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1980 “foolies” rear axle replacement


Truman K

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I am trying to find out more info on replacing my rear axle for my 1980 dolphin.

 

would buying a rear axle from a model without the recall be acceptable fit? And what about the tag axle? Would anything have to be done with that or just the dually? 
 

if not what axle would be recommended to replace the recalled axle 

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OK this is one of those wild eyed, left field ideas 🤪. Run a single wheel on the Toyota Axle and beef up the tag axle.

The factory tag axles added about 250 lbs of weight and 500lbs of capacity. They used a twisted coil spring

There is a modern design axle that will carry 2000lbs and weight less. Its called a Torsion axle. If your current tag has brakes, these folks can add brakes to the Torsion axle and will build custom lengths.

https://www.southwestwheel.com/c-26-torsion-axles.aspx

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5 minutes ago, WME said:

OK this is one of those wild eyed, left field ideas 🤪. Run a single wheel on the Toyota Axle and beef up the tag axle.

The factory tag axles added about 250 lbs of weight and 500lbs of capacity. They used a twisted coil spring

There is a modern design axle that will carry 2000lbs and weight less. Its called a Torsion axle. If your current tag has brakes, these folks can add brakes to the Torsion axle and will build custom lengths.

https://www.southwestwheel.com/c-26-torsion-axles.aspx

So if I’m understanding you correctly, keep the foolie axle, but only use one tire? Then add the torsion axle to the tag axle for more weight capacity? 

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Yes, Replace your tag axle with a high capacity Torsion axle and run single tire  on the foolie axle.

No idea if your frame is strong enough

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Yes, 5 lug front and rear.

The big picture is that when you run a single on the stock axle the rig gets a bit more tippy due to the reduced tread. So the torsion axle will be wide enough

to replicate the width of the fake duelies and restore the stability. The extra carry capacity of the torsion axle will allow you to run the LT184/14 that the true 1 tons run.

Your rig will look a bit goofy with the different treads on the two rear axles. Of course running a true 1 ton axle with proper duelies will look just as goofy in the double wide wheel wells.

This is a serious change and it is going to require a lot of study and more than a couple of emails

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49 minutes ago, WME said:

Yes, 5 lug front and rear.

The big picture is that when you run a single on the stock axle the rig gets a bit more tippy due to the reduced tread. So the torsion axle will be wide enough

to replicate the width of the fake duelies and restore the stability. The extra carry capacity of the torsion axle will allow you to run the LT184/14 that the true 1 tons run.

Your rig will look a bit goofy with the different treads on the two rear axles. Of course running a true 1 ton axle with proper duelies will look just as goofy in the double wide wheel wells.

This is a serious change and it is going to require a lot of study and more than a couple of emails

Thanks for the advice and heads up! I will definitely consider this. Are you familiar with what type of axle would replace the foolie one? I just need to know what I’m looking for in order to find it.

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Ok. If you’re going to change to single wheels on your drive axle first thing to do is measure the width (track) of the foolie axle (outside tire to outside tire). 

If it’s 74-75” wide an early GM truck axle will work. Or any truck axle with the same width measurement. You want to have 4.10 gears (same as your current axle). The GM 14 bolt ff axle is geared at 4.10. This is what I used to replace my foolie axle with. You don’t really need a ff axle with the tag setup. But you want to try and find one with the 4.10 gears.

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3 minutes ago, fred heath said:

Ok. If you’re going to change to single wheels on your drive axle first thing to do is measure the width (track) of the foolie axle (outside tire to outside tire). 

If it’s 74-75” wide an early GM truck axle will work. Or any truck axle with the same width measurement. You want to have 4.10 gears (same as your current axle). The GM 14 bolt ff axle is geared at 4.10. This is what I used to replace my foolie axle with. You don’t really need a ff axle with the tag setup. But you want to try and find one with the 4.10 gears.

So would I still need to replace the tag axle with a torsion axle? Is it ok to change from dually to single with the tag axle? 

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Tag axle can stay as is. This swap can get expensive depending on your mechanical skills. It requires welding and metal fabrication. You can keep your existing leaf springs.

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This is not a mix and match situation, You need a plan and update accordingly.

1. Replace both rear axles with a single Toyota 1 ton with duelies.

2 Run your current axle as a single with a updated tag axle

3. Replace the factory axle with a wider HD axle and run a larger tire with the correct weight capacity. Your current tag axle could be used or replaced

 

I left a link in my first post to a company that builds custom torsion axles

 

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First thing to do is weigh the home on a commercial truck scale. Get the total weight and weight over the rear axle (rear half) of the home. This will help to determine what axle setup you can use. A picture of your rig will help.

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2 hours ago, fred heath said:

First thing to do is weigh the home on a commercial truck scale. Get the total weight and weight over the rear axle (rear half) of the home. This will help to determine what axle setup you can use. A picture of your rig will help.

Thanks! I will post a picture tomorrow when I’m at the shop, and look into having it weighed. I am pretty well connected as far as mechanics go, so I trust as long as I find the right axle I can either do the work myself or find someone to help me. The plan is to live in it, so cost isn’t a concern. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2/8/2021 at 6:34 PM, fred heath said:

First thing to do is weigh the home on a commercial truck scale. Get the total weight and weight over the rear axle (rear half) of the home. This will help to determine what axle setup you can use. A picture of your rig will help.

 

19042DE7-4E82-413F-98C3-FC3269D23547.jpeg

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Man that photo causes the creative juices to start flowing. I suggested a wild eyed idea of a new stronger tag. So now here's a wilder idea get a true Toyota 1 ton or other HD brand. Ditch both axles and install the 1 ton with duals in place of the tag axle. You would need to move the spring hangers and remount the shackles.

You would also need a longer rear driveshaft.

The extra long WB would greatly smooth out the ride.

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6 hours ago, WME said:

Man that photo causes the creative juices to start flowing. I suggested a wild eyed idea of a new stronger tag. So now here's a wilder idea get a true Toyota 1 ton or other HD brand. Ditch both axles and install the 1 ton with duals in place of the tag axle. You would need to move the spring hangers and remount the shackles.

You would also need a longer rear driveshaft.

The extra long WB would greatly smooth out the ride.

Only problem with that is you now have 2 large empty holes where the original axle was installed. I also wonder if the frame would have the necessary notch to allow the new axle location to move freely.

Edited by fred heath
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7 hours ago, Truman K said:

 

19042DE7-4E82-413F-98C3-FC3269D23547.jpeg

OK. Weight is the next thing. Judging from the picture I don’t think you’ll be able to get away with singles on the drive axle. The rear half of the home weight has to be less than 4K lbs to run singles.

I’ve never seen how the tag axles were installed. Take some pictures of the tag axle and how it attaches to the frame. Your tag axle setup is fairly rare. Not a lot of information out there.

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The first of my wild eyed ideas is the simplest and probably the easiest. The tag axle was a factory kludge job. It also showed on the bigger Class C and Class A rigs of the early 80's. So what ever you do your going to be re-kludging a kluge job. Putting a 1 ton axle where the current drive axle is would work, doing that and  removing removing the tag would cause the front axle to go light because of the added leverage of the rear weight.

The tag setups I've seen used a coil spring in the torsion mode.  The Torsion axle uses a rubber spring as the medium and has a torque arm set up and will clear the frame with no problems

Edited by WME
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6 hours ago, fred heath said:

OK. Weight is the next thing. Judging from the picture I don’t think you’ll be able to get away with singles on the drive axle. The rear half of the home weight has to be less than 4K lbs to run singles.

I’ve never seen how the tag axles were installed. Take some pictures of the tag axle and how it attaches to the frame. Your tag axle setup is fairly rare. Not a lot of information out there.

16B9FB01-9E37-43DF-AAEA-8D0908A7940E.jpeg.c9fb9c89b5a571d5e11acab018adb288.jpeg

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That’s pretty kool. The tag axle looks good. Plenty of weight carrying capacity. Weigh the entire rig, then the back half only. Post your findings.

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15 hours ago, fred heath said:

OK. Weight is the next thing. Judging from the picture I don’t think you’ll be able to get away with singles on the drive axle. The rear half of the home weight has to be less than 4K lbs to run singles.

I’ve never seen how the tag axles were installed. Take some pictures of the tag axle and how it attaches to the frame. Your tag axle setup is fairly rare. Not a lot of information out there.

 

67EC48EF-3C87-4597-8EE8-DFDBADDAC42A.jpeg

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That doesn't look very "attached". I know its major humbug, but can you jack up one side and remove the rear tires so we can get an idea of the total rear suspension.

The 2 photos you posted look very sketchy.

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On 2/21/2021 at 12:44 AM, WME said:

That doesn't look very "attached". I know its major humbug, but can you jack up one side and remove the rear tires so we can get an idea of the total rear suspension.

The 2 photos you posted look very sketchy.

Here’s some more pictures without wheel off, I will post some tomorrow when I get back to my shop 

58B95732-9977-458F-8F6E-8613D3EED969.jpeg

491BC4BA-D172-49C6-B40D-91ADB74CABCC.jpeg

70CBFE62-5318-4CDA-B1AD-DF84ABC1EE37.jpeg

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That is bizarre. The leaf spring to the tag axle isn't used as a spring, but as a control arm. The short yellow shock by the air spring where does it go?? Looks like the upper mount is the rusty hole in the frame.

I don't see anything that is acting as a panhard rod

Edited by WME
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4 hours ago, Truman K said:

Here’s some more pictures without wheel off, I will post some tomorrow when I get back to my shop 

58B95732-9977-458F-8F6E-8613D3EED969.jpeg

491BC4BA-D172-49C6-B40D-91ADB74CABCC.jpeg

70CBFE62-5318-4CDA-B1AD-DF84ABC1EE37.jpeg

That’s a neat setup. The axle looks plenty strong. I was expecting something like a half axle setup. I’m curious as to the function of the yellow shocks.

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Yea the axle looks strong,but its the mounting that's the problem. If you look at the spring clamp u bolts you can see where one is rubbing against the brackets and that its moving sideways. An axle moving sideways going around corners is not a good plan.

The problems I see from the photos are, that the tag axle is setup with a quarter elliptic spring that is designed/mounted wrong, The mechanical problems are broken airbag, broken shock mount. These last 2 are relatively easy to fix. Are there brakes on the tag, if yes what kind, electric or hydraulic? 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 2/24/2021 at 11:15 AM, WME said:

Yea the axle looks strong,but its the mounting that's the problem. If you look at the spring clamp u bolts you can see where one is rubbing against the brackets and that its moving sideways. An axle moving sideways going around corners is not a good plan.

The problems I see from the photos are, that the tag axle is setup with a quarter elliptic spring that is designed/mounted wrong, The mechanical problems are broken airbag, broken shock mount. These last 2 are relatively easy to fix. Are there brakes on the tag, if yes what kind, electric or hydraulic? 

 

 

On 2/20/2021 at 6:08 AM, fred heath said:

OK. Weight is the next thing. Judging from the picture I don’t think you’ll be able to get away with singles on the drive axle. The rear half of the home weight has to be less than 4K lbs to run singles.

I’ve never seen how the tag axles were installed. Take some pictures of the tag axle and how it attaches to the frame. Your tag axle setup is fairly rare. Not a lot of information out there.

What rear axle assembly should I be looking for? I know it must be a 4.10, Ive read gm 14 bolts or Dana 70 but not sure exactly what I’m looking for 

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6 hours ago, Truman K said:

 

What rear axle assembly should I be looking for? I know it must be a 4.10, Ive read gm 14 bolts or Dana 70 but not sure exactly what I’m looking for 

Early GM truck axle should work. My 14 bolt came from a 1979 GM 1 ton. Factory 4.10 gears. This will work for single tire application. Early axles had smaller size brake drums than later manufacture. Allows for a 15” wheel to fit over drum. Later need 16” which can limit tire selection. If your foolie measures 74-75” from outside tire to outside tire it will work. I have a build thread here somewhere.

As far as your tag axle I’d leave it in place. It’s worked for over 40 years with no problems, doubt it will start acting up now.

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