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So I just bought a 1985 Toyota Escaper with a 4 cylinder 22RE and 100k miles on it. I was able to drive about 150 mi from the sellers house to a pit stop at my parents with no problems and almost no oil burnt. There is no plume of smoke that comes from the tail pipe only the smell of oil being burnt. The next day I had to drive 240 mi to get the RV back to my house. I stopped and checked the oil 15 mi into my 240 mi trip and it was still at a decent level. I avoided major highways and only went 55 mph max. With only 23 miles left in my trip the engine started to make an awful sound as I was pulling into the gas station and the dip stick did not register and oil. I had to put in nearly 3 quarts for it to be at an operable level again. There were never any visible leaks on the sellers driveway or my parents. How is it possible for it to be burning this much oil? It’s currently in the shop and once I get a new fuel pump put in (which gave out on the trip) the mechanic is going to do a compression and leak down test. The vehicle also has every piece of paper documenting all service from 1985-2009 and has been in one family. Original owners gave it to their daughter in 2009. Only 10k miles were put on it since 2009. I really thought I was getting a well taken care of vehicle. 

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Edited by TSUBulldog12
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Oh man, I hope you get a good outcome - and I don't think you have enough evidence to call yourself an idiot - you went several hundred miles before something happened, something's odd on this.  I would have likely bought it too, and I do know something about engines.   
 

I don't have suggestions - you're doing the right thing in the compression check & leak-down test - and usually these engines are reliable enough that the oil checks you did, are really pretty darn good.   ....I think you got unlucky, but it's too soon to make a verdict that the engine's got serious damage.  A blown seal after not much use for several years, something like that, would explain the circumstances & this could be a less expensive fix - of course could be a more expensive fix - but I would likely have bought this too. 
 

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you - hope it's a few hundred bucks & not something catastrophic.  Hope you have a mechanic you trust & that will charge you reasonable rates. 
 

Good luck!

Edited by tstockma
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Thanks for the encouragement! The shop working on it has been used by my gfs family for generations so I think they’ll do a good job. Could you shed some light on what the compression ratings mean/ what’s good what’s bad? The test hasn’t been done I’d just like to be able to talk to the mechanic and understand him better.

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Toyota 22re compression, 10 cranks, WOT - 142-178 psi, maximum variation between high and low cylinders 14 psi.

 

Leak down check (blow down check) is read as a %. 1-10% very good, 10-20% so so, over 20% Not Good.

 

Quick check. rub your finger around the inside of the exhaust pipe. Oily not good, dry carbon OK. Check the coolant see if there is oil in it. The spark plugs will be a tell if its burning oil or leaking it.

Causes of leaks-front seal, bad PCV valve, Cam cover half moons F&R, cam cover gasket, oil filter, idiot light sender, lose oil filler cap .  Most of these will show up on the bottom of the engine.

Of course you may just have worn out, abused engine. Overheating is a major cause of problems with this few miles on it.

Good luck, keep us posted and tell us the actual numbers

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WME's numbers are great on providing details.   A bit more on the meanings:

 

Compression measures how effectively pressure is being held in during the cylinder & piston operation.  Compression check is measuring PSI (pounds per square inch), a basic check of core engine health.  Of course if it comes in low, it can be due to a number of causes, some fairly pricey, some catastrophic.  Not only should compression be in a healthy range, all cylinders should be fairly close to each other, one being much lower than others indicates something's going or gone south.  WME's numbers above give you those figures.

Background details on compression:  pressure's created each time the piston goes up & down on the "compression stroke" - every other time that piston goes up (aka every other up-stroke), it's compressing the air/fuel mixture, readying it for the spark plug to fire & ignite.  If your compression is poor, something's leaking (piston rings, head gasket, valves, or actual damage to cylinder head or engine block).   Compression measurements are a great way to measure bad wear, or some malfunction.

 

A leakdown test is a further check of health, including head gasket health.  It puts a certain amount of pressure into each cylinder, then the mechanic lets it sit usually overnight.  A great engine won't lose much pressure at all, neither my engine nor yours would be expected to show up as great.  Acceptable results mean there's some leakage, not too much.  An engine with good results on the compression check can still have excessive leakdown, indicating pressure's got a "slow leak" & that's still a serious issue, even though basic compression seems good.  Bad results even with good compression check, still don't tell you what's wrong, but it gives a bit of direction to the mechanic (usually got to pull heads, though a crafty mechanic sometimes can narrow down possibilities based on compression check AND leakdown results).

 

Hopefully the above gives you enough to have some idea what those mean.   Like WME says, let us know what you find out.   We'll celebrate or commiserate with ya, and he & the other experts might have a few tips & some advice as this unfolds.

 

BTW as I've thought about this, I'm realizing the very few miles between ''09 and today, is likely a key factor in the troubles.  A long period of little use is actually kinda bad on engines.  WME listed "causes of leaks" & any of those would seem OK, then can suddenly give out after not running in a long time.  Hopefully it's one of those - and these engines are resilient, running on low oil pressure for a bit doesn't kil them immediately, & you might be OK.  Or - well - or not, you'll find out.

...Hey I hit the road in a few hours for a long weekend, so I won't see or reply anytime soon, but I'm be looking to see how you do.  Luck!

 

Tom

Edited by tstockma
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22RE's are famous for front crank seals leaks and are hard to spot. The engine oil pump is directly behind the seal and subject to leaks also..

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BTW....jumping ahead & assuming this engine comes through without rebuild...  The "new owner checklist" post is pretty darned good.   It's in this same "Engines - Transmissions - etc" forum as your post.

 

I have 2 supplemental comments to that discussion.  These apply to actions your mechanic is about to take.
- I myself highly recommend Mobil1 High Mileage synthetic, it's got the famed "ZDDP" additive which keep these engines happy & that oil is really good at keeping seals working - but once you start using it, do not switch to anything else, the seals can then dry up without the specific additives in this oil.  Especially good for your engine which sat all those years without being used.
- I also highly recommend you change (or pay to have changed) the ATF (automatic transmission fluid) but DO NOT "drop pan & clean screen", instead drain thru the drain hole, refill, drive 100-100 miles, repeat, drive 500-1000 miles, repeat.  This is the kinder, gentler way to flush out, hopefully without loosening crud in a way that clogs something up & ruins the tranny.  (Plenty of good brands out there, I particularly like "Valvoline Maxlife Hi Mileage ATF").

 

Your photos looks fabulous, esp interior - but your RV's systems (just like your engine) sat for 11 years & seals etc dry up.  Do a good check for safety on all gas appliances including generator, furnace, water heater, etc.

 

Keeping my fingers crossed for ya....welcome to the club of aging Toyota RV owners!

 

Edited by tstockma
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A leak down test is an active test. It uses a special set of gauges. You set the piston/cylinder to be tested at TDC compression and install an air hose spark

plug adapter. You hook the leak down gauge up to an air  compressor and calibrate it to 0. You then connect the output hose of the gauge to the cylinder adapter.

With the gauge calibrated any air that leaks out of the cylinder will lower the gauge reading. The gauge is marked in %.

I do hot rods so I'm fussy about my leak down checks. The % I listed on my original post are my personal limits (I'm unhappy with more than 10%) and may be a bit harsh for basic put put engines.

If the actual numbers from the compression check and the leak down check are posted, I can "help" interpret them

Edited by WME
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Okay thanks everyone I already feel like a much more informed customer and I just called the shop to get a quote on the compression and leak down test. I’m hoping it can be done the same day (Monday) the new fuel pump is going in. The mechanic told me yesterday he is clearing the day to only work on my Toyota. Once I get the numbers I’ll upload the information here too. 

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2 hours ago, tstockma said:

BTW....jumping ahead & assuming this engine comes through without rebuild...  The "new owner checklist" post is pretty darned good.   It's in this same "Engines - Transmissions - etc" forum as your post.

 

I have 2 supplemental comments to that discussion.  These apply to actions your mechanic is about to take.
- I myself highly recommend Mobil1 High Mileage synthetic, it's got the famed "ZDDP" additive which keep these engines happy & that oil is really good at keeping seals working - but once you start using it, do not switch to anything else, the seals can then dry up without the specific additives in this oil.  Especially good for your engine which sat all those years without being used.
- I also highly recommend you change (or pay to have changed) the ATF (automatic transmission fluid) but DO NOT "drop pan & clean screen", instead drain thru the drain hole, refill, drive 100-100 miles, repeat, drive 500-1000 miles, repeat.  This is the kinder, gentler way to flush out, hopefully without loosening crud in a way that clogs something up & ruins the tranny.  (Plenty of good brands out there, I particularly like "Valvoline Maxlife Hi Mileage ATF").

 

Your photos looks fabulous, esp interior - but your RV's systems (just like your engine) sat for 11 years & seals etc dry up.  Do a good check for safety on all gas appliances including generator, furnace, water heater, etc.

 

Keeping my fingers crossed for ya....welcome to the club of aging Toyota RV owners!

 

What weight of oil do you recommend? I saw a big debate going on in another post on this site about it and I currently have 10w-40

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1 hour ago, TSUBulldog12 said:

What weight of oil do you recommend? I saw a big debate going on in another post on this site about it and I currently have 10w-40

If I recall correctly, factory is 10-30, isn't that right?  Me asking that question reveals that I don't actually think it's a very important difference.  I think I currently have 10-30.  Once I reach retirement & hit the road for extended trips, likely it'll be 10-40 for long hauls across the desert southwest.  That Mobile1 High Mileage is great oil, these are highly durable engines, I'd rather get a line in the water than get caught up in that debate...

That said, if factory recommendation is 10-40, I will shift over to it.

Edited by tstockma
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That's a lot of oil you would notice smoke. They are tough engines 22RE's maybe needing a timing chain at 130-150 K I'm still betting on a front seal leak Like I said it's hard to see there is a ton of stiff in the way.

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Oh yea I forgot the rear main seal😁

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It looks to me like you got a very nice machine. The previous owner obviously cared for it very well. I am also an Escaper owner with the same layout though yours is in far better shape than mine to start. Everyone here who has purchased one of these within the last 10-15 years has had to iron out a number of issues with their motorhomes. Not uncommon for there to be numerous issues with motor, transmission, suspension, alignment, tires, and brakes before getting to the coach. Your coach appears in very good shape so you're halfway there. These machines are old and yours has been sitting which is hard on all rubber parts. Plan on investing quite a bit in ensuring the machine is safe if you are not mechanically inclined. I'd want to look at the brakes front and back closely after you get your motor running again. Good luck. 

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So I got the new fuel pump in finally and the compression test done. The mechanic said everything looked great and he just recommends an oil change since the oil looked really old and gross. and new spark plugs. They also cleaned out the gas tank because it was also gross. I asked them what was happening to the oil that I put in the engine if all I needed was an oil change and I didn’t really understand the answer. I also didn’t ask for the specific numbers on the compression test (I forgot). I’m getting the oil changed and then I’m going to seal the roof before I take it to a different mechanic in town. This place didn’t seem that interested in repairing my escaper since I brought it in over a week ago. As crazy as it sounds I think they might be telling me everything is great just so they don’t have to work on my RV. 

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Hmm.   They might not be too excited about this kind of work, but they might be giving you pretty good news.   I like what they are doing - thorough oil change, cleaning out the gas tank, new plugs - those are very good steps.  Now I'm a bit surprised they didn't find old hoses, fan belts, vacuum hoses to change out - if this rig was stored inside maybe, just maybe, they're all OK.  Or you might be right on, they're not interested in that kinda work. 

 

But you might not need to spend a couple thousand.

 

As you're pointing out, there's that little mystery of the disappearing oil.  There could be innocent explanations.  I'm going to get a bit technical here....the piston rings could have sat unused for so long that they  allowed oil to pass by, then as you ran that engine a while, they loosened & ungunked, so now they're sealing better.  Other mysterious things can happen like that.

 

I myself would probably test out what they're telling by driving that rig around on short trips, carry extra oil, be sure to check at regular intervals.  Keep a log with miles, oil levels, etc.  When you're at highway speed you also are running a lot higher engine RPM than around town, that's a big factor too.  It's all part of learning the quirks of a new (to you) & unusual vehicle.

 

Anyway that's my 2 cents worth - getting a second opinion,  a second shop to look at it certainly won't hurt a thing.  Just don't reveal too much about any doubts you have about the first shop's work, they might get the impression you're wanting to spend money before you'll feel satisfied!   Like I said, just my 2 cents worth.

 

Good luck, let us know!

Tom

 

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Figured out one fairly likely cause for your disappearing oil....it's been a while, but the same thing happened to me with an Outback....sudden mysterious disappearance of a couple quarts of oil in about 150 miles.   

 

When you have a car that is driven for several months only for short trips, the engine & oil doesn't fully heat up.  When that happens repeatedly, water naturally condenses internally in the engine, ending up in the engine oil and over time, you can easily get several quarts of water in your engine.  Then as soon as you take one trip of 2-3 hours, viola - water evaporates & your oil is a few quarts low.  That's an important reason why experts say short-distance commuters should change their oil more frequently, & recommend people to take an hour long trip every few weeks.

 

So your rig sat in the previous owner's RV pad & possibly they start it up occasionally, let it idle for 30 minutes to recharge the battery & the like.  For 10 years or more.  That's enough for a couple quartz of oil to get used, & the condensing water to take it places.  Then you come along & run the RV for a couple hundred miles - all that water evaporates & you have a mysterious loss of oil.

 

I won't say this is what happened.  But it's a very plausible scenario. 

 

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Without the readings from the tests, anything said is just a WAG. Go back to the shop and see if you can get them

IF everything is really OK then you are back to leaks. Leaking that much oil the engine might actually be clean underneath, so get underneath and take a clean rag and wipe things down and see what it looks like. If you replace the spark plugs, get them back and post a closeup photo of them.

Worrisome "really gross oil" after just 25 miles!!

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Yea, gross oil is a weird phrasing from a mechanic. Gross as in milky? Black? Chunky (metal shards in oil)? To burn that kind of oil that quickly you would be smoking big time and you'd be smelling it. It's leaking from somewhere. 

 

My valve cover leaked quite a bit (not near as much as what is going on in these posts) and the gasket was like hard plastic when I removed it; petrified. I'm betting I was the first to change it since 1987. You may be having leaks from a number of sources and will have to resolve each one. 

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  • 1 month later...

Okay so I did have another mechanic take a look at it and he also came to the conclusion that it was not burning or leaking oil. I had him test drive it and look over everything before he changed the transmission fluid and spark plugs. I’ve only drove about 60 miles since my last oil change and it’s been showing full. Now flash forward to today I started the engine and this flew out of the exhaust. It didn’t smell like oil or feel like it so I think it’s carbon and water. Any ideas on what this means? It’s been sitting for almost a month since I’ve been slowly repairing water damage in the back wall. I know having it sit is bad, but I can’t drive it with the back wall out. 

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2 minutes ago, TSUBulldog12 said:

Okay so I did have another mechanic take a look at it and he also came to the conclusion that it was not burning or leaking oil. I had him test drive it and look over everything before he changed the transmission fluid and spark plugs. I’ve only drove about 60 miles since my last oil change and it’s been showing full. Now flash forward to today I started the engine and this flew out of the exhaust. It didn’t smell like oil or feel like it so I think it’s carbon and water. Any ideas on what this means? It’s been sitting for almost a month since I’ve been slowly repairing water damage in the back wall. I know having it sit is bad, but I can’t drive it with the back wall out. 

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Also after that shot out there was some light grey/white smoke as well.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Yep, what Linda said!  Nothing to worry about.  ...btw even though it's bad to let these sit a while, that really means going a year or more, I don't worry in the slightest about 30 days.  And make a couple trips of an hour or more on the highway/freeway each year, to really heat up that engine & evaporate condensation - especially helpful for your engine oil - more frequent than that, if you have more local trips which are shorter.   IMO, that's why you saw the rapid drop in oil level that first longer drive you took home in the rig - esp given the mechanic's comment who later characterized oil condition as "gross".

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