Idaho Doug's Sunrader build

[IdahoDoug]

Alright.  Cooking with gas now!  Left window is glued in place.  It will cure for 3 days now, and then I'll see what we've got.  It was a fiasco as all these things are.  The saving grace was the long working time - 45 minutes.  Special primer goes on the coach wall - sloppy is OK as it's getting painted - and on the window itself after both surfaces are sanded and degreased.  Then caulk a tall fin of the glue.  I used pieces of "L" bracket held on with 3M adhesive tape as guides so we could simply lay the window on these little shelves and push it into final position.  The wood holds some tension on to be sure the copper nubs are bottomed out on the fiberglas. I had other techniques in mind to secure it without drilling and screwing these in, but got uneasy and figured I should have a serious plan if it all went pear shaped.  It did.  I needed to blast these screws into the predrilled holes.  If memory serves, the fit is better on the right window, so I should have less of a chinese fire drill on my hands for it next week.

 

 

That's a heat lamp in position as it's evening and I'll leave that going for a few days to help cure things despite night time temps of 50 - the bottom edge of it's cure temp.

 

 

 

[MaineJed]

Quite a process you have done there, would love to see the outside 

[IdahoDoug]

Will post up when the process is complete.  Because the glue can be seen through the window, it will be sloppy looking.  I'll be covering the edges with radiused trim of black 3M wrap material.  This will give it a neat appearance, and is why your automobile's rear and front windows have black patterns on them also - covers the glue beneath.  It also shields the glue from UV, which weakens it over time.  I sprung for the pricey UV resistant version, but the 3M material will extend it's life just the same.

Edited September 17, 2024 by IdahoDoug

[IdahoDoug]

SUCCESS!  I removed the braces holding the left window in while it cured.  Total cure time will end tomorrow (Thurs) evening at 3 days, though it's long been cured enough it's not going anywhere.  I'm really pleased.  In the pictures below it looks terrible cosmetically right now, but if you zoom in you can see the actual edge of the window is neat and straight.  I'm applying an inch wide black border around the window which will hide the glue edge, and of course all the body will be scraped clean of excess and it will be painted.  

 

Curious how strong it is, I pulled on it.  Then pulled hard.  Followed by really, really hard.  No movement.  So I hung my entire body weight off it, with my fingers gripping the top edge.  180lbs and zero movement. I pounded hard on it with the heel of my fist and it feels SOLID and like it would stop a pretty impressive piece of road debris at road speed. Two layers of this polycarbonate will stop a small caliber bullet. Super happy with this result.  Here's a few pictures:

 

 

And here's a picture to remind you all that the Chinese are still sending us junk.  You will recall I bought 1/8" rubber to thicken the edge of the window holes as a last ditch effort to get the moldings and acrylic windows to work about 6 months ago.  It was from Amazon and when I pulled it off today, here's what it looks like.  Pure junk - not even been exposed to UV and it just broke down to absolute trash.  I'd have been pretty pissed if the acrylic windows had gone in, only to have this stuff disintegrate and leak. Dodged a bullet here:

 

 

Edited September 19, 2024 by IdahoDoug

[WME]

👍

[MaineJed]

Are you planning on doing that process on all the windows as well?

[Ctgriffi]

Amazing, sounds like you're back on track, making real forward progress, Doug! Heckuva difficult job you've taken on with this complete window redo, but it seems like the momentum on the whole project is only going to build from here! Any thoughts of a rough ETA when she might be road-worthy and camp-able again?

[IdahoDoug]

Thanks for the kind words!  On the other windows - absolutely not.  We are blessed with the Sunrader that ALL other windows are automotive grade glass, which is impervious to UV damage and why they are crystal clear after 42 years.  Other RVs used acrylic windows and they'd be in poor shape.  I'm pulling them all off fairly soon as I am pulling the wall paneling down and replacing it with the same mahogany I used on the entire ceiling. They'll go back on with fresh seals (just between frame and body), and I'm all ears if anyone has successfully used something instead of the original butyl tape. I bought a caulk product from the same folks who make the amazing self leveling roof vent sealant but have not decided vs butyl, yet.

 

Ct - yes, once I get the right wraparound window to its final shape and install it, things will be back on track and hopefully happen quickly.  With the unit watertight again, I can easily heat it through the winter and work on the interior in comfort.  I'll move it to a winter spot closer to the house as well.  My target is to have it ready for late spring camping - end of May.  The list of tasks is pages and pages long, the diagrams of various layouts and interior spaces is also pages. Next is remove wall paneling, replace the floor, then new wall insulation and paneling, then the floor.  This will actually be quite tedious as I'm going to have to install "hard points" all over behind the paneling for various features I have in mind, plus prewire for these features, and recently realized my new school bus grade tail lights (bright!) mean I have to install them with the paneling out when I have access for any fiberglass work to reshape the light openings.  Lots to do!

[IdahoDoug]

Window is in final shape.  Just need to finish sand the edge and flame gloss it where you use a torch to briefly melt it for a nice look.  Then prime it and the coach opening and put it in place.  Hopefully Friday afternoon I will get this done so I can chill over the weekend while it cures and start moving on.  Close!

[IdahoDoug]

Wow, something went to plan, on the day I planned the install!  Pinch me!  2nd wraparound window is done and installed.  Takes 3 days for a full cure, and I used 50% more glue on this one as there is only a small downside - trimming excess off with a razor, and it's actually easy due to the final rubbery texture.  Doesn't grab the razor.  The glue also does not stick on the polycarbonate where there is no primer.  Having learned that, I went hog wild on the $45/tube glue, knowing cleanup is a breeze.

 

 

[Ctgriffi]

Amazing work, getting over this hurdle—has to feel really good! (Maybe I’m in the minority but, even as an avid diy guy, it never occurred to me that one could manufacture the Sunrader cabover windows at home! Quite an achievement: the making + installation.)

 

Look forward to seeing and hearing about the next phases of this project!

[IdahoDoug]

Thanks.  Pretty relieved Plan B worked. I realized also that someone bent on regular cold weather use could install another window on the inside and have double pane windows. To get the benefit, they'd have to do this throughout, however the rest of the windows are all flat and would be a cinch to replace with surface mount polycarbonate.  I would never give up the opening/screened windows personally, but someone out there might. 

 

Today I'm headed out to spend a bit of time planning.  I feel like I need to re-engage my brain as I had a flow of sequences in mind months ago and that's all gone.  Also kind of upset I found a piece of the pink foamular loose above the sleeping area and pulled it the rest of the way down to find the glue had let go of the foam.  For some reason the glue was in a bead - having not been properly smashed by my upward pushing roller treatment and subsequent propping up with multiple sticks, etc to dry.  I will have to literally chisel off the old glue and redo it before proceeding.  I suspect the ceiling is curved so much only the edges of the piece were pushed together, so I'll have to taper it for proper glue contact.  Glad it happened before I put up the fabric and foam ceiling, so a minor blessing of this delay!!!!

[IdahoDoug]

Cleaned the glue off the ceiling with the chisel, made long deep slits in the foam so it would conform to the curved part of the front of the sleeper, and reglued it.  

 

I also made the decision to completely remove the metal box that protrudes under the rear dinette, which holds twin propane bottles.  Here you can see it is gone and I subsequently replaced the door.  I may actually keep it like this, as being able to load things straight down the hallway may be useful some day.  I'll just fix the seals and make the door water/fume tight and leave it sealed unless I later find a use for it.  I'm going to try installing a single propane bottle behind the left rear wheels, hanging from the frame.

 

I swung by Home Depot and got some water line as soon I'll have the bathroom back in place and these have to be run first.  Nice these days you can get red and blue water line for hot and cold.  

 

Then, I had a look at the floor.  My floor is bulged up in the area of the rear fenderwells.  I knew I was going to have to deal with something there, and the answer I found was it was caused by a huge error in manufacturing.  The inner edges of the fenderwells are literally smashing down on the frame, which is clearly the way it was built as there is no settling evident other than about a half inch drop according to my straight edge from side to side, and visually perhaps twice that longitudinally.  I can't confirm this yet, as the area of the floor in between the wheel wells is bulged upward over 1.5 inches.  Perhaps even 2. So all this time there has been massive weight on the wheel wells and much less on the mounts intended to take the weight.  The spot where it's sitting on the wheel wells is halfway between two mounts, and all of the mounts look normal with no punching up or distortion into the aluminum floor layer on the bottom at all. 

 

The Toyota frame has an upward curve/bulge to go over the axle, and there must have been a step where the thick fiberglas wheel wells were supposed to have been trimmed/curved to match, but mine are perfectly straight.  Over time after it was built, the fenderwell inboard walls must have pushed up with the weight of the coach pushing up on them. As they're fiberglassed to the top layer of the floor, just that layer of the floor lifted up with them.  

 

 

So, I'll be following the footsteps of many others who have completely replaced their floors.  My plan is to cut the lag bolts holding the coach to the frame ( back 4 done already), then lift the coach body off the fenderwells, pull the wheels, trim the fenderwells to clear the frame arches with a sawzall, and let the coach back down and see if I can force the fenderwells back down with weights where I'll fiberglas them to the new floor, or if they won't readily move, I'll try something else.  Perhaps they'll move some, and I'll trim the floor to match whatever lowering I achieve.  Either way, the weight of the coach will be back on the mounts, and the road noise that must have been transmitted from the body sitting directly on the frame will be diminished.

 

I'm also going to put spacers in the rear 4 mounts to raise the coach a half inch or so - whatever it takes to offset the minor settling that's occurred.  Depending on the location of metal crossmembers hidden under the floor I'll find when I remove the top layer of wood, I may add additional bracing as well.  Happily, there are some great tips on doing this here on the forum.

[IdahoDoug]

Today, I moved the Sunrader onto the concrete drive to jack it up, remove the foolies, and confirmed what I wrote above.  The fiberglas wheel well's inboard edge is resting on the arched section of the frame over the axle:

 

 

In the closeup you can see the fiberglas has been grinding and wearing itself to the shape of the frame with a LOT of pressure. Looks like it's ground away an eighth inch or so, and the fiberglas' skin is flared out onto the frame:

 

Now the good news.  I was able to speak with Yestertech from this forum, who did an amazing floor replacement job on his 18 footer (mine's a 21) and he explained how he jacked his up.  I was worried about lifting on the floor and damaging it as I'm fearful of the weight of even just the empty shell as I have now.  Worked out great and I was easily able to lift the coach with all 6 bolts removed.  Importantly, I replaced the 4.5 inch or so bolts with 6" bolts before lifting.  The last thing you want to do is have zero bolts, lift the coach, and then spent a bunch of time trying to realign it back down on the frame.  Here's a picture of the gap with an inch of "body lift" at the rear mount:

 

 

In anticipation of this success, I ordered new steel yesterday, which will arrive tomorrow.  Should take me an evening or so to cut new 1" steel beams to lay down on the rear two cross beam body mounts, and I also got some 3/4 steel for the forwardmost 3rd mount closer to the cab.  I don't want to create twisting force on the cab, and though this shift will rotate the camper just .5 degree versus the cab if my geometry is correct, I'd like to support the floor as flatly as possible by making the new supports a theoretical wedge that narrows toward the front, yet provide a slight lift at the front against likely some settling of the coach vs the cab that's occurred over the years. Definitely a subjective call, but I think directionally a bit of lift up front is wise, given these coaches "settle" over the years.  Once that's done, I'll put some weights on the floor and figure out a way to pull the wheelwells down where they're supposed to be and have a flat floor.  I had my son jump up and down on top of the wheel wells while I watched from outside, and he was able to flex them easily, so it will not require as much force as I'd been afraid of, given how thick those wheel wells are!

 

I may actually simply drill into the wheel wells and use a hook in the frame's square holes to get the floor flat, and then just leave them there.  Anyhow, pleased lifting the coach off was easier than expected.  To remove the bolts, I simply used a cutoff wheel instead of trying to unscrew them.  The first two simply spun, so I quickly switched and it took 6 minutes for all to be cut from inside the coach.  You'll dig into the floor a bit, but better than laying on your back, and the floor's being redone anyhow.

 

Cheers.

 

Oh, and PS:  With the foolies off, I was able to measure the distance from the spring perches on my axle and compare that to the 1-ton FF axle I bought.  Identical!  Meaning no fabrication to swap the axles.  Just switch out the differential and input shaft.  Woohoo!  Must be one of the Toyota replacement axles they sent out under warranty.

Edited October 2, 2024 by IdahoDoug

[IdahoDoug]

Wow, progress seems suddenly the order of the day.  With $80 worth of steel, I lifted the coach an inch simply by laying the same steel the Sunrader rests on for mounts, atop the current mounts.  Then simply drilled from the coach floor down to line up the old holes and dropped new bolts down through both.  Voila!  We had a meeting to be at 6pm, and I picked up the steel during my lunch, then started on this at 4pm.  Super easy - was done before we left for the meeting.  Just keep in mind the rear piece and the front piece (there are 3 full width cross member mounts on the 21' model) you won't be able to wiggle in the new steel in a single piece.  It's no issue at all, since you're simply adding spacers.  This gives you a choice where you put a small gap between them so it's easier to string wire under the floor as well - I chose dead center for lack of a guiding need.

 

Truly simple - I don't think I have 2 hours into lifting the coach an inch! And the goal was achieved - now the coach wheel wells are no longer touching the frame as I'd hoped:

 

I'll still cut away a half inch or so to ensure I have room to push the wheel wells down, which will re-align that section of the floor with the rest, and make my floor work easier.  Also, I want to be sure when I add all the weight back in that this does not touch again.  

 

As a side note, I was astonished/disappointed at how flexible the rear section of frame is without the coach body attached.  It's a flexible flyer back there and no wonder things are sagging as the wood ages. The amount of movement from road driving obviously keeps that floor flexing constantly, which will loosen fibers, loosen the connections at the mounts, and just generally cause wear and tear to the structure.  I am going to glue and screw my interior together in hopes of ending up with a more capable and stiffer structure.  I'll try to remember pictures, but I also was able to extend the support of all 3 steel supports - one by nearly a foot.  Taking the steel all the way to the sides of the coach has paid off for others, and should help here as well.  I will also add a couple more bolts from the floor to the frame.  The more connection points, the stiffer the overall structure will be, and the coach is WAY stiffer than the frame. 

 

I also loosened the rear cab mounts to get the 3/4" steel spacer under the front steel support.  I needed a second jack up front to get enough clearance and didn't want to put any twisting on the cab while jacking.  Now that it's settled back down on the mount, I'll tighten them again along with the new hardware on the coach mounts.  

 

 

[IdahoDoug]

Discovered the factory forgot to drill the mount for the forward most mount on the left side near the bathroom.  Fixed that and ran a bolt through it, choosing a spot I can get to without removing the bathroom.  Then moved the bathroom back out of position so I can do a few things behind it before placing it back permanently.  Running new water lines back there, plus wires for the reading lamps in the sleeper and for the clearance lights.  I also installed a thick piece of plywood as a backer for a wall between the bathroom and sleeper.  I plan to mount a box there to keep a firearm, flashlight, cell phone, and other things and will need a strong wall to mount to. It's hard to describe why it just ends there, but the space between the bath and this wall tapers down to zero clearance at the floor.  The factory just put a flimsy paneling wall here, but I'm going to use it for that box up high over the sleeper. You can see the corner cut for wires. Ooh, I need to mount the solar wire entry at the end of that aluminum plate, too:

 

 

PS - Green tape on window frame has corresponding tape and marks on the inside of the shower to align it on reinstall. and the sharpie lines low on the wall are going to be cut out to allow the BMW M3 seats I'm installing to recline more than the Toyota seating allowed.  On the other side, I'm cutting the same wall back to allow the passenger seat to fully recline as well.  My wife is super happy about that!

 

Edited October 4, 2024 by IdahoDoug

[IdahoDoug]

Well, didn't touch the Sunrader yesterday, but got a task accomplished for it.  Some months back, I purchased an original 1982 Smitty Bilt winch bumper after MANY months looking.  Very rare as winches were hardly used in those days and the few built were beat up over the 42 years by serious users.  This one was on a farm truck in central Oregon and is completely unscathed. Only bummer was the 14 hour round trip to pick it up, which I did yesterday. I took a risk and drove my sedan, rather than our thirsty vintage LandCruiser, which it would have fit inside.  I used a bike rack, duct tape, padding and it all worked out fine. I'll probably mount it just because I want to see how it transforms the look to my intended use as an exploration vehicle for all the beautiful lands we have in Idaho/Montana/Oregon and British Columbia.  I plan to mount big lights and a winch as we are usually solo and once got trapped in our Vanagon in a very remote area of BC.  Took many hours to dig/push our way out, where a winch would have made short work of it

 

This was picking it up in the beautiful area of La Pine, Oregon at the seller's rural property. I'd just gotten done mounting it and was turning around for the drive back to N. Idaho:

 

 

I got a lot of crazy looks on my way home, and I suspect people thought it was some kind of crazy amateur aero wing as I whizzed by. 

Edited October 5, 2024 by IdahoDoug

[IdahoDoug]

Current focus is getting the bathroom remounted. Originally, they used that horrible particle board behind all the siding and around all the windows.  I've decided to upgrade to solid cedar, which I already started by framing the sleeper windows. I studied why the inner wall and outer wall are not connected, and it's because they intended a pair of screws through the outside seam trim (that strip that runs along the seam where top/bottom are connected) to grab a piece of particle board on the back of the inner wall.  However, they just barely grabbed the edge, and of course the poor quality material let go. The particle board was not properly aligned, and frankly this technique is pretty weak considering the structure must handle driving down the road with incredible vibrations, flexing, etc.  So, I'm going to use solid cedar and add more screws, which will then be covered when I put new rubber trim in that aluminum strip.  That should flatten/stabilize the fiberglas outer walls, and also make the inner walls more stable and quieter.

 

I also solved another flaw.  When they cut the holes on our Sunraders for the toilet pipe through the floor, they made the hole about an inch larger than necessary which makes sense because it allows the final fit to work with leeway for how things align.  You can't get to the area readily to put a gasket in later, however.  So a powerful rodent got into that space behind the shower and chewed a section of floor all the way down to the aluminum plating, which is pretty impressive strength!  I want this rig to be rodent proof and this is the only spot I found.  So, I made a "floating" seal comprised of 3/4" marine grade plywood with thick wire mesh on the bottom to prevent it getting chewed on.  No matter where the pipe ends up in the hole when I reassemble, it will be blocked by this.  Once assembled, I will also try to shoot some glue up from the bottom to further ensure nothing can get in that way.

 

 

I later used construction glue to fix the mesh to the wood seal.

 

The seal is tight on the pipe and will slide around with it as final assembly is complete:

[IdahoDoug]

Getting closer to reinstalling the bathroom.  A critter crawled up the toilet pipe and made a home under the shower pan.  So, I finally got around to scrubbing it with soap and water.  Then hosed it down with bleach solution to kill all germs.  Dried it and painted with Kilz, which is designed to seal off things like that.  You can also see the new solid cedar window frame, wire bundle above that, and an aluminum stiffener down low to eliminate a wobble in the fiberglas.  I'm not a huge cosmetic guy, but this begged to be straightened out since I'm going to also paint and make the outside nice.

 

The new wall paneling is built and insulated with insulation board, and has a couple vertical solid cedar ribs glued to it.  I am planning to run screws into the ribs from the exterior through the metal seam trim which will draw the outer wall and the inner paneling together somewhat, and result in flatter outside walls but still curved enough for rigidity.  Originally, they glued the insulation both to the paneling and to the wall to make a laminate.  None of my wall insulation were still glued to the exterior, so I think that's a bit of a pipe dream as the outer walls are not even nor flat enough to get a good direct contact for effective glueing. And the vibration from driving doubtless separated the insulation originally in short order.  

 

So, I'm going to use a few mechanical fasteners (screws) all the way around through the metal trim, just to keep the inner paneling stable, and they'll otherwise be "floating" and get their strength from the cedar ribs, the lamination of the new insulation boards and later from being glued and screwed to the cabinetry. The R factor will be slightly higher with a dead air space trapped back there while camping, and the movement of the walls while driving will have a pumping effect that will help evacuate accumulated humidity from the space.

 

There are those who have built an entire interior stud system to screw the inner paneling to, but that seems heavy, and the thick studs sacrifice precious interior roominess.  Any thoughts or input?

 

[Toycollector47]

Still watching and learning a lot!

 

Keep it up! 

[Ssunrader]

My guess is that when they designed these they were dreaming big, and when it came time to build them they cheaped out on materials. Sounds like yours should be way better after you’ve gone through it.

 

Urethane foam is successfully bonded to fiberglass in competitive boats for strength and rigidity, works fine unless it’s been made improperly. There are products available to redo it but am sure it’s not going to be low cost like home insulation or anything. And then there’s the toxic out gassing to deal with…

 

I used to think a lot higher of my Sunrader until I tore into it a little and began to see fundamental flaws in how it was put together. Luckily most of them can be fixed. I do want to try and seal all the exposed chip-board on the underside since there’s been a spot with dry rot discovered.

[IdahoDoug]

Well, that attachment strategy worked very well, though I switched fasteners from my planned wood screws, to a far sturdier through bolt with Zinc plated bolt and washer.  I was able to pull the inner and outer walls together as much or little as I liked and I can still adjust it until I put the new outer rubber molding in.  At the moment, the wall is much flatter - very much like the right side of the coach is as that side has the door to flatten it, plus the kitchen window and another at the rear.  So I will just do a final tweak at some point in the future.  

 

In the mean time - great news!!  The bathroom is back in place.  New insulation back there, a ton of wires, including the Renogy 200W roof solar starter system I already bought, and I also prewired for up to 600 later.  Cables are run up to the roof and just a future plug in!  New plumbing as well.  

 

 

One thing I don't understand is why Sunrader did not simply paint the walls and floors for greater resistance to moisture.  I painted the floor under it, and the new wall and the solid cedar window frame as well.  Why not have a simple coating guarantee triple the wood life?    Very excited!  The bath unit fits super tightly.

 

Edit - so a little additional info on the work of getting this back into position.  The key thing is to get the bathroom back in the exact spot it was, as the aluminum trim ring you see inside your bath is screwed through the bathroom wall, the paneling, and into the black outer window frame.  That's down to 1/16 inch accuracy to realign it or the screws will not fit.  I also did not like that the builder cut the window opening in the fiberglas outer wall/shell too large for my taste and then mounted it so the upper corners of the black window frame only had 1/16 overlap on the outside.  So, I moved my solid cedar window frame up 1/8 inch to fix that.  Which then meant I had to raise the ENTIRE bathroom 1/8 inch to go up with the window raise.  

 

Remember how I lifted the body recently?  Well, I also lengthened the mount so it now goes all the way across the floor above the black water tank.  That happened to give me the slight raise as the floor must have sagged a bit in that unsupported 18" or so under the shower (why did they do this - strange decision making, but happily easily fixed).  But I still had to slide the bathroom into place, check for alignment of the dozen screws from the inner aluminum trim, and then trim off a bit of the fiberglas opening on the top edge of the bathroom's window opening.  Then refit, confirm the screws will line up without interference, remove it again to connect the wire for the new bathroom ceiling light (red night light and normal white light), install the plumbing, then install the bathroom unit for real.  It all worked out quite well and I improved the window sealing.

 

I also had to account for the aluminum ceiling beams, which raised headroom in the center aisle, but where the walls meet dropped the ceiling 1/8 inch or so simply because the arches peak in the center where the walkway is (yay!).  This meant I had to remove the top of the bathroom, which is essentially a lid with about 30 screws around the edge, and dremel off 1/16 or so, then replace the lid.  I'll caulk it later on the inside like the factory did.  As a result of this, the fit is so tight, I had to kick the bottom into place a bit, switch to the top getting thumped into place with my hands, back to the bottom, and it's nicely wedged in there now even before the surrounding wood goes in around it.  

 

Speaking of the window seal, I am not using the normal butyl strips on the outside.  A company called Dicor has developed a butyl caulking that seems to work quite well.  I overdid it and have a lot of squeezeout to deal with when it dries, which a razor blade will handle nicely.  I overdid it on purpose, as the hole in the coach was too close for my preference and I wanted to see a lot of squeezeout around the edges to confirm I have a good watertight seal.  I am not sure if I will also use this on the other windows - depends if the tube now hardens since it's open.  I have another tube, so will continue using it if the product cooperates.  Will let you all know, as this made sealing a breeze compared to messing with the butyl strips - which I also have on hand. 

 

If you were able to look at the photo closely enough, you'd see the zinc washers midway up the white painted section - which are the through bolts I installed through the outer aluminum trim.  

 

Wanted to add this info, as this was another HUGE step similar to finishing those wraparound windows.  I"m feeling pretty happy at the moment.  Rain is coming in a couple days, and I'm going to throw a tarp over it because I need the floor to stay perfectly dry as I'm about to put a new one in.  Even the tail lights leak, so I don't want any water inside with the rest of the windows sill on 42 year old seals...

 

Now it's time to install and wire the cool oversized, heated and surround lit mirror I found as a surprise for my wife.  I'll have to cover it with butcher paper for the next months until the reveal.

Edited October 14, 2024 by IdahoDoug

[IdahoDoug]

Today at lunch, I laid 3 layers of fiberglas in the right rear corner.  There had been a leak of some kind and the wood had gotten weak.  I'll be covering it soon with 1/2" hardwood high end plywood, but felt better about making it much stronger first.  I soaked the porous wood with plain resin first, then laid down a layer of biaxial, then that random looking thicker stuff for two more layers.  Wouldn't surprise me that the resin soaked wood alone made it as strong as original.  My damage was not bad enough to warrant removal.  Sometimes it's better to strengthen what's there, rather than tear it out - especially if another layer is going down anyhow.  The new floor will rest on the original fiberglas edging, and alone is significantly stronger than the plain pine 3/8 plywood Sunrader used.  I'll be using an adhesive to laminate the new to the old with weights and screws like others have done.  For insulation, I plan to do nothing - just add the R factor of the new plywood.

 

I'm thinking about sprayfoaming the floor and already spoke to a manufacturer who told me unpainted it will stand up to the rigors of road grime.  He says the only thing that damages it is UV.  For an added protection from road grime, he said I could also spray paint it. We'll see.  I suspect by the time I add carpet the floor will not be a meaningful heat loss - just like our home floors are just bare wood on the bottom.  It's the ceiling where you get bang for the buck and I've already improved that. If we later feel the floor gets cold, I'll change course. Here's a shot of the wetted out fiberglas:

 

 

 

Edited October 15, 2024 by IdahoDoug

[IdahoDoug]

Put another layer of fiberglas on this repair for 3 layers now.  Also finished removing probably around 300 remaining staples from the original carpeting.  Crazy how many staples someone at the factory used for a simple strip of carpet.  Took me hours with pliers over a few days.  Now on to resealing rest of the windows and fresh wall paneling/insulation.

[IdahoDoug]

Did the same fiberglas reinforcement under the left rear.  It was not as bad, but I bought the resin and fiberglas cloth, so why not?

 

I'm about to cut the next wall panel out, which has the refrigerator holes to the outside for heat dissipation.  You may not know this, but your Sunrader also has a full fiberglas drip pan under the fridge to send condensation out the lower grille.  Pretty cool feature.  Well, I saved mine, as I figured I could modify it for the new, larger fridge I'm putting in.  It's a couple inches wider, so today I cut it down the middle and laid fiberglas across the gap.  Presto - custom drip pan with minimal work.  I believe I will be able to get away with not cutting the outside opening any larger.  I'll simply make the wood frame around the opening a couple inches larger to firmly mount the pan, then use epoxy or some waterproof filler to block the inch or so on each side where water would otherwise collect against the inside of the wall.  That will come later and I haven't thought of how to do it, but will.

 

Cut and positioned with wax paper underneath.  The bags are just to hold it flat while it cures:

 

 

First layer in place.  I will put more layers on the back side as well, and where it bolts to the wall, the missing piece will get built up to the same thickness with random strand stuff.  Love the smell of new fiberglas - reminds me of boating!!

 

[IdahoDoug]

Pulled the next two panels off, duplicated their shapes by simple tracing, and built them ready for install.  This is why you NEVER just strip and toss things. In my research, I ran across countless examples of Sunrader projects where the couple smilingly takes a hatchet to the entire interior down to bare fiberglas and tosses it into a pile for a victory photo. Bad idea. Those wall panels (even damaged) are templates that are crazy valuable, and turn making a duplicate piece of paneling into literally 5 minutes of tracing with a sharpie and 10 minutes cutting. Boom - done.  A total breeze compared to starting from scratch and having to figure out dimensions.  It would probably take a couple hours per panel without the old ones as templates. 

 

Here, you'll note I'm using solid cedar for window frames (vs the pressed board from the factory that self destructs with vibration or moisture, and won't hold a screw with any force applied).  The one clamped and drying is for the lower fridge opening out which the drip pan's water exits.  It is wider on the right side as the drip pan is now wider, and I put it in place separate from the wall panel, as it needs to be precisely aligned at the bottom edge so water will flow out.  The rest of the window frames I've been attaching to the new paneling piece, as that allows me to glue the new insulation to the back of the panel, butting right up against the frames.  I had to measure precisely for this panel so the "square hole in the insulation" lines up closely with the frame now glued to the coach wall.

 

 

I"ve also begun installing the super powerful outside perimeter lighting system (my "zombie lights") as these go behind the paneling as well. They're just hanging on the outside as I didn't like the screws they provided and am sourcing some stainless screws today.

 

 

 

[IdahoDoug]

Here's a sneak peek at the rear to see the tail lamps I'm installing held roughly in position with green tape.  These are from a school bus manufacturer.  Pretty happy that they are the perfect height for the Sunrader.  Unfortunately, they'll still need some work as the Sunrader's lower panel is sloped and points the tail lamps toward the road about 5 degrees.  I'll have to find a way to make them horizontal as I'm picky about exterior illumination and that 5 degrees will make them appear dimmer from a ways back.

 

You'll also see the 5 new red LED clearance lamps, and up high near them are two super bright zombie lamps that will form part of the perimeter illumination system.  I also mounted a 3rd rear brake lamp just above the window - looks like it belongs there and took me a while to find such a large one that fits to the vehicle's scale.  Not sure what I'm doing with the various hose and cable portals on the lower panel, but I'll get to that later.  The huge rear window is in the shop for cleaning and getting it ready for reseal and reinstall in a few days.

 

[IdahoDoug]

So, I thought I'd post some detail today for others who might consider this just to get you ready for the madness.  First, is a diagram on the inside of the new rear wall panel reminding me to add a chunk of wood I can use later to hold screws well when I'm installing a window treatment.  Above it you can also see where I reinforced the rear panel a bit too far and in a trial fit noted I had not left room for wires.  These are the details that make one crazy and the price for forgetting them is later when you can't run wires, or you are left installing a blind into that thin paneling like the factory did. In addition, the diagram shows the cedar window frame so that when I glue insulation to the back of this panel, I will not accidentally put it where the window frame needs to go.

 

Where's the window frame, you ask?  Well, in a perfect world where the paneling and window cut out match where the window goes, you'd simply glue it onto the panel, tip it up against the wall and attach it.  However, the nimrods at the factory cut the window opening too large, so there is enormous variation in where the window's metal flange will mate with the fiberglas on the outside.  Get lazy and just set the window in the too-large opening and whack in the screws?  Why then the top of the flange will barely overlap the opening by a fraction of an inch, and your seal is tenuous at best. That's what the factory did and there was barely a hair's breadth of overlap on the top where it is most vulnerable to leaks, and of course where it WAS in fact leaking.  What I'm doing is installing the new cedar frames alone on the opening, so I can adjust them up and down tenths of inches and get the exact location that provides uniform metal flange placement over the hole.  This then makes it challenging later when I lean the paneling up against the inner wall and hope it lines up well with the cedar frame.  If not, boo hoo, but I got the window properly sealed and that's the most important thing for me.  Starting to see how this can drive you batty?  It's not like working on a house where you can do it piece by piece and see the fit.  So, here's the window frame about to go in - all glued up, clamps at the ready. The top piece is wider to provide something to screw a window blind into, hang drapes from, etc.  The factory simply screwed them into 1/8" paneling. And at top center you'll see where this wider piece interfered with my new 3rd brake light. Back into the shop to chop out a notch for that.  It's 1000 little details:

 

This shot is for my later reference as I will need to know where the reinforcements are to mount reading lights, shelves, etc:

 

 

Edited October 29, 2024 by IdahoDoug

[IdahoDoug]

Wow, this is amazingly slow going.  The rear panel by the dinette (in my layout) has a ton of wires and I added even more with extra lighting.  It's also "trapped" (overlapped by) by the two rear side panels, and it has to go back in first.  So I had to build all 3 new panels before putting the huge rear panel in.  Just walked in from doing that and very excited.  Now the right and left rear panels will go in. 

 

Each panel has foil-lined insulation behind it, wires, blocks of wood for "hard points" to screw various things I envision installing, usually a window frame.  

 

I totally underestimated the time and complexity of building these new wall panels. Thought I'd be done 2 weeks ago.  Temps are dropping close to the minimums for glue to cure, a rainy pattern is on the way, and I'm hoping to get all but the kitchen window back in by Saturday, then just keep a huge tarp over it and hunker down till it quits.  I am SOOO looking forward to getting all the windows back in and having it sealed up and insulated so I can put the new floor down. Wow.

Edited November 8, 2024 by IdahoDoug

[IdahoDoug]

Working my way around with new interior panels.  Put rear panel in and left rear, so now doing the remaining 3 panels on the right side:

 

 

Right rear panel and kitchen window frame curing in the hallway.  Yes, my wife loves me!!

 

 

And exasperatingly, the kitchen window straddles two panels, making it more difficult.  It's drying in the garage as well, and will take longer, but OK as they're installed later.  None of these have insulation panels, yet.

[IdahoDoug]

Final 3 interior wall panels are built.  I have a minor glitch with two items trying to violate a law of physics by occupying the same space at the same time when I trial fit them.  Quick zip with a hand saw to trim.  This evening's plan was to have my wife as a helper to hang the last three and install the windows, but she got delayed, so it will be done on a rainy Sunday. Argh.  As a consolation prize, I finished wiring and installing the new LED ceiling puck lights.

 

The wiring's been hidden behind the new ceiling mahogany panels for 9 months or so.  When I drilled through my marks with a hole saw, I had my fingers crossed all would work out. An eighth inch error meant the saw would snag the wire and likely yank it out and wind it around the drill - game over.  Happily all 7 were on the mark.  So there are 3 lights across over the (coming) dinette, and 4 down the hall. These two groups will have their own switch and dimmers, as I figured this to be the best division. I had to test them before installing the wall panels, so here they are - all lit up. The color is exactly what I wanted - warm, indistinguishable from the incandescent lighting I prefer.  Can't abide by those bluish white LEDs you see in every new RV.

 

[Ctgriffi]

Enjoying seeing this ambitious build come together! And totally agree about the performance of many LED bulbs or fixtures: the color temp is often awful, furthermore they can be SO DANG BRIGHT in a tiny RV (and yet they market that aspect like it’s a big plus!). 
 

What kind of progress do you anticipate in the winter months up north?

[IdahoDoug]

Thanks - yes for all the emphasis on bright cold LED lighting in luxury RVs, the people who build them seem to have forgotten one of the key ambiance features of any space is in fact lighting.  Think of all the pricey indoor environments we experience - fancy restaurants, a tony spa, a multimillion dollar home.  None of them are lit like a stadium.  In fact, they are often lit subtly, not in garish fashion, to create a feeling of intimacy and oneness with the space.  I'm super happy with these and could not have guessed what they'd do for lighting until all 7 were up, wired, and lit.  

 

As for progress, tonight I got the kitchen window back in, and the two new panels that it spans.  This leaves only the right rear window and its panel to install, which is completely built and the install will take 30 minutes.  Would have done it tonight but for an unexpected friend in town, so we invited him for dinner.  In fact, I pressed him into service to help with the two new panel install this evening!

 

Once that last window is in, the space will be waterproof again and I'll lay down the new floor.  I have a plan for that, and the wood is in my shop already.  Once that's done, it will essentially be a heatable insulated weatherproof workspace and I will be after it all winter with a plan to finish and take it camping by Memorial Day.  I have been working under a tarp laid over the entire vehicle for about 4 weeks, so it will be nice to have sunshine streaming in the windows!  

 

How about you - any winter maintenance to square away, or do you use yours year round?

[Ctgriffi]

Getting to that stage of "heatable insulated weatherproof workspace" will be a heckuva milestone! Bet your pace will pick up quite a bit (along with the electric bill, yikes, sorry!).

 

My winter routine for the Warrior is pretty typical, I think: give it a good cleaning, drain the fresh water tank and water heater, blow out the water lines with (40psi) compressed air, pour some antifreeze in various drains, and then park under the canopy I've constructed—all right before the first serious frost, and there she stays until April/May.

This year will be very different: I have Xmas thru New Year's off, so we are going to attempt to make it out to Florida and back, to see family + friends. It'll be about 1200 miles each way, so that means close to 3 days of drive-time on each end to maintain happiness/sanity (I'd like it to be a vacation rather than a feeble attempt at OTR Trucking). I'm not exactly sure what temps will be, passing through AR, MS, AL, and GA, so we'll just have to play it by ear with the water system and travel conditions, etc in terms of potential freezing. Longest trip we've attempted in this rig during 9 years of ownership.

[IdahoDoug]

Wow, should be a nice run across the Gulf states.  I'm currently looking at various pipe heating solutions as well as tanks.  I'd think you would be good to a few degrees below freezing while underway, what with interior heat (crack open drawers and cabinets to let heated air get to the plumbing), plus chassis heat flowing under the tanks.  I wouldn't be afraid to pour a gallon of RV antifreeze into the grey and black tanks, and, at least on the Sunrader, the fresh water tank is above the floor in the heated interior. What would you do if temps suddenly dipped for the trip home?  Could you just empty the grey/black tanks and proceed?

 

Also, on our electric bills, they'll go down!  I have been using heat lamps and an electric heater to help cure the glues and sealants of a leaky box missing windows and vent covers. Very soon it will be a sealed box where the wind cannot simply blow all the heated air out in one gust.

Edited November 20, 2024 by IdahoDoug