waiter Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 I need enough 110 VAC power to run a small Microwave, power tools, laptop, and other 110 VAC stuff that I haven't even thought of. The final installation needed to be easy to use and convenient to operate The Inverter I choose was a Power Drive, 1500 watts, cost $125.00. I also purchased a Cobra Remote switch (will work with the Power Drive Inverter) for $20.00. This inverter comes with #4 cables, so that is a savings also. I installed the Inverter under the table bench seat, directly above the battery. This seems to be a well protected place, as I was concerned about something metal coming in contact with the battery power cable terminals. I think ventilation is OK. If I find there's a problem, I'll cut a hole above the outlet, and mount a small 110 VAC fan in there to blow air in. The installation was mounting the inverter, then fishing wires around the Toyhouse to places that I think I'll use it. I cut a piece of 3/4 inch plywood about 2 inches larger than the top of the battery box. I had a helper hold the plywood on top of the battery box while I ran 6 screws up into the plywood from the inside the battery box. I then screwed the inverter to the plywood. I attached the fuse blocks to the wall, and ran the battery cables to the inverter and the battery. The Inverter came with #4 cables. I decided to cut the cables and run both through 150 amp fuses. I removed the original cables from the battery and connected these to the battery side of the fuse blocks. The #4 cables run from the fuse block to the battery. This helped clean up the battery connections. The remote switch was placed on the forward wall of the refrigerator chimney, I also installed an inverter outlet. These wires can be snaked down, then go through to the interior in an existing hole. They'll come through right above the battery box. The remote switch turns the inverter on and off, However, the ON light isn't real bright and is not obvious. I may replace the green LED with a bright red LED (project for later time) NOTE - I installed two "Door Handles" on the top of the counter. I use these to hook the bungees to that hold the Microwave down so it won't fall off the counter. In all, I installed 4 outlets that are wired to plug into the inverter. I used a gray outlets and covers to distinguish the inverter outlets from the regular outlets. Above the Frig counter, Inside the Refrigerator compartment opening, (For outside use), On the Kitchen cabinet, and behind the drivers seat. During the installation, I used the inverter to power the drills and saw, I also made a nice hot cup of coffee with the microwave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted March 7, 2011 Author Share Posted March 7, 2011 The outside outlet that I installed in the Refrigerator compartment serves a couple purposes. 1) If I want, I can plug the Refrigerator into this outlet and run the frig off the inverter. Keep in mind this is a 10 amp drain on the 12 volt system, This is OK if the engine is running, but would run the coach battery dead if left on overnight (about the same as leaving your headlights on) 2) If I'm outside and want to plug the Smoothie blender in, I can do it here and don't need to run an extension cord into the coach. 3) Great for power tools, I plan on carrying an extension cord / trouble light in my tool kit. John Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 I hope you made a wise choice in inverters. I decided to be lazy (and a copycat) and bought the same one off FleaBay. $101, shipped. Did you try and come up with a simple and foolproof way to connect the original outlets to the inverter without blowing anything up when plugged in to shore power? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted March 8, 2011 Author Share Posted March 8, 2011 I was thinking of using a 20 amp 3-way switch, simply flip the switch to change the outlet source from Shore to Inverter. Need to trace the wires off the circuit breaker panel inside the Converter box, to make sure you have only the feed to the outlets, (don't try and run the 12 volt converter off the Inverter, it won't work.. Not a hard thing to do, but I decided to go with dedicated outlets, that way there's no forgetting, or accidental leaving the switch in the wrong position. Either solution is good. JOhn Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90toydolphin Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 the regular charging system on the truck will handle this load ok? so you can run say a small electric frig will driving? seems like a lot to ask for, only reason i ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted September 7, 2011 Author Share Posted September 7, 2011 I'm not sure what a small frig draws as far a current. Look on the data plate, it should list "amps". A quick guide is to multiply this by 10, that would be the number of amps you need at 12 volts. i.e. if the frig draws 2.5 amps, than you would need 25 amps at 12 volts. I have a 50 amp alternator on my Toyhouse, At night with the AC running, I'm probably drawing 25 - 30 amps (headlights, AC blower and clutch, fuel pump, EI, EFI, radio, Battery trickle charge, etc, etc) This doesn't leave a lot of room for a frig. I can get by with intermittent use of the Microwave or even brew a cup of Coffee, but may not be able to continuously run a frig. If you have a 500 watt inverter, give it a try and let us know what happens. John Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 I'm extra lazy and forgetful. So I wired my system so that everything is automatic. I used an 30 amp automatic transfer switch (ATS). The inverter has an ATS built in and AC hard wire points and AC receptacles. The standard outlets in the toy are powered by AC, Generator, Inverter. The default is AC of course, if you start the genset the ATS transfers the load to the generator AND disconnects the shore side so you don't try to zap someone working on the RV camp power. When you start the inverter the same happens, the inverter gets the load and shore power is disconnected. I split the AC power panel buss bar so that AC or the generator will run the converter, when the inverter is on the converter is unpowered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acudoc Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Hi John, Does a larger inverter use more power than a smaller one to power a small (same) electrical need? ie If I have a small monitor that uses less than 30 watts etc can I use the smallest inverter? I wont be using a microwave etc just a tv monitor, dvd player. Is there an advantage to using a 1500 watt? What about fan noise? ablitiy to breathe? Thanks Henry I need enough 110 VAC power to run a small Microwave, power tools, laptop, and other 110 VAC stuff that I haven't even thought of. The final installation needed to be easy to use and convenient to operate The Inverter I choose was a Power Drive, 1500 watts, cost $125.00. I also purchased a Cobra Remote switch (will work with the Power Drive Inverter) for $20.00. This inverter comes with #4 cables, so that is a savings also. I installed the Inverter under the table bench seat, directly above the battery. This seems to be a well protected place, as I was concerned about something metal coming in contact with the battery power cable terminals. I think ventilation is OK. If I find there's a problem, I'll cut a hole above the outlet, and mount a small 110 VAC fan in there to blow air in. The installation was mounting the inverter, then fishing wires around the Toyhouse to places that I think I'll use it. I cut a piece of 3/4 inch plywood about 2 inches larger than the top of the battery box. I had a helper hold the plywood on top of the battery box while I ran 6 screws up into the plywood from the inside the battery box. I then screwed the inverter to the plywood. I attached the fuse blocks to the wall, and ran the battery cables to the inverter and the battery. The Inverter came with #4 cables. I decided to cut the cables and run both through 150 amp fuses. I removed the original cables from the battery and connected these to the battery side of the fuse blocks. The #4 cables run from the fuse block to the battery. This helped clean up the battery connections. The remote switch was placed on the forward wall of the refrigerator chimney, I also installed an inverter outlet. These wires can be snaked down, then go through to the interior in an existing hole. They'll come through right above the battery box. The remote switch turns the inverter on and off, However, the ON light isn't real bright and is not obvious. I may replace the green LED with a bright red LED (project for later time) NOTE - I installed two "Door Handles" on the top of the counter. I use these to hook the bungees to that hold the Microwave down so it won't fall off the counter. In all, I installed 4 outlets that are wired to plug into the inverter. I used a gray outlets and covers to distinguish the inverter outlets from the regular outlets. Above the Frig counter, Inside the Refrigerator compartment opening, (For outside use), On the Kitchen cabinet, and behind the drivers seat. During the installation, I used the inverter to power the drills and saw, I also made a nice hot cup of coffee with the microwave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share Posted September 13, 2011 I was at the Truck stop last night (Flying J, I Think) and I seen they had an 800 watt on sale for $39. I would recommend Everyone get one of these. you can't beat the price. 800 watts will run a small TV, a very small microwave, computer, cell phone chargers, etc. Mount it close to your battery with large cables. The only advantage to a large inverter is its capacity, if you never need that capacity, then there isn't any reason to have it. Inverters are quite and don't generate to much heat, Fan noise is minimal. JOhn Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86rader Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Have you, or do you plan to increase battery capacity? Do you think it would be worthwhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 I haven't had the need to, and don't have any plans on larger batteries. but my usage may be different from other peoples. The big consumer on my inverter is the morning coffee pot (900 watts brewing) and the lunch or evening cooking with the microwave (1,000 watts cooking on high). The battery gets charged when I run the truck, If I'm in one spot for a couple days, I can run the truck to recharge the battery. I installed a remote starter so I can start the truck while sitting at the table brewing coffee. The rest of the coach is very low power, All the lights have been replaced with LEDs that draw about 1/5 the power of the incandescent lamps. NOTE - My Sister in Law borrowed our Toyhouse for 10 days traveling in the south. They love the LED lights and didn't even know they were LEDs until I told them to look. They are spending a lot of time boon-docking, so I'll get a report from them on how well things went. They know how to turn on the inverter and use it for coffee and microwave. JOhn Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90toydolphin Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 looking to confirm some math and inverters. if i am using an inverter, 800 watt, actually pulling 400 watts would my amp pull off the battery be 33.5 amps? and if my battery is a 750 amp deep cycle i could use it for over 22 hours before charging? using amps X Volts = watts, that's what i get. i am assuming that only using 400 watts only uses 33.5 amps. if the inverter pulls as if it was always using 800 watts then it would cut every thing in half. am I close? this would be great if i am, we like to watch movies and the camping neighbors don't always appreciate the generator running 2 hours at a time, even the honda eu2000i ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90toydolphin Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 one more thing, there are lots of 800 watt inverters on line for under $45 delivered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90toydolphin Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 i know, enough is enough ). i found a site that does a lot of explaining about inverters and the strains they put on batteries and alternators. i think it is of value to anyone wanting to add an inverter and not have any surprises as to what might happen to your batteries and alternators. happy travels. http://www.whistlergroup.com/faq-inverters-answers.asp copy past and go ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Your confusing Cranking AMPs and Amp Hours. A 750 AH battery would weigh over a 600lbs. BUT if you did have one then your math is close. A 24 sized battery is around 70AH, a 31 sized is around 100 AH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 WME pegged it. :-) 70 amp hours - is 70 amps for one hour, Cold Crank Amps is what it can deliver for a very short duration (30 seconds) Oh yes, the math is OK ( Taught you in three days what took me three years to learn :-) JOhn Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90toydolphin Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 you are right, i don't have a 600 lb battery , it's a group 24. i'll run a separate plug off the inverter to only run the tv and dvd, they don't pull much. i was hoping to run the AC frig too, but wouldn't be practical unless i went much bigger and changed the alternator and other goodies to make that work going down the road without killing the batteries or frying the alternator. i'll have to double check the the watts/amps on the tv and dvd and that will give me an idea how long i can use those before cranking up the generator. if it's a few hours that would be worth the bucks to me. i guess 750 AH was wishful thinking. if i connect the inverter to the battery with the exiting connections still on, would it cause problems because it is hooked to the converter an other 12 volt items? my brain says no because the inverter only accepts the 12V to operate, but i'm more familiar with AC than DC, they are the same but different can you tell, i just discovered the cutie guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted October 11, 2011 Author Share Posted October 11, 2011 Mount your inverter as close as possible to the battery, with large cables #6 or #8 are OK, keep the distance to 2 - 3 ft. JOhn Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90toydolphin Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 would i be better off to get an inverter just big enough to run the the tv and dvd? would it use less power in the conversion process? if i only need a 400 watt would there be any advantage in an 800 watt? disadvantage? one thing i read is that the inverter pulls about 10% of it's out put just to work. if that's the case the 400 should work longer on the same battery than the 800 if only using 300 watts. is this true? wacko? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 All inverters have “idling current” the better ones are to some extent adjustable but an inverter left plugged in will kill the battery even if it’s not turned on eventually. I would not over rate the inverter 400 watts for a LCD TV is plenty. NAPA auto parts sells high current connectors (male/female) or most auto supply stores you can use very short cables bolted directly to your battery and the same on the inverter and simply plug it in when needed. Now if you want to go over the top ( I am guilty of that) you can do some rewiring in your breaker box add a breaker lift the wires for the converter/charger from the input on the main and put them on the added breaker turn off the breaker,plug your MH cable into the inverter and have power at all your sockets. You can not get away with that unless you disconnect the charger/converter other wise you'll be trying to charge the battery while you are taking power from it however if you manage to get away with it please PM me right away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 When my inverter is ON but with no loads, it draws about 1/2 amp (about the same as the dome light in a car), probably kill the battery in about four or five days When my inverter is turned off, it still draws a small amount of current, and will run the battery down after a few weeks. If I know I'm going to be storing it without shore power, I disconnect the battery. JOhn Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90toydolphin Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 thanks to both of you for more info. i'm sure now that i would definitely want to be able to easily disconnect the inverter when not in use. i did think of running the inverter through the breaker box but i would probably forget to flip the right breaker and burn it all down. neither my wife nor insurance agent would be happy with me then. and with the battery i currently have, group 24, it wouldn't run much anyway without big time alternator change to be able to use it going down the road. with the current battery i would only be able to watch one movie, as long as it wasn't some critically acclaimed 3 hour thingie anyway. either one of you have some formula to figuring out how long it would take the on board converter/charger to recharge a totally dead deep cycle battery? thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 If you have the original converter, To do a partial charge, about 2-3 hours, To do a full charge (and it will not really be a full charge because the Converter voltage is to low) about 72 hours. AND - DO NOT leave shore power plugged in for extended time (months) as the original converter will boil your battery away. If your connected to shore power long term, disconnect the battery. (make sure the ends don't touch anything. I have a smal piece of water hose (about 3 inches long) that I shove over the PLUS wire terminal so it doesn't touch anything when its disconnected. The solution to this is to upgrade the converter to a three stage converter. JOhn Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 That depends a lot on the charger. If you are using an inverter they have a low voltage cut off but that will still leave you with a weak battery. If it's the stock charger it's only a few amps so figure quite a few hours, a good replacement charger usually is at least 35 amps so maybe 3 hours to return a full charge. If you are using your 400 watt inverter full tilt that's 30 some odd amps so you can check your battery's amp hour output and that will give you some ideal of your run time. Invest in a DVM (a usable cheap one maybe $15) and use a battery voltage chart and pretty soon you'll know how long you can use the inverter with a given load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eve "n" Stephen Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 If you want your deep cycle battery to last, you should never discharge it 100%! For long life, 50% is optimum for most deep cycle batteries, although they will last fairly long with 80% discharges. Also be aware that batteries are less efficient at high discharge rates. A 100 AH deep cycle battery may be capable of giving 10 amps for 10 hours to full discharge (10A times 10 hours=100 AH), but may only give 60 AH when discharge at a high rrate like 50 amps. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90toydolphin Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 thanks all for the added info. been trying to come up with a quicky cover for the battery wire, hadn't thought of the hose piece. will keep a piece in the battery compartment for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 All inverters have "idling current" the better ones are tosome extent adjustable but an inverter left plugged in will kill the batteryeven if it's not turned on eventually. I would not over rate the inverter 400 watts for a LCDTV is plenty. NAPA auto parts sells high current connectors (male/female) or most auto supply stores you can use very short cables bolted directly to your battery and the same on the inverter and simply plug it in when needed. Now if you want to go over the top ( I am guilty of that) you can do some rewiring in your breaker box add a breaker lift the wires for the converter/charger from the input on the main and put them on the added breaker turn off the breaker,plug your MH cable into the inverter and have power at all your sockets. You can not get away with that unless you disconnect the charger/converter other wise you'll be trying to charge the battery while you are taking power from it however if you manage to get away with it please PM me right away! I got away with it; I plug in my converter into my inverter all the time. No problemmo. Its the 1985 factory original too. "Clunk" it cuts in as soon as the inverter is powered up. I have run drills saw zaws etc off it (while idling the car.) I too wired my inverter into a spare fused 12 v slot in the breaker with #4 wire of 2 foot length from breaker to cab batt. Inverter is a 600 cont 1200 peak. Without car running, inverter will still run converter but only for about 45 minutes before alarm and cut out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 Are you saying that you plug your Shore power plug that into the converter? This will route Inverter voltage through the 110 volt circuit and make inverter power available at the outlets. It also runs 110 volts to your converter, that is now trying to charge the battery and supply the 12 volt circuit, basically trying to do a "Perpetual Motion" thing. I would guess that about 1/2 the power that is being consumed by the converter is wasted. ALSO - 600 watts at 12 volts is about 50 amps. Wire size and length are always important. JOhn Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Are you saying that you plug your Shore power plug that into the converter? This will route Inverter voltage through the 110 volt circuit and make inverter power available at the outlets. It also runs 110 volts to your converter, that is now trying to charge the battery and supply the 12 volt circuit, basically trying to do a "Perpetual Motion" thing. I would guess that about 1/2 the power that is being consumed by the converter is wasted. ALSO - 600 watts at 12 volts is about 50 amps. Wire size and length are always important. JOhn Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto I'm saying I plug my shore power cable into the inverter 110 outlet with a pigtail (to downsize from 30 AMP plug) (the shore power cable belongs to the Converter in my setup...). Yes, I do this to get 110 running at all sockets, if I need to. Like I said I dont usually do this unless the motor is running. I dont see a dang thing wrong with it either; because I have voltmeters on each battery I see the behavior is that the converter charges only the coach battery; the isolator charges the engine bay battery and evens everything out. This was done because i just didnt feel like running extension cords to watch TV and pc, etc (I have everything nicely tie wrapped.) to your comment on the amperage; yes I am familiar with OHMS law and know that my 65 Amp alternator is probably cooking. I am hoping for it to die soon just like the last 2 so that I may go back to the wife for approval to buy the powermaster. 185 Amps and same form factor.... Yum. I have run the inverter straight off of batteries and also plugged rig into inverter; to be honest it doesn't impact it. I'll get 35-45 minutes on the battery usually on the light loads I use. Just having the inverter turned on with nothing plugged in will deplete the battery also in 45 minutes. So again, nope; I don't see any parasitic loss from the loop, at least nothing worse than what the inverter does already. Also, It should be known that I use a 2 amp 50 watt wind turbine coupled with a 45 watt, 2 amp solar set form harbor frieght the times i do this without engine on. Its not enough to run the inverter forever but it will give me a solid 45 minutes no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 Excellent, Well that's a fast and easy way to get 110 volts to the outlets. :ThumbUp: JOhn Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 How do you deal with the converter/charger trying to charge the battery? I powered my converter/charger from the panel box with an added breaker and just turn off the converter breaker then plug in the city power plug into the inverter. They usually are wired directly to the input from the power cord at the main breaker meaning the converter/charger will run as soon as it's plugged in like it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 How do you deal with the converter/charger trying to charge the battery? I powered my converter/charger from the panel box with an added breaker and just turn off the converter breaker then plug in the city power plug into the inverter. They usually are wired directly to the input from the power cord at the main breaker meaning the converter/charger will run as soon as it's plugged in like it or not. I don't do anything about it; it loops... but i LIKE your idea, and have one spare breaker switch lying around in my basement. Again I don't think the charger loop loss is that bad from observation. the other thing I have been thinking about is adding a selector switch and wiring another set of cables to the inverter from the high output patch on the solar/wind controller. Now theres a good equation, how many watts could I get from two 25 volt 2 amp output dumps from solar and wind turbine... hmmm. 2 x 25.. 50 x 2... maybe 100 watts max? that could probably run my laptop and lcd tv indefinately... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 I modified my converter so I have everything on a separate breakers. If your is the same as mine, you can get those double breakers. Here's a link where I modified the converter, scroll down a little and you ca see where I modified the AC breakers. http://toyotamotorhome.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=3517 JOhn Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acudoc Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I added a 1,000 watt inverter I got a ebay. I have a 92 winnebago. The battery is under the rv near the front. Therefore I put it inside behind the passenger seat. There was already a hole there ( i enlarged it slightly to pass the cables thru ) Used a strain reliever to hold it in place and stop it from frying. There was also a hole in the battery holder (plastic) used a slip type reliever there because when I check the battery it has to slide forward. see pics. Henry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrgizmow Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Boy oh boy. I certainly like the idea of an inverter but really never gave much thought on how significant the load can be. Right now I have an old 225 watt back-up unit that was used to power my computer during shut down when the power failed. I have the board on this unit wired to the coach battery and then the output wired to a dedicated outlet under the dinette. This unit should be fine for the Wifes laptop. Like everyone, I am intriqued with having more power just in case. Think I would be inclined to mount any upgrade in the engine compartment. To keep it simple, at least in my mind, like Waiter, run a dedicated AC line to a couple of added outlets. Could I not gain a bit more flexibility in running 'off the battery' if I were to replace my standard truck battery with a deep cycle one. I know deep cycle is not designed for high discharge, but it does not seem to take much to turn over these 4 cylinder engines. I did some searching and did not find anyone starting their rigs with a deep cycle unit so my thinking must be askew. I would welcome your insights....... Thanks, Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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