picklebill Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Hi all - I am hearing what I think is bearing noise from the rear axle. I also want to check the rear brakes and repack the bearings - so the first thing I went to do was remove the axle shaft. According to the book, you first remove the six flange retaining nuts and then tap the flange to loosen the "cone washers" on each stud. I did this and the washers did not budge. The next step in the book is to thread 2 "service bolts" into the threaded holes in the flange and use them to separate the flange from the hub. What is the size and thread pitch of these bolts? I don't want to screw the threads up in the holes as I think that would really screw things up - they are pretty rusted as it is. Can you leave the cone washers in place and still pull the flange away from the hub? Thanks for any help you guys can give me! Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bufbooth Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Hello Bill, last month I pulled my alxes. You have to get the cone washers out, the alxe will not come out with them in. You just have to keep on tapping on the back side of the axle with a hammer and the vibration will get them out. The bolts are metric, I think they were 8mm, standard thread. They should screw in easy for you. Be sure to check for rear diff. fuild leaks into the wheel bearing. The Toyota rear bearing are grease packed and the rear diff. fuild stop just outside of the brake area. If you need parts, Advance Auto carries the brake pads and all of the axle seals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keitholivier Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 Bill, what you have ahead of you is a real SOB job. I pulled one of my axles to get a look at the rear brakes and it was a b**ch getting the cone washers out. Ideally you want a soft steel drift that will engage the edge of the outer drive flange (because of the drum behind the axle it is not a really great angle). Then hit the drift with one of those "dead impact" hammers. Just 1 hit then go on to the spot between the next set of bolts and give that a whack and so on. Forget about the service bolts. I found that the thread for the service bolts was so corroded that I sheared off both 8.8 fasteners that I bought to do this and that was before they even started cracking open the joint. In my case, I spent several hours before I was done. I took several breaks and went inside to regain my composure (and sanity). I applied penetrating oil to the studs after removing the nuts and let it sit overnight. Once you actually get one of the cone washers to move the motivation recovers a little. The reason I say to not keep whacking in one spot is that if anything gets a little skew it can jam everything tighter than ever. After you get everything apart, you will want to check the cone washers for damage and remove burrs and dings with a needle file. I didn't have a replacement gasket, so I used the "make a gasket", tightened the nuts (with just 1 cone washer) very light until the permatex had time to set, then installed the balance of the cone washers and tightened down everything. No leaks after 3000 miles + of driving.... Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 I didn't find it to be a hard job,I did make a tool to remove the adjustment nut. The cone washers will like to fly off maybe put the nuts on the studs so you don't lose them.like all jobs the first time seems hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picklebill Posted June 23, 2007 Author Share Posted June 23, 2007 Keith, Tom and Bufbooth - Thank you all for the great info on my axle problem. I finally bit the bullet and took it to a shop nearby who I have dealt with before and is real good. I did have a bad wheel bearing and also a bad brake cylinder. I worked at it for a couple of hours tapping the back of the axle flange but could not get it to move. I finally decided that I would have someone who has done the job before do it before I screwed it up so bad it couldn't be fixed. This axle is only 12 years old and has less than 20,000 miles on it so I was surprised the bearing had failed. I did find that the diff. vent was totally clogged (thanks to a heads up from Shoprat) which may have been part of the problem. All is well now, and thanks to the great info from you guys, the next time I will do this job myself! Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88WIT Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 (I did find that the diff. vent was totally clogged (thanks to a heads up from Shoprat) which may have been part of the problem.) Quote I checked the differential fluid level recently, and had vacuum or pressure released as the plug loosened up. The level was too high and I'll let it run out to the lip of the opening. Can't say for sure whether I had road tested the vehicle yet that day or not. There's also very noticeable bleeding around the vent and down and along the housing (no drip, just an obvious dampness). Should the vent be always atmospheric with no buildup, or is it a gradual release? I've got another axle with a vent I can raid if necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88WIT Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Be sure to check for rear diff. fuild leaks into the wheel bearing. The Toyota rear bearing are grease packed and the rear diff. fuild stop just outside of the brake area. If you need parts, Advance Auto carries the brake pads and all of the axle seals. Since I'll one day upgrade the rear brakes, I'd better be prepared. My Toyota manual exploded view doesn't show an outer seal, but the installation sketch shows an outer seal lip being greased. Is there actually an outer seal? What advantage is the grease-packed design over a fluid-bath design, especially given the maintenance headache for something so basic as wheel bearings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keitholivier Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 Bill I'm sure that anyone who does this kind of work often will have a "modified crowbar" that they use together with a suitable spacer to crack those cone washers free. It is always amazing how easy the Pro's make things look. This weekend I have been fitting a new engine in my garden tractor and one of the things I needed to do was drill 4x 1" holes in a 1/4" thick steel mounting plate. After trying to work out how I was going to do that I bought a floor standing drill press and a 1" drill bit and I was done in about 1/2 hour (including measuring, calculating, marking etc..) Of course after I had the engine mounted to the plate with the neat rubber isolators and did a trial fit in the frame, I found that I need to make a PTO adapter for the flywheel end of the engine (for some reason the input shaft to my hydrostatic transmission rotates the opposite direction to all engines on the market). Now since I don't have a lathe and it was late Saturday afternoon, the project is stuck again. I'm thinking of getting one of those $400 mini lathes since by the time I'm done with this re-power and made brackets etc for fitting the GM V6 in my MH all of my equipment would have paid for itself as compared to trying to get someone to make the bits for me.... good luck Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picklebill Posted June 25, 2007 Author Share Posted June 25, 2007 Hi 88WIT - The sound of pressure or vacuum being released when you pull the fill plug is a good indication that the vent is clogged. It has a cap on it which on my axle did not move when I tried to wiggle it. I took a small rubber mallet and tapped it a few times and it loosened right up and a bunch of dirt fell out of it. It has stayed loose ever since and I have detected no pressure or vacuum buildup since. There used to be a thread on here that had a great explanation of the advantage/disadvantages between the fluid lubed bearings and the sealed grease lubed bearings Toyota uses. As I recall, one of the problems of the fluid lubed bearings is that if the Diff. vent gets clogged and the pressure builds up in the differential housing, it forces the fluid past the inner bearing seal and ruins the brake linings. I can't find the thread that has the information, but I believe it was Shoprat who wrote it - hopefully he will see this thread and respond. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88WIT Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Thanks Bill; Come to think of it, I buried that side of the axle last year and never thought of the vent. I'll get on it. Downey Off Road has a vent kit intended for 4X4s that gets it out of harms way for 'wet crossings.' That was a reasonable explanation for the grease-lubed bearing. Steve R. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoprat Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Ahhhh. I hear the word " Shoprat" and I repond like a dog being called to supper ! Yup, I remember the thread on the rear axle vent. I worked as a mechanic for a school bus system and all the rear axles were fluid lubed bearings. As the busses were used on rural gravel roads, the vents would clog with mud. These vents were like a short mushroom shaped pipe on top of the axle with a loose fitting metal cup turned upside down on top of the pipe. The cup edges were rolled under the mushroom , allowing the built up pressure to escape but keeping dirt out of the axle. Mud would pack around it, sealing it off. We cleaned and cleaned on these things, but the vents would plug, then fluid would be pushed throgh the seals to the brake area. Talk about a mess. Not to mention rather expensive brake shoes being ruined. We finally solved the problem by removing the inverted cups and attaching a piece of hose to the pipe. We led the hose up to the frame and attached it there, directing the loose end of the hose downward. This downward bend kept the hose clear and so the axle was vented. We just had to make sure we allowed enough hose length to accomodate the verticle movement of the rear axle. Pretty cheap fix, a length of hose, a hose clamp to affix hose to vent pipe, and VOILA, no more snotty brake shoes. Yeah, I know, snotty isn't a nice word. Cleaning up after a vent plug clog wasn't nice either. I will now go and bleach my brain to eliminate icky ol' memories. A case or three should do it ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88WIT Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 The axle vent is a spring-loaded check valve. I took mine apart after checking it -- no clog, simply one-way. Loose metal cap; thin, filament-like spring; flat rubber disc; slightly concave seat on the threaded fitting. When I removed it for testing it had held vacuum for five days. I drained about a pint of differential oil to the proper level. Will watch for bleeding. Anybody want to check theirs to see if they also have a vacuum condition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bufbooth Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Hello All, Where exactly is the Diff. Vent located? What does it look like? I think mine might be clogged. I pulled the axles in May to inspect the brakes and noticed my left axle oil seal leaking into the brake area. I replaced the seal and last week I noticed that my right side axle was leaking into the brake area. Last night (7/5), I pulled the right side axle and replaced the seal, but have not driven on it yet. I just read this clogged vent thread and thought to myself that maybe that is the reason I have two oil seals fail in such a short amount of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88WIT Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 On an '88, before the model change to your vintage, it's just left of center, slightly forward of top dead center. Small hex fitting. You should be able to blow out through it, but not suck in. An earlier note in this thread commented that your type of leak shouldn't happen with a greased-bearing set up. Perhaps it means the 89s-on are oil bath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88WIT Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 On an '88, before the model change to your vintage, it's just left of center, slightly forward of top dead center. Small hex fitting. You should be able to blow out through it, but note suck in. An earlier note in this thread commented that your type of leak shouldn't happen with grease-packed bearings. Perhaps this means the 89s-on are oil bath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 Where exactly is the Diff. Vent located? What does it look like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88WIT Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 Mike; Is that the diesel or the gas job? Do you have the anti-sway bar removed for painting? Steve R. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bufbooth Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 Hello, I found the diff. vent and removed it (12mm on my 91). It was covered in oil / mud, but looked like it was still working. I used carb cleaner to clean it up and then dry it out with some compressed air. Seems to work okay, the cap is spring loaded. Maybe my outer oil seal failed due to the age, they might of been original. Thanks, Dennis... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 Is that the diesel or the gas job?Do you have the anti-sway bar removed for painting? Steve R. Diesel... No rear sway. Not needed with 9 rear leaf springs and Bilstein shocks. I can't even move the coach body side to side no matter how hard I push on it. The diesel corners like a sports car (much better then the 1991 Sunrader) the reason it is up is because I blew a seal in one of the front Bilsteins and had the front up on stands to take them off. While it was up I decided to do a brake job which turned into new brakes (new calipers). While it was up I decided to touch up the under coating which lead to the rear end being up so I could take that pic. The repaired shocks should be back here on Tuesday so it can go back down on all 4 paws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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