Idaho Doug's Sunrader build

[IdahoDoug]

Finally!  My wife helped get the last window remounted Thursday. They're all back in, with fresh sealant on the outside and new insulated mahogany panels and insulation on the inside. The little front windows in the sleeper have new frames, but won't be resealed until I install the marine fabric on the walls, then the inner frames will clamp that and the new sealant in the same step.  I have tape over the outside seals in the interim.  I'm hoping to get all the accumulated tools, scraps and detritus out on Sunday and start putting down new 1/2" plywood subflooring. Very satisfied with the Dicor butyl sealant I replaced the traditional butyl tape with, though it's incredibly stringy and more difficult to work with.

 

[IdahoDoug]

Well, new subfloor is in.  I used 9 tubes of the Loctite 3X construction glue and 100 screws.  Currently curing with an electric heater and pair of heat lamps. The white bags are 3 50lb bags of lead shot to press the wheel wells down.  Earlier I discovered my Sunrader coach had been built, or sunk such that the inboard walls of the wheel wells were resting directly on the Toyota frame and being pushed up as the coach had come down/settled with age.  So, I lifted the coach an inch on the chassis, and here I want the new floor pushed back down. So that's accomplished by pushing the wheel wells down a half inch or so. Defending my headroom wherever I can.  When the weights are removed, the new floor will probably spring up a bit, but when the cabinets are built, I'll be using a floor jack to put that same pressure back on the wheel wells to push the floor downward again.  

 

Anyhow, super happy that I accomplished this by Thanksgiving.  I have a half dozen exterior vents and access doors to reinstall over Thanksgiving to completely water seal the exterior, and then can move it around to the side of the house.  Update on the tail lights.  They're a perfect fit, but Sunrader did me no favors.  The right tail light has an incredible 1/4 inch wobble along its opening which they "adjusted" with massive amounts of silicone. So my plan to 3D print a surround/wedge that will point the lights straight down the road is on hold until I decide how I'm going to fix that and get a straight body edge surface.  Likely body putty.  The current Sunrader taillights point downward at the road, rather than straight back where maximum brightness is achieved and I want to fix that with my school bus brake and turn lamps. 

 

Anyhow, here's the floor - 1/2" Baltic Birch plywood which is more rigid than most, and pricey but not outrageous:

 

Edited November 28, 2024 by IdahoDoug

[IdahoDoug]

Alright - started on the dinette today.  I had a plan to use 1X1 oak as framing, but when I got to Lowes they said "never heard of it, never had it.".  I want something strong and am not using any pine in the build.  So I had to switch gears. I'm now using aluminum L brackets around the perimeter which take up a fraction of the space, with the same rigidity.  For the cross beams, I'll make solid 1/2" birch plywood vertical walls which will be the front of the fresh water tank compartment (right side) and the electrical compartment (left side).  Interestingly, I'm leaving the propane hatch in the rear and will make a matching hatch forward of this, so I can slide long things through both openings and all the way down the hallway.  I'll also leave the left rear hatch, and not put a wall on that side's storage area, so I can toss things in there that go all the way across to the fresh water tank's compartment wall.  Too bad neither opening is large enough for nice lawn chairs, eh?

 

Here's a shot of the installed aluminum perimeter, and the laser leveling showing it perfectly aligned. I'm using both glue and stainless screws here, and elsewhere I used outdoor grade.  The factory used poorly coated screws which deteriorated the wood and let everything start working loose.  It's a pipe dream, but I'd love to have this drive down the road without the usual squeaks and rattles.  I leveled the Sunrader with jacks already, so these reference lines will work for the rest of the build.

[Andrewups]

Great job, keep going 👍!!! 

[IdahoDoug]

So, true confession. I've never built cabinetry before and I'm feeling a little "off the map".  Not above my pay grade quite, but I can't seem to start this part of the process.  I noodled around deciding to install the fridge first, which must be precisely placed, or the rear dinette so I'm not wishing I'd not built something forward of it that's in my way.  Opted for the dinette and got as far as you see above.  That's when I realized I need the rear wall of the kitchen and the rear wall of the fridge cabinet as hard points to complete the dinette frame.  Which means I have to decide the entire layout, shape and size NOW of practically the whole interior, cause it's all connected.  Argh.

 

Unlike all the cute van builds we can see online, I can't build something in the garage and open a huge sliding side door or rear dual cargo doors, slide it in and bolt it down.  This has to be stick built.  And I'm going for bombproof and if I screw something up, I'll be dealing with screwed and glued in place to undo things. 

 

Not sure why this is just occuring to me on a random Wednesday evening, but there you have it.  If anyone has a guide, experience or a workable process I'm all ears.  I'm OK building it stick by stick and have a laser for perfect horizontal and vertical guides.  Thoughts?

[Andrewups]

I used plywood for framing, cutted strips off 1/8 fine plywood, made sandwiches with 3 layers so I can have male/ female connection. I think plywood is better than wood because of the weight. In my opinion, all along your project you should keep in your mind the final weight of your rig. In the end the rig should be solid but not heavy. The weight  will impact mpg and the brake distance, it can overcharge truck engine and transmission. There are some pictures of what I did, if I can be more helpful let me know.

 

https://toyotamotorhome.org/forums/index.php?/topic/19663-92-warrior-step-3-roof-kitchen-and-the-rest-of-it/

[IdahoDoug]

OK.  Merry Christmas Eve one and all.  I've gotten special dispensation from Santa to open a few presents today and get moving. Lots of cordless power tools! My buddies will be happy as I'm now able to return theirs after many months. Installed the rear wall of the Fridge cabinet and just walked in the door.  Using 1/2" Baltic Birch ply for the heavy load bearing end walls and may drop down to 3/8" marine grade for the fronts.  

 

Here, it got tweaked, fiddled and finally managed to get this odd shaped wall to friction fit in place.  I wanted it shoving up a bit on the ceiling and also shoved firmly against the wall panel - both of which are slightly curved.  You'll note the FedEx bags - that's 150lbs of lead shot to simulate the loaded floor, so when I'm done later the structure should be properly in tension.  Same on the other side of the RV. Then, I used a Bosch laser to draw lines on all 3 surfaces, screwed and glued cedar braces on all 3, then glued and screwed the wall to these braces.  As I've said from the beginning, I suspect I'll add a hundred pounds of wood vs the factory, as I have opted for cabinetry that will handle rough backcountry travel since this Sunrader may get lifted and 4WD.  I'm also using structural screws for the main supports, vs ordinary wood screws.  

 

Next is the rear wall of the kitchen unit.  You'll see in the picture, the rear wall goes all the way to the ceiling, though I think later Sunraders had an open shelf here above the fridge which gave it more of an open feeling.  I had planned to do this on mine, but could not walk away from the structural rigidity of glueing and screwing it to the ceiling.  Plus maintaining the storage here as I may eliminate some overhead storage above the dinette to open it up that way. 

 

 

Detail shot showing the new subfloor glued and screwed with structural screws, then the cedar braces also screwed and glued to the subfloor using structural screws.  Lots of construction glue pushout - should be near zero creaks if I can maintain this level of build.  Spot in the back corner is left open to run wires - I scalloped the corner of the plywood to open a tunnel. 

 

Edited December 25, 2024 by IdahoDoug

[IdahoDoug]

Well, continuing to peck away at this.  I have most of the frame in place for the new dinette.  I've tweaked its size and shape to my liking.  I've always found the cramped dinettes with their perfectly vertical uncomfortable backrests and a predictable table that's kinda in the way the 97% of the vehicle's usage you are not eating inside.  We almost never eat inside our current vehicle when camping - preferring to sit under the awning outside in camp chairs, or at a picnic table.  And a traditional straight backed dinette is no fun for lounging.  

 

So this will be a 52"X 76" lounge pit, designed for napping, reading, lollygagging, etc.  Here, you can see the front wall of the frame has a cutout, which perfectly matches the opening in the rear of the coach where the propane tanks used to live.  The wall will get a door later. I radiused the corners to maintain max stiffness in the important rear of the Sunrader which flexes so much.  You can see a piece of white styrofoam in front of the propane door just to help with

heat retention while I'm restoring it.

 

I will be able to carry lumber for home projects, or a camping umbrella or awning, etc.  Just 1 more frame member to go and then I can start learning to sew leather for the upholstery and make the cushions.  I am also leaving the left side storage door's path all the way across to the water tank compartment on the right side, by using an aluminum spar to support the cushions on that side.  That will allow additional storage options kind of like modern motorhomes have "basements" that are storage that goes the full width of their body.

 

As you can see, everything is still both screwed and glued to everything, and you can't see them, but there are also corner reinforcements everywhere to maximize structural strengths.

 

Hope you are all well!

 

 

 

 

[IdahoDoug]

Today, I got all three of the dinette cushion bases cut.  Here the are laid in position:

 

 

The open area under the driver's side panel (rearward of the tall wall) is the electronics cubby. It will hold a Victron Multi, the fuse box, DC charger, etc.  The vertical support piece that will block that off extends forward and becomes the face panel for the cabinetry in one piece all the way to the bathroom unit, so will be installed later.  Sunrader made all this out of several thinner pieces, which probably constantly shifted, wiggled and wobbled. But I am going for max strength and one monolithic piece screwed and glued to the floor and spanning this length will massively stiffen the structure.  Originally these driver's side (left) wall cabinets were 3 different depths (to the wall).  With my larger fridge, mine will be a couple inches deeper and I'm going to carry that all the way to the bathroom.  This will give me a couple meaningful inches additional storage.  I also had to be very careful not to make it too deep to reinstall the original Suburban furnace, so I had to manipulate it and trial assemble it.  Turns it it has enough flexibility to handle this added depth.  By a mere 1/4"!  Pretty excited about that. 

[Ctgriffi]

Great work, Doug! Really enjoy seeing your progress, so thanks for posting. Any idea yet what will be the final finish on these exposed wood surfaces?

[IdahoDoug]

I'm afraid it's just going to be white paint, though I originally envisioned some nice varnished wood like a boat interior.  The reason is the white will keep it bright and feeling spacious inside.  That's mahogany walls panels and baltic birch for everything else.  It's pretty small and tight, and I want to accomplish an airy feel through light colors.  I feel a bit like I'm copping out on my intention to have some gorgeous varnished wood in there, so a bit sheepish about it, frankly.

 

There will be some colors - perhaps on the drawers or the cabinet doors.  The floor may be a fairly distinct look as well, and the dinette upholstery is already decided as a nutmeg - ish Italian leather.

[Ssunrader]

If you can manage to find some of the Sherwinn Williams DTM acrylic paint, it’s very good stuff. Have used it on cabinets and holds up well, is washable. 

 

Can use a small foam roller and get a slight texture like a commercial airplane interior.

Edited February 8, 2025 by Ssunrader

[IdahoDoug]

Thanks, will look at it, and you nailed a concern over the quality of the paint. I have seen others paint cabinets, and the paint seems to remain tacky, or on a hot humid day in a vehicle it becomes soft. So definitely willing to spend what it takes for hard drying paint like what you describe.

[linda s]

And your wife is OK with that? Solid white is boring. Since you used a nice wood like birch you could stain at least some areas with a whitewash finish. More interesting and it hides dirt too

Linda S

You can always paint over it if you don't like it but once it's painted you can never go back.

[IdahoDoug]

Linda - you are the second person who's opinion I respect to say that.  I will check into it - good idea.

[IdahoDoug]

Tonight I finally started actually cutting and sewing leather for the rear lounge/dinette.  Since it's a new machine and I have not sewn since I was a little kid (thanks, Mom!!!), I thought I'd start small.  I wanted to make 3 matching leather throw pillows, so here is the first:

 

[IdahoDoug]

[Andrewups]

Nice job, looks very comfy.👍

[Ctgriffi]

Nice work and, dang, that leather is beautiful. Perfect way to stay productive in the winter months, too! (I am also thankful for a mom that taught me some sewing, though it wasn't her forte, bless her heart! A skill that comes in handy at every stage of life.)

Edited February 17, 2025 by Ctgriffi

[IdahoDoug]

Thanks.  So I'm anguishing how to cut the leather cushions.  Some sources say make the foam 1/2" larger than the desired final size, but none of them wrapped the foam with poly batting as I am to help the pricey leather feel as soft as I paid for it. Leather directly on the firm foam I chose would easily feel like vinyl, I suspect.  With the batting, when you sit on it, or run your hand on it, the leather can deflect and showcase its suppleness.  I'm concerned that I also want the completed cushions to be a friction fit against one another, so they don't move at all, but if they're too tight my intention to hinge/gas strut the center piece will be a pain to lift, etc.  If I did this for a living, I'd know.  I also forgot I had not bought the batting yet, so I did during lunch and when I unrolled it, I could tell it needs to "re-loft" itself after being wrapped in a tube.  So, no work this evening, save a bike workout on the trainer and watching "Platoon".  

[Ctgriffi]

I like the desire to do it RIGHT—can get behind that mentality all day long. Maybe you’ve landed on a good approach already, but I wonder if you could make a mini test cushion or two to get a feel for what works, without blowing through a bunch of material until you’re confident?

[extech]

yep. use an old towel or sheet to practice

[linda s]

Are you putting in a side piece to accommodate the loft of the foam. Good furniture has both zippers and an internal smooth cover to keep the foam and batting smooth. Go look at cushions in your home furniture. 

Linda S

[extech]

linda has a good point.  have you sewn in a zipper?  maybe more practice needed

[IdahoDoug]

So, these will be traditional box construction, with a top panel, and side panels, and the foam will be wrapped with poly batting.  I had planned on doing welting on the seams, but decided against it for two reasons.

 

One, this is supposed to be the ultimate cozy lounge for day use - reading, napping, propped up against the padding with a laptop, etc.  The same way you'd use a couch at home, except the couch will be more like a big padded nest wide enough for two to stretch out full length.  The welting would not feel cozy as it would create strips of two weltings pressed together.  

 

Two, I have looked at upholstery in yachts, high end campers, etc and realized how often even pricey experts get it wrong the the welting creates and easily seen wobbly line.  The usually do not line up, which is discordant to my eye. Over time, sometimes the welting can expand into a wavy pattern even if it was originally tensioned pretty close to the material.  And leather is very unforgiving in this respect where fabric can tolerate more without showing so bad.  Tension two pieces of leather slightly differently, then sew them together, and it will quickly turn a straight welting into a series of waves. As it's my first go around, if I get that wrong, I'll be profoundly unhappy.  

 

I know I sound like an expert.  I am not.  A lot of my knowledge of upholstery comes from years as a Product Planner for GM's luxury and sporty car lines, and then doing the same at Lexus.  Part of that job is coordinating with a Color and Trim team and meeting with fabric and leather vendors to pick what's going into the upholstery.  So I've sat through many presentations in a room with thousands of fabric/leather/paint samples, speaking with the experts about aging, uniformity, durability, appearance, feel to the hand, etc and learned a lot about how this difficult job gets done.

 

As for the zipper - no zippers.  The bottom of these cushions are already cut out and they are Baltic Birch 1/2" plywood so there is no creaking or movement, and they also are lids.  I've gone to great pains to increase the functionality of storage under the "lounge", and key to that is these pieces will be sturdy lids for the underlying space.  This makes my job quite a bit easier in constructing these cushions, as the boxlike piece of leather will be pulled down over the batting-wrapped high density foam onto the plywood and stapled into place.  That means I can carefully adjust the tension of the leather and (hopefully), nail the seams so they match from piece to piece and do not wander.  I'll be ventilating the bottoms of the boards so you don't get that "I just sat on a plastic bag" feeling.

 

My wife just left on a trip to visit our daughter for the weekend, and our son is headed out backpacking into the snowy woods tomorrow morning for the weekend.  So, the timing is perfect for me to crank on this.  I have two 7X8 hides to lay out on the floor and line out all the pieces, then cut them all, without being in anyone's way.  I just need the cats to cooperate, as they love to dive into things like this.  They are very excited already.  The 12X12 poly batting has been hanging over the balcony railing to expand properly for a couple days and a huge piece of high density foam has been leaning against the piano for several days, also to expand and become uniform in thickness after sitting rolled in the garage for 9 months.  I'll post pictures and I appreciate the continued input!

 

On an internal cover, I will be using contact cement to secure the batting to the foam to ensure uniform smoothness.  If I did a zipper and had to shove the foam/batting in, I would definitely use that "silk" product Linda mentions which helps get it all properly smooth inside the outer cover.  If I'm bold, I may try something REALLY over the top here, but I'll reveal that if it works!!

[linda s]

Yes that will definitely work. I would use headliner spray glue instead of the contact glue though. It will have less effect on the loft of the batting and cushions will be plumper.  Can't wait to see

Linda S

[extech]

 sounds like boat upholstery.  may i suggest you use stainless staples also.  are there backs to be made in the same fashion?

[extech]

i did my dinette as original

[IdahoDoug]

Hmm good call on the stainless....  Backrests - yes. Will be thinner foam, same leather, and easily removable, so the entire surface will be available for sleeping if we have a guest.  Wow, ExTech - so I'm not the only dude with a sewing machine, eh?  Pretty cool. Yours looks great. I see we also share a penchant for a splash of color (fish).  I think you'll like the final interior...

 

Linda, I'll be using the same product as I adhered all the new foam insulation to the back of the new mahogany wall panels - 3M's #08074 Spray Trim Adhesive Clear.  I see why you suggest paying attention to the adhesive by the way as the can clearly states "Low Soak-in: Adhesive lays on the surface rather than soaking into the material."  I had not noticed that before and got this as it's automotive rated, which many glues are not and will fail on a hot summer day as a result. That would indeed preserve the loft of my batting - thanks.

 

Just as an aside, I continue to be amazed at the deep and wide knowledge on this website.  Can't count the number of times I've spent time researching things for this project, only to find one or more of you kind folks already know even more about the esoteric little thing I just became an "expert" on.....😄

Edited February 20, 2025 by IdahoDoug

[IdahoDoug]

Well, was hoping to start on the sewing by Sunday, but wow.  Once I fully diagrammed out the individual pieces, made some patterns to get them to fit the hides, and started cutting pieces, the weekend was over!  It will have 45 individual leather parts, and I got through cutting out the largest 10 by the end of Sunday.  Sophie the cat was on hand to supervise, bat sharpie markers around, and carry off misc pieces.

 

[extech]

what are you using for seam allowances? on big projects like this they can add up to considerable yardage.

[IdahoDoug]

Extech - Get your keister over here and help me out!  Heh - if you're asking questions like that, I can tell you're someone I'll be asking questions from as I go through this if I get stuck.  So, I wanted really badly to use 1/4" seam allowances, because that's a LOT of "wasted" pricey material times 45 parts.  But I'm sticking with the recommended 1/2" as it will be better for control of the material and such.  Make sense? 

 

Funny you should ask about that, too.  I am learning this all on the fly.  In the photo, the pieces of wood are the actual base of the dinette seating, so those are "final size" which needs a 1/2" border all the way around.  The paper patterns are "cut size" which already has the seam allowances accounted for, so I just trace directly around.  When I had them all laid out, I realized with a start that I'd better not just trace around the wood bases or I'm hosed.  So I immediately got some tape and labelled everything that was not a cut size so I wouldn't screw up. So that green tape says "FINAL SIZE - DO NOT TRACE!" or something.  Those pieces are all cut now.  Using a rotary cutter per the lady at the fabric store when she heard what I was doing and how much cutting.  She's correct - this is the hot setup..

[extech]

i use 1/2 inch if im going to add a welt , otherwise is go with 1/4

[IdahoDoug]

For control of the pricey material, the 1/2" will span the sewing machine's base plate gripper/driver thingy more reliably and straighter.  I tried 1/4" in making the pillows and sometimes the machine wouldn't drive the material - stalled and I had to lift the foot and encourage it.  I also got a walking foot, so this gives more even pressure to the foot that lands close/on the 1/4" edge, by having it land solidly on the leather.  The machine thinks its NASCAR "Floor it and turn right.." - heh.  Kills me to waste the material, but I'm well over $1500 for the upholstery materials and figured this would increase my odds of nice straight stitches, making up for my complete lack of experience.  Next up is to cut all the side boxing, which will take nearly 1 hide of 58 square feet.

[extech]

don't blame you for the bigger allowance.  bummer to have a touchy throttle. my industrial machine uses a clutch to drive it so slipping the clutch makes it slow

  when doing the boxing, start about 3 inches from the end, and end 3 inches short.

  find and mark where the two meet on the front piece.   mark them at a perpendicular and sew... now sew where you left off and the sides will fit perfectly