1980 dolphin - strange plumbing

[Ska]

Hey all, I hope you can help me with this. The way the plumbing is hooked up in my dolphin the toilet drains into the blackwater tank, however both the sinks and the shower drain past the tank to the outlet where the drain would connect to the hose (for draining). There is only one tank, which makes sense for such a small vehicle, but I would think all waste even gray water would drain into it. Is this normal? Is it legal? The plumbing seems like it's original but hard to tell.

Any help is appreciated!

[linda s]

Well I see the valve that shuts off the main tank.  Need more info. Floor plan, better pic of underneath. If there's no other tank does your shower fill up right away? Some older Dolphins with rear kitchen and rear bath had only one tank but with 2 separate compartments. Looks too low to get under to take pics but you could still stick your phone under so we can see better. 

Linda S

[fred heath]

My 1979 came with a gravity drain for the grey water. Back in the day I guess it was allowed by code. Pour some water into the shower pan and see if it exits outside through the pipe opening.

[Ska]

The floorplan has the rear kitchen and bathroom, I'll post some more pics later.

In the picture there the two pipes coming to the drain (outside the main valve) are piped from the kitchen sink, bathroom sink, and shower drain.

6 hours ago, fred heath said:

My 1979 came with a gravity drain for the grey water. Back in the day I guess it was allowed by code. Pour some water into the shower pan and see if it exits outside through the pipe opening.

Fred, did you end up using it this way or modifying it? I don't see that it would be widely accepted that my gray water just drains into the street...

[fred heath]

First off, determine if your grey water does in fact discharge directly onto the ground. Could there have been a grey water tank that was removed by a PO leaving just the plumbing? Linda’s idea of a double compartment black tank should also be investigated.

Im my case, I had only a kitchen sink to deal with. My unit is so small it had no bathroom from the factory. Knowing I was going to gut the entire inside (including the kitchen) I wasn’t concerned about grey water drainage.

With today’s concern about the environment, I’m sure you would have people screaming at you as soon as the water started flowing.

Hopefully there’s a tank somewhere there you just haven’t found. Good luck.

[Ska]

Thanks Fred. It is definitely leaking to the ground. As I was saying, the piping is running from the two sinks into the 2" pipe on the left and the shower drain to the pipe on the right (from picture above) which are connected past the main valve to the tank.

I will investigate the split tank idea, however, if it was split I'm not sure why the drains still do not lead to the tank then.

I'm considering dropping the tank to check out what's going on, anyone have experience with that? Do I have to disconnect the toilet ring to drop it and/or are there other things holding on the top? Looks like I just have a few straps holding it up from underneath, I'm just unsure of what's connecting it on the top.

 

[fred heath]

10 minutes ago, Ska said:

Thanks Fred. It is definitely leaking to the ground. As I was saying, the piping is running from the two sinks into the 2" pipe on the left and the shower drain to the pipe on the right (from picture above) which are connected past the main valve to the tank.

I will investigate the split tank idea, however, if it was split I'm not sure why the drains still do not lead to the tank then.

I'm considering dropping the tank to check out what's going on, anyone have experience with that? Do I have to disconnect the toilet ring to drop it and/or are there other things holding on the top? Looks like I just have a few straps holding it up from underneath, I'm just unsure of what's connecting it on the top.

 

It’s sounding like you may of had a grey water tank that was removed. Does the pvc pipe appear factory or perhaps extended after the grey tank was removed. Is there sufficient under coach area to install a grey tank? If yes, that’s your next logical step. Unfortunately there are not many of your vintage motorhomes left alive to look at and compare.

Linda is a great resource. I’m sure she’s researching this issue as we speak. 🙂

[Ska]

I feel like it must be aftermarket. Maybe somebody re-piped it to drain their grey water where they were and not have to drain the blackwater as often. This would make sense if they were at a park solely.

Here's a few more pics,

First of the shower drain

second and third of the sink drain pipe

Last of the tank itself which stretches the width of the camper

 

I can't quite get a good picture but the pipe from the kitchen sink comes from above the tank and over to meet up with the bathroom sink drain.

[Ska]

Here's some pics of the interior layout and plumbing

 

Excuse the mess, I'm towards the end of the extensive tear down and rebuild of the interior (I'll post a new thread soon of that process 😅)

[Ska]

Also, on top of the tank is an extra inlet, so maybe that's where these other pipes used to go.

[linda s]

I'm afraid I'm not going to be of much help this time. I can see no easy way to repair the mess someone made and it does look like they did this fiasco a long time ago. The brochure Derek posted for your camper says it has a 22 gallon black tank and a 16 gallon fresh water tank. I do think that your tank is one of those double section ones. I never did figure out how those drained and keep the grey and black separate. If you want your grey to go in a tank a complete re-piping is required and you would have to use that extra top hole in the tank. 

I should also tell you that most state and federal parks do not allow any drains to go directly on the ground. My daughter restored a very old trailer and it didn't have a grey tank either. Ranger told her she had to leave. We managed to find a site with hookups and she used my drain hose to connect it so we could continue our vacation. 

Linda S

[linda s]

Found a picture of what I think your tank looks like . This is upside down so holes at the bottom are really the inlet holes from sink, shower and toilet. 

[Ska]

Thanks Linda,

That is sort of what mine looks like, the divider is there so it can fit under the steel frame of the camper/truck. At the bottom there is no divider however.

The 22 gallon blackwater tank seems right (it looks about that size) and yes I do have a separate 16 gallon freshwater holding tank.

I think I'll drop the tank and get in there and plumb it back to the inlet on the top, shouldn't be too difficult a job, especially after gutting the whole thing, reframing the roof, and building it back out! 😅

[linda s]

If you have a freshwater tank plumb the grey water to that. I thought you didn't have one. 

Linda S

[Ska]

Oh, I meant freshwater as in drinking/washing water. I do not have a second grey water tank.

Sorry for the confusion!

[linda s]

Yeah that threw me. You can see the holes for the toilet  sink and shower. I'm betting there's another one farther over for the kitchen sink. When you drop the tank you'll know. By the way these drains are all sealed with rubber gaskets that lock into the tank like this

Amazon.com: ICON 12483 Holding Tank Fitting - 1-1/2" Rubber Grommet: Automotive

This size is for grey water from sinks and such.

For the toilet you will need a 3 inch one. Down pipes from fixtures just push into these. 

Linda S

[Ska]

Great, thanks for the link!

I'll update with my findings when I get the tank dropped 🙂

[Ska]

Finally getting around to posting my findings! (On the road now so I haven't had much time for internet usage)

So I dropped the tank, and ended up replacing most of the plumbing to make it back to stock. When I dropped the tank I realized that the 40+ year old tank had cracked, and was on the verge of cracking more all around so I bought some fiberglass repair fabric and resin and went over the whole thing (see pics). I figured it was out of the question to find a replacement for this specific tank that sits how it does around the frame (it was originally made by inca plastics and they don't make them anymore, no surprise).

The metal straps that were holding the tank were actually damaging it, causing cracking, so I went ahead and cut those and replaced them with ratchet straps. That and I added some foam insulation to protect it more. So with the straps I was actually able to put in place by myself! Using the grommets Linda suggested everything lined up nicely. The toilet had a thread and not a grommet, fyi for anyone else doing a repair on similar model, so it had to be unscrewed before dropping, then lined up and installed last after the tank was in place.

So, almost 3000 miles on the road and so far all repairs and the strapping has held up!

Eventually I'll get around to documenting all the other repairs and refurbishing I've done...

Edited May 11, 2021 by Ska

[thewanderlustking]

Very nicely executed repair!  GOOD JOB!!!  I need to do repairs to mine too... I really like the idea of backing up the repair with fiberglass.  

 

 

[Ska]

Thank you!

Yeah, I imagine there are many of these holding tanks that are failing or on the verge of it. The fiberglass kits aren't fun to work with, but it does the job! Not too expensive either, I think I spent $30 on the fiberglass resin and fabric and brushes, $10 on the foam, and $5 on the straps. I went ahead and replaced the valve while I was at it too.