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Question regarding electrical....


cucklorde666

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So after doing some research I think I'm thinking about rolling with the solar panels.

 

our main sources of elctricity will be air conditioning, refrigerator, tv at night and my laptop (tech guy here)

Please hit me with yall's knowledge as I am a complete newbie and plan on utilizing m father in law to help out with the build and what not!

stark 12v 125 AH lithium batteries (x2)

 

victron BMU-702 monitor

 

victron cyrix li-ct battery combiner

 

maxxair 4000k air/vent

 

Poly crystalline panels because i heard that are more efficient then monocrystalline (input  please!!!)

 

Victron Multiplus 3000VA 12-volt Pure Sine Wave 120amp inverter

 ---- or if i could get away with a less expensive one I'd love too.

 

Victron MPPT 12-24 volt 100v 20amp controller

 

But there's my list so far! Thanks for an amazing forum and any responses!

Edited by cucklorde666
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Ok you kind of lost me the max air thing draws 4K watts? That at 12 volts is over 300 amps from the batteries. It is factor of 10 from 120 house voltage to 12 volts DC (more or less). With some thing like an Air conditioner you also need to think about inrush current (start current) also it can be massive. I'm all  in for solar I have a 100 watt panel home built frame that I can elevate and turn it folds flat in transit and two batteries. The 100 watts will charge the batteries but my current demand is low. The light bulbs in a MH or camper draw a great deal of power my camper had 13 glass bulbs with them all on it drew 23 amps from the batteries! They now are all led's  with a current draw of 3.3 amps. In your case it would be cheaper and more efficient to buy a nice little inverter generator if you need to take your house with you.

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A few things put your solar dreams out of reach. The air conditioner and an electric refrigerator can and do use lots of power especially in a steamy New York summer. There are lower power options but all of them extremely expensive. Are you getting rid of all the propane? What do you have in mind for cooking and heat. 

That kind of battery load will require at least 400watts of solar panels to keep it charged . Loots of roof space for a little motorhome. Maybe too big. 

Of course the Maxx fan is just a fan. runs on 12 volts and not a power hog. 12 volt tv's are also easy to find and there are 12 volt converters for laptops so all of these are not a problem. 

So we need exact models of the high power appliances to check how much power you need to run them. 

Linda S

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Anything is possible, all it takes is $$$$. Don't bother counting it, just bring a scale to weigh it🤔. To outfit a Toy sized MH with solar AC figure on a minimum of $7.5K.

1.  12v AC $2500

2.  1600w of solar panels $2200. You have to have enough solar to run the AC AND recharge the batteries in the day.

3.  800 AH of 100ah Lipo batteries. $3500.

Side notes... Solar 12v AC needs a minimum of 80 amps at 12v to run, up to a Max of 100 amps.

200w solar panels are around 11 SQ ft, so figure 90 Sq ft of clear roof top.

800 AH of Lipo batteries weigh around 400lbs. 

All this assumes you want AC when you want it 24/7.

All of a sudden a 3000w inverter generator for $800 looks real interesting

Edited by WME
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I enjoyed watching this guy's video about his mini split system on his RV. Low power option and this guy makes interesting points regarding them. Problem is the space the inside portion needs and our small campers. Something creative to watch as you consider electric boon dock options. 

 

 

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Wow thank yall for all the responses!

To be honest I'm not deadset on a certain path to take the electrical so im open for all options.

 

Maybe I should have explained better about the AC but I am not talking about a "window unit" but more or less just like a decent fan or something. Anything to keep the air circulating and a nice breeze.

 

So with that being said in terms of staying cool during the warmer months, how do you guys manage? Battery powered fans? What type of A/c do you suggest?

 

Also I'm curious about this inverter generator....?

Edited by cucklorde666
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Since mentioning an inverter generator I have been looking those up and that seems to fit my needs perfectly! I'm considering going with one that is duel fuel, but there is also one that i can recharge with a solar panel....

What're yall's suggestions as far as an inverter generator that isnt too loud, atleast dual fuel, and can power 1 laptop, a decent fan (maxxfann)?

Also what would yall suggest as far as a mini refrigerator goes? I keep reading about domitech and they seem pretty dank.

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OK simple first. Most cheap generators use a single cylinder industrial engine  running at 3600 RPM. making 120v 60 cycle ac They are loud and run at 3600 rpm under even a tiny load burning a lot of fuel.  An inverter generator makes DC voltage and runs it through an on board inverter to make 120v ac. As the load varies the engine rpm will change to match the load. At modest loads the engine is just above idle and burns much less fuel, at full load the engine speeds up, they are still a bit quieter than the average industrial generator at the same load. 

Harbor Freight has some very popular 2000w and 3500w inverters. Honda and Yamaha  are the best in the price be dammed category.

https://www.harborfreight.com/2000-watt-super-quiet-inverter-generator-62523.html

https://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-EF2000iSv2-Starting-Portable-Inverter/dp/B002RWK9N2

I camp in the desert a lot and my AC requirements are a lot more than you will need on the east coast.

There are small 9.5K btu roof ACs that will run on a 2000w inverter generator (carry on sized). 

A maxxair or Fantastic vent fan will vent a lot of air into the RV, but that will only cool it to about 5-10 degrees above outside air temp due to heat gain. A Fantastic Fan Endless Breeze will move a LOT of air around inside.

Your proposed system would work great with these 12v options, but it ain't AC on those east coast hot muggy days.

About the stove and refrigerator, RV MFG have done a lot of work on propane powered appliances and there is a lot more energy in a gallon of propane (4.2lbs) than there is in 4.2lbs of battery.

  

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Well with out all the details it's still close to 40 amps per hour he also so has a lot more room for batteries. I run a Fantastic fan in the roof vent and as the day cools I am able to get by on low speed On high speed it draws 3 amps. This also is in a 17' full size camper the 100 watt solar panel alone will run it. An inverter generator is different than a cheap generator, a normal generator has to run 3600 RPM to make 60 cycles so it never slows down a inverter generator speed is on demand so when the load is low it turns a great deal slower and the big plus it is a great deal quieter.

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1 minute ago, Maineah said:

Well with out all the details it's still close to 40 amps per hour he also so has a lot more room for batteries. I run a Fantastic fan in the roof vent and as the day cools I am able to get by on low speed On high speed it draws 3 amps. This also is in a 17' full size camper the 100 watt solar panel alone will run it. An inverter generator is different than a cheap generator, a normal generator has to run 3600 RPM to make 60 cycles so it never slows down a inverter generator speed is on demand so when the load is low it turns a great deal slower and the big plus it is a great deal quieter.

WME is spot on propane is the way to go it is easy to deal with and very clean and efficient you can carry a huge amount of energy in a 20# propane tank enough to make a battery bank look puny. There are some very nice DC refrigerator units with a nice big price tag to match. Most are a chest type and take up a lot of floor space. The propane gas fridge works very well and makes no noise. 

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See my wife and i plan on heading to the desert sometime around november from the east coast....

 

 

I love the idea of the fantastic breeze fans, Hell i didnt even know that they made box fans that are low power!

As far as the dual generator goes I was looking into that yamahaha one before you suggested it... it seems worth it but the price is kinda steep.

Would that be able to run a low power fridge and some fans, with a laptop?


 

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OK apples and oranges... Basic electric math,  watts=volts x amps. Some things are rated in amps and some in watts. So you use this formula to make things the same.

2000w generator = 16 amps

Fantastic fan max speed 1.6 amps = 20 watts

average lap top input 1.5 amps @ 120vac= 144 w, inverter input 15 amps

12v compressor rv fridge 7 amps = 85 watts

A 120v dorm fridge will need an inverter to run (you listed one) 480w.  inverter input 40 amps 12v in.

So doing the math a 2000w generator will do what you want. EXCEPT run a standard RV AC. So you need a smaller AC or bigger generator.

Running a micro wave and an AC needs 3000w+

Research your equipment and see what ou really need

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Didn't your Dolphin come with a fridge? The propane ones are the most efficient. Also you don't need an inverter for laptops or some tv's. I use a 12 volt converter for my laptop and I have a 12 volt tv that didn't cost a ton. Also does you furnace work. The desert in the winter is not that hot in the day but night time temps can drop rapidly.

Linda S

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IMHO😜

Older RV's, unless your replacing something that's BROKE... K.I.S.S.

Lipo batteries awesome, light, powerful $$$$.  2 lead acid GP 27 Walmart deep cycle batteries, heavy, need 2 batteries $. If you need warranty work Walmart is everywhere.

LiPo needs special charger $$ Walmart batteries will work with your existing charger. $0

200w basic solar kit $250

Keep Propane Fridge $0

Keep Propane stove $0... You said you wanted a dual fuel generator, so you are going to have a propane tank.

Dual fuel Yamaha generator 2200w  $1200. They make less power on propane. The Onan 2800 gas generator becomes the Onan 2300 propane generator

Gasoline Harbor Freight 2000w inverter generator $550

Low amp roof mount AC $1000, if your current roof AC works, you should be able to use a 2000w generator to run it, IF you add this to your system...http://www.micro-air.com/products_easystart_364_softstarter_microair.cfm

DC to DC 200 boost converter $15. For your laptop

12v  24" tv $175.

Convert ALL your interior lights to LED bulbs. A standard 1157 uses 2 amps, a LED replacement uses .2 amps

 

 

  

 

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Champion also makes dual fuel generators including a 2500w for under a grand. 

 

Even the tiny microwaves are power hogs. 

 

Math will allow you to approximate your power needs. There are many many variables that will likely have you needing more power than you calculate by adding the power draw requirements of your appliances. 

 

There is no one right way to set up your camper. Have fun with trial and error. 

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my son has the big champion inverter type generater duel fuel . i think it is 5             ,ooo5 oo watts starting load . cost like 1,000 dollors new. resonably quit on moderate loads. this is on the back of a 35 foot pull trailer. he has 4 group 24 deep cycle batteries on the front  . we went out this spring in the desert of eastern wash st .wind was 40 miles an hour very cold nights. after 3 nights the batteries were dead flat . he also has a full computer office in the back of it . this genny also has its own starting battery . great unit but big some what and a little heavy.run on propane is the way to go . no bad gas no carb gunk up.

Edited by 5Toyota
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When you cross the 2.8KW line the generators jump up to the 100 LB + range that is also a factor to consider.

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yes you are very right there .that thing would be over kill in weight for shure . but is a nice unit . in my case he can carry it and i can carry  a 100 foot cord LOL. and yes it is heavy need 2 men to mount and dismount.

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I have a Honda 5K generator it's on the plus side of 230#! Not a real good addition for all ready over weight MH! It does run my house though.

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On 9/26/2021 at 2:59 PM, linda s said:

Didn't your Dolphin come with a fridge? The propane ones are the most efficient. Also you don't need an inverter for laptops or some tv's. I use a 12 volt converter for my laptop and I have a 12 volt tv that didn't cost a ton. Also does you furnace work. The desert in the winter is not that hot in the day but night time temps can drop rapidly.

Linda S

Unfortunately not... the people who owned it before me took that out as well as the toilet....

Choices...

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On 9/26/2021 at 9:21 PM, WME said:

IMHO😜

Older RV's, unless your replacing something that's BROKE... K.I.S.S.

Lipo batteries awesome, light, powerful $$$$.  2 lead acid GP 27 Walmart deep cycle batteries, heavy, need 2 batteries $. If you need warranty work Walmart is everywhere.

LiPo needs special charger $$ Walmart batteries will work with your existing charger. $0

200w basic solar kit $250

Keep Propane Fridge $0

Keep Propane stove $0... You said you wanted a dual fuel generator, so you are going to have a propane tank.

Dual fuel Yamaha generator 2200w  $1200. They make less power on propane. The Onan 2800 gas generator becomes the Onan 2300 propane generator

Gasoline Harbor Freight 2000w inverter generator $550

Low amp roof mount AC $1000, if your current roof AC works, you should be able to use a 2000w generator to run it, IF you add this to your system...http://www.micro-air.com/products_easystart_364_softstarter_microair.cfm

DC to DC 200 boost converter $15. For your laptop

12v  24" tv $175.

Convert ALL your interior lights to LED bulbs. A standard 1157 uses 2 amps, a LED replacement uses .2 amps

 

You think well need a roof AC or think we could get by with the maxxfan and maybe a low wattage electrical fan i could plug into the generator?

  

 

 

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Winter in the desert 60-70 degrees day time...30-40 night. If your there in the winter a heater is more important. "Winter" is Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb. The temps climb quickly.

Just what appliances do you have in your RV that work?

 

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Just now, WME said:

Winter in the desert 60-70 degrees day time...30-40 night. If your there in the winter a heater is more important. "Winter" is Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb. The temps climb quickly.

Just what appliances do you have in your RV that work?

 

I have a shower, the original stove , and the original lighting.

So i definitely wanna replace interior lighting with LEDS, but as far as suggestions please hit me with them!
If you got links even better!

thank you so much for your help so far too btw.

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Do you have a converter?? 120vac to 12vdc AND charges the house battery. DO you have a power cord that plugs into your house, and the rv house

lights work, without the engine running.  If you have a converter what model is it? Don't know!! take a photo.

Think about what you paid for your Toy house, then add up the cost for your proposed system, then make a real budget 

Do you speak electricity, do you have skills 

Edited by WME
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On 9/29/2021 at 12:39 AM, WME said:

Do you have a converter?? 120vac to 12vdc AND charges the house battery. DO you have a power cord that plugs into your house, and the rv house

lights work, without the engine running.  If you have a converter what model is it? Don't know!! take a photo.

Think about what you paid for your Toy house, then add up the cost for your proposed system, then make a real budget 

Do you speak electricity, do you have skills 

Yes the lights do come on without the engine running!

Well I'm considering buying that yamaha inverter generator, would that not suffice if the converter is fucked?

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Generator is NOT a sub for correct converter.

The converter runs the 12v side of your house power when you are plugged into shore power at an RV park and it charges the house batteries at the same time. It switches over to batteries when your boon-docking. The truck alternator also charges the house batteries when the your driving. 

The generator can act as "shore power" if your not plugged in, but it's powering the converter.

In an emergency the generator can direct charges your 12v batteries, but it's charge rate is around 3 amps. A 200w solar panel is around 11-12 amps and most newer converters are in the 45-60 amps charge range. Old school converters are also in the 3-5 amp range. That's why we need to know what you have old or new style converter

The generator would take 3 days to recharge your lithium batteries if they were discharged, a 60 amp converter would take 4 hr.

 

The first choice you need to make is what type of batteries, flooded cell (lead acid), AGM (absorbed glass mat) or Lithium. The solar panels will work with any battery but all the controllers and regulators are based on what type of battery. Modern systems will normally work with a flooded cell or AGM battery, but not a lithium. A lithium control system will not work with flooded cell or AGM. 

 

So chose your battery. Then everything else falls into place.

 

Just for giggles here is a monkey wrench for your battery choices...https://batteryevo.com/

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So in terms of battery people keep recommending me Battle Born....

But in terms of price i wanna cop this one though... amazon version

 

and in terms of an inverter generator Champion generator

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If you haven't already, be sure to keep reading about lithium batteries and be sure you purchase the proper components to maximize its life. You want to do it right if your going to make the investment. I see both batteries have a built in BMS but neither have low temp charging protection.

 

That looks like a nice generator and will have plenty of power. The weight of the unit will be something you will need to consider. Very heavy to be lifting in and out of the camper or onto a rack. 

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The generator is way too big and heavy. This is powerful enough to run an AC unit and you can still pick it up

Amazon.com: Generac GP2500i Inverter, Orange, Black : Everything Else

So why do you think you need lithium batteries. If you insist the Amazon version has twice the amp hours. Way better deal

Or or about half the price you could go with one of these

Deep Cycle AGM Battery 12 Volt 200Ah | Renogy Solar

 2 -6 volt golf cart batteries can be connected in series to make 12 volts and 220 amp hour ones will cost even less than the Renology battery. 

Linda S

Ah yes. Charging requirements for lithium batteries are quite stringent. Proper charging system is going to add to your total bill. Not good to have your RV exploding like lithium batteries are known to do

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If you think you need to take the house with you camping it's probably best to stay home.

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OK we'll start with what you think you want...

Lipo battery your choice 2x the price for the same capacity 200ah. Just make sure that the battery has a built in BMS, absolutely critical with Lipo4 batteries. Most of us are way to cheap to use LiPo4 batteries of any brand. An AGM battery is a good middle technology battery and some of us use them. NOTE flooded cell and AGM batteries recommended that for Max battery life you do not discharge below 50% of capacity.  A liPo4 battery can be safely be discharged to 95% of capacity. Thus a 200 ah AGM is really a 100 ah battery

 

Basic rule 1w of solar per 1 AH of battery. So you will need a minimum of 200w of solar. 300w would be better for a flat roof mount. NOTE a flat roof mount is about 30% less effective than an angled mount.

So you need Mono panels and an Mppt, Lipo safe controller. 

https://www.amazon.com/ExpertPower-Panels-Controller-Trailer-Projects/dp/B096LJNR99/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=300w+solar+kit+mppt&qid=1633218828&s=automotive&sr=1-6

Add another 100w panel if you want.

 

As others have said that's way to much generator. 125 lbs vs 40lbs for a Champion dual fuel 2500w generator. Your generator choice is NOT an inverter generator and will burn 2x the fuel and make 2x the noise.

https://www.amazon.com/Champion-Power-Equipment-200961-Ultralight/dp/B08L45W2V9/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=champion+generator&qid=1633219928&s=automotive&sr=1-1

 

Next you need a new converter for the 12v/lipo charging when your hooked up to shore power.

https://www.amazon.com/Progressive-Dynamics-PD9160ALV-Lithium-Center/dp/B07DP3X16F/ref=pb_allspark_dp_sims_pao_desktop_session_based_3/145-8204179-6959046?pd_rd_w=rsP15&pf_rd_p=e896123b-6614-49c5-873e-d532e726c2f0&pf_rd_r=Z0CHVG4H2E49JRFZBQGQ&pd_rd_r=c971baf7-1323-4c8a-ab13-63a381f20815&pd_rd_wg=vz3r9&pd_rd_i=B07DP3X16F&psc=1

 

A pure sine wave inverter.

https://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Inverter-Battery-Converter-Saving/dp/B07H9SXV61/ref=sr_1_4?crid=2MZ5ICM2YWL11&dchild=1&keywords=2000w+inverter+pure+sine+wave&qid=1633220787&s=automotive&sprefix=2000w+inverter%2Cautomotive%2C742&sr=1-4 

 

To prevent having to plug in and unplug your AC powered stuff while using the inverter, you can hard wire it through an ATS.

amazon.com/Technology-Research-41300-Transfer-Switch/dp/B00IYUPRUG/ref=sr_1_4?crid=1523J4KRFPDTU&dchild=1&keywords=30+amp+ats+transfer+switch&qid=1633224233&sprefix=30+amp+ATS%2Caps%2C644&sr=8-4

 

The 2500w generator will run this AC unit.
amazon.com/RecPro-Conditioner-Profile-Non-Ducted-Cooling/dp/B08QZSSN7Q/ref=sr_1_5?crid=1FTEHQGCAQSML&dchild=1&keywords=rv+ac+unit&qid=1633221487&s=automotive&sprefix=rv+ac%2Cautomotive%2C587&sr=1-5

 

We have already gone over your TV and computer needs

 

 

 

Edited by WME
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12 hours ago, Maineah said:

If you think you need to take the house with you camping it's probably best to stay home.

Good thing I'm not camping bud!

I plan on living full time in my dolphin.

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Well I'm in Maine that's kind of out of the question. Question how about dealing with freezing water and waste tanks? Can you sleep through blast furnace of a propane heater? 100# propane tank? I'm all done by mid October the first frost. Camper insolation at best is 1 1/2" thick.

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6 hours ago, Maineah said:

Well I'm in Maine that's kind of out of the question. Question how about dealing with freezing water and waste tanks? Can you sleep through blast furnace of a propane heater? 100# propane tank? I'm all done by mid October the first frost. Camper insolation at best is 1 1/2" thick.

Question... why stay in maine":?

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"The way life should be" and I have a house. I'm in the foot hills of the White Mt. -20 is fairly common in the winter. By first frost campers tend to get a bit chilly.

 

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