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Roof Membrane, or any better, maybe simpler ideas?


thewanderlustking

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$4!+ my roof is leaking from two new spots now!!! Three if I count the half @$$ quick patch for the 14" hole left by removing the AC unit...  That is a given and not one I expected to hold up for long.  We had an UGLY ugly storm last night and there probably is a few gallons of water trapped up there dripping down now.  

 

Anyways I need to address this before really moving forward.  I am going to start a new uncluttered thread and grab some information from my Roof HELP! Other than setting this on fire, any other more realistic options? thread.  

 

Check out this specific post for more pictures of the roof  But here is an interesting one.  I can't tell for sure, but I suspect this may have had a rubber membrane put down on it at some point???  It looks like they draped/stretched it and then used these side rails to screw it down, then cut underneath the rails.  

 

A221547E-0799-4CE5-8585-B7EA630073BE.jpeg

 

I have steered away from doing this as it isn't really a DIY kinda thing.  Although saying anything isn't DIY=able on here might get me ridiculed/banned LOL!  Wow some of the things I have seen tackled here...  Comfort zones though.  Some of us will rebuild the whole rear half, but not want to touch a simple head gasket job.  Doing that in a Walmart or Autozone parking lot wouldn't even phase me.  But I digress lol...  

 

By the time I buy the supplies needed I could potentially just pay to have it done professionally, with one caveat.  My additional support beams on top of the roof membrane/skin.  Meh maybe not.  A very quick and dirty search puts about a $4k price tag on having it done professionally, so yeah that motivates me a lot more to do it myself.  Especially as this isn't factoring in any additional repairs needed AKA, the roof brace beams...   If I could reasonably have it done for $1k-1500, I would HAPPILY pay to have somebody else do it.  But it is super hard to justify more than 2k for this.  I need to call around a little and see if I can get a reasonable quote to have it done locally.  

 

What would be the best approach?

 

1)  A paint on roof membrane kit, like Dicor perhaps.

 

2)  A rubber membrane, remembering that my roof isn't even remotely a simple flat surface.  

 

The Decor paint on kit is roughly $500.  I found a RecPro Extreme duty membrane kit for $400.  From my standpoint, spending $500-700 on something I just paint on without needing to remove all the support beams, wins.  But if removing those to put down a membrane, then putting them back on top of that membrane (with the securing bolts going through it) is a superior repair, I am down for the extra work.  

 

I don't really see a scenario where I don't use those support beams though.  I kinda have a decent plan for tackling the interior ceiling, but using those is (currently) key to that.   

 

I have been fighting this roof for almost 3yrs now though, it is time to finally get it knocked out of the park.  It is stopping any further progress inside, and keeping the RV from actually being usable.  I can manage without AC and with the rest of the issues.  But I need the roof sealed so I can clean up the ceiling and actually put the effort into the interior.  I just finished a major reorganization of the workshop.  So I am ready to start on the inside of this!!!    

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"Bueller, Bueller, Bueller...."  Lol sorry, couldn't resist!  I am surprised that nobody has specific experience or opinions to share on this though???  

 

PLEASE HELP AND ADVISE guys and gals!  My floor is getting soaked again and again and I am afraid more damage is being done.  I need to get this handled ASAP.  I apologize for another long post, but I have done tons of research on this and not finding the perfect and comfortable solution.  I have also tried the easy repairs, and I have to notch it up a few to either a glue on skin, or a paint on one.  Or both...   So I have three main solutions. 

 

1)  But seriously...  Have any of you guys done a rubber membrane/skin?  Is there any real advantage of that over a simpler paint on Membrane like Dicor?  In my case it already has a couple strikes against it, I have to completely remove the additional aluminum above roof braces.  I can't really get to the last one without doing some destruction or exploration in the bathroom.  (WME's suggestion of the radar wall tool might reduce that suffering slightly at least...  And it is a good excuse for another cool tool!)        

 

I have some concerns, all the videos show it going down on more modern curved RV roofs that are almost baby skin smooth.  Minimal holes and obstructions.  I am not sure how well it is going to work on top of my patches and repairs, they aren't perfectly smooth or flush.

 

2)  The paint on solutions look like they are going to be the more realistic option.  But it seams -cough=- I do have some mechanical damages here and there to the roof.  I don't think any big cracks or spans are left, (and any I find I would repair) so mostly pinholes.  

 

The Decor RP 30 Renew Kit apparently has one major disadvantage, weather.  It needs at least two dry days to setup.  30-40hrs.  It also says it goes over EPDM, and nothing is said about aluminum or other materials...  I am kinda concerned about this.  It also says "cleaner ACTIVATOR" and has to be done all in one sitting. 

 

Rexoseal RV Roof Restoration Kit looks a LOT more promising.  Slightly more expensive perhaps.  But left overs can be used and coats added later too.  It specifically says it can go over aluminum, wood, and EPDM, so seems I am well covered there.  It seems to have an almost discouraging amount of prep work though.  It comes with a pole sander...  If this means a near perfectly cleaned/smooth surface is needed down to that metal/wood, it would be a no-go.  

 

I like the Liquid Rubber RV Roof Coating the best so far.  But it requires primers to for EPDM and TPO and I have no idea what the existing stuff on there is...  And it could even be multiple types of stuff too.  They do have primers available, seem to be about $80 a gallon.  I like the price overall.   But I know you can get what you pay for and it is coming in a fair bit cheaper than the other kits.  But it is not including the installation supplies, so perhaps it is just not inflated artificially by those?   And it specifically can go on over corrosion to "seal and encapsulate" it.  

 

3)  If I skin this and then reseal it, or seal, skin, seal...  I will probably get the best of all worlds.  But unless I go with the last option above, the Liquid Rubber RV Roof Coating, I really don't think this is an economical approach.  And probably unnecessary.  I don't feel this is a viable option.

 

Finally, I can (and may actually have to) do an intermediate stop gap repair.  It is hard to tell but my roof might not be one continue panel.  From inside there is one place where it looks like the outer aluminum skin is joined together going across.  I can't tell for sure due to this seam not being visible on top (it might be underneath one of the aluminum cross braces.  And from inside it is right up against where the steel beam and wood braces.  If this is actually a seam, it would make a lot of sense as to why it is yet another leak/weak point.  

 

4)  I am thinking to eternabond these seams and any other concern areas I can find, then layer the other repairs on top of that.  In fact overall this approach would be the nicest.  Cheaper and quick initial repair, then use a good paint on solution a little later.  Unfortunately, we are in rainy season now and most of the permeant solutions either don't mention it, or require setting up 40-70 hours...  If this was a quick half hour job, I could then leave it parked inside the shop over the weekend.  But it isn't.  There is no real way to coordinate it so I have enough time to do the job, and then guarantee keeping it out of the rain for 24+ hrs....     

 

I really need to get it sealed up okay for now so I can start on the inside.  Get out of rainy season and put a paintable "god coat" of something on overtop that will maintain nicely and be a long term solution.  

 

Whatever I do I need to figure out the approach and execute ASAP.  The 14" hole patch job isn't holding up well either and is likely my main leakage point.  There were defiantly others though...  I think I am going to plug the hole with this Caphont 14” RV Roof Vent Fan with Remote or maybe spend a little more for the Maxxair.  But I need to make sure I have a second spot that makes sense to put it if I pop an AC unit back up on the roof.  I think the extra money spent on one of these over a simple $40 vent fan is probably worth it.  I should be able to leave either of these on long term running off my house battery/solar setup.  Both I can adjust the speed 10 steps, so I probably can find a point where it is effective and not sucking more out of the battery than the solar can make up.  

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Sunrader Roof leaks 101:

1.)

its the screws. No matter what they are its them; remove them in favor of rubber gasket steel roof screws and have partner hold small block of rot resistant wood inside for screw to bite into so it seals, but not before a dollop of caulk in the hole.do this on every roof rack and other screw no matter how time consuming.

2.)

Never remove AC without a full pop in window kit with butyl tape. You cannot dam that hole. Too big. Put ac back on torque back down.

 

 

 

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Have you given any thought to a spray on pickup bed liner?

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8 hours ago, WME said:

Have you given any thought to a spray on pickup bed liner?

If going this route, i heavily recommend Harbor freights roll on bedliner. I did a dodge ram as well as six 22 foot trailer bunks with it and its absolutely bullet proof stuff. VERY reasonable price also.

The only down side to it would be it only comes in Black, that would get hot fast in summer. 

 

 

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The spray on bedliner WME referenced actually works out to be the same as some of the "correct" options.  I didn't look at the HF stuff, black isn't an option.  But honestly I am no longer trying to "save a buck" on a repair that might be good enough for a while, I want this done and fixed long-term to the very best of my abilities.  I have already been down this route, the repairs didn't last and caused more issues than just figuring out how to do it right and spend the money for the right supplies.  

 

I am also thinking that a very smooth roof covering will be far easier to cleaning than a rough bedliner textured coating.     

 

Mechanical is where I excel.  Rebuilding the engine, not a problem.  Wiring up, sorting that stuff out, exhaust, engine management, all that comes easy to me.  My house construction skills, not so much.  I am fair at making things, but I probably put in way more time and effort in than somebody would who is more skilled at such.  So once I start on the interior remodel, I only want to do that once.  

 

Totem, unfortunately I don't have a Sunrader, but a Mini Cruiser....  Some moron at R.B.R. thought it was a good idea to build an RV with steel framework and aluminum skin.  Some even more moronic morons after that bad decision did some pretty sketch repairs to the roof and made even worse repair choices...  There is liquid nails or something used to regale the rusty support beams directly to the aluminum skin.  Not surprisingly, this is where the current leaks appear to be originating.  

 

Excluding the bolts for the cross beams (that are VERY WELL sealed up) there are only 8 screw holes through the roof for the solar panels.  And none of these, surprisingly, are leaking.  They will all be removed and filled in as they are likely future incursion points and the solar can easily be mounted to the braces anyways.  

 

If it weren't for those braces, I would reskin the roof with a membrane job.  Without peeling the whole roof off and completely rebuilding it, I need to retain those exterior braces.  A roof off repair isn't an option here, I can't get it into my backyard to do something like this.  It currently lives in one of our two driveways out front for all our neighbors to gawk at.  While nobody complains currently, I try to be kinda respectful of what I do out front lol.  Our other house is about an hour away, I could do it there I guess, but that would take a LOT of coordination and I don't have tools or a workshop there.

 

Removing the upper braces to put a membrane down is doable, but they need to go back down.  Each brace has 3-4 carriage bolts going through it up from underneath.  These would again need to be super well sealed up.  And I suspect I need a pretty darn flat/smooth surface to lay the skin down on top of, I don't really have that either.  

 

So far there are two votes for a spray/paint on solution.  A membrane skin is still in the running as a potentially good idea, but I am heavily leaning towards the Liquid Rubber RV Roof Coating solution.  

 

The plan of attack that I am forming is to:

 

1)  Cut out the steel beams underneath the roof skin, and get some more cleanup done inside.  This is likely to due further damage     

 

2)   Asses where the new(?) leaks are and eternabond tape those spots and over the existing patches.  

 

3)  Remove and seal the solar panel holes

 

4)  Put a vent/fan into where the AC came out of, ac most likely to go back in there later after repairs and interior is completed  

 

5)  Liquid Rubber RV Roof after verifying the roof to be either fully or mostly leak free.  I like the ability to redcoat at any time with the Liquid Rubber.  This unfortunately might have to wait until rainy season is over so it can have the 2-4 days really needed to setup though.    

 

I don't really want to put the new ceiling up until it is verified leak free.  I need to redo the interior ceiling braces before step 5 though...

 

Alright it is back in the main driveway so I can get some work done on it.  Gotta mow the lawn first, then put the catalytic converter on it.  It is Florida, so it will likely rain later this evening lol.  I think I am going to try and get the steal braces cut out today and see how bad it is above them.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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YIKES!  The Eternabond tape is reasonably priced (for what it is), but the freaking cleaner and primer aren't....  

 

Okay guys a quick question.  Do I really need the full kit with the cleaner and primer?    

 

I just looked again and found some more realistic prices, but it is still going to be close to $200 for the supplies.  There are other options like RISTROW tape that would be WAY cheaper.  But I always see Eternabond mentioned first.  Is this a generic kinda use "ductape" scenario, or is the Eternabond brand itself really the best one to use?  

 

Oh, and remember I am going to coat overtop whatever repair tape I do end up using.  

 

I am working on removing the steal beams right now.  What a mess...

Edited by thewanderlustking
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OK so this is kind of out there but I think it would work for you. I need a roof on my house bad. Water poured in where the enclosed patio meets the house. I tried a ton of products but nothing worked until I tried this stuff. Place that leaked was dry as a bone last winter when it rains constantly here. Available in several different widths but it doesn't say here they are all 33ft long. Just figure what will fit your needs. Sticks like crazy. Make sure you've got it lined up right cause it's not going to come up again to realign. Looks great too. Absolutely no need to paint over it and it comes in white. Oh and no extensive cleaning before. I didn't prepare my roof first, I just swept off the loose gravely stuff from the old roofing

MFM Peel & Seal Self Stick Roll Roofing (buymbs.com)

Remember to buy enough for some overlap. Not alot for an RV, couple of inches at the most. If you want to see it first I have a little left, I can send you a sample. PM me with address

Linda S

 

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SWEET!  That is perfect!  It adds back in a little structure, is essentially the same as the Eternabond, and it is much wider!  In the reviews for that, probably 3/4 or better were actually using it on RV roofs, and I saw one that looked like a Dolphin to Mini Cruiser.   

 

I did some digging around and reading the fine print, that does need/reccomend the primer in a few installation scenarios (like over EPDM).  And they seemed to overlap with the eternabond recommendations.  Fortunately the materials for cleaning and priming seem to be readily available at the local hardware store.  I get the feeling that this and the Eternabond products are essentially the exact same, except for marketing and the "specialist" nature of the eternabond.  

 

So I do need to try and figure out what is on my roof now.  And it is pretty funky, so I also need to do some sort of cleanup.  

 

I shouldn't need that sample though thank you Linda.  Something like 9 rolls of the MFM are on the shelf at Lowes.  

Edited by thewanderlustking
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Actually Linda, I will take you up on that offer if not too much trouble!  I sent you a PM.  Thank you!  

 

Okay a little more digging and looking for solutions.  There is a pretty high chance my roof has an EPDM membrane on it.  And some other unknowns too...  I pulled this from the MFM information linked above:  

 

Quote

 

Peel and Seal can be installed on an EPDM roof, but you must prime it with either WeatherBond Multi Purpose Primer or Mule Hide Tape Primer.

This self-adhering rolled roofing is very simple to install. Simply make sure your surface is clean, smooth, dry, and free of any loose debris. Be sure to prime your surface with an asphalt primer before applying Peel & Seal, especially on weathered surfaces made of plywood, OSB, composition board, and masonry. 

 

 

So while perhaps not 100% necessary, I am going to go with it is probably a really good idea to primer before laying down.  The Peel and Seal stuff is just expensive enough that I want to guarantee I only do this ONCE.  Maybe I am being overcautious?  But as we know my roof is a MESS and I won't get it cleaned off enough to be laying on  bare aluminum.  Plus that would take way more time than the cost of primer.  And that primer also seems to be what is needed for most of the liquid coverings too.  

 

Having trouble finding a price for the Mule Hide Tape Primer MFM recommends, but some similar products seem to be about $30.  The  I have a distributer for the Mule Hide right around the corner I can contact during normal work hours lol.   Searching EPDM Primer though brings up some more interesting stuff like: EPDM Rinse Cleaner  Starting to get a little more spendy, but it also perfectly describes the mess up there that I am dealing with...    

 

Still doing cleanup though outside and inside.

 

Anyways trying out a couple actual pieces of the MFM material up on the mess will give me a much better idea if I really need primer.  And for that matter if the Peel and Seal will even work at all.  

Edited by thewanderlustking
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Cover the roof with 4x8 sheets of pvc from HomeDepot and secure it with 3m 5200 and self tapping screws on the edges. Cover the seams with overlapped strips of pvc.

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Well it survived a cat 5 hurricane with almost no leaks!  It leaked through the makeshift plywood patch, but I knew it was going to as even in a more mild rain it was dripping. So I put the ac cover pan underneath it. Was a great place to store it out of the hurricane anyways. There was another small leak either in the back where I didn’t reseal, or right on the border where I stopped, I can’t tell exactly where yet. 

 

The rest is bone dry!  I call that a win!  
 

Our main house did fine, our second house for Mom sustained unknown damages, but we can’t get there yet to see how bad it is.  
 

The in-laws lost their house completely. But they fortunately were up north. 

 

Anyways, this isn’t a pity party but FINALLY some good news that the roof is sealed up!  That Henry 887 stuff worked AWESOME!  
 

The generator we got a couple years back for hurricanes/power outages is STUPID QUIET.  I will check it with a decible meter later, but I think it could be run in a campground without being too disruptive. It is also light. Rethinking utilizing it for the RV. 

 

And it could have been way worse.  It was a scary storm!  

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Glad to hear things were just scary instead of catastrophic.

The normal leaky AC thing on old Toyota's is the roof is bowed in. A 1/16" of of bow is as bad as 1". The water just pools and fines a hole.

Any thing you can do to raise the center will help. 

Looking at your setup, can you raise the ends of the cross beans any?? Raising the ends and a bolting through the roof in the center might be enough.

 

 

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Well Ian was pretty destructive and very catastrophic to many, just fortunately not us.  Standing on my roof and every house around me suffered either damages, or massive trees down, or both.  For once it is nice to see that my over obsessive preparations actually were worth while.  My neighbors are probably convinced now that I’m crazy as I was excited the RV didn’t leak!  I will probably use the stove in it tonight to make dinner too!  

 

I have been thinking about that problem…. There is some flex to the exterior braces.  If I can keep the ends pulled down while pushing up in the middle, I could make the interior support beams from 2-3 pieces of oak each and laminate them. My interior is such where I could do this all in

place. But…. Doing it out of there on a jig would give me way more control and I could get it even. And again I don’t need a lot. Half an inch to maybe an inch. 
 

I need to under engineer my over engineering bran and work on the idea until I come up with an effective solution for this particular use case lol. Less work always wins, especially if I can make it effective. The only hard part of this idea is to figure out the geometry of it and how to make a jig simply enough. 

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Sorry, that was a double post I missed!  I was using my phone.  I have upgraded to my laptop, tethered to my phone.  

 

Clarification:  The upper beams are lag bolted to interior braces with 3-5 bolts per brace.  They are also really well glued to the aluminum skin...  There was one place that I could lift the end up, and it was pulling the skin up too.

 

But utilizing that concept, I think I can introduce a bow into the interior braces, then bolt/sandwitch it to the top and solve the issue.  

 

 

 

 

Edited by thewanderlustking
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