Run a Foolie as a Single

[BigGreen]

Hi All,

 

I bought my first Toyota motorhome yesterday! It's a 1984 Phoenix with the "foolie" rear end. In the long run I'd like to swap to the full floating rear or possibly convert to a D60 or 14 bolt. In the meantime, I'm hoping to get a little use out the motorhome for the remainder of the summer (short drives to local campgrounds and such). With the understanding that I'm choosing between two not great options, would it be better to run a single rear wheel along with a tire with a sufficient load rating or just trek along with both rear wheels and fingers crossed?

[Allan]

I'd go with the single myself. I too have an '84 Sandtana Phoenix. Do you have any of the sales literature? All I have is the truck owners manual and warranty/maintenance book. Sandtana declared bankruptcy when the recall happened. Fortunately my rig has the right axle. My rig has no marker light on the coach at all. Front or rear. Never did. I'm wondering if that's the case with yours as well.

Allan

[Derek up North]

On 8/11/2020 at 11:38 AM, BigGreen said:

 It's a 1984 Phoenix ...

 

Similar to this?

 

 

[Derek up North]

7 hours ago, Allan said:

I'd go with the single myself. I too have an '84 Sandtana Phoenix. Do you have any of the sales literature? All I have is the truck owners manual and warranty/maintenance book. Sandtana declared bankruptcy when the recall happened. Fortunately my rig has the right axle. My rig has no marker light on the coach at all. Front or rear. Never did. I'm wondering if that's the case with yours as well.

Allan

 

Can you post a picture of yours. I know 'Sandtana and 'Phoenix' as 2 different manufacturers. Both, however, were out of production long before the Axle Recall issued in 1991.

[Maineah]

The only way to know you are safe with a single wheel is know the actual weight of what's in it's back and the listed GVW of the truck. If it's full size it's over weight without question. Putting a bigger diff under it will do nothing for the springs etc.

[Derek up North]

On 8/11/2020 at 11:38 AM, BigGreen said:

In the meantime, I'm hoping to get a little use out the motorhome for the remainder of the summer (short drives to local campgrounds and such).

 

If you plan to do this, at least follow the recommendations in the Recall. Note that these were recommendations for temporary use and that since then 30 years have elapsed!

 

 

[Allan]

On 8/14/2020 at 4:56 AM, Derek up North said:

 

Can you post a picture of yours. I know 'Sandtana and 'Phoenix' as 2 different manufacturers. Both, however, were out of production long before the Axle Recall issued in 1991.

I will take some pictures and get them to you. Mine is the Phoenix model built by Sandtana Industries in Colton California. Sandtana's most sought after model is the Tilt-Top. My Phoenix has the same striping as the above picture but my rear windows are larger to provide the panoramic view for the rear dinette. Hard to tell but are there marker lights hiding under all that maple flavoured snow?

[Derek up North]

Thanks. I had no idea that the Phoenix was built by Sandtana. Now that I've learned something today, I can go to bed!

[Allan]

On 8/14/2020 at 7:56 AM, Derek up North said:

 

Can you post a picture of yours. I know 'Sandtana and 'Phoenix' as 2 different manufacturers. Both, however, were out of production long before the Axle Recall issued in 1991.

 

Here they are. Note the lack of marker lights. Are there any marker lights on the other Phoenixes?

 

 

 

 

 

[linda s]

Looked through some pictures and I don't see marker lights on lots of the earlier models. Dolphins didn't have them until 1979 and Sunraders didn't have them until they made the front window smaller in 83. You are NOT required to upgrade and add them. 

Linda S

[Derek up North]

Over the years, I've only 'captured' a couple of Phoenix's off the net. 1 I saved as a 1984 and neither have clearance lights.

 

Right now, clearance lights are legally required on new vehicles. I looked once to try to find out when they became legally required with no success. Kind of confusing is that different manufacturers seem to have adopted them in different years, so no real solid clues. As Linda said, Dolphins had them in 1979, Sunraders in 1983. Until your Phoenix, I guessed Sunrader hung on until the last minute before having to modify their molds. So my best guess was the start date for the new requirement was Jan 1st 1983. Now I'm not sure.

 

Something I'm pretty sure of is that if they're fitted, they've got to be working or you might get a ticket.

 

[Allan]

I am concerned that without marker lights I might be in danger of colliding with low flying aircraft. I think I will learn to live with the fear.

[linda s]

Your in far more danger from the Hobbit bridges. Drive very carefully in the shire

Linda S

[AKPirate]

Holy smokes! I purchased one of these A while ago and only recently started the project. I have never seen another one in Alaska. What is a foolie axel? This is all pretty new to me, thanks.

[john*thomas]

 The easiest way to tell in general is if you have 5 lugs versus 6 on the rear.  As noted above what many manufacturers did was simply place another wheel on the factory axle that was never designed for having dual rear wheels.  They then went to a full floating rear end with 6 lugs once a problem started showing up. The F.F. takes the weight off the axles.  Many have been switched out over the years and a few never did.

[linda s]

Except if you have a Nissan. All of them had 6 lugs in the back, even the early ones with fake duallys. Protruding hub in the rear is a better tell

Linda S

[john*thomas]

10 minutes ago, linda s said:

Except if you have a Nissan. All of them had 6 lugs in the back, even the early ones with fake duallys. Protruding hub in the rear is a better tell

Linda S

 

 Interesting. Learn something new all the time. I do not see many Nissan's and I don't believe I've ever seen one with 6 lugs on a standard axle. Thanks.

[linda s]

All Nissan 610's and 720's had 6 lugs . You have never seen one with 5 because they don't exist

Linda S

[Maineah]

With the fake dualies the outside wheel actually makes the problem worse because it places greater leverage on the drive axle and when they break it's not a pretty sight. With the real duel wheels the drive axle does not support the the vehicle weight.  

[john*thomas]

 Sorry, I just meant I guess I've not run across a Nissan RV that old. 

[extech]

in 69 i had a nissan(datsun) pu. i put chevy thuck 6 lug wheels on the back to raise the gear ratio for freeway driving. the truck was a 66, so they have always been 6 lug

[AKPirate]

9 hours ago, john*thomas said:

 The easiest way to tell in general is if you have 5 lugs versus 6 on the rear.  As noted above what many manufacturers did was simply place another wheel on the factory axle that was never designed for having dual rear wheels.  They then went to a full floating rear end with 6 lugs once a problem started showing up. The F.F. takes the weight off the axles.  Many have been switched out over the years and a few never did.

Thanks for the info! As it turns out I have the 6 lug axle, very happy about that.

[extech]

so nissan has always been 6 lug.  that doesn't mean you're ok. it needs to have the center come through the wheel. there are some bolts going into the center part. thats where the axle bolts to the hub

[Maineah]

6 hours ago, extech said:

in 69 i had a nissan(datsun) pu. i put chevy thuck 6 lug wheels on the back to raise the gear ratio for freeway driving. the truck was a 66, so they have always been 6 lug

Ok because it has 6 lugs it does not mean it's a full floating axle. The full floaters had the axle protruding from the center of the wheel with several small bolts holding it in place the big difference is the axle on a full floatier has nothing to do with the holding the vehicle up. My Tacoma has a 6 bolt wheel but not a floating axle. 

[extech]

1 hour ago, Maineah said:

Ok because it has 6 lugs it does not mean it's a full floating axle. The full floaters had the axle protruding from the center of the wheel with several small bolts holding it in place the big difference is the axle on a full floatier has nothing to do with the holding the vehicle up. My Tacoma has a 6 bolt wheel but not a floating axle. 

i agree. see my post above

[linda s]

Well AKpirate has a Toyota and in his video you can see the hub protruding and the correct 3 hole wheels so he's fine. Just to add interesting  information all 4x4 Sunraders came with fake duallys except for 1. My friend bought it from the mans estate and it came with the paper work of the upgrade while it was being built in 1986. Gardiner-Pacific bought the first 15 inch custom duallys from Custom and Commercial Wheel for this rig and that's how that company got into the Toyota motorhome wheel business. Mike talked to the wife and she said her husband insisted on having the best and that meant the new full floater.

Linda S

[woodenickle]

On 9/23/2021 at 3:30 PM, AKPirate said:

Holy smokes! I purchased one of these A while ago and only recently started the project. I have never seen another one in Alaska. What is a foolie axel? This is all pretty new to me, thanks.

i live in north pole, Alaska and have a 19' royal holiday. its a bit smaller but its just nice to hear about other Alaskans with these

[83 Ranger]

The Gran sport Ranger I bought has the 5 lug with foolies Im not sure the GVW of it but its defiantly lighter than the average Dolphin and some of the others Is it really a problem running the foolies even with lower PSI in the outer tire?

[IdahoDoug]

I would roll it across a scale and see what the rear axle weight is with a full load of everything just as you'll take it on a camping trip.  When those axles fail, it's a life threatening situation, so you should know what the actual weight is.  Yes, yours looks lighter. For reference, my completely empty Sunrader weighs over 3800lbs on the rear axles.  Check back after a weigh - local dump may have a scale, or google weigh stations.

[83 Ranger]

 The Gran sport Ranger I bought has the 5 lug with foolies Im not sure the GVW of it but its defiantly lighter than the average Dolphin and some of the others Is it really a problem running the foolies even with lower PSI in the outer tire?

 

Thanks IdahoDoug That's a good idea I'll look into finding a scale to weigh it I'll get back as soon as I get it weighed What was the weight they were rated for from the factory? If I were to go single wheel should I go to a wider rim than stock for stability?  

Edited November 6, 2023 by 83 Ranger

[linda s]

The foolie is not rated to any weight. It can fail on a regular truck. Less pressure in the outer wheel helps but a bumpy road can put the stress right back on the bearings. 

A single wheel will be fine for you. Wider will give more stability but I recommend adding a stabilizer bar too. Also recommend you get the axle serviced with new bearings to make sure your not already driving on damaged ones

Linda S 

[83 Ranger]

Thanks Linda S I understand exactly what you're saying I plan on taking it off on dirt fire roads on occasion which could really put a load on the outer wheel  I'll have to look into purchasing some rims, tires and a stabilizer bar and check the bearings while I'm at it 

 One more question my tag says the GAWR is 2905 lb plan on getting is weighed still what's the chances of it coming in under that? 

[linda s]

Your not locked into that weight. Truth is your rear axle in good condition can handle much more. Somewhere on this site John found evidence that the Toyota 8 inch axle could handle up to 4000 lbs but I can't find his post. If you want to do some off road driving with a single wheel in the back you could upgrade to 15 inch wheels all around. 2wd Tacomas had 5 lug 15 inch wheels. Maybe junk yard?  Little more clearance and also more stability. When you're ready I can find you the tires. 

Linda S

[fred heath]

16 hours ago, 83 Ranger said:

Thanks Linda S I understand exactly what you're saying I plan on taking it off on dirt fire roads on occasion which could really put a load on the outer wheel  I'll have to look into purchasing some rims, tires and a stabilizer bar and check the bearings while I'm at it 

 One more question my tag says the GAWR is 2905 lb plan on getting is weighed still what's the chances of it coming in under that? 

The axle weight is based on single wheels with 7.50-14-6 ply tires which were standard equipment on the special purpose chassis (cab and chassis).

Modern c or d rated single wheel radials in factory 14” or even 15” should be good for around 4K pounds. The foolie axle was plenty strong. It was the extra wheel and tire that caused the breaking axle problem.

[IdahoDoug]

And to answer your question, good chance yours will come in under that weight as the weights on your plate are the maximum allowable.  What you'll discover as a weight is commonly referred to as your "curb weight" or the weight your car actually is sitting at the curb today!