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1985 Escaper rear suspension overhaul tips, tricks, and questions


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I would say the same thing, but unless you’re familiar with metalworking, it may be more of a hazard to risk grinding into the frame and creating a stress riser.

these frames flex a lot, and I wouldn’t feel comfortable with a knick or gouge in mine I know.

 

Maybe leave some of the welds and clean it up later, if you do decide to remove that tacked on steel tube, or just leave them.

They shouldn’t have welded on a frame anyways!

 

How much do the airbags in that 7113 or whatever kit really expand in the radial dimension? Do you even need the extra space? I have watched those types of airbags on semi trucks and they seem to maintain a constant diameter.

Might be better off cutting down the spring brackets in the kit and making new mounting holes if they don’t expand outward.

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4 minutes ago, Ssunrader said:

I would say the same thing, but unless you’re familiar with metalworking, it may be more of a hazard to risk grinding into the frame and creating a stress riser.

these frames flex a lot, and I wouldn’t feel comfortable with a knick or gouge in mine I know.

 

Maybe leave some of the welds and clean it up later, if you do decide to remove that tacked on steel tube, or just leave them.

They shouldn’t have welded on a frame anyways!

 

How much do the airbags in that 7113 or whatever kit really expand in the radial dimension? Do you even need the extra space? I have watched those types of airbags on semi trucks and they seem to maintain a constant diameter.

Might be better off cutting down the spring brackets in the kit and making new mounting holes if they don’t expand outward.

He’ll do fine. He managed to change his entire axle assembly with no prior drivetrain experience.

 

It would take extreme effort to damage the frame rails. Even a slight nick will not affect its structural strength.

 

Grinder with a cut off wheel is the way to go.

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“It would take extreme effort to damage the frame rails.

 

Not so sure about that, have seen otherwise.

 

Myself, I would just make a 45 degree angle cut in those tacked on pieces and not go near the surface of the frame. An angle cut but leave a 1/4” of the straight part where it is closest to the frame.  
 

_______/        \________

 

The Air Lift company says that there should be a minimum 1/2” of clearance around the rubber springs when inflated to 75 psi. Looks like that wasn’t as much of a problem from the pictures.

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What about when I have to drill holes into the frame for the bolts to hold the bracket, can that compromise the integrity of the frame?

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5 minutes ago, Ssunrader said:

“It would take extreme effort to damage the frame rails.

 

Not so sure about that, have seen otherwise.

 

Myself, I would just make a 45 degree angle cut in those tacked on pieces and not go near the surface of the frame. An angle cut but leave a 1/4” of the straight part where it is closest to the frame.  
 

_______/        \________

 

The Air Lift company says that there should be a minimum 1/2” of clearance around the rubber springs when inflated to 75 psi. Looks like that wasn’t as much of a problem from the pictures.

Well you obviously have limited knowledge of frame and suspension components.

 

I normally don’t criticize other members posts. I don’t know the extent of your mechanical background but I will say your shackle extension as shown in your photo is an accident waiting to happen.

 

You don’t need to take my word. Show that picture (your shackle setup) to any mechanic that works on drivetrains. You’ve effectively transferred all linear and compression forces onto a single shackle eye bolt. Shackles need to be as close to the spring eye as possible to work as intended. Extended shackles should have a mid position reinforcement to avoid unnecessary flexing. Using a bunch of stacked washers is not a good thing.

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4 minutes ago, hamkid said:

What about when I have to drill holes into the frame for the bolts to hold the bracket, can that compromise the integrity of the frame?

The bolts will fill the holes just fine. Keep doing what you’re doing.

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The air lift suspension bag expands outward like a squished balloon when compressed. Be sure to make space to accommodate that expansion including room to accommodate full unexpected deflation due to valve failure in the event that were to occur. 

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On 2/28/2023 at 6:44 PM, fred heath said:

Well you obviously have limited knowledge of frame and suspension components.

 

I normally don’t criticize other members posts. I don’t know the extent of your mechanical background but I will say your shackle extension as shown in your photo is an accident waiting to happen.

 

You don’t need to take my word. Show that picture (your shackle setup) to any mechanic that works on drivetrains. You’ve effectively transferred all linear and compression forces onto a single shackle eye bolt. Shackles need to be as close to the spring eye as possible to work as intended. Extended shackles should have a mid position reinforcement to avoid unnecessary flexing. Using a bunch of stacked washers is not a good thing.

Oh, well I suppose that’s a reasonable response after having seen the picture of my shackles before, and reading my amazement at how (poorly made) the original ones were. That picture was taken during the initial assembly where I was verifying angles that will effect the action of the spring/shackle arrangement, since the bushings were trashed prior to that and the positioning of the various parts within the assembly were different.

The extended shackles provide a more progressive rate than the original setup with the different (Sunrader installed) geometry that they provide, that is the only real benefit that I could see from the change from oem Toyota geometry.

 

Nice job trying to dodge what was said earlier, you’re not getting off that easy.

Now what if the OP was a trained concert pianist and had great skill and talent, yet had no experience with metalworking?

Picture a situational where, upon your advice, one went and got a 4” grinder, and went to town on that frame, then when the harbor freight goggles fogged up while working in an awkward position and oops, there’s a notch in the frame now.

Oh, and it would be in a place that would be a fulcrum point very near where the air bags would be mounted…

 

What I would recommend to you is to not assume things about people you couldn’t possibly know.


I am not going to describe my background on the internet, to you, but trust me, I am doing just fine, also those washers are just fine too! The 14,000 pounds of pull up from the fasteners that are at 80% of their proof strength are keeping them in place pretty well.

 

 

 

 

A75A19C4-A0B8-4C1D-BDE6-84CF96E7C26C.jpeg

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6 hours ago, Ssunrader said:

Oh, well I suppose that’s a reasonable response after having seen the picture of my shackles before, and reading my amazement at how (poorly made) the original ones were. That picture was taken during the initial assembly where I was verifying angles that will effect the action of the spring/shackle arrangement, since the bushings were trashed prior to that and the positioning of the various parts within the assembly were different.

The extended shackles provide a more progressive rate than the original setup with the different (Sunrader installed) geometry that they provide, that is the only real benefit that I could see from the change from oem Toyota geometry.

 

Nice job trying to dodge what was said earlier, you’re not getting off that easy.

Now what if the OP was a trained concert pianist and had great skill and talent, yet had no experience with metalworking?

Picture a situational where, upon your advice, one went and got a 4” grinder, and went to town on that frame, then when the harbor freight goggles fogged up while working in an awkward position and oops, there’s a notch in the frame now.

Oh, and it would be in a place that would be a fulcrum point very near where the air bags would be mounted…

 

What I would recommend to you is to not assume things about people you couldn’t possibly know.


I am not going to describe my background on the internet, to you, but trust me, I am doing just fine, also those washers are just fine too! The 14,000 pounds of pull up from the fasteners that are at 80% of their proof strength are keeping them in place pretty well.

 

 

 

 

A75A19C4-A0B8-4C1D-BDE6-84CF96E7C26C.jpeg

My apologies. I saw your before picture and thought it was your finished product. The before picture was really scary.

Your setup looks similar to mine.

 

 

B33BD904-988E-49C5-86C5-E64666C7692B.jpeg

ED8B13DA-873D-48F2-9F15-806FF7EF6DBC.jpeg

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2 hours ago, hamkid said:

Fellas, fellas please. Wtf should I do? 😆

So far you’ve done fine. Too many cooks can spoil a recipe. I’m removing myself from this thread. Feel free to pm me if you want. Fred

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Are there inside bolts on that thing in front of the axle? I think that was the mounting bracket for your T9 springs. Maybe not welded to the frame but just rusted to the frame. 

Watch the video I posted carefully. He removes extra brackets on the frame by going all around the edge with an electric file. 40 bucks at Harbor Freight. 

Also watch where he first cuts through the frame with the Sawzall. Goes through easily and that's a newer truck with stronger steel than they used in the 80's. The rear thing that's in the way is just frame extension and that's regular box framing material. 

If it's all too much you could return them and get some other springs that mount n the springs like the T9. Less weight capacity but they would help some. These go from side of frame to leaf springs just like the T9 did. Don't know if the existing T9 bracket will be in the way

Air Lift 59502 Ride Control Air Helper Springs for Toyota Pickup 2wd 69-95 (sdtrucksprings.com)

Linda S

 

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Possibly over thinking the problem...🤔 You installed OME springs, have you bolted in the rear axle and set the truck on the ground ??

Did you use OME overloads??

The OEM airbags were a crutch to help the springs. The OME are stiffer than the originals ever were.

 

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On 3/5/2023 at 8:19 PM, WME said:

Possibly over thinking the problem...🤔 You installed OME springs, have you bolted in the rear axle and set the truck on the ground ??

Did you use OME overloads??

The OEM airbags were a crutch to help the springs. The OME are stiffer than the originals ever were.

 


I have not set the truck on the ground. What are oem overloads? Are you saying since they are stiffer why bother with airbags? I have until March 17 to return.

Edited by hamkid
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An overload is an extra leaf that makes the spring stiffer and will raise the ride height.

Check with ARB  about what's available and how much it will raise things.

BUT first get it on the ground and get a reference point.

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Return the bags, finish installing your axle and see how it rides. Those Old Man Emu

springs might be enough. You've already put in so much work. Lets get this puppy rolling. 

You can always decide later if it needs more. 

Linda S

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I'm glad to see this thread continue. I've done the OME spring replacement and also Swayaway torsion bars. Every aspect of my steering and suspension is new. I have a ton of wind sway and I hate it. I'd like to put airbags in to hopefully reduce that. I have the same 1984 chassis hamkid does. Why not make the airbags work?

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Can you take a pic of your rear frame over the axle so we can compare it to Hamkids. Would really like to know why his looks like that. As far as wind sway I have airbags but I also have a rear sway bar. When I was suddenly all over the road on a windy mountain road the air bags weren't much help. My sway bar had come loose. Night and day difference in the handling. I check it regularly now.

Linda S

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I think I better understand what is going on. Hamkid and I have 1984 Pickups re-titled as 1985 Escapers. Why this matters is it seems like those are the only ones where the RV company cut and welded like this. Mine looks exactly the same as Hamkids. I am going to cut at a 45 degree angle away from the area where the bag will go, and then box the area with some plate steel. I've spoken with an experienced welder about this and he's comfortable with the plan. Not to cut away enough to really weaken the frame, and also not to weld in a way that damages the integrity of the steel.

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I just don’t want to get into this job more than I already have. I’m gonna return the airbags, set the truck and see how it rides. If I’m not happy I will add the overloads like WME suggested, and if that’s still not enough I will go for the Ride Control air bags or something that is closer to the size of the T-9. I’ve done a lot to this truck so far and I don’t want to go down the road of metal work. I appreciate all the input everyone had included on this job and this site. Thanks to all y’all!

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👍👍

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  • 2 months later...

wow . nice and clean.  you planning on a anti sway bar?

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Sway bar, anti sway bar, anti roll bar, many names. It makes the rear more stable in cross winds AND gives your rig more sporty handling😂

Here is what one looks like...https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aco-k1-382-0u/make/toyota/year/1985

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