Has anyone upgraded to 130 amp alternator

[zero]

. I also agree with JDE; the reasons for high output alternator is to support heavy draw appliances/inverters... has 0 to do with charging batteries.

My Blazer-Chalet and my Blazer-Halmark RVs both have 120 amp alternators swapped in which is not considered "HUGE" anymore. Not when little mini vans are leaving the factory with 160 amp units.,

I have several inverters in all my rigs. My Chalet has a 2000 watt (4000 surge) mod-wave and a 3000 watt (5500 watt surge) sine-wave. I can run any hand-held power tool and built an entire house plugged into my RV. That included a pancake air compressor to power a nail gun and a Makita 15 amp saw. I chose NOT to use a portable generator since I don't like having the engine running all day. Using an inverter off a battery bank allows a lot of use with no engine noise. Once the batteries get low - I start the engine to recharge. Often I don't need to do it until I'm driving somewhere any way. In that case, a smaller 50-60 amp alternator is fine.

But - having a large alternator allows the engine to recharge a battery bank with the engine running quietly at idle-speed. So in that case - it IS used for battery charging. Is it necesarry? No. The same work a large alternator does with the engine at idle speed can be done with the stock alternator if you keep the engine revved up high. I prefer a quietly running engine at idle speed.

Obviously having all this inverter power is not just for camping. It makes my RVs mobile AC power rigs without needing a stand-alone generator. I've never alluded to the idea that everybody ought to have one. But for some people - it works nicely. Same with a larger alternator.

It's pretty simple math. A stock alternator on a Toyota can only make 25-30 amps with the engine idling. A larger alternator can make 50-60 amps with the engine idling. This means that if you're parked and have a battery bank to recharge, or a heavy appliance to run - you can do it without revving up the engine (as would be needed with the stock 45-60 amp alternator). It also allows me to use my microwave at full heat due to the extra 50 amps (700 watts) being made with the engine idling. By my definition - being able to get a high rate of amps at engine idle speed and run microwave at full heat with no discrete genset are both "tangible" gains.

I still fail to comprehend why this subject has become more of an argument then a technical discussion. Or why a discrete genset to make power is fine but a multipurpose dynamo hooked to the truck engine is somehow taboo?? There are pros and cons with just about anything. When it comes to an alternator swap - I guess a person must ask him/her self why? If it's for the reasons I described - then maybe it's a good idea for you. If not - then don't opt for it. Pretty simple.

[waiter]

Bob, JD,

I don't think anyone was arguing (I wasn't) As everyone has pointed out, unless your doing something out of the ordinary, you probably don't need it. I believe you said you had a 12 volt compressor frig, thats out of the ordinary for a Toyhouse :-)

You could probably benefit from the higher amp alternator, You might also want to look at your converter, and consider upgrade it to supply the higher current when your on shore power.

Thats a great thing about this site, there is such a vast range of knowledge and experience, you'll defiantly come away with options you never thought of.

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[Boots]

I found a direct replacement alternator that puts out 130 amp, bolts right in, and uses all of the Toyota electrical hookups. It works with the stock gauges and idiot lights.

I will be making the following changes:

1. New battery isolator (relay style) rated at 200 am

2. New circuit breaker leading to the coach battery-manual reset, rated for 150 amp

3. New 4 gauge wire leading from isolator to circuit breaker and from circuit breaker to coach battery

I decided on this approach because I want more charging capacity and I did not like the idea of switching over to the GM alternator. I would have had to buy a GM unit, mounting bracket, adapter for wire harness, etc.

I was able to get the isolator and circuit breaker on line pretty cheap. The alternator was a little pricy but the total cost was only about 7$75 more than a used alt and all of the brackets & adapters.

I will let you know how everything works. I also am adding a volt meter on the dash that reads the coach battery voltage so that I can keep track of everything. I have a 12 compressor refrigerator that works great but pretty much maxed out the charging capacity of the stock alt.

Hi Dan,

I too am considering this, and agree with everything you are saying. I think are things that you might to do before proceeding. First off most stock (engine) batteries are rated around 660 to 900 CCA (cold crank amps) and that means that if you install a larger output alternator, you will exceed the recommended maximum input for the battery (stock battery) which is 10% of CCA -as an example 660CCA at 10% is 66amps input and if the regulator voltage is off you will receive up to 130 amps continuously, until......you overheat the battery and it fails dramatically or catches fire or splits wide open. Secondly if your battery cable connectors are old, damaged or making poor contact, you could ended up with a fire or frying the regulator and other components. So replace the connections, and cables, particularly the ground ( I would investigate adding a secondary ground cable directly to frame.

I recommended purchasing a digital multimeter, with a clamp jaws, so that you can measure your present setup for current draw. Go about it systematically, and start with one appliance at a time, measure, then add second load, measure and then goto the next until till you have full load calculated, look at this and then determine what you need. Base your upgrade on the maximum load, plus a safety factor. As an alternate, there are several DC monitoring systems on the market that buy and install, which will tell you things like voltage, DC amperage draw and input charge, hours left on battery and even one that has a coach battery temperature sensor and alarm, that would give you real time information, and long term piece of mind. As a final thought, if you overcharge a battery and take it back for warranty it will be refused, because of abuse. That is an expensive way to solve your problems

[zero]

First off most stock (engine) batteries are rated around 660 to 900 CCA (cold crank amps) and that means that if you install a larger output alternator, you will exceed the recommended maximum input for the battery (stock battery) which is 10% of CCA -as an example 660CCA at 10% is 66amps input and if the regulator voltage is off you will receive up to 130 amps continuously, until . . .

A standard Toyota Denso 45 or 60 amp alternator can fry a battery fast if locked at max charge - which I doubt even will happen with an electronic regulator. Also - if using a voltmeter inside the cab - I know I'd notice it read 16 volts instead of 14. Many alternators can put out a lot more then their published max ratings. Often an alternator rated for 60 amps can make 80-90 amps for a short while until the rectifiers fry. I just tested a Denso 160 amp alternator and it was able to put our 220 amps @ 15 volts.

Most RVs have at least two batteries and not one. Many have three or four (especially diesels). Regardless of battery "bank" size - the charge current is regulated by voltage sensing and field current control and a 200 amp alternator charges a battery just as safely as a 45 amp alternator. If you fear that a failed regulator will fry a battery - then what do you think happens when a stock Toyota 45-60 amp alternator "fails" in the way you describe?? The reality is - it probably NEVER happens. Maybe there is an exception out there somewhere - but after repairing alternators since the early 70s - I have never yet came across an electronic regulator that failed and caused a max-charge situation. Failure usually results in a "no charge" scenario. With mechanical regulators using breaker-points - yes, I've seen a few get stuck due to fried and almost welded contacts.

Max charge rate is usually figured either by battery temperature or 10-13% of it's amp-hour capacity at 70 degrees F. A typical BCI type 27 deep-cycle battery is rated at 115 amp-hours and calls for a 15 amp max charge rate. Two of them is 30 amps. Two of them plus one starting battery is around 45 amps. My Chevy Blazer-Chalet has two cranking batteries and two Trojan T-105 house batteries. Max total charge rate of 60 amps.

All kind of moot as I see it. If your engine oil pump or reg. fails and you keep driving- you burn your engine up. If your cooling system fails and you keep driving - you sieze or crack your engine. These things DO happen. If an electronic regulator fails in the charging system -chances are you get NO charge at all. No immediate damage. If you've got a mechanical reg- and it gets "welded closed" you'd see the voltmeter slowing climb up high or the amp-meter show a large charge rate.

I can conjure up many valid reasons why someone may not want a larger alternator but ruining batteries is not one of them.

The reality is - you can buy a 140-160 amp alternator for near the same price as a stock 45/60 amp unit and it's not very hard to swap one in. The larger alternator allows better charging at lower RPMs.

[Bob C]

The 12 volt refrigerator that I installed came out of a boat and draws 3 amps. I don't think that is an excessive power draw for the RV. The frig can run at angles up to 30 degrees off level so I don't have to be even close to run it.

I replaced the original converter with a 45 amp Progressive Dynamics Inteli-Power unit. Model 9225. When I first got the Rv, I plugged it into 120 and the original converter got so hot that I could not touch it. It was quickly replaced. I did my checking before I replaced the coach battery with a series 27 deep cycle.

Yesterday I installed a digital voltmeter with a double pole double throw (center off) switch so that I can check my voltage while driving. Switch up engine voltage, down coach voltage, center off. The set-up was put together with stuff that I had sitting in the garage.

[waiter]

Bob, if your drawing 3 amps on the frig, I believe you'll do just fine on the stock alternator.

A small 3 way frig (110volt, 12 volts, propane) draws about 8-10 amps at 12 volts. These use a heating element to heat up the Ammonia boiler tube. draws about 1 amp at 110volts

You need to be extra careful to shut off the frig when battery gets low. Should be able to come up with a low voltage monitor or even a trip circuit that would trip off at low voltage.

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[zero]

The 12 volt refrigerator that I installed came out of a boat and draws 3 amps. I don't think that is an excessive power draw for the RV. The frig can run at angles up to 30 degrees off level so I don't have to be even close to run it.

Sounds like you've got something like a 2 cubic inch Norcold? I've got two of them an love them. Used on many boats and standard on Winnebago Lesharos and Phasars. Draws 3.2 amps @ 12 volts when running. Draws around 2 amps per hour on average at 70 degrees F. So, in theory - a type 27 "house" battery can run it safely for 50 hours of use before a recharge is needed. If you install it in a box with an extra 2" of polyiso insulation - it can be made to run at an average of 1 amp per hour.

[Bob C]

It is a Norcold about 2 cu ft. When I installed it, I added 2 inches of pink styrofoam on the top and sides. It is really nice to have ice cold beverages when it is hot outside.

[craige]

Worked at a job site that refurbishes train cars for Canada. Got some scrap 2/0 fine strand wire and crimps. Replaced all of my cables from cab battery to house battery. Cant argue with the price.

[zero]

Good deal. 2/0 copper isn't cheap and what is used OEM on most of my diesel tractors. My solar battery bank has 4/0 .

[Bob C]

I hope to take a trip shortly. I can't believe that after retiring and working part time, my wife and I are more busy than when I worked full time. I have run everything on short trip[s and things seem to be ok. I'll let you know.

By the way, thanks for all of the help from everyone at this site. It makes working on these older rigs a whole lot easier when you can learn from other people's mistakes and experiences instead of having to make all of the mistakes on your own dime.

[douglitas]

reading this topic to research solutions to our present problem of not having enough battery power to run the furnace all night. we have a 87 Seabreeze and we put a DEKA 12V 79AH coach battery in it 8 mo ago. RV repair guy says not enough juice in this batt to last the night so considering adding another batt to bank. Also considering the high power Alternators mentioned in the above discussions.

My main question (after reading all the above) is can you upgrade to an larger capacity alternator that doesn't require a larger fan belt? We presently have just the stock alternator that came with the truck. hoping to get enough charge from driving the vehicle to charge up the batteries enough to last the night. We have a large solar panel we can use for subsequent nights without running the engine.

also RV repair guy says gel batteries are harder for stock alt to charge..ever heard of that?

thanks!

[WME]

IF you have a solenoide isolater, here's a simple trick to get every erg of energy to the house battery.

Just hook the house battery and the alterator out put to the same side, the truck battery goes to the other side.

The isolater still works as designed, but now the house battery gets priority charging. As long as your truck starts in normal Toyota fashion the truck battery will be charged just fine.

[douglitas]

I ordered and recieved the 140A alternator kit linked above in this thread...$300 delivered! no room for it in my 87 22re engine compartment what with radiators, AC, power steering etc. Also, incomplete directions on how to hook it up. they only give you one wire to hook from Alt to batt...but nothing to connect to the dash lights etc. My expert mechanic friend says it won't do..so going with stock alt. ($65)

[darrel]

The higher the amperage of a alternator the more power it takes to turn the alternator, hence lower gas mileage. Just sit in your driver seat with the engine running, normal temp, and at an idle. Now turn on the headlights and listen to how much the engine RPM dropped, thats gas mileage. We routinely dry camp and run the heater and lights all nite and still have battery power even for another nite. Got a 27 series battery from wal-mart and considering a 29 series, it has a few more amps. Darrel

[Derek up North]

I'll agree that a 140amp alternator putting out it's maximum 140amps will use more gas than a 65amp alternator putting out 65amps. But if you've only got (say) a 45amp load, will the 140amp alternator use more than a 65amp alternator? I'm not sure!

[darrel]

dont know either.

[Derek up North]

http://www.fuel-saver.org/Thread-ALTERNATOR-DRAG-HOW-MUCH-HP-DRAIN

[WME]

A single vbelt on a 2" pulley will handle around 1 hp. Thats about 750 watts. On a 1.5" pulley only 1/3 hp, a 4" pulley about 3 hp.

So plan accordingly.

[Maineah]

About 746 watts to the HP in a perfect world. Alternators are not perfect but the stock alt is close to one hp at max output. So the question is how far are you going and how dead is your battery? Do you need the extra wattage? The answer probably not.You start adding extra batteries and a heavy load parked maybe you should look into a bigger alt. and a drive system that won't slip the stock set up won't cut it they slip unless the belt is damn tight all ready the alt needs about 3600 rpm for max output. My stock system had no problem charging the truck battery and a 100 amp deep cycle but I didn't watch TV play on the computer run the heat and a microwave until 2 in the morning.

[douglitas]

my efforts are aimed at solving the problem of getting the heater to work all night. I have a 79AH gel batt and seems it won't relight the heater after about 4 hrs. There are a lot of variables here..but heater's got a new blower motor, new thermostat, new gel batt, now replacing isolater and alt. and adding an additional 79AH batt to give me 158AH.

my reasoning was if the high output alt runs at idle it can put out 70amps and charge batt in less time than the stock alt.

[stamar]

ya and also if you are using all of your batteries juice regularly your battery will have a very short lifespan, so youll need a high amp alternator to recharge it faster...

I can remember being there last winter and it just didnt work. by the time you are idling your car 2 hours a day to recharge batteries you may as well hit a motel room.

not that doubling the alternator amps wont cut that in half its still ridiculously expensive electricity.

you are much better off investing two ways one is a propane only heater thats safe, or on the opposite end get a generator just for recharging batteries.

the truth is as it stands that heater is just not made for daily off grid life it is highly electrical. It is made for a short weekend trip and regular plug in.

I definitely got some unsafe heat by heating up pots and pans on the propane stove and of course theres the radiator cab heater to pitch in too.

[Maineah]

A 130 hp generator to make a 1000 watts is not very efficient. You may as well add a hot water heater to the coach and use the engines heat. The heaters use about 6 amps so 4 hours worth 32 amp hours running full time and the figure is probably more like 15 min per hour what is the draw down time on the battery's rating in amp hours?

[darrel]

If you can get a larger deep cycle battery in your compartment, say a 27 or 29 series you'll have more amps to play with. I took out the suburban heater which drew 2.8 amps and put in a hydro-flame which draws 1.8 amps, have a 27 series battery and run the heater to maintain 60 degrees at nite. It is good for 2-3 nites at 23 degrees outside. I also have changed all the inside light bulbs to led. I do not run a tv or radio. The battery does charge up with about 2 hr of running around.

[stamar]

Ill go as far as to say that thefurnace in a dolphin was designed primarily for being plugged in and will actually kill your deep cycle in one night off grid. Thesmarter cold weather rvers have a low electric mr buddy and use the furnace to pitch in

[douglitas]

went with the stock alt. I do have a large solar panel to charge during daylight hours...245 W...around 15A. We have the Hydroflame unit. we'll be checking the new layout's performance in the coming week, now that nighttime temps are in the 30s. We do have a Mr Buddy heater that we bought for tent camping and actually used it the first night we camped in the Seabreeze. It really makes a bad smell!

[stamar]

It sounds to me like you are a complete expert on non generator toyhome heating you have everything. If you have the electricity use the furnace and if you dont or it gets colder use the mr buddy or both.

I wish there was someone out there who has it all down better than you but you have it all.

Better insulation and different heaters might not smell as much.

[stamar]

245 watts should be 20 amps exactly. I wasnt sure if the amps are figured out by the 12 volts or thr 12.5 that its charging with. But its just watts by volts.

[douglitas]

the panel charges at around 15 volts.(I was thinking 16 when I posted the above) so 245 divided by 15 = around 16A.

[douglitas]

Actually, the solar panel charge voltage is regulated by how low the battery is when you begin to charge it. So if your battery is discharged to 12.0V, the current from panel like mine would be 20A! as the battery charged and got to the 15V level, the current would diminish to 16A. (at least that's the way it was explained to me).

[Maineah]

Actually, the solar panel charge voltage is regulated by how low the battery is when you begin to charge it. So if your battery is discharged to 12.0V, the current from panel like mine would be 20A! as the battery charged and got to the 15V level, the current would diminish to 16A. (at least that's the way it was explained to me).

What one needs to understand is a solar panel's rating are based on high noon at the equator. If the panels are flat the only time they may come close is at noon. So in the morning the efficiency is poor and the same goes for the afternoon. When a battery is discharged it's resistance goes up so yes the panel controller will try to output it's max whatever that might be but you'll never see max output. In order to produce 20 amps you need to see voltage to match and that requires sun light. When you check amp output from a panel you are short circuiting the panel with an ammeter. If the voltage is not there neither are the amps. The controllers are voltage based not current they take care of extra voltage by making heat. Don't get me wrong I think a solar panel with a properly outfitted MH is absolutely the way to go but if your MH is an energy hog to begin with the amount of panels necessary to offset that might be prohibitive. My panel is 100 watt rated it is portable I can turn it and change the elevation that does make it far more efficient at making power but if I am using more than it can make I just wasted the money I spent on the panel.

[Stevo]

Have you guys seen brackets for roof top mounted solar panels that will allow you to manually tilt them in all four directions but then lay flat when on the road?

[douglitas]

I have a 30' cable for my panel. I park in the shade and prop the panel up 90 degrees to the sun. after an hour goes by I adjust the angle and keep the panel directed at the sun. so far I haven't seen the necessity to use a controller.

[Maineah]

I have a 30' cable for my panel. I park in the shade and prop the panel up 90 degrees to the sun. after an hour goes by I adjust the angle and keep the panel directed at the sun. so far I haven't seen the necessity to use a controller.

You do realize the panels are capable of voltages in excess of 20 volts. Maybe your 30' cable is your voltage regulator.

[Stevo]

And I've been thinking about movable panels too because what if I found a nice spot under a tree to stay for a while to escape the hot brutal tropical sun? The ultimate setup for me would be a couple flat mounted rooftop panels with brackets that enable them to tilt in any direction but with quick release connections for the cables and mounting brackets so I can easily take them off the roof and place em over there in the sun. I could have another cable input in the lower side of the motorhome body where the extra long cable could plug into. Does anyone have some ideas for how to make that possible?

I have a 30' cable for my panel. I park in the shade and prop the panel up 90 degrees to the sun. after an hour goes by I adjust the angle and keep the panel directed at the sun. so far I haven't seen the necessity to use a controller.