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Started my new project recently, a 1982 Sunrader that I am going to build into a gooseneck camper that I can tow behind my 1936 Ford and my other project, a 1938 Diamond T pickup. Figured I would try to post progress on here as I go. I checked out a lot of things on this website for inspiration and some practical knowledge before I started. Hopefully I can figure out the picture thing and post some as I go along. Phase 1: separating from the chassis without having to cut all the steel floor bracing and framework.  Starting off with my (fully gutted) shell and chassis, I jacked up the entire chassis and camper and blocked them it about 12 inches or so off the ground. I built four columns out of wood with feet facing front and back and open space between the feet at the bottom. I built a rafter to go across thru the large window openings side to side and match up to the corners of the interior ceiling and across the roof to support the middle with a column on either side on the outside. Then I put a 2x8 across under the overhang just in front of the cab glass and supported it with the other two columns. At the rear I built up cribbing and supported the two rear corners where they tuck under. After I removed about a zillion screws from the cab and cut all that sealer between I put scissors jacks in the middle opening on my four columns. moving side to side I was able to slowly jack the columns up putting more support under them and relieving the weight of the camper from the chassis. Every 1 1/2 inches up I could slip another board under the feet of my columns for stability. As I jacked up the middle and the front, the opening between the cab and the overhang grew, and I placed more weight on the cribbing at the rear to support the back which made the rear more stable. When I could tell that I was supporting the camper enough, I used my circular saw and cut through the floor outside where the bracing underneath was bolted to the frame. It took a while, but I could tell that the floor in the middle was sagging down with the chassis weight and the floor around the perimeter was staying higher supported by the columns,etc. I realize this is a long post, but I wanted to describe this part in detail in case someone else used my method. Go slow and easy and the scissors jacks made it very easy to control the height and to keep the same pressure everywhere. I will try to post some pics now in my next entry since this is so long.

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Thanks MaineJed. Hopefully it will be worth the effort. So after I had the floor cut all the way around and I was sure that nothing was "hanging on", I took the back duals off of the chassis and slowly lowered the rear end down onto a 4-wheel tire dolly rolling on some plywood. I took the blocks out from the front and let it down on the front tires and then slowly pulled the chassis out from under the shell. Put the rear singles on and we were free. Now I can finally get rid of the chassis and get to work on the shell. I used a sawsall and an air disc cutter to trim the rest of the floor out up close to the wall. I still have to sand off the remaining ridge from where the old floor was glassed in. The plan is to back the trailer into place under the shell with the floor already on it, jack it up into the desired height and then glass around the exterior. I am setting the floor height even with the door well which will give me an additional 5 inches of headroom thank goodness,( I'm 6ft).

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don't get rid of the dually wheels-- they're worth big$

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Can't see if they are the good ones, 6 lug. If they are axle and wheels can be worth up to a grand. Also gas tanks are no longer available for the older trucks. Plenty of toyota owners are looking for them. Let your project pay it forward to your other costs

Linda S 

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Thanks extech and linda s. It is the good rear end.  I made what I think was a good deal with the previous owner as long as he got the rear end back. He is a younger person, but he and a friend are really into Toyota trucks, so he gets the chassis back. I don't have to scrap it, and I keep the title for the Sunrader and Indiana BMV will repurpose it as a Sunrader camping trailer.  I was going to post some more pics, but they turn out upside down. I'll try to figure that out.

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Phase 2 is to get the trailer lined out to go under the shell. Any suggestions as to the best thing to use for flooring? Thinking marine plywood? How thick.? Trailer frame will be exactly long enough and is within an inch down both sides and I have to pinch the last 14 inches at the rear by 1/2 inch on both sides so plenty of support. Only want to do this one time. All ideas appreciated.

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Not good with pics. Google "Mobile Traveler 5th wheel" and "Scamp 5th wheel"

 

 

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Thanks very much WME. Terrific site for what I plan to do. Looking at some of these tells me I'm on the right track. All I have to do now is make it happen.

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OK, so after perusing the website for a bit, I've come to the conclusion that my build ie (Bob the Builder's Build) should be in the "IMPROVEMENT and DO IT YOURSELF PROJECTS" section so I will self-moderate any further posts on my progress to that arena. I'm thinking questions and such are all right in the General section to garner the information, but actual pics and history on the build should stick with the build under that topic? Perhaps an experienced member can verify this for me. I'm entirely new to this type of activity and don't want to confuse the issue. Thanks

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Got the end of Phase 1 done today, finally. Old Sunrader chassis back so rear end could be scavenged by previous owner as promised. Now on to Phase 2 with a clear mind.

Edited by Bob the Builder
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Here are a few pics of the shell standing there waiting for me to get busy. First thing will be to trim the old floor attaching fiberglass smooth to the wall. Not looking forward to this.

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BTB,

Absolutely admire your optimism and passion for a truely unique project. (nice truck too!)

On the floor, been there, done that. I replaced the whole thing and took the opportunity to add reinforcement underneath to the frame, with heavier rectangular steel tubing cross-bracing.

I used a "Harvard Freight" $19 angle grinder with #40 grit sanding disks to make very quick work out of trimming the residual fiberglass back to the wall. It's an ugly but quick task, but you can save your washing machine (and marriage?) and not itch for days by buying a throw-away Tivek hazmat suit for $8-$10 online or at a safety supply place. This also works really well for "scuffing" the walls for prepping for future fiberglass attachment work. Just step in, zip it up, pull over the hood and do the deed, then throw it away or blow it off and save in a plastic bag for the next fiberglass session. I did use 5/8" marine grade for the floor and I never looked back. I lapped the seams with a common router and glued and screwed them. Pricey, but excellent results and very stable floor. I used a laser-level to map the perimeter of the floor and I'm sure there's other ways, but that worked well. I learned a lot about how I wanted my fiberglass coving to turn out by looking at the inferior factory flock-gun job that had separated from vibration  over time. I also got the opportunity to square-up the wheel wells which made building cabinets on top of them so much easier later on. Keep up the great work and keep us posted!

BR,

TG

A New Floor.JPG

B New Step-well.JPG

C Heavy Duty Coving.JPG

Edited by ToyoGuy
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ToyoGuy, I thank you for a most excellent reply. That's the kind of information I'm looking for on this build. Had planned on the suit, respirator, etc. as I've had the experience with fiberglass a long time ago. Did you treat the bottom side of the marine plywood with anything or just screw it down to the framework? Also, from what I'm reading online nowadays I see they have many different kinds of fiberglass and resin. What did you use on yours? I'm used to doing mat and cloth for strength, resin, hardener according to curing temp and time to work and that's about my experience. I suppose when I go to fill some of the many holes in the walls, I'll have to get into it with more finesse like with kitty hair, gelcoat and such on the outside but all I'm worried about now is the floor to wall joint. I plan on raising the whole trailer frame up into position and starting with the rearmost piece of flooring going crossways. Any help from anybody is appreciated.

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Hey BTB,

Yes my flooring was painted underneath but it is mounted on a 1 1/4" fiberglass tube frame (read joists here). There are 2 layers of insulation tucked into the spaces with reflectix below and rigid foam above that. The bottom road barrier under the 'glass rod joists is FRP, the toughest stuff I could find and test. All of this is bolted through / mounted to the coach frame at 12 points instead of the 4 stock points that failed miserably where the bolt heads/ washers just tore through the original 3/8" ply floor.  All perimeters underneath the coach are coved and sealed so it's water tight. all around. Nary a mouse void...  It is true that I lost about 1/2" of headspace, but I'm OK with the tradeoff. I used polyester resin and for strength, I alternated random and oriented strand cloths with some super thick cloth in high-stress areas. (Last pic in last post)  I became somewhat of an expert at the outside temp / amount of promotor / layup timing thing : )

Fresh resin became important. After one particularly bad experience w/ Home Dept products, I bought at Tap Plastics. (fresher product)

Exciting stuff!

Good luck.

BR, TG

E Floor Frame Installed.JPG

F Floor Before Finishing.jpg

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I THINK that Sunrader was made with Poly resin. Epoxy will bond to Poly, BUT poly will not bond to epoxy. Of course poly bonds to poly. If you going with epoxy, West Systems 105 is some of the best

Fun and games info...https://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f56/sunrader-70873.html

Check out the side windows that wrap around over the roof

Edited by WME
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Thank God I didn't have those wrap over windows WME. Couldn't imagine keeping them sealed. TG, I am considering FRP panels for my flooring.  Now hear me out before you laugh me off the page. My background is practically everything automotive and particularly big trucks (as in tractor trailers). So when I say FRP, I'm not talking any of that thin plastic type stuff all the box stores are gluing on the wall. I'm talking fiberglass reinforced plywood, meaning like the semi trailer door panels are made with. And still a lot of the semi trailers on the road yet have complete walls of the stuff. 3/4" and also available in 1/2" thick. Fairly expensive but I'm thinking with my connections with trucking, I can probably score what I would need out of some removed sections of wrecked wall. The trailer frame I will be using (modified by me of course), is an old camper frame so there won't be a two foot square  section of flooring in it without support, and the perimeter will all be supported by a steel tube within an inch alongside everywhere. I'm thinking I can probably get by with the 1/2" even, (less weight). That would put aluminum back on the bottom like the original, and the white frp facing up would be a nice interior surface to start with. I'm sure the strength would definitely not be a problem. Scuff the frp, push the wall out, run the resin over the edge a plenty, let the wall retract back in against the floor, then put the cloth and mat down, hopefully that will seal and create a good bond in both the wood end and the frp. I know, it sounds simple. We will see. I tend to think things to death and overbuild a bit. Let me know what you think.

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With that much support, 1/2" thick sounds like a winner to me. I'd check bonding to your flooring material with an experiment first with scrap just to be sure.

Thinking is good,.... before the resin starts setting up.

TG

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Ya know the original floor was a good design, but the supporting frame was not. With your frame design you should reevaluate an original floor. I mean think of how strong a surf board is.

 

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WME, when I cut the floor to remove the center section with the chassis, I didn't find any styrofoam between the plywood layers like it shows in the Sunrader ad. What I found was a thin sheet of aluminum on the bottom to start, then a thin layer of plywood, then either what looked to be pink fiberglass insulation or what looked like furring strip material, and then the final layer of the plywood top. I got the impression that the whole floor was made up of a sandwich of latticework squares of furring strips with pink insulation inside the squares and sandwiched between the two thicknesses of plywood with aluminum on the bottom. My Sunrader is a 1982, was the floor constructed differently back then? As in the previous pics, the top layer all the way around the perimeter had the fiberglass clearly attached to the wall then slightly drooped into the crevice at the edge and out onto the floor so I'm thinking it was original. I think that I've gotten rid of all the pieces of the actual flooring, but I'm going to check again. It sounds like you are leaning toward reconstructing the floor like in the ad, (laminating all of those layers of material together in sheets and using them) as opposed to using the trailer style laminate that is already in a sheet? Just checking?

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Just saying something to think about while your still in the design stage.

Nobody ever complained that their RV was too light. Just thinking of the weight difference between 80 SQ ft of your FRP and 80 SQ ft of SIP flooring. Especially with a proper steel frame under the floor.  

Gardner Pacific was famous for design changes based on cost. 

Here is something else to gaze upon...https://www.rvwest.com/article/vintage_rv/vintage_rv_1981_toyota_sunrader_fifth_wheel_combo

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Saw that picture a while back. There is another one somewhere of just what appears to be the same dually in a driveway without the camper. I hope to keep my gooseneck about that low. I think the hitch arrangement won't be much over 30-36 inches off of the ground. The top of the truck frame is at 24" right now. I'm thinking I will build a storage rack from the top of the gooseneck boom on up to support the forward sleeper of the camper body. The hitch post will be adjustable up & down for the difference in height of my two tow vehicles. Back to the floor, what was used to laminate the  different layers of the SIP flooring? Were there any ribs or internal wood framework to keep the two layers of plywood connected? Surely just the styrofoam won't hold it together? Actually I wouldn't mind having the insulation of the dead air space between the floor.

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I absolutely agree with WME on weight. One of the most interesting challenges for my build was figuring out where I wanted to allow for more weight and strength in materials to improve original designs and where I could lighten up other areas to make up for more robust portions. (no MDF or particle board in cabinets and shelving)

Engineering is fun.

Just another note on variation on different SunRaders.... Mine was entireley missing the 1/8" lower plywood / luan sheet between the road-barrier aluminum sheet and the pine 1" x 2" frame. See below a portion I sawed-out and saved for posteriority.

TG

Old Floor.JPG

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Use slow cure laminating epoxy. You have to seal the wood from moisture. The failure mode is wood fails, but the glue doesn't.

Years ago I helped make something like a SIP panel. We used very heavy plastic sheeting, some kids clay and a home vacuum cleaner.

Lay out the plastic sheet, it needs to be 2x the size of the thing, take the clay and make a rope out of it. Put the rope all away around 3 sides of the plastic.

Fold it over and seal it to the clay. Stick the vacuum cleaner nozzle in a corner and seal with more clay. Even at only 2" of vacuum there would be almost 10,000 pounds of pressure on a 4x8 sheet SIP. Using an air conditioner vacuum pump we crushed the foam untill we figured out how little vacuum your really need

Rip a 2x4 and use it for edging.

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Looking for posible alternatives to original Sunrader flooring. Exploring HPL panels for floor on bottom 10mm thick (.394) and laminate3/8 plywood on top of that, seal the plywood then linoleum for the final surface. Can possibly get cut off sheets of HPL 51x60 for $20. Using the HPL for road debris barrier and plywood for additional strength although the HPL will hold 220+ lbs over 3ft open span. Trying to save time and expense without sacrificing strength. Welcome opinions, etc.

Edited by Bob the Builder
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The only HPL I know is Formica, so I assume that you are talking about something else.

Take a look at Nida-Core

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Here's the plan for the floor so far. I can get the HPL (exterior rated, uv resistant, water resistant, white surface) in 51" x 76" panels for $20 (not the main point but good for the build cost). The wider size allows me to use only three and cover the length I need (149") which means only 2 seams. Glass these to the outside wall. Put down either 3/4 or 1 inch styrofoam closed cell insulation, put down 3/8 plywood and glass to the wall. Fasten this all down to my frame using elevator blots so the heads are virtually flat with the plywood and cover entire interior surface to the walls with linoleum. Seal the linoleum against the walls also and then build everything on top of that. It would be sealed from the bottom, (road debris, water, etc) and sealed from the top in case of any interior leaks, spills, etc. It would be double glassed to the walls and insulated somewhat in between. Ready for any and all comments now, it's all knowledge and I'll take all I can get before I do this. Thanks

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WME, excellent. I was hoping to hear from you. Really interested in your opinion on this. The stuff is Fundermax high pressure laminate phenolic panels, exterior grade. Used a lot for facade and such on buildings and counter tops, separator panel in hospitals, offices, etc. Thanks

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Looks like good stuff. Just make sure about the laminating glue.

More stuff Birch cabnet grade plywood. For the same thickness it has more plus. Some times called underlayment for wood floors.

I used a single sheet of vinyl flooring on mine along with cove base. I called it my swimming pool floor, easy cleaning and totally waterproof.

I had to use rug runners due to cold floors. If you use foam as part of the floor, your floor should be warmer.

 

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OK, time to post the start of Phase 2: the trailer mods and how they will (hopefully) mesh with the Sunrader shell. First, we've been having some rather blustery weather and I was worried about movement of the shell up on those stilts. So I parked my 455 John Deere inside (just barely fits between the wheel wells of the Sunrader ), and tied the shell down. I know, it looks stupid, but I sleep good! I'll post a picture of the trailer frame I'm starting with but please reserve judgement until I get further along with it, it only cost me 200 bucks. I pinched the last 14 inches of the front, which will become the rear so that it fits the slope of the rear of the shell 5 inches below the original floor line which will be my new floor. That will make my floor level when I walk in the door and gives me more than enough headroom to miss the ceiling even with some insulation in the floor. The main rails of the trailer are C-channel that start at 2 inches front and back and graduate to 6 for the middle five feet where there is a 2000# torsion axle mounted. I am removing the torsion axle and instead will be using a new 3500# 4 inch drop axle I've had hanging around for probably 25 years. Already got 30 inch long 5 leaf springs (spread the mounts a bit further apart), and 5 on 4 1/2 bolt pattern spindles. This gives me a lot of options on wheel selection, including back spacing, width and height. I will be reinforcing the center five feet on the outside of the C-channel both sides with 2x2 rectangular 1/8 wall steel. Spring hangers welded to the 2x2 to center the axle in the wheel wells of the Sunrader which is 72" from the rear wall. I will slip 1 3/4" rectangular tubing into the center tubes and on to the front since I need to stretch my trailer to 148", (it was a little short). The center pieces are a little overkill so the 1 3/4 pieces are thinner walled. Trying to save a little weight here and there. I will put the same 1 3/4 tubing out to the back to reinforce since my grey and black water tanks will be in the middle at the very back, 14 gallons each. I'm sure this is a long enough post for now, I'll ad some pics and post again later.

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Not time yet, but some information that you will soon. "How to build light weight cabinets". He has many other ideas. Some rambling, but good ideas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5h8FdX0l6x8

 

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