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How much can it tow?


Jeffro

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I'm looking at buying a 1987 Toyota Motorhome with the 2.4L Fuel injected. I want to pull my Polaris RZR with it and was wondering if its possible? My RZR weighs 1100 pounds plus a 5x10 trailer so it should weigh under 1500 pounds? Do you think it could pull it or not? Let me know, thanks a lot for your help!

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Towing is not really recomended for any Toyota motorhome . That said I have seen a v6 model that towed a Smart car, 1600lbs, with no problems. It was a Sunrader though and they have very strong frame extensions.

I also know another Sunrader owner who towed a 1000lb trailer but an 18ft one so his motorhome weighed much less than a 21 foot conventionally built one. 1500 lbs is probably pushing the limits of that engine and you need to look at your frame extensions. Different makers used different ones and some are stronger than others.

LS

I'm looking at buying a 1987 Toyota Motorhome with the 2.4L Fuel injected. I want to pull my Polaris RZR with it and was wondering if its possible? My RZR weighs 1100 pounds plus a 5x10 trailer so it should weigh under 1500 pounds? Do you think it could pull it or not? Let me know, thanks a lot for your help!

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Every thing is about maxed on the Toy home just moving it around it's a half ton truck that weights 6,000#. Remember you have to stop this thing too and as you probably have noticed they don't stop any too quick then add another 3/4 ton and the breaking goes down hill fast. There is no way you could pull any thing with out doing some extensive welding, the frame extensions to hold the back end of the MH up are not strong enough for any hitch weight over 100#.

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i think 1500 lbs is really pushing it. as maineah says, even if you can get it rolling, you also need to get it stopped. i plan on sometime dragging a light motorcycle behind me on a very light trailer, but, that is around 500 lbs total. some wouldn't even consider doing that.

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  • 1 month later...

Was hoping to pull a light trailer with a 650 Motorcycle, (weight should be 750 lbs) on a 1990 Itasca, v-6. From other messages I've had the frame rewelded with an overlap of 1 foot on either side of the joint (it was welded end to end) to strengthen the back 3 feet of coach. Brakes are in good shape and now there are just two of us total weight carried in RV is way down (used to be 2 adults and 4 children)

Looking for tips on other things to be aware of?

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I have a cargo carrier bolted on to my rear bumper in my 86 sunrader and intend to slap 2 electric 1000 watt 36 v off road scooters (they are soo cool they do 30 MPH but fold and both could easily fit in trunk of a Yugo if need be). The scooters weigh in at 85 LBS a piece for total weight of 170 LBS. as I myself way 208 and have stood on the bumper I am hoping this shouldn't present any issues; mine has been reinforced to the whale tale with some solid looking welds. Has a tow hitch permanently welded also but the hitch is not a receiver type just a weld on. I doubt I will ever tow anything with it so i used the bolt on receiver.

More info on the scooters: only one guy is selling them in USA, they do 30 MPH have a 36 V 14 AH array of batteries and have dual rear suspension and front monochrome spring suspension as well as a removable seat. These aren't kids toys; I rode one through some serious terrain and it had torque like none other. Inverter powers their smart chargers just dandy so they charge while you drive and rock the casba when you dock. great for getting groceries, hitting the beach etc. electric cost to power them is 1 cent per mile; and the campground pays that when you are docked.

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  • 2 weeks later...

My toy is an 87 Dolphin, 4cyl 22RE with auto. The guy I bought it from had all the brakes done professionally then welded on a hitch to pull a small (12-14 ft) aluminum fishing boat a few times. He got away with it, but that is all I can say, that he got away with it.

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I just towed a tandem axle 24 foot triple pontoon trailer about 4 miles with 4 banger the other day as the wife had the truck in another state. never let top speed exceed 35. It did the job. checked the frame and welds; they looked fine.Dont think i would do it with the boat on though...

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  • 1 month later...

I have an '81 Sunrader 17' with the 4-cyl 22R engine and 4-speed transmission. I bought a small/light trailer from Harbor Freight (200 pounds) and put my Suzuki DR650 motorcycle(400 pounds) on the back. I can easily move the bike/trailer combo around by hand and the tongue weight can't be over 50 pounds as it's easy for me to lift. I've towed the combo up the steepest hills in my town. I can normally (without trailer) maintain 37-40 mph (3rd gear) up these hills but the speed drops to 33-35 with trailer/bike. I have also tried the same hills with a lighter bike on the trailer ('73 Yamaha 360 at 240 pounds) with the same results. Bare trailer only yields a slight speed increase by about 2-5 mph. No problems noted with overheating or downhill braking. I have not tried an extensive trip yet. I am concerned about overtaxing the engine, but not the frame or suspension as they seem fine with the load. The bike/trailer combo doesn't compress the Sunrader's rear suspension when measured (light tongue weight?).

Do you folks think I should tow this rig long distance? Anyone with experience with a similar set-up? I noticed a few posts like mine but no answers yet.Help a toy owner out! I'm leaving for a cross-country trip from Arkansas to California next week and would like to take my motorbike but don't want to blow up the Toy. I normally cruise at or below 55mph (like all of us?).

I've added a rear-view camera to the back of the Sunrader so I can keep an eye on the trailer and help with lane changing.

Thanks for your input!

Chuck in Arkansas

Edited by chuckqdini
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Is anyone using or have looked at a brake controller??? Subaru says I am supposed to use one for any load over 1000 # , and this on a 3 liter 6 cylinder American made Outback rated to tow 3500#, 200# max tongue weight here in US. The real 6's Outbacks sold everywhere else in the world are made in Japan are rated to tow 4500# but are also required to use brake controllers above a limit. They are supposed to help a lot with the braking.

Our 91 Dolphin V6 came to us with an apparently well used hitch and towing plug for lights only. I asked a friend who is an expert welder( certified) to look at our rig, the frame extensions, and the welded hitch and he thought the frame extensions were just fine, but the length of the extensions/hitch combo was only good for no more that 200# tongue weight and no more than around 1000# trailer. I was planing to put a small rack on the hitch but will take it to a RV shop for expert advise on how much weight I can put on it, counting the box of course. I have seen these small rear racks on several Winnabagos at Felton.

Vanman

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Facts:- The 1-Ton pickup has a GVWR of 6000lbs & a GCWR of 8500lbs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_combined_weight_rating

http://www.toyoland.com/trucks/tacoma-hilux.html

Opinions:- I'd suggest investigating trailer brakes for all but the lightest trailers. And make sure any frame extension is up to the task. And drive as though your life depends on it. It does. :ThumbUp:

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I just drove from Coldwater Michigan to New Orleans and Back with two 85 lb 1000w electric scooters mounted in a sportrack bag on a 75 LB steel hitch rack. Total tongue weight was 245 lb. couldn't notice any difference in power or handling. averaged 17 MPG + - and only spent $323on gas for total trip. Unlike some yahoos that want to put Lexus motors in their rigs to "increase speed" I just plain know how to drive my automatic 22RE properly. I gingerly let her get up to speed; cruise flat lands between 55-65 MPH. and guess what? my rig will do 90 MPH down hill no problem (LOL) and that's exactly what I do with it. Goose it down hill and ease off to Overdrive up hill watching speed plummet. If the gerbil screams I let off immediately and if i am slow will always use right lane maybe even hazards. I didn't buy my rig to win speed contests, just to have fun on the cheap. I have absolute faith that a 22R sunrader could tow the setup that chuckqdindi mentioned if driven correctly as mentioned. Furthermore that motor can be easy modified for more HP/compression by using the newer heads as the bolt patterns mate. My cousin has a 22R and aside from a lot of tweaking carbs through climate change or cleaning its strong with great low end torque but little horsepower.I prefer the EFI 22re out of sheer laziness though as I'm sick of carbs. we hit some serious bounces in the road to the point where i was worried but every gas break when i inspected the whaletail welds etc it was rock solid; the only metal fatigue was the hitch rack which bent. LOL "Made in china" gotta love that quality steel. I'm thinking about switching to a harbor freight and Salvage Aluminum rack much lighter with a better fence.

After the Midwest Toyota rally the one mod that impressed me the most was a permanent high power inverter. I wired a 1200 watt inverter right into the breaker panel 12 volt connect and plugged the rigs converter into that with a pigtail crossed my fingers and fired it up. heard the click and it works great (with engine running of course). The scooters are a force multiplier of enormous magnitude on a trip. they collapse down far smaller than an ebike. They charge right off the inverter either direct or with rig plugged into inverter in about 5 hours of driving. We clocked 25 miles on them in New Orleans and they still were in the green when we got back from the french quarter. We used them all over the USA including the huge hill in Alabama that leads up to Cathedral caverns; best purchase of the year IMHO these scooters. No trailer, no gas, wicked quiet and will do 35 Mph, and are ready to go charged at each portage. you'd be surprised how cool folks are about letting you ride them inside places too.

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Totem,

Thanks for the information. How long is your rig? Long or short version?

I've read numerous posts about the higher than average strength of the Sunrader frame extensions. Do you (or anyone else) have any pics of the rear undercarriage, especially the attachment of the C-channels to the Toyota truck frame?

I quickly figured the front and rear moments of a 245# tongue weight and what the actual additional rear axle weight would be for my 21' Itasca. 245 pounds X 8 feet past the rear axle = 1,960 foot/pounds rear axle moment. (lots of leverage here) Next I figured out how much weight I have taken off the front wheels (teeter totter effect) and add this to the rear axle. 1,960 ft/lbs divided by 11.4 ft (distance from rear axle to front axle) = 172 lbs. Add these two together and I come up with 417 lbs actual additional weight on the rear axle. That's 10% over my rear axle capacity.

I think about what could happen if I hit a fast dip in the road at 60MPH. My puny little C-channel frame extensions on the Itasca would quickly do the math and at least fatigue if not outright bend.

I salute your Sunrader. Maybe I should have held out for one. You have demonstrated how incredibly tough they are.

I just drove from Coldwater Michigan to New Orleans and Back with two 85 lb 1000w electric scooters mounted in a sportrack bag on a 75 LB steel hitch rack. Total tongue weight was 245 lb. couldn't notice any difference in power or handling. averaged 17 MPG + - and only spent $323on gas for total trip. Unlike some yahoos that want to put Lexus motors in their rigs to "increase speed" I just plain know how to drive my automatic 22RE properly. I gingerly let her get up to speed; cruise flat lands between 55-65 MPH. and guess what? my rig will do 90 MPH down hill no problem (LOL) and that's exactly what I do with it. Goose it down hill and ease off to Overdrive up hill watching speed plummet. If the gerbil screams I let off immediately and if i am slow will always use right lane maybe even hazards. I didn't buy my rig to win speed contests, just to have fun on the cheap. I have absolute faith that a 22R sunrader could tow the setup that chuckqdindi mentioned if driven correctly as mentioned. Furthermore that motor can be easy modified for more HP/compression by using the newer heads as the bolt patterns mate. My cousin has a 22R and aside from a lot of tweaking carbs through climate change or cleaning its strong with great low end torque but little horsepower.I prefer the EFI 22re out of sheer laziness though as I'm sick of carbs. we hit some serious bounces in the road to the point where i was worried but every gas break when i inspected the whaletail welds etc it was rock solid; the only metal fatigue was the hitch rack which bent. LOL "Made in china" gotta love that quality steel. I'm thinking about switching to a harbor freight and Salvage Aluminum rack much lighter with a better fence.

After the Midwest Toyota rally the one mod that impressed me the most was a permanent high power inverter. I wired a 1200 watt inverter right into the breaker panel 12 volt connect and plugged the rigs converter into that with a pigtail crossed my fingers and fired it up. heard the click and it works great (with engine running of course). The scooters are a force multiplier of enormous magnitude on a trip. they collapse down far smaller than an ebike. They charge right off the inverter either direct or with rig plugged into inverter in about 5 hours of driving. We clocked 25 miles on them in New Orleans and they still were in the green when we got back from the french quarter. We used them all over the USA including the huge hill in Alabama that leads up to Cathedral caverns; best purchase of the year IMHO these scooters. No trailer, no gas, wicked quiet and will do 35 Mph, and are ready to go charged at each portage. you'd be surprised how cool folks are about letting you ride them inside places too.

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Add a Lexus V8 and you'd have a wheelie machine! :ThumbUp:

Totem,

Thanks for the information. How long is your rig? Long or short version?

I've read numerous posts about the higher than average strength of the Sunrader frame extensions. Do you (or anyone else) have any pics of the rear undercarriage, especially the attachment of the C-channels to the Toyota truck frame?

I quickly figured the front and rear moments of a 245# tongue weight and what the actual additional rear axle weight would be for my 21' Itasca. 245 pounds X 8 feet past the rear axle = 1,960 foot/pounds rear axle moment. (lots of leverage here) Next I figured out how much weight I have taken off the front wheels (teeter totter effect) and add this to the rear axle. 1,960 ft/lbs divided by 11.4 ft (distance from rear axle to front axle) = 172 lbs. Add these two together and I come up with 417 lbs actual additional weight on the rear axle. That's 10% over my rear axle capacity.

I think about what could happen if I hit a fast dip in the road at 60MPH. My puny little C-channel frame extensions on the Itasca would quickly do the math and at least fatigue if not outright bend.

I salute your Sunrader. Maybe I should have held out for one. You have demonstrated how incredibly tough they are.

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There are strict wt regs in most every state on trailers rec brakes. i am thinking 1000 pounds and up The factory book that came with my 87 dolphin says the Dolphin and the Seabreeze are not made to tow at all.

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My Sunrader is the 21 footer to answer the question. Frame when we looked at it had solid box tube frame (not c channel) all the way down stock and the whale tail extension also did along with some beefy bolts and welds; I just looked under there again after this article; aside from ugly rust looks straight as an arrow. How could yours have a C channel? aren't all the chassis the same?

The tongue weight of the steel 25 ft long triple toon trailer I towed for 4 miles had to be more than the cargo carrier used in the LA trip. I can't easily even lift the toon trailer.

Like you said we hit a couple big dippers usually at the valley of a big hill at top speed and the rig swelled down. I can say this though of my setup; My trailer tongue is permanent hitch welded; no receiver; thus I added a 4-bolt on Bumper receiver for the cargo carrier. The physics of this are important because the bumper mounted receiver is much closer to the frame than that of a protruding towing hitch which acts like a lever on a fulcrum. the closer you can mount the weight to the rig the better.

Besides, there are people in here mounting 210 KG Lexus V8 motors in these frames and not worrying about its stress then claiming it weighs less than a 160 KG 22RE, :gun:

Derek I doubt it would be a wheely machine more likely a death trap going down hill when a deer pops out fully loaded with people and gear at 110 MPH with stock brakes.

We always load "Grannies attic" with gear when en route to front place the weight and I wold also recommend this.

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Most assuredly my 21' Itasca has automotive C channel frame extensions. They are 2" X 3" and are welded about a foot inside the truck frame (after the truck frame switches from box beam to C form) and extend to the rear. Automotive C channel is gauge material, it is usually pretty thin. The Sunrader box beam is a much much stronger frame material. Thanks for that info.

The motor home manufacturers all bought the same Cab & Chassis (C&C) from Toyota. However each had to engineer their own frame extensions. C&C is just that, the Toyota stock truck frame ends just aft of the rear axle, Sunrader, Itasca and all the others extended it so there must be a weldment at that point on your truck frame to the box beam. I don't know what the term "whale tail" means. Is this a fish plate welded over the truck-frame-to-box-beam connection?

Itasca ends their automotive C channel at the rear of the coach and bolts a gauge material square tube sewer hose storage/bumper to the ends. I personally don't think it is safe to add more weight on this bumper considering it is connected to such a lightweight framework. Your Sunrader I can't speak to, but it sure sounds one heck of a lot stronger.

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ok now this makes more sense; i thought you were saying your entire frame was c channel...

The whale tail is a huge steel thing that looks, well, like a whales tail and has brackets and braces permanently welded to a trailer ball and multiple bolts going not only into the frame but into the cab etc. A few folks at the Midwest event said it looked to be one of the beefier setups they had seen but immediately said not to use it; In my mind why not when obviously the previous owner did.

Yep where the tail bridges to the frame is welded to the box frame a c channel; however it is as thick if not thicker than the frame in my case. as for my bumper; it holds me fine and I weigh close to what I have clamped to it; in fact its held me climbing up there with the scoots on; at the end of the day Derek is spot on; if you are afraid of injury or damages don't do it; in my case the weld and bolts look to be crazy beefy and reinforced to my satisfaction. I'll only have myself to blame if i am too overloaded. that being said also, I just did a trip that had ALL terrain, speeds dips, potholes etc possible at some very high speeds and dips and not even a slight bend dent etc in anything other than the cargo carrier beam which was supposedly rated to "500 lbs". I think I would have had the damage by now if it was going to happen. Personally I think the Harbor mini trailer and a small Bike would be fine as long as you don't try to go faster than 55-60. To me its the trans and engine i would be more concerned with damaging.

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just checked under rear again to see union at frame to extension; the whale tail is all box framing and its Whale to extension union which i had thought was c channel is actually full box tube also. The truck frame is box frame also BUT there does seem to be one weak place I guess where it meets the rest of the rear which is definitely a super thick C channel extension that goes 3 feet into the frame and 2 feet into the whale tale frame and has steel plate welded over the C mouth except for the one place where it meets the truck frame which was the only way i could even tell it wasn't solid all the way down. I also noted that the bumper itself in mine is all solid weld part of the whale tail and reinforced with huge bolts and flat steel washers that are 2 inches by 1 inch.

I think the weakness in mine would be the the end of the truck frame union to the whale but in my case its not some thin gauge c channel; its some monster stuff that is huge and engineered way over each piece as well as bolted. it took me a while to even find it. the rear leaf springs meet at that point also. Again no visible signs of stress or strain but I am thinking of having it brushed and plated over on my next set of shocks if mech thinks it is needed. personally i don't. methinks switching to HF aluminum carrier will be aok.

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The frame stops short of the back end what's behind that is not much more then heavy tin so if you add a hitch it has to be welded to the frame the real frame Toyota and the coach makers say no towing take that for what it's worth many people do and get away with it. But remember the MH is all ready pretty stressed as it is it's nothing more then a pickup with a house on it's back. The rear breaking did not improve much with the addition of a one ton rear they are real close to the same sweep area.

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i would think what I'm doing with cargo carrier (200-245 lbs on bumper) is WORSE than towing a small light trailer of 800 total lbs or less. I remember seeing a v6 toy-Winnebago towing a 2 place enclosed snowmobile trailer in cadillac; not sure if 1 or two sleds were in it; it seemed to tow fine. a better question is... has anyone EVER heard of one failing at the frame? if so any pics? I'm thinking old wives tail... the real dangers are trashing trans and or not being able to stop.

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http://www.gt40s.com...ngine-gt40.html

Above for the 4.0 lexus as my Knife to a gun fighting friend slaps in toys...

Below for the 22RE which I have in my rig:

http://www.yotatech....-weight-105403/

Mind you we havent even brought Tranny's into the picture.

He incorrectly assumed I had a V6 in my rig. I had thought about shooting him with my fully automatic perfectly great as it is automatic 22RE and laughing as he dropped his sharp "knife" of a lexus 4.0 V8 and all of the cost untested safety issues and lack of toy home purist spirit but instead decided to just leave it be. A better change to a toy and far more amicable would be conversion to 4x4.

Terribly funny that he failed to answer the questions also and tried to claim that "its STILL a toyota"; No dood its a frankenstein car that most certainly wont get any better gas mileage. best it would be would be more HP and speed which people really don't need when traveling with kids and families. Ask any classic car collector whats more valuable; all original or a frankencar. It probaly would be better to tow with I'll give him that but most peoples concerns in here seem to be frame related. I am having serious trouble finding anyone that actually damaged thier frame or anything in google for a toy home from towing.

"Hey guys, Im gonna put a V12 bus engine in my Itasca with nitrous, turbocharger, 37 lbs boost and this thing that tells time and a flux capacitor." Hey Jessie James, your show was canceled man. LOL

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It takes a big man not to bicker on a Forum.

FWIW, this unconfirmed Internet post has this:-

"1UZ-FE with starter, but no accessory and no flywheel is 395lb"

"22re - long block 318lb (w/ manifold, w/o accesories and starter)"

Source: http://www.celicasupra.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-54868.html {I didn't bother following the sources cited.)

It's always hard to pin down engine weights. Depends what's included. In the above example, I've no way of knowing if the 22RE weight includes a flywheel or not.

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It takes a big man not to bicker on a Forum.

FWIW, this unconfirmed Internet post has this:-

"1UZ-FE with starter, but no accessory and no flywheel is 395lb"

"22re - long block 318lb (w/ manifold, w/o accesories and starter)"

Source: http://www.celicasup...hp/t-54868.html {I didn't bother following the sources cited.)

It's always hard to pin down engine weights. Depends what's included. In the above example, I've no way of knowing if the 22RE weight includes a flywheel or not.

add transmissions and you will be +200 lbs, I'm quite confident (in a sunrader anyway) . I think it would be cool for a rock truck 4runner but is simply a waste of money and risk to a toy home. But hey there are a lot of 17 foot 4x4 toy homes in here that would love that setup I'm sure. personally I'll stick with my 4 banger; I can change an alternator in it in less than 15 minutes, add transmission coolers, extra batteries all under the hood. better mods exist than speed.weight_lift.gif

Back to the topic has anyone ever seen a toyhome frame fail from towing ? Anyone Anyone?

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The only way to know is to weigh a vehicle, do the swap and weigh again, keeping all else the same. Otherwise, it's all speculation.

add transmissions and you will be +200 lbs, ...

Surely you wouldn't add another battery under the hood and throw off the carefully chosed 33/67 weight distribution! :clown2:

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"1UZ-FE with R154: 486lbs"

lol, no. I like popping wheelies too much.

I do know that our brakes have shoes and the Lexus had Anti Lock Disks. Didn't see brake swap or Air Bag nor did I see orbit re-entry ceramic shielding tiles in his mod plan. I knew a guy that overclocked a pc and put a motherboard in a freezer once. His ice cream melted and fried his processor.

wacko.gif

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Thanks for all the discussion and excellent points fellow Toy owners! Totem is correct that my concern is over-stressing the 22R engine/4-speed manual transmission. I have no concern with the frame because my shorty SunRader is beefy back there and the power assisted brakes are more than adequate to stop the rig on a very steep hill we have here in my hometown in the Ozarks. When I return from a short trip to Los Angeles, (in my Toy of course!), I will drive some progressively more challenging routes towing my trailer/motorcycle combo and report back here. Will be watching gas and oil consumption as well as engine temps like a hawk while testing. I figure if I continue to drive my Toy like it was designed (and Totem described), I shouldn't have a problem. Keeping my fingers crossed the engine/trans can "get er done"! Plan #B is to mount my 1972 Honda CT90 (with folding handlebars) using "old school" 1980s style "basket mounts" to the rear bumper. The DR650 is so much more fun to ride though.....

I would not attempt this in my '82 Gran Sport, even though it's lighter, it has the three-speed automatic with over-drive transmission and does not have a true one-ton rear axle and brakes. Frame extension is not even close to being as strong as the SunRader's either.

Thanks again!

Chuck in Are-can-saw

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I am preparing the frame of our 89 Dolphin (22')to tow a small car. (1,700 LBS)

For the brakes, there is not a lot I can do... so I will be using a tow-dolly with electronic brakes. I am going with electronic brakes vs. surge brakes so I can control them.

Here is a picture of some of the extra bracing I had to add to the rear, it also shows a little of the stock Toyota frame with the Dolphin's added frame.

ToyotaRVFramework.jpg

:ThumbUp:

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Here is a picture of some of the extra bracing I had to add to the rear, it also shows a little of the stock Toyota frame with the Dolphin's added frame.

:ThumbUp:

Thanks for the pic. Is your stiffener angle iron or channel? What size? How is it tied to the Toyota frame?

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Here is a picture of some of the extra bracing I had to add to the rear, it also shows a little of the stock Toyota frame with the Dolphin's added frame.

I'm just trying to get my head around your picture. Is this view from where the passenger side wheels live, looking to the rear? Is that a grey or black water tank mounted in the center (between the frame extensions), in front of the bumper?

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I used angle, I will get back to you about the exact size... Here is picture of where it ties into.

Toyotarvframe.jpg

:ThumbUp:

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