Auxiliary Heat - Coleman Catalytic Heater maybe

[Ron 'n Sue]

We were newbies last summer. First time we ran our furnace for a whole evening and early morning it ran down our battery. We didn't discover this until we plugged in later in the day and our 'charger' ran for a few hours to bring it back up.

So, because we will be boondocking for a few times this "spring" (will it ever arrive?) we wonder if perhaps a catalytic heater could be the answer to staying warm(er) inside.

We have found the Coleman (Black Cat?) catalytic heater at Canadian Tire and at Walmart for about $85 - $90 and wonder if anyone out there has tried this heater and if so, what do you think of it?

My brother has a sailboat and he told us that if you want to heat up a small space, like a sailboat cabin, you can place a large clay plant pot over one of the stove's burners turned low. Has anybody out there tried that? We worry maybe the pot would explode.

Anyway..... we'll bundle up 'cause we're sick of hanging around inside and we wanna get going!

Sue and Ron

in Tuareg

[waiter]

Burning LP gas does (can) generated Carbon Monoxide. I run the stove for a few minutes to bring the temperature up. Also run the truck to recharge the battery (and help with temperature)

Other than Carbon monoxide, My main problem with using the stove burner as the heat source, don't fall asleep. If for some reason the burner goes out, there's no way to detect this and turn off the gas.

(Not sure what the clay pot does for yah???

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[Ron 'n Sue]

Burning LP gas does (can) generated Carbon Monoxide. I run the stove for a few minutes to bring the temperature up. Also run the truck to recharge the battery (and help with temperature)

Other than Carbon monoxide, My main problem with using the stove burner as the heat source, don't fall asleep. If for some reason the burner goes out, there's no way to detect this and turn off the gas.

(Not sure what the clay pot does for yah???

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

Hi, thanks for answering so quickly.

Apparently, according to the instructions, the catalytic heater can be run 'indoors' with a 6 sq.inch opening for ventilation, which isn't much.

We have a Carbon Monoxide alarm (but how does one test that it works?)

The large clay pot would radiate heat once it heats up and thereby give out more heat for longer, I guess.

I don't think the truck battery does anything to our house battery. Is there any connection in the '92 Warrier? Not sure.

[Derek up North]

John. What, no propane detector installed (yet)? I've got one by Safe T Alert in front of me waiting to be installed. It probably wouldn't be too hard to hack one so that it would shut a solenoid valve in the gas line.

Ron 'n Sue (Sue 'n Ron?). There's also a highly regarded catalytic heater called the Camco Olympian 'Wave-3'. They also recommend an opening for fresh air. I'm not sure if either are accepted by CSA/CGA for indoor use. And of course either, I'm sure, is cheaper SOTB (South Of The Border). Do you have a CO detector? Does it have a test button? How old is it? I believe they (like smoke detectors) have a 'shelf life'.

[Ron 'n Sue]

John. What, no propane detector installed (yet)? I've got one by Safe T Alert in front of me waiting to be installed. It probably wouldn't be too hard to hack one so that it would shut a solenoid valve in the gas line.

Ron 'n Sue (Sue 'n Ron?). There's also a highly regarded catalytic heater called the Camco Olympian 'Wave-3'. They also recommend an opening for fresh air. I'm not sure if either are accepted by CSA/CGA for indoor use. And of course either, I'm sure, is cheaper SOTB (South Of The Border). Do you have a CO detector? Does it have a test button? How old is it? I believe they (like smoke detectors) have a 'shelf life'.

Everything is cheaper SOTB. We don't say "The Great Canadian Rip-off for nothing"! It's very, very annoying. Today we went to get diesel for our furnace (the cheapest way to go; cheaper than delivery) and it was 3 cents more than gas.which means that we may start buying it elsewhere than Husky (where we get points off for BCAA coverage). Time for a revolution?

We will see what the test button does and will check the age.. Sounds an alarm, I would think.

Never heard of Camco Olympian Wave 3. The Coleman is okay apparently for some use indoors. Didn't look for CSA/CGA approval sticker.

Alas, we know nothing about how to 'hack' any darn thing!

Sue 'n Ron.

[Maineah]

The Coleman Black Cat is a no no way too much CO and no low O2 sensor. Same goes for the stove top they are just not for space heating (maybe if you cooked a 100# rock while you were out sight seeing). Mr Buddy makes a safe for indoors (if you believe them) catalytic heater that has a low O2 sensor but it still needs make up air there is a lot of chatter about using any gas burning heaters in a confined space some say fine others say no way. A CO detector is mandatory after all you don't want to wake up dead! There are some very nice vented cat heaters with very nice price tags to match designed just for boats and RV's. This is a problem I have been pondering for some time I can not sleep through my RV blast furnace, works good just too noisy.

[Derek up North]

Mainah, you need more dogs to keep you warm. I'm up to 6 in the house. None of them will set off a CO detector, but one would set off a methane detector!

[WME]

Make sure your battery is good.

Make sure that you isolator is allowing the truck alternator to charge the house battery.

Turn down the thermostat and get more blankets

[flatspin]

Totally agree with WME... I'd start with the battery. I get days of furnace and lighting and pump operation from ours. Insulating overhead vents, etc can help too. For me, I'd rather find a way to add another battery to the system than experiment with new ways to burn fuel in the living area.

-andrew

[86rader]

Mainah, you need more dogs to keep you warm. I'm up to 6 in the house. None of them will set off a CO detector, but one would set off a methane detector!

you ever see maineah's dog? it's about the size of six normal dogs rolled up into one. I think six of them would be a little cozy and probably surpass the weight limits of a toyhouse.

as for heating options, i prefer the tried and true factory heating that we all come with. Put on a sweater. Not enough? Put on a down jacket over it. A nice down comforter or two will keep you cozy enough, especially if you have something else warm to snuggle up to.

[Derek up North]

I know his is big, but my current rotating stock currently totals about 280lbs. And that's with 2 x 2 month old puppies and 1 x 5 month old, so it's increasing rapidly!

[RVyota]

I use a Mr Buddy in my toyota all the time. I keep the vent above the bed open when I sleep, and on low the heater will run me out of the camper. I live in South Dakota and have stayed very warm caming at deer camp in November. I would Highly recomend the MR buddy

[Oldiesel]

We have used the flower pot on the stove burner many times in our sailboats,makes alot of heat. We always had a hatch at least a little bit open and would not even consider sleeping with it on.If you decide to try it make sure you use a CLAY pot! Plastic wont work LOL. Don

[mulwyk]

I've also used the sailboat/flowerpot trick. Works just fine. My boat has so many air leaks around the hatches that I never worried about death from CO. We added a little dickinson propane heater (with 1" chimney) a couple years ago and threw the flower pot overboard.

[Maineah]

I've also used the sailboat/flowerpot trick. Works just fine. My boat has so many air leaks around the hatches that I never worried about death from CO. We added a little dickinson propane heater (with 1" chimney) a couple years ago and threw the flower pot overboard.

I have looked at them are you using one in the MH or just on the boat? They look like they would heat the MH just fine they are not exactly cheap but I would think they are cheaper then a new RV furnace.

[xanthogar]

I bought a Mr. Buddy heater to use in my motor home it works great and has a low oxygen shut off. On a small propane tank it runs 8 hours. It was only $50 at camping work. Defiantly thankful having it on the cold boon docking nights.

[Lee & Joan]

I just had the dreaded low battery = no blower = no heater happen to me. I am exploring two options.

the ProCom Vent Free 10000 BTU dual fuel (propane) needs no power as it uses radiant heat and converts near 100% of the fuel to heat. This one shuts off with low oxygen and has a thermostat. I use the bigger 5 mantle one in my house.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200485119_200485119?issearch=19852

The Carbon Monoxide thing results from Not enough Oxygen to burn clean thus making carbon mon (one) oxygen rather than carbon DI (two) oxygen,

IE Mon Oxide vs Di Oxide. Keeping fresh air to the burner is important. The low oxygen sensor also helps here.

I am also looking at the electric infared Profusion for when I am on a power cord, I have one of these over my shop bench

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200395479_200395479?issearch=700093

[waiter]

I've been doing a lot of research on this subject for about a week, as we plan on doing a long trip over Christmas vacation and may encounter some very cold weather. Goto RV.NET and searc Mr Buddy, propane heater, wave heater, etc, etc.

Both units, must open window and roof vent for fresh air and venting.

Both units will deplete O2, (thats why open windows and vents) but don't put out lethal levels of CO2. If you don't open windows and vent, You'll die of affixiation from lack of oxygen, not CO2 poising.

There seems to be discussion that 3000 btu may be a little to much for 30 ft trailers at 30Deg F. , This would be way to much for 21 ft Toyhouse - Temp regulation is by opening window wider or turning the heater off.

Both units must have clearance around the unit and above the unit. Both can be mounted to the wall.

I plan on sleeping with the unit running. There are groups of people who say they would never do this, and equal groups that say yes, they do it all the time. MUST open windows and roof vents.

Here's what I have so far:

Wave 3:

Wave 3 is catalytic heater with two settings 1500 and 3000 btu.

The Wave 3 is low pressure (11 inches H20) and can be run directly from the coach low pressure propane system.

There isn't a real good place to mount the Wave 3 - but I just got a couple more Ideas that I'll look at this weekend. (mounting it on a cabinet door)

Small Mr Buddy:

not catalytic - two settings 3000 and 9000 btu

This model has a built in regulator.

Runs on small 1lb disposable propane tanks. Portable, good for emergency use.

Maybe,I say Maybe, able to run on low pressure without modifications to heater. I ran across a couple articles where the author said he was running it like this and didn't have any problems. He connects the low pressure directly to the regulator on the heater with an adapter that simulates one of those disposable bottle connectors. I'll be experimenting with this later this week.

Mr Buddy does sell a High pressure hose kit that can be used for this heater. I'm not real keen on running high pressure hose into the Toyhouse. but I've read where others have done it. (You got to have a window open anyway, so run the hose to the propane tank thats sitting outside.

There was also discussion where people physically removed the on board regulator, and plumbed the Mr Buddy directly to the low pressure system. This looks like a good option.

I also read where individuals refill the 1 lb disposable bottle with success.

Stay tuned, I purchased one of each (I'll use it in my barn). I prefer the Wave 3 because of the 1500 btu, cataylic, and can plumb directly to the low pressure system.

JOhn Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[Derek up North]

There isn't a real good place to mount the Wave 3 - but I just got a couple more Ideas that I'll look at this weekend. (mounting it on a cabinet door)

Like this?

http://www.modmyrv.c...atalytic-heater

Another installation:-

http://motorhomemodification-usa.blogspot.com/2011/01/olympian-wave-3-attached-to-cabinet_1971.html

[waiter]

Derek - EXACTLY - I seen something like this last night, the fellow had it mounted on the inside of the door, so when the door was closed, it was out of the way, BUT, this would also work. I'll look at mine in the next couple days to see if its workable.

BY THE WAY - WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN HIDING???????

JOhn Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[Maineah]

I've been doing a lot of research on this subject for about a week, as we plan on doing a long trip over Christmas vacation and may encounter some very cold weather. Goto RV.NET and searc Mr Buddy, propane heater, wave heater, etc, etc.

Both units, must open window and roof vent for fresh air and venting.

Both units will deplete O2, (thats why open windows and vents) but don't put out lethal levels of CO2. If you don't open windows and vent, You'll die of affixiation from lack of oxygen, not CO2 poising.

There seems to be discussion that 3000 btu may be a little to much for 30 ft trailers at 30Deg F. , This would be way to much for 21 ft Toyhouse - Temp regulation is by opening window wider or turning the heater off.

Both units must have clearance around the unit and above the unit. Both can be mounted to the wall.

I plan on sleeping with the unit running. There are groups of people who say they would never do this, and equal groups that say yes, they do it all the time. MUST open windows and roof vents.

Here's what I have so far:

Wave 3:

Wave 3 is catalytic heater with two settings 1500 and 3000 btu.

The Wave 3 is low pressure (11 inches H20) and can be run directly from the coach low pressure propane system.

There isn't a real good place to mount the Wave 3 - but I just got a couple more Ideas that I'll look at this weekend. (mounting it on a cabinet door)

Small Mr Buddy:

not catalytic - two settings 3000 and 9000 btu

This model has a built in regulator.

Runs on small 1lb disposable propane tanks. Portable, good for emergency use.

Maybe,I say Maybe, able to run on low pressure without modifications to heater. I ran across a couple articles where the author said he was running it like this and didn't have any problems. He connects the low pressure directly to the regulator on the heater with an adapter that simulates one of those disposable bottle connectors. I'll be experimenting with this later this week.

Mr Buddy does sell a High pressure hose kit that can be used for this heater. I'm not real keen on running high pressure hose into the Toyhouse. but I've read where others have done it. (You got to have a window open anyway, so run the hose to the propane tank thats sitting outside.

There was also discussion where people physically removed the on board regulator, and plumbed the Mr Buddy directly to the low pressure system. This looks like a good option.

I also read where individuals refill the 1 lb disposable bottle with success.

Stay tuned, I purchased one of each (I'll use it in my barn). I prefer the Wave 3 because of the 1500 btu, cataylic, and can plumb directly to the low pressure system.

JOhn Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

I have used the Mr Buddy it will heat the camper just fine it maybe just me but it gave me wicked head aches even though I had a window open a good bit. Refilling 1# cylinders is pretty easy what I do is put the empty in the freezer (make sure your wife is out shopping) make up fittings then turn a 20# upside down preferably after being out in the sun and let it fill the 1# for about a minute I listen to the little cylinder and when it stops making noise it's full. That being said it is illegal to transport a refilled cylinder how they would ever know is beyond me but there is a pretty stiff fine. If I made a habit of winter camping I think I would spring for a propane boat heater with a vent little pricey ($460) but no fumes no O2 problems.

[Derek up North]

Haven't been hiding out. Just forgetting user names and passwords and changed computers that remembers things like that for me!

You might want to incorporate a 'sediment trap' in your installation.

http://kareninthewoo...air-of-our.html

BTW, I've read that the Wave 3 must be surface mounted, whereas the Wave 6 can be recessed and mounted either horizontally or vertically.

[waiter]

Good to see you.

I got the low pressure already plumbed under the stove, put in a "T" and also a valve to shut it off. Waiting for the hose to come in the mail.

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[Bob C]

Please remember to install a CO detector in your MH. I would hate to loose friends that I have begun to know in the last 5 months.

By the way, when you burn propane (LP) the exhaust is water vapor and carbon dioxide. When the oxygen level starts to be depleted, it turns to water and carbon monoxide. This is the deadly stuff. A friend of mine was using a Mr. Heater in his ice fishing shack with a window cracked but the result was an eternal nap.

I miss the old geezer and his stories about hunting and fishing. Please don't join him on the dark side of the sod. CO detectors are only about $35. That was the first thing that I did with our MH when we bought it.

[5Toyota]

hellow to my friends. a friend of myn had a 23 foot dodge with a wave heater mounted on the door like that the furnec was replaced with that worked good. got my co detector at wallmart for 20 dollors

[90toydolphin]

this info adds to any thing i might do, i like high places.

Of note, the models with ODS can not be used above 5000 to 7000 feet (depending on brand). The Olympian models without ODS can be used up to 12,000 feet, according to Olympian. The Mr. Heater “Buddy” models may be used up to 7000 ft. So take that in to consideration since your favorite campground may be higher in altitude than what a catalytic heater is rated to operate at.

this came from one of the links above.

[waiter]

As a test, I ran the Mr Buddy yesterday in the Toyhouse. The outside Air Temperature (OAT) was 35 Deg F, and the wind was blowing out of the west at about 30mph.

I don't have the low pressure hose plumbed yet so I used a 1lb canister (lasted about 8 hours) and ran the unit on low (3000 btu). I opened up my two aft roof vents about 1/2 inch (The two back vents have MaxAirr cover on them) and opened the drivers door wing vent window about an inch.

In spite of the strong winds, the heater was able to keep the interior at about 60 deg. I did have some condensation on the truck windows (windshield and truck doors) but very little on the coach windows.

I suspect that 3000 btu will be to much heat if the wind isn't blowing, but this could be controlled by turning the heater off, or opening the window a little more.

I like being able to move the heater around, i.e. on the floor in front of the stove, of back in the bath doorway in case your cooking, on top of the stove or sink, or even open the oven door and put it on the oven door.

The Mr Buddy can be moved around (even if its plumbed with a hose), but I'm still holding out hope that I can mount the Wave 3 somewhere. I prefer the Catylic heater over the Mr Buddy.

The Wave 3 doesn't have a good stand. It has the two big legs that are an option, but these are to big and require a large flat surface to rest on. I could probably make a stand out of wood or metal. it also doesn't have a carry handle to lift or move it while its running, again, I could probably make one.

Stay tuned while I think about this some more.

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[waiter]

Testing continues.

I purchased a Carbon Monoxide (CO) detector from Menards for $20 - This is battery operated and has a readout (updates every couple minutes). I mounted it up near the ceiling to the left of the bath door.

The Quick Disconnect (QD) hose I ordered came in (QD10C). The hose is 10 ft long, 1/4in male pipe thread on end and the QD female on the other. The short hose has the QD male on one end and a 3/8 female flare on the other - This hose connects to the heater.

LP Quick Disconnect

I now have the Toyhouse plumbed with this hose (low pressure line). I installed a "T" in the LP line where it comes up through the floor under the stove. I added a shutoff valve and the hose connects to the valve. I drilled a couple 1 1/2 inch holes in the bottom of the cabinet door. I can run the hose through either one of these holes and can then close the cabinet door. This allows me to put the heater on the floor, or on top of the stove counter.

WAVE 3

After spending days looking for a good place to mount the heater, I came to the conclusion that I just don't have enough room anywhere to mount the heater, and be able to operate it safely, and in a manner that I want to use it. With the long hose, I can locate the heater at different places. I can set it on the floor near the bath door and it has good heating of the floor, Only thing is, I'll need to step over it to use the bath. The other location is on top of the stove or the sink.

Regardless of location, I still need to open the roof vents and a window a little to allow fresh air. When I was lighting the Wave 3, I watched the CO alarm, it went up to 50 ppm when I was lighting the Wave 3, but after it was lit and running in the HIGH position, the CO reading went to ZERO. ( I think the Pilot light puts out a lot of CO)

Also need to be aware of anything that could fall on top of the heater, so look around if its sitting on the floor.

****************

I connected the hose to the Wave 3 and tried it. IMPORTANT - Lighting the Wave 3 is different than lighting most other appliance, so after y20 minutes of screwing around and it not staying lite, read the instructions.

Put the knob in the START position, Press and hold the knob down to override the safety thermocouple until it lights. Click the starter, the pilot should light. Continue to hold it down for 30 seconds, you'll see the bottom of the pad start to glow and you'll fell the heat. Now, release the knob, (note - The pilot light will go out - this is normal), quickly, press the knob down slightly and turn it to HIGH.

Initially, I thought it wasn't getting enough gas as the pad was not completely glowing. I replaced the quick disconnect hose with a short piece of 3/8 hose. I didn't see any difference in the heater, so I'm guessing that the quick disconnect and hose isn't impeding gas flow to the heater.

This week I'll make a small Manometer and check the gas pressure to make sure its 11inches.

The quick disconnect makes it convenient to unplug and store the heater when not in use.

Mr Buddy (small - 3000/9000 btu)

I had seen reports that someone was able to use the Mr Buddy on low pressure, without making any modifications to it.

I hooked up the disposable bottle adapter to the low pressure hose and screwed it into the Mr Buddy. I was able to get the Mr Buddy pilot light to light, and noticed that the pilot flame wasn't very long. When I moved the valve to the LOW position, the Mr Buddy puffed once and blow the pilot light out. In my Installation, the Mr Buddy will not work this way.

I'll check my LP regulator to make sure its putting out 11 inches. I'll write this up again when I do that.

MODIFY Mr Buddy.!!!

In my research, I had read several instances that the Mr Buddy would work if its internal regulator was removed and the MHs low pressure line was attached directly to the Mr Buddy low pressure. (The larger Mr Buddy has this connection built in, but the small Mr buddy doesn't)

I would rather not remove the internal regulator, because I like the functionality of being able to use the 1 lb disposable tanks (These would be good in an emergency).

I took the Mr Buddy apart last night and I believe I can install a "T" in its low pressure line, with one side of the "T" coming out the back of the unit.

When I want to connect it directly to a low pressure source (i.e. my Toyhouse), I'd screw an empty tank onto the disposable connector to plug the regulator, then connect my MH low pressure to this "T", and run the Mr Buddy directly off the MH low pressure.

If I want to use a 1lb tank, I would screw on a cap on the external "T" connection.

I'll re-post after I do this modification to my Mr Buddy.

Conclusions to date:

At this point, I'll use the Wave 3 as the alternate heat source. The only thing I need to do is to add a couple handles to the Wave 3 to make it easier to pick up and move while its hot. I think I can buy a couple of cabinet door handles and screw them to the sides of the Wave 3. (Top gets to hot).

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[acudoc]

I have used the Wave 3 and I love it. It never really glows evenly over all the pad.

Just the nature of the product.

I took mine out of my old toy and plan on putting it under the stove.

I dont have an oven, so I can put it there easily.

If you plan on moving it about you might consider a swivel connection.

I have the old model so I can use it at elevation.

Henry

[waiter]

I have used the Wave 3 and I love it. It never really glows evenly over all the pad.

Just the nature of the product.

Henry;

Thanks for the info. Real Estate in a Toyhouse is valuable.

I have an oven, but I'm thinking of taking the door off and see if the microwave will fit in there. That would free up the top of the frig.

I bought a 90deg swivel today and will install it on the Wave 3. Also got the parts to modify the Mr Buddy.

John Mc

[mrgizmow]

Happy Holiday to all. Having a little extra time has allowed me to glean more wisdom from the Forum. The last 6 months have been spent working on our 87 Dolphin. Like anything, if you don't have any experience, it is hard to forsee what you are getting yourself into. It seems our low mileage rig still needed a number of things fixed.

After taking the stock heater apart to service the blower (wheel) and flapper like many of you, I decided it might be nice to also have an extra heat source. Certainly, with such modifications you need to give serious thought to the risks you might be subjecting yourself (family) to.

I decided to go with the Coleman 'Sport Cat'. This unit is only 1300 btu's and like the other Coleman catalytic heaters, it is designed to use the 1 pound cylinders. The purchase price for this unit was $34 at Walmart. My plan was to 'experiment' with this unit, getting it to operate on line pressure from the motorhome and mounting it in the oven. I will not go into detail about working around the pressure regulator on the Coleman unit as you will have to do your own "risk assessment" and proceed cautiously. With the catalytic unit tested and found to be working safely and as expected, I began my in-coach install. First, I removed the oven door, as I did not think the over would ever be used. I then tee'd into the coach gasline between the stock heater and stove. In our coach there is a small door under the 'couch' next to the stove that allowed me room to plumb and install a valve. This change gives us a little extra heat, is out of the way enough that it will not get in the way as our dogs move about the coach and as well, it is high enough as not to ignite one of the little critters as they wander past. AGAIN, SAFETY; CARBON MONOXIDE DETECTOR IN PLACE ALL MODIFACTION TESTING DONE OUTSIDE THE COACH....... TWO UP-SIZED FIRE EXTINGUISHERS ABOARD.

Another modification that was done for cold weather adventures. Years ago I converted an old Divco milk truck into an ad hoc camper (yup, I was kind of a 'hippie'). Back then I installed a Humphrey propane lamp. Not only did it provide great light, it also warmed things up. This install was over the dinette, into the center cabinet door. Again, safety concerns; though it was far enough below the ceiling as not to create enough heat to warrant concern (instruction manual) I added an extra panel of hightech insulation to the ceiling above the lamp. As well, for some there might be some concern regarding how the mantles for such lamps have been treated with some radiation (for whatever reason). This project went well and "I" feel safe and comfortable. I as well, have my carbon monoxide dector mounted to the wall that the bathroom door slides into. With the coach sealed (a test) it took about three hours before the dectector when off (both heater and lamp going). Now personally, I would never go to sleep with the catalytic heater on, nor would I run either of these appliances without proper venting. Just some of my projects and personal opinions. Pictures to follow. Gerry

Edited December 23, 2011 by mrgizmow