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My ears are burning, been planning early this year to do a head gasket change and put it off. Warming up the rig today I noticed some antifreeze leaking underneath. The leak is coming from between the head and exhaust manifold. When it cools I'll pull the exhaust shield to get a better look.

 

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Sure glad this didn't happen on the road.

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So I pulled the exhaust shield and the leak is coming from the head near the exhaust manifold. I know the 22r folks say it a couple hour job to replace the head gasket but how about on the 22re? Has anyone followed the FSM and kept the air intake and exhaust manifolds in tact when removing the head? I'd like to hear about any experiences that folks had in doing so. 

 

I watched a YouTube video of it being done on a 22re and it looked daunting, of course the guy dismantled the intake and exhaust before pulling the head. My head was spinning... ;-)

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Hi Gary

 

I replaced the head on my 88 Toyhome.

Bought the complete kit for 220 bucks included everything needed (new head, head bolts, gasket, gasket cement ect).

 

I just checked ebay and they are still plenty of head kits in that price range.  Brand new.

With a new head you can leave any issues the old had behind.

 

Having the new head to look at is helpfull when you are dismantling your engine.

 

If you can read the Haynes manual and have some tools or a hundred bucks to by some then you can replace the head gasket.

Torque wrenches can be rented from some autopart stores.

 

2 years after replacing the head I lost a head gasket due to a worn out thermostat.  These rigs give the thermostat a workout and when you start getting temp swings that is the first thing to check.

 

I replaced the head gasket in my buddys driveway.  I got the parts from Autozone in Salem Mass.  The parts guy was a Toyota Guru and got me everything needed using the vin number over the phone.

I replaced the bolts at that time just to be safe.  I think it was around 125.00 for all the parts at that time (2017).

 

The intake has a whole lot of 11mm bolts.  A 10mm and 11mm 6point wrench is a must for breaking things free 12 points will round some of them over.  I got them from a snap on dealer it saw at a garage.

 

I replaced the exhaust gasket with a thick graphite reusable one from a rock crawler website

 

Good luck

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Gary if you want to fix my leaky roof, I will happily do a head gasket for you!  

 

Good advice from REALLYRURAL but I would change one detail.  Ideally, don't use wrenches to break stuck bolts free.  And defiantly don't waste money on 6pt Snap On wrenches lol.  Yes, use 6pt.  But sockets and the right ratchet and extensions (where needed) will serve you better.  With that said while you can usually get away with some cheaper sockets, cheap ratchets and extensions aren't a lot of fun to use and may not get you there.  Not sure how tight the working area is on the intake side to get them all out, but I just did the exhaust manifold on mine with a 1/4 Snap On socket/ratchet set.

 

As far as the wrenches go, I wouldn't hesitate to break stuck bolts free with my 12pt Snap On wrenches.  But I know by feel when I can get away with that, and when I am going to get in trouble.  Quality makes a HUGE difference here though.  Like using cheap 1/4" drive tools to do this is a BAD idea.  But a 1/4" Snap On ratchet with a 14" handle will break free a whole lot of things that it probably shouldn't be used for...  

 

Anyways as RR is saying, it isn't that bad of a job to do.  I wouldn't hesitate to change it in my driveway, or on the road in an AutoZone/Walmart parking lot. But know your abilities and watch a few videos if you are a little uncertain.  Heck, I would still watch a few myself if I had to do it just to get a quick overview.  A new head can be gotten on ebay for pretty reasonable prices too.  

 

I am seriously considering doing mine preemptively as a precaution.  If not and laziness kicks in, I will probably give some thought to having the kit on hand just in case.  

 

Haynes is okay, but the Toyota FSM is posted up on here for free and a little better info wise.  I would probably use both though as I prefer a paper manual when I am under a hood.  Printing out the needed parts on the FSM though is almost as nice.  

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On 9/11/2022 at 8:48 PM, Gary_M said:

So I pulled the exhaust shield and the leak is coming from the head near the exhaust manifold. I know the 22r folks say it a couple hour job to replace the head gasket but how about on the 22re? Has anyone followed the FSM and kept the air intake and exhaust manifolds in tact when removing the head? I'd like to hear about any experiences that folks had in doing so. 

 

I watched a YouTube video of it being done on a 22re and it looked daunting, of course the guy dismantled the intake and exhaust before pulling the head. My head was spinning... 😉

I changed the head gasket on my 20R in my driveway. The only difference between the 22R and 22RE is the RE is fuel injected.

The FSM calls for leaving the intake and exhaust manifolds attached to the head. I agree…. makes the job much easier. You should have two engine hooks (front&rear) attached to the head. Makes removal very easy.

You will need a portable engine lift, some heavy duty chain and a helper.

1. Remove the hood 2. Drain all fluids from the engine 3. Disconnect and label all cables, wires and hoses. 4. Unhook the exhaust pipe from the manifold. The rest is just to follow the manual regarding head bolts, cam sprocket etc. Raise the head straight up and out. Take your time. I did my head gasket in about 2 hours but my engine is pretty basic without a lot of extras.

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Thanks for all the advice you all have provided! I'm not sure what to expect when the head is off but I'm expecting it won't be pretty. This engine has had a rough life, previous owner overheated it going up Snoqualmie pass loaded with 6 people onboard and the water pump blew. Toyota dealership then replaced the pump but nicked the head gasket in the process of putting it in. I've always had a small oil leak from the timing cover though the switch to 10-40 slowed it significantly.

 

Fred when lowering the head back onto the block did you have any dowels in place to help guide the head back on or was using your eye good enough? The engine hoist is a great idea and I'll ask around or purchase one outright if I have to.

 

Gary

Edited by Gary_M
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1. Make sure the engine is at TDC and the brite link aligned with the sprocket mark.

2. Don't for get the hidden bolt in the timing chain area.

3. 2 people

4. leave the intake and exhaust on.

When I did my head swap I left the front cover and timing chain on. I used a Bungee cord to hold the chain up, lifted up the front of the head and pushed a welding rod through the chain links so I could remove the bungee cord and head. I used a 1/2" drive breaker bar wedged on the frame and bumped the starter to remove the crankshaft pulley bolt.

 

P.S. Timing chain, tensioner, guides???

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1 hour ago, Gary_M said:

Thanks for all the advice you all have provided! I'm not sure what to expect when the head is off but I'm expecting it won't be pretty. This engine has had a rough life, previous owner overheated it going up Snoqualmie pass loaded with 6 people onboard and the water pump blew. Toyota dealership then replaced the pump but nicked the head gasket in the process of putting it in. I've always had a small oil leak from the timing cover though the switch to 10-40 slowed it significantly.

 

Fred when lowering the head back onto the block did you have any dowels in place to help guide the head back on or was using your eye good enough? The engine hoist is a great idea and I'll ask around or purchase one outright if I have to.

 

Gary

My block had two raised pins to center the head. You can always use a couple of pieces of wooden dowel fed down from the top through the head bolt holes as you lower it down.

The engine lift is perfect for this job. I bought the 1 1/2 ton lift from harbor freight. It fit perfectly under the front  end of the cab. You might be able to find one used on CL or maybe a rental yard. It’s very important to clean out the head bolt holes in the block before reattaching the head. I used compressed air but something like a shop vac and a rag would work in a pinch. It’s important because any liquid left at the bottom will affect your torque readings. It can also split your block from hydraulic fracturing.

Even if you use a new head, I’d still remove the old as a single unit. Much easier to play with frozen nuts and bolts on the workbench. 🙂

Only other thing I did was replace any attachment bolts for the manifolds with studs and nuts. Less chance of stripping the aluminum head from over torque.

Edited by fred heath
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Thanks Fred! I have a small air compressor so we'll be sure to get those head holes cleaned. This will all be done in the driveway so my workbench will be a couple of sawhorses. 😉

 

WME the chain guides looked pretty good last time I adjusted the valves. Honestly I'd like to stay away from doing the timing chain unless I have to, 100,000 miles on the engine today, I'll probably put no more than 20,000 on it in the next 10 years so I'm hoping the tensioner guides get me that far..

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if you pay close attention to the chain when you remove the cam sprocket, how much it pulls the chain is an indicator of chain and tensioner wear.  if it pulls a lot=less wear. if you don't see a noticable pull on the chain, you likely have a bunch of wear

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if the chain is stretched, the tensioner will be extended to take up the slack. when you remove the sprocket there isn't much left for the tensioner to take up.  no wear, tensioner moves out alot when sprocket comes off

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How many miles do you have on the engine? if it's approaching 100K it will need a chain, tensioner and guides. That's about the life span on an RE if left alone the chain will eventually beat a hole in the case and fill the sump with coolant. A dead give away is rattling noise at idle. The head should be planed if the head gasket is leaking. Don't mean to scare you but in the day I have done 60 or more of the dang things. The 22r's would go until the wheels fell off because they had double roller chains.

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Yes it's at 100,000. I just don't have the mental capacity in doing both. I feel that I if take on the timing chain that I'll make a stupid mistake not getting everything back in TDC or worse yet not finishing it at all. You are scaring me, I don't want to deal with copper head shims or getting a new head, that scares me even more how to get the new valves in sync. 2 mechanic estimates I got wanted $6,000-$8,000 to do both. No one wants to work on these vehicles anymore and they just throw the price out there hoping you won't take it.

 

I'm going to think this one over more, in the end I just might call the junkyard and let it go. 

 

 

Edited by Gary_M
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All those who have changed the head gasket in your driveway over the weekend, signal thumbs up👍

Gary what video did you watch?

Before you junkyard it try a dose of sealer... BlueDevil Head Gasket sealer has better than most results. This is a notch above snake oil, but it's worth a try instead of junking a good Toy.

Edited by WME
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This guy, he did it in under 2 hours, my head was spinning like what???

 

 

 

Actually I got excited to see this one on Pirate 4x4.

https://www.pirate4x4.com/threads/basic-tech-of-the-week-22re-head-gasket-replacement.1572577/

 

You're right though I bought some K19 but it's sitting in the box, I really want to give it a go but I'm feeling the odds are against me on this one.

 

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Don’t get discouraged!!!!

 

It’s easy to get overwhelmed especially when getting advice from different sources. The guy in the video you posted is a professional mechanic. The Snap On box in the background is proof enough. I’m sure your timing chain is fine. 100K is low mileage for these engines.

 

Try the fix in a can first. I stay away from them because the ones you add to the radiator can also plug up things like heater cores and thermostats.

 

You tackled your valve adjustment so you’re good with basic mechanical skills. Only you can decide what’s best for you. It’s way to valuable to junk.

 

Take your time. So maybe it takes the whole weekend or longer to change it out. I always look at it as money saved and skills learned.

If you feel it’s going to be above your mechanical abilities, go a different route.

 

 

 

Edited by fred heath
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On 9/15/2022 at 8:45 PM, Gary_M said:

... 2 mechanic estimates I got wanted $6,000-$8,000 to do both. No one wants to work on these vehicles anymore and they just throw the price out there hoping you won't take it.

 

I'm going to think this one over more, in the end I just might call the junkyard and let it go. 

 

 

 

$6000-8000 are STUPID HIGH prices that are more likely for a whole engine.  These days many shops won't do a head gasket, it is a whole engine job.  I don't have my work laptop here or I would look....  Wait, I got logged in on another computer!  Okay here are the Alldata labor times:

 

8.8 hrs Timing chain 2wd with Fuel Inj. or Turbo (non is 8.5, most shops will select the 8.8 lolith Fuel Injection

6.8 hrs Head Gasket 2wd with Fuel Inj. Includes: Remove Carbon And Make All Necessary Adjustments

 

Add 0.5 for AC, and 0.8 for PS

 

That would be 16.9 hrs total.  There is likely some stacking going on here.  Stacking is when two jobs overlap and they just add the times together and don't discount one of the jobs.  Okay and there is, the procedure for the timing chain begins with "1) Remove cylinder head"]

 

10.1 hrs total.  This sounds more realistic.  And with an old vehicle, some shops will add 1-3hrs for gotchas and breakage.  ESPECIALLY if you have a rust heap.  

 

Parts prices per Alldata:

 

Timing Chain 1350635030 $253.11

Chain Damper 1356235020 $32.59

Chain Damper 1356135020 $44.05

Cylinder Head Gasket 1111535060 $59.39

 

$389.14 in parts.  But a few things are mentioned in the procedure that are not in the parts list.  Expect parts prices to go up.  Oil pan gasket, seals, and a couple other gaskets.  We would order a full engine gasket set.  Radiator has to come out as part of the procedure, if not in great shape expect to see that on the parts list.  Thermostat, water pump, oil change.  

 

Lets say labor is $200 an hour.  Thats pretty high.  That would be $2000.  If we add in another $1000 for additional parts, again VERY high, that still has the total at only $3389.14 plus tax.  (Now this also doesn't account for a warped head needing to be taken to the machine shop.)  

 

Currently the national average for labor rates is about $145hr.  RV shop rates around here are as high as $200hr.  But even with estimating reasonably on the high side, MAYBE $4000.  And again that's on the high side.  With the right stars aligning for you, you could get it done for as little $1400-2000.

 

Anyways my point is that is is super easy to be lazy and stack all the jobs and quickly bang together a silly high estimate.  There are a lot of unknowns with old vehicles and any smart service writer will add in some breathing room to cover breakage and gotchas.  But $8000 means 'We don't want this job because it and or the customer are a pain in the ..."  

 

Finding the right shop is key, if you are paying to have it done...  A lot of mechanics will tackle jobs like this on the side too.  Ask around to your friends perhaps.  I don't get off the couch on the weekend for small side jobs, but putting a grand in my pocket for a weekend day I would do.  

 

While it looks pretty involved, it isn't too bad of a job.  Take your time.  Probably be a little more organized with your bolts and nuts...  If I am doing a long term job (if it is going to be apart for more than a day or so or has to be moved) a good trick is to grab a sharpie and a pile of envelopes.  Envelopes are easier to write on than ziplock bags, and it won't rub off.   Put them in groups.  Valve cover, throttle body, etc.  Seal them up when done with each section.    

 

This is a very doable DIY job.  Power tools cut the time WAY down, but it can be done with hand tools.  Or better yet, go get a few Milwauke M12 tools.  1/4" ratchet, 3/8 small impact.  If you are saving $7000, you can afford a few tools to make it go easier.  

 

 

 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

I did the dirty deed and put in some K Sealant aka snake oil. The leaked stopped, the coolant is a mucky brown color. I'm going to shoot for the spring to do the head gasket, don't want to spend time out in the cold getting it changed, I suspect a month or 2 to get it done. I still have to procure some tools and an engine lift.

 

I camp during the winter months, easier to get into the sites around here, figure I can get my last hurrah at my favorite spots. This could be the last for this rig, I give it a 30% change of success. 

 

We'll keep you up to date on how the K Seal works and what ramifications come from it.

 

Cheers,

Gary

Edited by Gary_M
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Good luck Gary! I see Fred talking about lifting the head with the intake and exhaust manifolds still attached. I looked online and could find no information/ images of it being done that way.  I did the same job last year and it is a big job no matter what anyone says. Not particularly hard but a lot of steps and time consuming for the non mechanic. The video you posted is helpful you just have to pause it frequently because he works through it so fast. 

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1 hour ago, Scott iv said:

Good luck Gary! I see Fred talking about lifting the head with the intake and exhaust manifolds still attached. I looked online and could find no information/ images of it being done that way.  I did the same job last year and it is a big job no matter what anyone says. Not particularly hard but a lot of steps and time consuming for the non mechanic. The video you posted is helpful you just have to pause it frequently because he works through it so fast. 

The head gasket replacement  procedure is covered in the FSM. Intake and exhaust manifolds stay attached.

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The video posted above is excellent, and I’m sure there are plenty more. A fancy engine lift isn’t needed. In a pinch a 2x4, a strap, and a friend will do it. My bro and I pulled a whole engine out in a gravel parking lot this way. If even needed at all. If the head is too heavy, just take the exhaust manifold off. 
 

A skill mechanics hone over the years, is remembering where it all goes. The various length bolts especially. Cardboard and a sharpie are a decent cheat.   
 

This job shouldn’t take two months. If it does parts will go missing and you will forget. With hand tools and first time maybe 6-8 tops to get it off. 
 

I have a thread with the Toyota FSM linked. Read, print out what you need. Watch a few more videos. 

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S and K tools very good  work for me . i did an older head job on a 20 r carb eng . wife hold timing chain  me and a freand to lift head off manifolds on . admit i never done efi. if they overheated it very easy too blo.w head gasket.                                 also seen heads ruined ate up from never changing antifreeze  .

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Any brand tools after fine, as long as they say Snap-On or Milwaukee!!!  😂

 

But really any halfway decent brand will do.  Invest in Professional brand wrenches though, don’t cheap out there.  This is a place where quality is a big deal and the difference between rounded bolts and busted knuckles. 
 

My work box has an assortment of brands with probably 60-70% of the hand tools being Snap-On. At home it is near 100%. In my home/go box the emphasis is on Snap-On 1/4 drive stuff. If I’m using hand tools I am in tight spaces. And I can abuse their 1/4 stuff like most would 3/8ths. Plus at home I’m usually working on something I want to enjoy. Quality makes it more enjoyable for sure. 
 

With that said, my to-go brand at home for 30 years has been some Craftsman and then Harbor Freight. My junkyard bag it packed out in HF. Their ratchets suck, rough and course. But they get it done and if I loose one I don’t care. 

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There is a difference in design the 22R had a double roller chain  they would outlast the engine the 22RE used a single roller chain 100K, time for a new one along with guides and tensioner.

 

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Do yourself a favor and use an oem head gasket.

Also get an oem thermostat for it also, took me a couple head gaskets in another vehicle to figure that one out.

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On 10/13/2022 at 8:39 PM, fred heath said:

The head gasket replacement  procedure is covered in the FSM. Intake and exhaust manifolds stay attached.

Found my FSM while cleaning the storeroom. Manifold attachment is highlighted.

8DA57DEB-440A-4552-A690-DC3A8DE9235C.jpeg

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I see pros and cons to not removing the intake manifold. Definite pro is less wrenching. The image is for the carbureted version; not sure what would be different with EFI; probably not too much. I know my  block required quite a bit of clean up before replacing the gasket. My head did as well though I replaced it. Getting the head up and out with intake and exhaust manifold still attached would be a pain.  Removing the exhaust manifold and pushing it aside is easy as long as the nuts and bolts come free. Just lifting it high enough to replace the gasket wouldn't allow for sufficient cleaning IMO. 

 

I took the opportunity to clean my fuel rail and replace all the rubbers, plastics, and filters on my fuel injectors. Accessing the fuel rail requires some additional intake disassembly. Like everything else, rubber and plastic on these is old and brittle; my injector seals were hard and not pliable I'm sure allowing air in. 

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