12, 2013 Author Share Posted June 12, 2013 Of course the most logical thing to do if I found a good deal would be a 4x4. As if I were to ever sell it there would be a higher demand. More upfront cost for me though. Trying to keep this as $ low as possible in case something disastrous happens to the project, I wouldn't want to be out too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 I wouldn't call picking a 4WD a "logical" choice. it all depends on what you want. A "user" . . . or somehing you're hoping to make money on? As a "user" - a 4WD chassis adds to the complexity, weight, ground height and lowers the fuel mileage. Not everyone wants that in an RV - especially those people who have fuel efficiency in mind which probably includes the many that prefer small RVs. Ther rear-axle issues are about taking all the weight OFF the rear axles. The only way to do that is by using a full-floating rear-axle assembly. That is standard equipment in the vast majority of RVs over 5500 lbs. gross weight. RVs very often get crammed with stuff and get even heavier if a tow hitch is added. Toyota full-floating rear axles are not hard to find. To me that would be the "logical" choice to add to any small Toyota truck that will be mated to an RV chassis. In my area, the dual-wheel Hertz-type box trucks are not hard to find either. I bought two this year and saw a few more go to the car crusher. By the way - you can also buy a full-floater kit and convert a standard Toyota semi-flloater to a full-floater. Not what I'd call "cost-effective" though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 my vote; 1998 dodge ram longbed 3500 turbo diesel (12 valve.) Cons rusted body panels and frame but can find nice ones down south PITA to change rotors and bearings leaky transmissions Pros cheap pull the earth out from under a house 20 MPG is attainable diesel is cheaper than gas right now (here) diesel doesnt go bad as fast as gasoline diesel can be made by a layman much more easily than gas diesel is far less explosive an incredible cult following community like this one (RAMFORUM) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Well I think 4wd is logical cause if your doing all that work you want the end result to be worth as much as possible. Runfromturtles is also in oregon and 4x4 just is more usable to get to the best places. I would go with any full sized diesel. Great power, good mileage and can handle the load of the camper with ease. I can't wait to see what comes of this project. Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy in Jax Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 The T100 was manufactured and partially engineered by Toyota-subsidiary Hino. Three trim lines were offered: the base model, the DX, and the top-of-the-line SR5. The maximum towing capacity was 5,200 lb (2,360 kg) and the truck had a payload limit of 2,450 pounds. Although most trucks fell within the 1/2 ton realm, a 1 ton model was offered (in 2 wheel drive form) for several of its earlier years until finally being dropped because of a lack of interest. Also like the idea of using the Dodge 3500 as the drive train or you might get lucky and find a T100 set up with the one Ton chassy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galvanized Knight Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 By the way - you can also buy a full-floater kit and convert a standard Toyota semi-flloater to a full-floater. Not what I'd call "cost-effective" though. here is a link to that kit http://frontrangeoffroadfab.com/nfoscomm/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=142&osCsid=6750938cf0d7ae9efd757bf3ee515b52 1600 bones and its all yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 I have seen that set up before and I think it is for an earlier Land Cruiser not a Hilux or Tacoma. I like the Dodge diesel ideal you can buy them a lot cheaper then a newer Tacoma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikesta Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Put it on an 80 series land cruiser. There is no other option. Or I'll do it. How do we get your shell up to me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runfromturtles Posted June 13, 2013 Author Share Posted June 13, 2013 Well I think 4wd is logical cause if your doing all that work you want the end result to be worth as much as possible. Runfromturtles is also in oregon and 4x4 just is more usable to get to the best places. I would go with any full sized diesel. Great power, good mileage and can handle the load of the camper with ease. I can't wait to see what comes of this project. Linda S It's going to take some time, although I am very underemployed so it could progress when i'm motivated enough. Put it on an 80 series land cruiser. There is no other option. Or I'll do it. How do we get your shell up to me? HAHA, give me a chance to screw this up first, then you can have my shell I am liking the ideas of diesel rams very much so, but they are NOT too cheap. I could tow a boat no problem behind my MH which is a great perk. However some of these older toyota 1 ton's I can find for 1500ish. I'm now learning to weld as well....this should be interesting. Thanks again for all the ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 It's going to take some time, although I am very underemployed so it could progress when i'm motivated enough. HAHA, give me a chance to screw this up first, then you can have my shell I am liking the ideas of diesel rams very much so, but they are NOT too cheap. I could tow a boat no problem behind my MH which is a great perk. However some of these older toyota 1 ton's I can find for 1500ish. I'm now learning to weld as well....this should be interesting. Thanks again for all the ideas. Toyota 1 ton duallies in my area often sell for $500 (a hair more then scrap value). That if you can find one before it gets to the scrapyard. There are several factory made RVs based on Dodge or Ford diesel pickup trucks. That makes it fairly easy to get info on performance and fuel mileage before you try to build one yourself. An older 5.9 liter, 12 valve, turbo-intercooled Cummins in a 2WD truck in something like a 21 foot Sunrader is going to get 14-15 MPG on highway trips at 65-75 MPH. I just read a report of a long trip taken by a Ford 4WD pickup based RV with a 6 liter diesel and it got 10.5 MPG. That for a trip from Florida to west Texas. You can read here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Rare-Earthroamer-XV-LT-Expedition-Vehicle-4x4-Diesel-Camper-Xtreme-Offroad-RV-/151062352867?pt=RVs_Campers&hash=item232c0493e3#ht_116785wt_1165 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 . Most 4 x 4 have heavy duty axles as part of the package. I do not believe that to be true. Cite even one example please. Many 4WDs come with differential center-sections designed to handle more torque then 2WD versions. Nothing added to increase weight-carrying capacity though. With these motorhomes and rear-axles - it's the weight carrying ability that's the major issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 here is a link to that kit http://frontrangeoffroadfab.com/nfoscomm/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=142&osCsid=6750938cf0d7ae9efd757bf3ee515b52 1600 bones and its all yours. That's why I consider it not "cost effective." The kit consists of parts off the front of a 4WD along with custom made axles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 my vote; 1998 dodge ram longbed 3500 turbo diesel (12 valve.) Cons 20 MPG is attainable diesel is cheaper than gas right now (here) diesel doesnt go bad as fast as gasoline 20 MPG won't happen when a 5.9 is attached to high-roof RV. 15-16 MPG at 65-75 MPH is more like it. The 5.9 when factory installed in 30 plus foot RVs gets around 10-11 MPG. Now - install a Cummins 3.9 turbo in something the size of a Toyota Sunrader and then 20-22 MPG will be possible. You are very correct with longevity of diesel fuel. I've used 15 year old diesel with NO issues. The price of diesel is a mixed bag. In the majority of states - diesel costs more then regular gasoline. Yesterday - here in central NY - I had to spend a few hundreds bucks to fill my Dodge's tanks. Diesel here right now is $4.20 per gallon. Regular gas is $3.65. My Dodge pickup holds 85 gallons. The biggest hassle I find with diesel is finding places that sell it and hoping those places have diesel pumps for pickup trucks and NOT big-nozzled for big-rigs. Unless in an urban or suburban area - diesel fuel can sometimes be hard to find. I got in trouble when I tried to camp in the Michigan UP a while back (Whitefish Bay - Paradise). The only diesel station had gone out of business. I got there with a 1/4 tank of fuel. We cancelled our planned 1 week camping trip and left - and went to Escanaba instead. Also - making and using your own fuel from things like waste vegetable oil is not as easy and cost-effective as some people claim. Not so bad if you have an in-line injection pump or a later non-mechanical pump. It can be VERY problematic if your diesel has a rotary distributor pump like many 5.9 Cummins use. Same problem with Ford-IH 6.9s and 7.3s up to mid 1994, Chevy/GM 6.2s and 6.5s, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 The biggest hassle I find with diesel is finding places that sell it and hoping those places have diesel pumps for pickup trucks and NOT big-nozzled for big-rigs. Unless in an urban or suburban area - diesel fuel can sometimes be hard to find. I got in trouble when I tried to camp in the Michigan UP a while back (Whitefish Bay - Paradise). The only diesel station had gone out of business. I got Really? not me... almost every truck stop will have low sulfur auto pumps. I have yet to have to "hunt" for diesel; this is just illogical when logistics (shipping and freight) is considered. If what you state here is even remotely true people wouldn't get deliveries of anything. I thought the OP was talking about putting a sunrader shell on a truck... not a full out class a/c. I find that almost every speedway has diesel..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Really? not me... almost every truck stop will have low sulfur auto pumps. I have yet to have to "hunt" for diesel; this is just illogical when logistics is considered. If what you state here is even remotely true people wouldn't get deliveries of anything. I thought the OP was talking about putting a sunrader shell on a truck... not a full out class a/c. I find that almost every speedway has diesel..... It would be "illogical" for me to report something contrary to what I have observed first hand. Your comments about "truck stops" indicate to me that you have not been to same ones I've been too. Maybe not had many diesel pickups either? Many truck stops ONLY have big-rig pumps. Those that have both auto and big-rig pumps rarely have them marked so you can tell which is which. With my Ford - I cannot fill either tank with a big-rig pump. On my Dodge - I can fill the front tank but cannot fill the rear tank. On my diesel Chevy - I cannot get full with a big-rig diesel pump. As I already stated - on my last trip to Paradise - a town on the northeastern tip of the Michigan UP on Whitefish Bay - the only place that sold diesel had closed its doors. We could not get fuel. If I had filled my two tanks before heading there - I might of been OK since my Ford holds 40 gallons of fuel. Same thing happened to me once when in Grand Marais -again Michigan UP. We had planned to camp in that area for a full week and gave up on the idea due to no fuel being available. The place where I live part-time in Presque Isle county, Michigan - in a place name Hawks - has one small general store and a part-time post-office. They sell diesel fuel. If they are not open I have to drive around 60 miles to get diesel if it's a weekend. Last summer - when we were camping in the New York Adirondacks we were near empty when we got to our usual diesel fill-up place. That is in Speculator, Hamilton County, New York. They had taken out their diesel tanks and no longer sold diesel. We then commenced to the town of Indian Lake maybe 25 miles away. They had one place that sells diesel but only on weekdays. This was a saturday and we could not buy fuel. We cancelled our plans for further travel until the following monday when I was able to get diesel fuel. Note that I am talking about places I have knowledge of and pre-plan our trips. When going somewhere rural that I don't know well - it can be more problematic. We just went through that in a rural area of Kentucky and almost ran out of diesel fuel. Every little village sold gasoline but very few had diesel. For people with gas powered vehicles - fuel-buying "planning" is rarely an issue. If you own a diesel - and drive in rural areas - planning is often absolutely necessary. It is the main reason why I added a 50 gallon aux. fuel tank to my Dodge. When my Dodge diesel truck is full - with a camper on it - it has a 1200-1300 mile cruising range. I always fill it before it's half empty as insurance. When I first got my Ford F250 diesel it only had a single 19 gallon tank and gets around 14 MPG with a camper. THAT did get me worried a few times about running out of fuel before finding a place to refill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 funny; i know a thing or two about VERY remote locales... and the main thing I know is that most rely on diesel to run large generators. That being said if we are talking sticks and not main veins then yeah; but the nearest semblance of a town should have a diesel pump; if not for anything else to appease the farmers... these uppers claim diesel is everywhere up in the UP; also i would be a liar if i havent told you ive been there more times than I can count. never once had trouble finding it. The link belows leads to many many locations within thier posts. http://www.forestriverforums.com/forums/f140/diesel-fuel-stops-in-the-u-p-35067.html 2/25/2013 Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 43 We don't have many "truck stops" in the UP but diesel is everywhere. Don't worry "come on up". let me know a location of any truck stop you like between in main state Mi. I can spot check it for not having an auto pump; I'm calling shinanigans on this comment of any truck stop not having an auto pump capable of fueling a VW jetta TDI etc for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galvanized Knight Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 I am not sure where your located but maybe use a truck from a Chinook post 1974' . Here is an article quote "The newly enhanced Toyota-Chinook sported an upgraded chassis built specifically for RV use; the truck’s 101.7-inch wheelbase was stretched to 110 inches and equipped with an 8” ring and pinion third member (AKA heavy duty) and stouter tires, compared to the standard 7.5” rear gear on the earlier models. The larger platform took care of weight and handling issues and the Chinook team took care of the rest." likely pick one up for super cheap. the 20R is underpowered but in my experience it is easy to fix and parts are cheap. I know a guy in Montana with one that I strip the chinook from a few weeks ago. I think he still has it ? if your interest I can PM you his email. http://s1161.photobucket.com/user/galvanizedknight/media/IMG_5724_zps82a08d6d.jpg.html'> http://s1161.photobucket.com/user/galvanizedknight/media/IMG_5725_zpsaa2d094f.jpg.html'> http://s1161.photobucket.com/user/galvanizedknight/media/IMG_5728_zpsa6d793ae.jpg.html'> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 funny; i know a thing or two about VERY remote locales... and the main thing I know is that most rely on diesel to run large generators. That being said if we are talking sticks and not main veins then yeah; but the nearest semblance of a town should have a diesel pump; if not for anything else to appease the farmers... these uppers claim diesel is everywhere up in the UP; also i would be a liar if i havent told you ive been there more times than I can count. never once had trouble finding it. The link belows leads to many many locations within thier posts. http://www.forestriverforums.com/forums/f140/diesel-fuel-stops-in-the-u-p-35067.html 2/25/2013 Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 43 We don't have many "truck stops" in the UP but diesel is everywhere. Don't worry "come on up". let me know a location of any truck stop you like between in main state Mi. I can spot check it for not having an auto pump; I'm calling shinanigans on this comment of any truck stop not having an auto pump capable of fueling a VW jetta TDI etc for example. I don't know any farmers here in NY or in northern Michigan that buy their diesel fuel at a filling station. In NY - they'd have to pay extra tax AND buy ultra-low sulfur diesel if going to a public pump. One difference in Michigan as compared to NY is that in Michigan -anyone can buy "off-road" diesel at a public pump. That can't be done in New York. All farmers I know have their own bulk tanks that get filled with farm-diesel which is medium-sulfur, NOT ultra-low sulfur and has less tax attached to it. I have a 1000 gallon bulk tank here at my place. I got it filled recently for $3.59 per gallon. At the pump downtown diesel is $4.30 per gallon. I was a farm-equipment "travelling" mechanic for many years in NY and I assume know more farmers then the average person. In Michigan - I only personally know a few. I stopped at a farm once to buy fuel for my pickup (illegally). As to "come on up to the UP." I've been travelling, exploring, and camping in the Michigan UP every summer and fall for the past 20 years. Partly because my wife is a Michigan native. Not something that is "new" to me. I have been in many areas where I could not find diesel. I already mentioned a few WITH specifics. Prove me wrong if you disagree. This discussion is getting a little silly. If you've traveled around with a diesel and had no problem finding fuel - then obviously - you've been to different places then I have. If you claim to have been to same places I have mentioned and had a different experience? Then either one of us is lying, or we went through those areas at different times. Or perhaps we are driving in parallel universes. I've been driving diesels since the late 1960s and finding fuel has always been a problem. Diesels for consumer-grade cars and trucks has never been mainstream in the USA but has come close since the mid-80s. The plain fact remains - I assume I can always find some hole-in-the-wall selling gasoline. That is NOT true with diesel. If a person gets in the habit of always filling before the tank gets below 1/2 - it's probably not an issue. If you are the type of person who doesn't even think about buying fuel until on 1/8 to empty -and in a rural area with a diesel - you are very likely to get into a jamb. That is regardless of what somebody says on a Webpage somewhere. I noticed at the link you gave - the guy who owns an RV park in "rural" Cedarville in the UP. By my reference frame - Cedarville is far from rural when it comes to the UP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 I am not sure where your located but maybe use a truck from a Chinook post 1974' . "The newly enhanced Toyota-Chinook sported an upgraded chassis built specifically for RV use; the truck’s 101.7-inch wheelbase was stretched to 110 inches and equipped with an 8” ring and pinion third member (AKA heavy duty) and stouter tires, compared to the standard 7.5” rear gear on the earlier models. The larger platform took care of weight and handling issues and the Chinook team took care of the rest." The Chinook RV part of that rig looks pretty good. If it was near me - I'd buy if if cheap. I've got four of them now. There is nothing special about the frame, chassis, rear, etc. in the Chinook versus a regular truck. That article is mentioning the "upgrade" that was done with all the truck. Not just the ones Chinook was buying. The 7.8" semi-floating rear is standard. If someone wanted a Toyota truck chassis for a transplant - a new mid-80s truck would likely be a much better choice. Has a wider frame, torsion bar front suspension, power steering capability, etc. Much nicer setup to work with then anything that ever came with the Chinooks that ended in 78-79. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galvanized Knight Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 The Chinook RV part of that rig looks pretty good. If it was near me - I'd buy if if cheap. I've got four of them now. I bought the rear section for 800$ its a 73-74. the bonus is that those years came with no appliances or propane holding cavity, so no huge holes to repair in the fiberglass. downfall is there is no steel frame but i'll make my own out of 1/2 x 2 tube stock. I stripped the Chinook off that truck right there in that field (picture above). would have been faster to do at my shop but that was too far away. 4 of them eh... building a Chinook limo? it would be rad to make one into a toy trailer for the Chinook. Chinook towing a Chinook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 the main thing I know is that most rely on diesel to run large generators. A few more comments. About backup diesel generators? Who, in their right mind, is going to invest in a diesel electric generator and then rely on gas stations being open to keep in running? That's kind of silly. I have a diesel genset here with 1000 gallons of diesel fuel on hand. I also have a diesel genset in Michigan along with a 300 gallon tank of diesel. Usually found next to a diesel generator is a large fuel tank. They can also be run on home heating oil just fine -even though technically that is no longer legal. About travelling the UP. Before this year - I never had access to the Internet while driving. Even now with a portable MiFi, most areas we travel in the UP have no Internet or wireless access. If I drive to a remote area with a diesel station used to exist -and then get there with a 1/4 tank an find out it's gone and out of business - that can make things tough. That is exactly what happened last time we went for a week long camping trip in Whitefish Bay-Paradise. We got there with intents to camp at a local lake for a week and explore the area (and look at some land listings for sale). The ONLY diesel seller in the Paradise area was closed and boarded up. Keep in mind that I did not have the luxury to "surf" the Internet and try to ascertain what direction I might go to find diesel fuel. The only way I knew for SURE was to head back the way we came - which we did. I'm heading up that way again in a few weeks. Out of curiosity - I just searched the Net for diesel fuel sellers anywhere near Paradise. I came up with four locations and no hours of operation given. Munising – 99 miles from Paradise Saute Ste. Marine – 62 miles from Paradise .Newberry – 40 miles. Grand Marais - 90 miles, and Wetmore - 111 miles from Paradise. There may be some other places I'm not seeing on my limited Net search - but so what? They would do me much good in a pinch unless I knew where to find them. Newberry I already knew about since that's where I retreated to during our failed camping trip to Paradise. The others I was not aware of at that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 I bought the rear section for 800$ its a 73-74. the bonus is that those years came with no appliances or propane holding cavity, so no huge holes to repair in the fiberglass. downfall is there is no steel frame but i'll make my own out of 1/2 x 2 tube stock. I stripped the Chinook off that truck right there in that field (picture above). would have been faster to do at my shop but that was too far away. 4 of them eh... building a Chinook limo? it would be rad to make one into a toy trailer for the Chinook. Chinook towing a Chinook. I've been on a constant search for any Chinook within a 100 miles or so from where I live - if cheap enough. They are scarce in the northeast and so are parts. Heck - even OEM parts for the 70s Toyota trucks are getting scarce. I had a tough time finding a 1978 windshield and the auto glass shops can no longer get them new. It was just as difficult to find a front parking-light lense and I contacted junkyards all over the country looking. Parts for the later Toyotas seem to be much easier to find. None of the Chinooks I've got here have any steel frame underneath. Just laminated honeycomb cardboard and plywood with a thin aluminum skin on the underside. Very little support at the four places the Chinook body bolts to the truck frame. I used three transverse aluminum C-channel girders to add supports to mine and used six connections to the frame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runfromturtles Posted June 14, 2013 Author Share Posted June 14, 2013 I am not sure where your located but maybe use a truck from a Chinook post 1974' . Here is an article quote "The newly enhanced Toyota-Chinook sported an upgraded chassis built specifically for RV use; the truck’s 101.7-inch wheelbase was stretched to 110 inches and equipped with an 8” ring and pinion third member (AKA heavy duty) and stouter tires, compared to the standard 7.5” rear gear on the earlier models. The larger platform took care of weight and handling issues and the Chinook team took care of the rest." likely pick one up for super cheap. the 20R is underpowered but in my experience it is easy to fix and parts are cheap. I know a guy in Montana with one that I strip the chinook from a few weeks ago. I think he still has it ? if your interest I can PM you his email. I am not sure where your located but maybe use a truck from a Chinook post 1974' . Here is an article quote "The newly enhanced Toyota-Chinook sported an upgraded chassis built specifically for RV use; the truck’s 101.7-inch wheelbase was stretched to 110 inches and equipped with an 8” ring and pinion third member (AKA heavy duty) and stouter tires, compared to the standard 7.5” rear gear on the earlier models. The larger platform took care of weight and handling issues and the Chinook team took care of the rest." likely pick one up for super cheap. the 20R is underpowered but in my experience it is easy to fix and parts are cheap. I know a guy in Montana with one that I strip the chinook from a few weeks ago. I think he still has it ? if your interest I can PM you his email. I appreciate you putting up the photos. It might be tempting if it was closer to me. Cost in fuel to pick that up would not really be cost beneficial. As for the diesel conversation. I used to be a delivery driver with a diesel truck. There are some smaller towns that actually didn't sell diesel and you'd have to drive out of your way to find it. Other smaller towns would only have diesel available at one location per town. Most of these places would not be open 24/7 either. So yes I can understand going to remote areas and having a little more difficulty finding diesel. However if you are anywhere near main highways where trucks are there was never a problem. (something that you don't really do when camping) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Seems a bit strange that it would be that difficult to find diesel fuel. Lots of farm equipment runs on diesel, so does machinery for the lumber industry, boats frequently have diesel engines too. Yeah maybe all the gas stations don't have it but the local farmers coop probably does. Of course they are not often open on Sundays so you have to plan ahead but some of them do have 24 hour pumps. I've yet to meet a farmer who relies on gas-stations to keep his tractors running. It would make farming near impossible. My "little" John Deere 130 horse tractor uses 9 gallons of diesel fuel per hour when worked hard. That would be a LOT of trips to the gas stations and no farming would ever get done. My neighbor's 300 horse diesel tractor uses 19 gallons of diesel fuel per hour when chisel-plowing. As to diesel boats? Never seen one in any of fresh water lakes I go to - except for the Great Lakes in Michigan e.g. Huron and Michigan. i guarantee you those boats don't seek out rural gas-stations for fill-ups. Also note that farm diesel is illegal to use in a diesel car or truck. Not sure what part you find "strange." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 . However if you are anywhere near main highways where trucks are there was never a problem. (something that you don't really do when camping) Yes -can't say I've ever had trouble finding diesel on major highways. I HAVE had trouble at times finding diesel pumps with low flow and small nozzles on some major highways. Many truck stops have truck-pumps only. That's works for some diesel vehicles and not so well for others. I CANNOT fill my Ford diesel truck with a "big rig" fuel nozzle. Note that my comments were about problem when in rural interior places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Some more specifics. I've lived in a once rural and now semi-rural (by my standards) farming area in central New York. Otsego County. I've been here 35 years. Up to two years ago nobody in my town sold diesel fuel Note that we are officially a "town" and have a food market, post-office, NAPA auto parts, bank, insurance place, hair salon, Stewarts mini-mart and gas station, motel and restaruant and a real estate office. Our town is considered one of the "bigger" ones for this area. There are many other towns in the area with one mini-mart, a bank and a post office and probably 9 out of 10 of those towns only sell gasoline. About every 5 miles there is one. Westford, Maryland, Schenevus, Fergusonville, Richmondville, East Worcester, Colliersville, Portalandville, Dorloo, Furanceville, Roseboom, etc. NO diesel. So up to a few years ago I'd have to drive a 50 mile round-trip to buy diesel at the nearest city of Oneonta or a 40 mile round-trip to a city in an adjacent county. No big deal since I've lived here for many years and know where to go. Besides, I have my own fuel tanks at home. Note also an Interstate highway runs through our town (Interstate # 88). If someone came here, was low on diesel fuel and did not know their way around - they could easily get into a jam. Being right on an Interstate, I suspect that is the reason why our local Stewarts shop just started selling diesel fuel. In the central Adirondacks - 120 miles from my home? Small towns are more scattered then here in central NY. More like 20 miles apart instead of 5. Last year - the one place we usually get diesel was shut down. Fairly big town of Speculator/Lake Pleasant. On a lake and a resort area and a state highway. NO diesel. Nearest town is Indian Lake where I live part time. Indian Lake is one of biggest towns in that area and only sells diesel on week days and only if you know where to go. The two min-mart/gas stations there do NOT sell diesel. A local heating oil and propane dealer does IF you happen to catch him there. The next nearest towns are North Creek and Blue Mountain Lake. NO diesel. Both are popular resort areas. I have no problems because again - I know my way around and never let my tanks get below half. A person coming to this part of the Adirondacks with a diesel and the mentality that they can buy fuel anywhere (like gasoline) could easily get into big trouble fast. Note that all these towns are on state highway and not backwoods dirt or corduroy roads. Michigan? In the northeast part of the Michigan upper peninsula - diesel is a big more scarce then I already described the central Adirondacks as being. Same for the northern tip of the lower peninsula. Now maybe - it just so happens that where our family travels just happens to be the only regions in the entire USA where one has to look hard for diesel. I doubt it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Your back peddling Jde, farmers drive dodge ram 2500 3500, dura max etc. nice try on changing to tractors to deflect, and it is illegal to put farm diesel in a truck. As to remote using diesel my cousins fishing lodge in Kenora Ontario has more water than land, some of the lodges can only be got to by boat or plane; they barge out a large diesel stash each year to run Wiley Point. As to boats; I think the Great Lakes locks and freighters would laugh at your comments, so would the deadliest catch guys; they ain't running gas. Face it; diesel is everywhere and who hasn't had a hard time finding gas at 3:am??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Your back peddling Jde, farmers drive dodge ram 2500 3500, dura max etc. nice try on changing to tractors to deflect, and it is illegal to put farm diesel in a truck. As to remote using diesel my cousins fishing lodge in Kenora Ontario has more water than land, some of the lodges can only be got to by boat or plane; they barge out a large diesel stash each year to run Wiley Point. As to boats; I think the Great Lakes locks and freighters would laugh at your comments, so would the deadliest catch guys; they ain't running gas. Face it; diesel is everywhere and who hasn't had a hard time finding gas at 3:am??? You lost me chief! Back-peddling? I think you have a reading-comprehension disorder. Linda commented . . . "Seems a bit strange that it would be that difficult to find diesel fuel. Lots of farm equipment runs on diesel." Note she said "farm equipment" and not whatever cars or trucks farmers happen to drive on public highways. My reply was to show how difficult it can be to run a farm and "farm equipment" by going back and forth to a gas station with portable fuel containers. And your comment about people on freighters would laugh at my comments? No they wouldn't. Not if they can read and comprehend American English. Seems you've really got a problem understanding the written word. Note - I stated "Never seen one in any of fresh water lakes I go to - except for the Great Lakes in Michigan e.g. Huron and Michigan." Note the word "except" in that statement. Note also my disclaimer "lakes that I go to." I did NOT say every lake in the USA. Also - most freighters do not use #2 diesel fuel like cars and trucks do. Most use MDO (marine diesel fuel) which is not legal to use in a car or pickup truck on a public highway. And even it if could be used legally - what good is freighter fuel at some coastline filling depot going to do some poor chump in an RV trying to buy fuel somewhere inland? Alpena Michigan and Rogers City Michigan (both places near me) have places for freighters to fill up. I cannot buy fuel there. So tell me - what exactly would a freighter person laugh at? My comments which are correct or your inability to read and lack of knowledge in regard to the various types of diesel fuels?? By the way - not that it matters but many farmers have gas powered pickup truck. Some even have cars. Why that matters to you either way - I haven't got a clue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Funny I don't remember saying anything about farm equipment but hey I'm old. I do think it's strange that all the big overland vehicles on Expedition Portal are all diesel. Unimogs, Earthroamers, Earth Cruisers, Tiger Siberian's. all made for hitting the farthest off road you can get and all diesel. Guess they just have big gas tanks and plan ahead Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Funny I don't remember saying anything about farm equipment but hey I'm old. I do think it's strange that all the big overland vehicles on Expedition Portal are all diesel. Unimogs, Earthroamers, Earth Cruisers, Tiger Siberian's. all made for hitting the farthest off road you can get and all diesel. Guess they just have big gas tanks and plan ahead Linda S Sorry - I meant to say "Karin" as in "Karin Corbin." There are two women that seem to prominent on these forums. For some reason - I meant to write "Karin" but wrote "Linda" instead. Hopefully not some sort of Freudian slip. I don't REALLY think all women are the same and I don't intentionally interchange names. The Turtle expedition team is one I've followed for years and one of the first on the Net I became aware of. They started travelling remote areas of the world in a Land Rover, Then Ford diesel RVs, and not sure where they're at now. They told MANY stories of the awful problems they had with either not being able to get any diesel fuel - or getting fuel that wasn't very compatible with their rig. Types of diesel fuel vary a lot around the world. That's why the US military had such horrible problems with US diesels being used in Iraq and Afghanistan They even have problems using US grade JP8 military fuel in GM diesels. Too thin and not enough inherent lube. http://turtleexpedition.com/vehicles/ Not sure why some on this forum (namely Totem) wish to argue a simple and obvious observation of mine . Diesel fuel (for highway vehicles) is nowhere as easy to find as gasoline in rural areas and that is easily proven in many ways. Not usually problem if someone plans ahead. My point though is - many US drivers used to gas vehicles do not plan ahead since gasoline is so common just about anywhere. People not acquainted with diesel also may not realize that freighters on the great lakes (attention Totem) or farm tractors generally to not use fuel that is legal to use in a diesel car, truck, or RV. Oh - in case Totem now brings up diesel railroad engines - they also have their own special fuel and it is not only illegal to use in a highway vehicle - it is also so thick it won't pass through the fuel filters in cool temps. US cars and trucks are required to run #1 or #2 ultra-low sulfur diesel with NO dye and lube additives put in. Where I live in NY - up to a year or so ago off-roaders and farmers were allowed to run home heating oil in tractors and trucks. No more. Now most use "farm fuel" which is medium-low sulfur, dyed, and has no highway tax on it. Not available at any fuel station I've ever seen in NY. It IS available to the public in Michigan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Lol, you were the one that stated boats don't use diesel..my topic was vehicles owned by at the very least farmers, but mostly logistics; tow trucks, cube trucks, milk trucks, small delivery etc. I read as well as you ad hominem apparently. Diesel is NOT difficult to find for most that don't drive a vehicle to fumes in bfe at 3:00 am, that's about all you have said that I was able to understand. The rest is far above my level of reading comprehension; I was never able to get 3 out of 1+1 in preschool either though so democratic math also escapes me...:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Lol, you were the one that stated boats don't use diesel..my topic was vehicles owned by at the very least farmers, but mostly logistics; tow trucks, cube trucks, milk trucks, small delivery etc. I read as well as you ad hominem apparently. Diesel is NOT difficult to find for most that don't drive a vehicle to fumes in bfe at 3:00 am, that's about all you have said that I was able to understand. The rest is far above my level of reading comprehension; I was never able to get 3 out of 1+1 in preschool either though so democratic math also escapes me...:-) I never - ever -stated that "boats don't use diesel." Your are doing a poor job of trying to twist my words around and/or add a few that I never stated. This forum does not rely on "memory" of what "might" of been said. It is ALL still there in digital print. Go ahead. Find even one instance where I said anything like that. You won't. That tells me either you've got some kind of reading-comp problem or - you are willing to add your own commentary to my sentences with your own BS in an effort to ostensibly win a point. Also - you claim I'm the making ad hominem attacks? What to you call it when you repeatedly attempt to claim - on a public forum that I said things when I clearly did not? Doing it once can be an honest mistake. Like you did on the other forum when you accused me of saying something about Jesse Ventura and then found out it was a different poster. But - my alleged boat statements? It's obvious I said NO such thing since it's all here in print. That to me is clearly a personal "ad hominem" attack. Why you insist on doing so, I do not now. All I can figure is - your argument is so weak - you have to fabricate sentences that you wish I'd said - but did not. If you had the ability and where-with-all to acknowledge your mistake - call it as such this could all be dropped. It's a total waste of time. Yet - you cling to your fantasy. Note again - my statement: " . . .diesel boats? Never seen one in any of fresh water lakes I go to - except for the Great Lakes in Michigan e.g. Huron and Michigan. " YOU claim that I stated: "Lol, you were the one that stated boats don't use diesel" Totem - what you are doing is childish and absurd. I acknowledged the presence of diesel boats in the Great Lakes (where I often go) and also stated I've never seen diesels in any of the other fresh water lakes I got to. That was and still is true. I never stated that NO boats use diesel fuel. I've probably been on and repaired more diesel boats then you've seen out on the water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Deadliest Catch Guys are from my neighborhood! We went to get breakfast at the tavern just up the street about a month ago and could not get in because they had the film crew in there. The sailboat I call home has a diesel engine. Don't think I could drive a motorhome up to the fuel dock though but I could fill up a can and take that to a car . As I stated earlier - marine diesel as well as farm diesel is illegal to use in a car or truck driven on a public road. But it certainly can get you out of a bind if you don't mind taking the chance. I've done it many times with heating oil. There are been several presidential "waivers" when areas in the USA were given temporary permission to use marine diesel in cars and trucks - like during the big hurricane in Louisiana. My neighbor got fined $10,000 last winter when the "diesel police" came to his saw-mill. He got busted for using heating oil to run his electric generator (makes 3 phase power for his mill) and also for having farm-diesel in his new Duramax pickup truck and RV. The scary parts was - these "police" enterered his private property without a warrant and busted him. It's very common for police to catch people on the road using illegal diesel. But this is the first I've heard of them entering private property. Maybe because he has a business there selling sawed lumber? Some people have also been busted for driving on public roads with vegetable oil. That is questionable. Jimmy Carter signed into law a sort-of waiver for consumers during the oil-embargo. In short . . it allows an individual to manufactur a small amount of "home brew" fuel and use it with no penalties. X amount of gallons per year are allowed but I don't recall the figure. One other note on the subject of diesel cars and trucks. If someone runs a gas car or truck empty -all that needs to be done is put some fuel in the tank and start it. Many diesels do NOT work that way. With many -especially mechanical injection systems -there are a series of steps that need to be taken to bleed the air out of the system before the engine will restart. Often the battery (or battteries) will go dead before it can be accomplished unless someone really knows what they are doing. By the way Karin - you mentioned a lack of European diesels in the USA. Ford (the last remaining American car company) has announced they will be selling Transit vans in the USA in 2014 with European five-cylinder 3.4 liter diesel from South Africa. Engines will be sent here and vans put together in the US. Very common in Europe. RV makers are already gearing up to use them. Won't affect me though - unless I life long enough to buy one used. Several car companies are going to attempt once again to use Japanese or European small diesels in mid-size and light vehicles here. I suspect it will be another flop -but who knows? GM has also been working on a small diesel that runs on gasoline instead of diesel fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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