Idaho Doug's Sunrader build

[IdahoDoug]

Extech - that's a great plan.  I was literally thinking about how to do that specific act - get the boxing to fit perfectly.  So, your plan means I will start with a piece of side boxing long enough to go all the way around, but don't sew the ends together until I've secured it to the top plate within 3 inches of each end.  Then essentially sew the loose ends together and go back and finish attaching the side boxing.  Tell me if I'm wrong there.  So, do I need to backstitch either of the spots where I'll stop 3" from each end?

 

On the throttle - good news there.  I chose the Singer Heavy Duty because US models only have a sensitivity adjustment on the circuit board that's set from the factory.  However, you simply open the throttle foot pedal thingy and dial it back.  I have mine dialed back pretty well, for slow operation, and I also added a heavier fly wheel so it punches through the leather better at low speed operation.  

 

Have a thread question.  As a home machine, I can't put large spools of thread on it, and the size 90 industrial thread is not available on smaller spools that will fit.  I also can't think of a way to put the 90 thread onto a smaller spool - my winder function is only designed to fill a bobbin, really.  Any thoughts on that?  I'm currently practicing with some HD outdoor upholstery grade thread which is working fine and all.  But the upholstery shop I got the leather from (and the large spool of thread that's useless) says they always use this larger thread.  I suspect they sell to people who do car interiors, which is a pretty demanding application actually.  When a car is in motion, the occupants are constantly in motion on the upholstery, it gets windborne grit, dirt, etc.  I'm thinking the dinette will not be as demanding and I can use this HD thread.  What say ye?  I'm feeling good about my choice, but if you know of a way to get my 90 thread onto smaller spools, I'll do it.

[extech]

you are right about the boxing. backstiching isn't needed, except you might need to as excess goofing with it could pull some stiches loose. i don't need to.

  you need to build a thread stand to hold the larger spools.   dose your machine use left thread or right.  makes a difference for the machine to work correctly

  you can google thread stands for inspiration

also do you need different needles for the larger thread?

[WME]

Wowie, I dig cylinder head torque, battery voltages and left hand wheel nuts, but left and right hand sewing machines???

Your on your own.😁

 

[extech]

it's which way the thread is twisted

[extech]

here is a simple thread stand made from a coat hanger.  make sure the top loop is higher than the machine. set it behind the machine

[IdahoDoug]

Got it.  I'll see about the thread twist - thank you for that input. If it helps you know the twist, it is a new Singer Heavy Duty.  Ordered a little bobbin winder peg that fits on it and turns it into a something that will hold a smaller household machine type spool which my machine uses, thus winding thread onto a spool I can use.  I see your diagram and will also do some research to fortify my knowledge.  So the loop higher than the machine - that's the loop of coat hanger the thread passes through - yes?  

 

On needles, good point.  I think the larger needles I ordered and have will be big enough but need to test.  What do you think of this thread I bought:

 

 

I'm a little worried it's overkill and as I have not run it through my machine and not sure it will feed well, etc.  And if you happen to know what the proper needle size is, I'd appreciate it - I bought several larger sizes.  I tested the machine on HD outdoor upholstery thread, and now that you've helped me resolve the "get the 90 thread through the machine" issue, I am fast approaching the time to test the 90 thread...

 

 

Edited February 28 by IdahoDoug

[extech]

your machine uses left or z twist thread. you just want to make sure of the twist when buying.  right twist is for multi needle machines that usually make a chain stitch.

  yes the loop at the top is to hold the thread

   i have not used that thread, but it has good reviews

  when switching to the bigger tread don't forget to adjust the bobbin tension along with the needle tension. 

 

   the reason i know this stuff is because i was trained by the air force for survival equipment

[extech]

p.s.  i water skied in your lake  (cour d lain) in the 70s.  girlfriend had relatives there.

  they had a strange way to ski because the water was so cold.   stand on the dock, ski on, loop of rope in hand.  boat takes off, throw the loop up, fly off the dock.

    ski around(don't fall), then ski up to the dock and sit down all without getting wet

[IdahoDoug]

Great input.  So, Sunday I'm hoping to finish cutting the pieces and will make a bent wire to fill an empty spool with the 90 thread and then do some trials to get the tension right.  Yes, that's pretty talented water skiing I must say!  I grew up on a small lake in Michigan but always sucked at water skiing.  Preferred sailing - quiet and peaceful.  

 

Thanks for passing on your input.  As you were working on survival equipment, it must have been overbuilt and that's the way I like to make things as well.  Will follow up.

[extech]

ha! i learned to waterski at a small lake in the u p

[IdahoDoug]

Well, that took a while.  Had a bunch of evening commits last week and finally got back to the dinette for a few hours this evening.  Finished marking off the 2nd hide for the box sides. These are the pieces that go on the sides of the cushions.   I have 501 inches of one size and 475 inches of another size all marked out and ready for cutting. Half a hide just for these - wow.  Sunday morning I'll cut it all out and my hand hurts already just thinking about it!

 

Buying an extra half hide (2.5 total) was a good move.  I've already used 1.5 hides, and will have just a fraction over .5 hide left after these parts are cut.  I will be using the remainder for a little mini-seat at the door so we can sit down and put on/take off shoes and such. It will be dual use as space is precious in these things.

 

Once these are cut, I'll turn to measuring and cutting the thick foam pieces that will go inside the cushions.  I've been using an electric turkey knife I bought for the styrofoam wall insulation pieces on the back side of the wall panels.  I think it will work very well for the upholstery foam as well. 

[Andrewups]

Before cutting the foam, deep your knife regularly in some cooking oil, you will be surprised how well/straight it will cut. Also, I think, with a regular kitchen knife you will have more control. In my case I did it with a kitchen knife.

[IdahoDoug]

Hmm, that's a new one I'd not heard of.  I'll do some experimenting with the cooking oil.  Thanks!

[extech]

i don't think you want oil anywhere near you leather

[IdahoDoug]

Great point.  Nor fabric coverings, now that you brought that up.  Its been working fine dry.  The trick that helps is to lay the foam across two tables with a slight gap. Then cut along the gap and the foam doesnt jiggle or bend.  

[IdahoDoug]

Extech, you are a stud.  That "leave a tail, measure and cut the last few inches of the side boxing" trick was absolutely genius.  It allowed me to absolutely nail the length, maintaining perfect tension, etc.  I finished sewing the leather cover for one cushion this evening.  Started the day doing all the cutting for both sizes of boxing (my back rests will be thinner).  I cannot believe it, but I have a total of 1001" of boxing:

 

 

Then, I cut the thick foam for all the cushions, and attached them to the boards with 3M Headliner adhesive. These will also get some batting, though I'm not entirely happy with the stuff I got at the fabric shop.  Might make the big drive over to the upholstery shop in Spokane to get their batting:

 

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Then it took me about 2 hours to make the wire thread holder, get the big needle in the machine, wind up enough thread, load the bobbin, then do some test runs.  I had to increase the thread tension quite a bit for that big dawg industrial thread.  Question for you: My top thread ends up tangling down in the bobbin often.  It's only at the end I notice when I pull the work out, I've got 3 threads instead of just the top/bottom threads and I have to pull the extra top thread out of the bobbin.  Any thoughts or adjustments?  It was doing this on the thinner thread I made the pillows with as well...

 

Extech - I took this picture for you.  Here, I've left a tail on the beginning and the end of the boxing and I'm showing you.  That really was a stress reliever as if you're off 1/4" on a 15 foot piece of boxing, you are hosed.  This makes it near impossible to screw up.  

 

I just measured a 1" overlap, put a mark where I wanted the stitching to go, trimmed the tail and smooth as silk.  Here's the first cover.  I just pulled it on without the batting to see how my measurements worked out and I nailed it.  The seams will be pulled tight when the batting's on, wrapped under and stapled to the wood and I think they're going to be military straight lines! Any suggestions here to use contact cement to prevent the leather from creeping around on the cushion?  I honestly can't think of a way to do it as the potential to be off a half inch is there and it would destroy the look.  Best just to tug and pull what will be tight leather covers on, and get it aligned and settled without glue?  I seriously cannot think of a way to even glue it to the batting as if I'm off a half inch and have to pull, the layers of batting will roll like a wave and it will look like crap. Dry apply? Thoughts?

 

 

[extech]

first i wouldn't use any glue.  next would you post a closeup pic of your stitches, one from front one from underside.  i may be able to figure out your tangle issue.

  to make your corners nicer, round the corners a bit.  that sharp 90 is really hard to get smooth

[IdahoDoug]

Glad for the glue input. 
 

back

[IdahoDoug]

Front. I increased the tension pull the bottom thread slightly into the stitch:

 

 

[extech]

your bobbin tension is too high. the knots should be halfway between the top and bottom.   you could look at it as the needle thread tension is too low also.  i would loosen the bobbin tension first and if still having trouble tighten both

[IdahoDoug]

I'll have to increase needle tension then.  Bobbin tension is not adjustable - this is a heavy duty model but it's still a home grade vs commercial...  Thanks - do you think that will help with the needle thread ending up getting sucked down into the bobbin (more needle tension)?

 

[extech]

increasing needle tension will pull the knots up more to where they belong,  

 your bobbins fit in a case that you drop in? or just put the bobbin in the hole.  i'm surprised there is no bobbin tension adjustment. have never seen a machine without adjustment possible.

[IdahoDoug]

Here's my bobbin.  Apparently this gets adjusted only during a professional service of some kind.  A clear plastic plate goes over it.

 

 

 

[linda s]

Little screw top right inside bobbin compartment

Linda S

[IdahoDoug]

Well, you both made me do research and the adjustment is actually on the bobbin frame on my model.  So I can remove it and pull that out and tweak it.  However, since my knots are visible from underneath, indicating I can simply increase needle tension to pull them up into the leather - is that the right way to go?  As a novice, I don't fully understand sewing machines.  It occurs to me if my bobbin tension is too high, and I'm countering that by increasing needle tension - do I risk breaking something in the machine with all this tension, or is that not an issue? 

 

And a related question, if my bobbin tension is too high for this double thick leather sewing job, will it also be WAY too high later when I'm using it on normal fabric, or is that not true.  Perhaps the opposite is true - with normal cloth the bobbin tension I currently have may be just fine? 

 

Just looking for some overall commentary here as I contemplate that the sewing is going fine so far, and if I start adjusting things, it may all go to hell in a handbasket.  Thoughts? What would you do, Extech?

[extech]

you can simply increase needle thread tension, but you risk having thread fray from over tension. the idea is to have the knots positioned correctly by matching bobbin and thread tensions.  

  it shouldn't matter the thickness of the material you are sewing, but the size of the thread changes the tension exerted . given the same tension adjustment a bigger thread will be tighter. this is why you have too much bobbin tension.

[IdahoDoug]

OK, thanks for the clarity.  Based on that, I think I'll leave things where they are on the bobbin and test more tension on the top/needle thread.  The thread is quite tightly wound and I have the correct larger needle for the thread. So things seem to be flowing nicely, no sign of thread fray, and I'm happy with the tension of the thread in the material - nice and tight.  

 

Quick question on venting the cushions.  I've drilled two 1" holes in the plywood bases as I don't want to hear high pressure air squeezing out, or have butt prints when standing up until it refills (!).  The foam seems remarkably able to flow air, as I can put my lips on it and exhale hard and barely feel resistance.  Is there any ad hoc standard, like 1" venting per square yard, etc?  I am also planning to put fabric on the bottom of the plywood to cover the raw wood so cushions can be set on the leather without scratching, etc.  

Edited March 11 by IdahoDoug

[IdahoDoug]

So, 2nd cushion's cover stitched.  Also built the "fill in" cushion of wood and foam, which is the last of the seating surface.  Still marveling at Extech's tip on leaving a tail on the boxing.  Used that again this evening, of course.  In fact, a definite God thing happened with it.  

 

I somehow messed up on the measurement for the length of the boxing I needed for this piece.  As I have various lengths of boxing precut - from 97.5" to 45", I am choosing which lengths to use to minimize boxing seams and maximize use of the pieces.  Well as I got close to the end, I looked in my lap, and was shocked the remaining boxing was ending short, and I'd expected to trim off 3" of excess!  Stoically and trying not to be upset, I completed the sewing and stopped where I'd have enough tail for ExTech's tip. I laid the tails together, and - what's this? - not merely close to what I needed, EXACTLY what I needed.  The two tail tips came together with a 1/2" flap on each side as if I were the most talented upholsterer in the western hemisphere and had precisely precut them.  He has a sense of humor - this I know.

 

So, here's the leather cover just fitted like the other to see if I got the fit right.  It's a great fit - not stuffed with the batting yet, nor stapled on, obviously:

 

[IdahoDoug]

Whew.  Starting to fully respect why the high end upholstery shop's estimate was $4400.  Not that I'm truly surprised - I always appreciate a craft.

 

Here's the dacron batting going over the foam. So glad I changed my mind and got the best stuff:

 

The piece I'm working on with batting, versus a cushion without it for comparison for my family to feel.  Shocking, Takes it from an ordinary boat cushion to suddenly feeling like a piece of fine home upholstery. You couldn't have convinced me there would be THIS much difference. Well worth the added hassle:

 

With the batting on and pulled properly tight, the corners all were pulled down. Inevitable, I think.  So I made 16 of these little corner fillers because I'm anal and wanted the dinette to present as a flat surface for sleeping, not lumpy. Glued with 3M, and worked perfectly to fill the corners crisply:

 

Ready to pull and staple the leather.  You can see the two holes I drilled.  Tested and they work perfectly - no upholstery "ballooning" when you sit abruptly:

 

 

First completed cushion - the largest one. Very happy the edges are straight, the leather seems pulled about the right tightness, and the fit is fantastic - WAY better than I'd hoped for.  I was prepared for adjustments and errors. It was this "subjective" portion I was most worried about.  Could I watch enough YouTube videos of grizzled fine upholstery folks pulling and stapling leather and swinging rawhide hammers I've never seen before, to discern how much they were pulling, how hard, and duplicate that on my first ever? Could I eyeball the seam every visitor to my Sunrader will see as I go along with the stapler and get it straight? Would the cover be off center if I stapled the first side too tight?  Very pleased so far... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MaineJed]

That looks so good, your a craftsmanship is top notch 

[Odyssey 4x4]

Those came out great. I have a family friend that did mine for $50 a cushion plus fabric so I jumped on the offer! It's one of the only two things I paid someone else to work on on my rig haha, the cushions and powder coating my rear bumper we made.

[extech]

well done grasshopper

[IdahoDoug]

Thanks! Having never done upholstery, I'm really pleased. I'm really looking forward to seeing how flat/sleepable these base cushions turn out. Extech - thanks for the assist. The batting gives them a mildly rounded contour, which I like from an appearance standpoint, but I was not prepared for how much it gives that classic leather softness as well - major bonus.  I hope when they're all laid out the surface is flat enough for comfortable sleep - hope I struck a happy medium.

 

This evening was a bust.  Low on batting, I only had enough to do one more before I have to make the trek to Spokane to get more.  Got the batting stapled on 3 sides and while pulling to staple the 4th, I tore the batting. Argh.  I also picked up a better staple gun.  This is going to be a LOT of staples and my big outdoor construction gun is just too risky with my fingers close by the tip all the time.  I also have plans for a cool surprise on the upholstery if I can pull it off...  Stay tuned.

Edited March 18 by IdahoDoug

[IdahoDoug]

2 of 4 base cushions done.  Got a little frisky with an edge and did not watch my tension as I got to a corner - whoopsie:

 

Fixed and secured the corner better after this pic:

 

 

 

 

[IdahoDoug]

All 4 dinette base cushions done.  Might lay them out so you can see how I've converted it into an upholstered lounge area for the 99% use, that converts to a dinette for 3+ one can sit in the hallway:

 

 

Started to get pretty straight with my staples near the end!