Jack M. Posted April 18, 2018 Posted April 18, 2018 11 minutes ago, Maineah said: The converter will only stand so much current if you start putting a bunch of lights in line you run the risk of losing them all if it fails. There is nothing but a bunch of diodes inside the little box they can only stand so much. Something else to ponder the voltage drop through a diode is about .7 volt meaning you will lose a percentage of light. A better bet save the money for LED clearance lights if you want to be seen. Trust me the KISS principle really does work. I should have suspected there would be a little something more to it. I've already switched the markers to led, they look great. Five amber in front and five red in back. The two rear side markers are still incandescent. The new tails will be all led. I suppose that just having good working lights should be enough, ...but I think I'm in the market for something extra. I've even considered getting flashing ambers like a construction vehicle. Haha. Quote
Derek up North Posted April 18, 2018 Posted April 18, 2018 Unfortunately, flashing lights of any colour might well get you a ticket. Unless you're an official vehicle. Quote
Jack M. Posted April 18, 2018 Posted April 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, Derek up North said: Unfortunately, flashing lights of any colour might well get you a ticket. Unless you're an official vehicle. I came across several 35 mph hill-climbers with their flashers on. It seemed like the thing to do. I think I'd be willing to take my chances with a ticket rather than getting run over. Quote
Totem Posted April 18, 2018 Posted April 18, 2018 Here is a list of each state's rules regarding driving with hazard lights, according to AAA: Alabama: The use of hazard lights is permitted while driving unless otherwise posted. Alaska: The use of hazard lights is not permitted while driving. Arizona: Hazard light use is not permitted while driving except in an emergency situation. Arkansas: Hazard light usage is not permitted while driving except to indicate a traffic hazard. California: Hazard light use is not permitted while driving except to indicate a traffic hazard. Connecticut: Hazard light use is permitted while driving unless otherwise posted. Delaware: Hazard light use is not permitted while driving except to indicate a traffic hazard. District of Columbia: Hazard light use is permitted while driving. Florida: The use of hazard lights is not permitted while driving. Georgia: The use of hazard lights is permitted while driving. Hawaii: Hazard light use is not permitted while driving. Idaho: Hazard light use is not permitted while driving except to indicate the presence of a vehicular traffic hazard requiring unusual care in approaching, overtaking or passing. Illinois: The use of hazard lights is not permitted while driving. Indiana: Hazard light use is not permitted while driving except in emergency situations. Iowa: The use of hazard lights are not permitted while driving except to indicate a traffic hazard. Kansas: Hazard light use is not permitted while driving. Kentucky: Hazard light use is permitted while driving. Louisiana: Hazard light use is not permitted while driving. Maine: Hazard light use is not permitted while driving unless to indicate a traffic hazard. Maryland: Hazard light use is not permitted while driving except in emergency situations. Massachusetts: Hazard light use is not permitted while driving. Michigan: Hazard light use is permitted while driving. Minnesota: Hazard lights are not permitted while driving except to indicate a traffic hazard. Mississippi: Hazard light usage is permitted while driving. Missouri: Hazard light usage is permitted while driving. Montana: Hazard lights are not permitted while driving except to indicate a traffic hazard. Nebraska: Hazard light use is permitted while driving. Nevada: Hazard light usage is not permitted while driving. New Hampshire: Hazard light use is permitted while driving. New Jersey: The use of hazard lights is permitted while driving. New Mexico: Hazard light use is not permitted while driving. New York: Hazard light use is permitted while driving unless otherwise posted. North Carolina: Hazard light use is permitted while driving unless otherwise posted. North Dakota: Hazard light use is permitted while driving unless otherwise posted. Ohio: Hazard light use is not permitted while driving except when a hazardous condition is present. Oklahoma: Hazard light use is not permitted while driving except in emergency situations and to indicate a traffic hazard. Oregon: Hazard light use is permitted while driving unless otherwise posted. Pennsylvania: Hazard light use is permitted while driving. Rhode Island: Hazard light use is not permitted while driving. South Carolina: Hazard lights may be used while driving for the purpose of warning the operators of other vehicles of the presence of a vehicular traffic hazard requiring the exercise of unusual care in approaching, overtaking or passing. South Dakota: Hazard light use is permitted while driving. Tennessee: Hazard light use is not permitted while driving except in emergency situations. Texas: Hazard light use is permitted while driving. Utah: Hazard light use is permitted while driving. Vermont: Hazard light use is permitted while driving. Virginia: Hazard light use is not permitted while driving except for emergency vehicles, stopped or slowed vehicles to indicate a traffic hazard, when traveling as part of a funeral procession, or traveling slower than 30 mph. Washington: Hazard light use is not permitted while driving except to indicate a traffic hazard. West Virginia: Hazard lights are not permitted while driving except in emergency situations. Wisconsin: Hazard lights are not permitted while driving except to indicate a traffic hazard or when a hazardous condition is present. Wyoming: Hazard light use is permitted while driving Quote
Derek up North Posted April 18, 2018 Posted April 18, 2018 I remember years ago someone floated the idea of an add-on for your brakes. Applying the brakes made the brake lights flash. The harder you braked, the faster they flashed. No idea if it was ever put into production. Quote
Jack M. Posted April 18, 2018 Posted April 18, 2018 "...except to indicate a traffic hazard. " Yeah, that's me on hills. I qualify. I'm sure most people in this group understand the perils of mountain travel. It's new to me. Quote
Derek up North Posted April 18, 2018 Posted April 18, 2018 26 minutes ago, Totem said: Here is a list of each state's rules regarding driving with hazard lights, according to AAA: There are probably differing laws from State to State for 'gumballs' on the roof. Towtrucks only? With a plow installed? BTW, most (or all?) jurisdictions (or maybe it's DOT) regulate the 'flash rate' of your lights. Only so many 'flashes/second*' allowed. Don't recall the number (and it might vary). So if you install LED turn indicators and decide to 'live' with the fast flash rate, you might be inviting a ticket. * Possibly 60-120 flashes/minute. https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/281/34157.0001.001.pdf;sequence=2 Quote
linda s Posted April 18, 2018 Posted April 18, 2018 It's always men who worry about the fact that we are driving slower. I have never been honked at or come even close to being rammed or sideswiped on the highway. Strange Linda S City driving doesn't count. They can see you fine, they just don't care Quote
Jack M. Posted April 18, 2018 Posted April 18, 2018 7 minutes ago, linda s said: It's always men who worry about the fact that we are driving slower. I have never been honked at or come even close to being rammed or sideswiped on the highway. Strange Wow, never even been honked at?? Amazing. I've only been out for a few weeks and it seems the norm to me. I was prepared for it though and just smile and sometimes wave. Most often I get the finger, but I just shrug because what can I do?? That's as fast as I go. The "worry" part for me doesn't seem to have much to do with my gender but more preservation of life or survival. In the city or during the day, being slow is not an issue for me. On a dark and narrow mountain road with a rock face on one side and a cliff on the other, with large trucks passing and blowing my little rig around, and having questionable exterior lighting, ...it's a whole other story. It's more of a concern. I guess worry too, based on fear of dying. I'd rather be extra safe rather than sorry, if I can help it. Quote
linda s Posted April 18, 2018 Posted April 18, 2018 Narrow mountain roads like 101 up on the north coast, or highway 20 diving to Tahoe? Gee even getting to Redding from my house can be a challenge. How can you see them giving you the finger? Best to only pay attention to what's important. The road Linda S My driveway is my biggest challenge. Muddy and steep. I tell people I have a gold medal in RV mud skiing Quote
Jack M. Posted April 18, 2018 Posted April 18, 2018 5 minutes ago, linda s said: Narrow mountain roads like 101 up on the north coast, or highway 20 diving to Tahoe? Gee even getting to Redding from my house can be a challenge. How can you see them giving you the finger? Best to only pay attention to what's important. The road I can see them giving me the finger during the day and around town because they pull up next to me and stick it in my face, or cut in front and stick their hand out the window. It's actually kinda hard to miss. On the dark mtn road adventure I had, I couldn't see much at all because, well, ...it was dark. I could however hear the blaring horn and hi-beams in my mirrors, and feel the big woosh as they pass a little to close to teach me a lesson about being too slow I suppose. I know how to drive, that's a non-issue since I've been doing it for 35 years. The issue I have is not even going slow, it's being hard to see while going slow. I feel this is a safety issue for me and that's why I'm here getting help with my new lights. Quote
Totem Posted April 18, 2018 Posted April 18, 2018 I have driven in states that post signs REQUIRING the use of hazard lights and the right most lane below certain speeds. - the point of my post is just that; hazards have absolutely nothing to do with gender and everything to do with requirements of the current state you are in. While my personal opine on using them is to alert people behind me that "I will not be moving any faster so do not get your hopes up" message is received, I would also like to add that I have also enjoyed seeing "the finger" on many a hand that seemed to be owned by a biologically born female or someone whom identifies as inclined to wear nail polish. Most people in a hurry are just that - in a hurry- and do not necessarily belong to any creed, color or gender. (wow did I just really even say that?) Quote
Jack M. Posted April 18, 2018 Posted April 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, Totem said: I have driven in states that post signs REQUIRING the use of hazard lights and the right most lane below certain speeds. - the point of my post is just that; hazards have absolutely nothing to do with gender and everything to do with requirements of the current state you are in. While my personal opine on using them is to alert people behind me that "I will not be moving any faster so do not get your hopes up" message is received, I would also like to add that I have also enjoyed seeing "the finger" on many a hand that seemed to be owned by a biologically born female or someone whom identifies as inclined to wear nail polish. Most people in a hurry are just that - in a hurry- and do not necessarily belong to any creed, color or gender. (wow did I just really even say that?) Haha, you're funny. To be fair, I probably deserved a few of those fingers. I'm use to driving a regular sports car and my "huge" truck is a new experience for me. I have big mirrors and a camera on the back but it's still much harder to tell what's going on all around. I'd like to nicely let people know that I'm big and slow and partially blind. I was thinking about adding some yellow hazard stripes. Perhaps "caution: slow vehicle" or some other markings like a school bus or driver's ed car. On the I-215 I was happy to see dedicated slow vehicle lanes. I could just fall in line behind a big tanker and keep up with them. Someday there will be an engine swap and slow will no longer be a thing! <sigh> Quote
Totem Posted April 18, 2018 Posted April 18, 2018 I am afraid unless you put in a v8 this will always be a thing on mountain passes. Quote
Jack M. Posted April 18, 2018 Posted April 18, 2018 11 minutes ago, Totem said: I am afraid unless you put in a v8 this will always be a thing on mountain passes. A 3.4 has more than twice the hp. I think that might help a little. Kind of expensive project though. A guy can dream. Quote
Totem Posted April 18, 2018 Posted April 18, 2018 185 hp (138 kW) at 5800 rpm and 189 lb⋅ft at 4600 rpm. 114 hp at 4,800 rpm 140 lb ft at 3,600 rpm both above stock..not exactly more than twice... more like 61% more. then we have the weight of the motor... and the other necessary things to be with it...nope they are still snails with the 3.4 VZ toyota motor. Unless you speak of a non-toyota 3.4? Quote
Jack M. Posted April 18, 2018 Posted April 18, 2018 8 minutes ago, Totem said: 185 hp (138 kW) at 5800 rpm and 189 lb⋅ft at 4600 rpm. 114 hp at 4,800 rpm 140 lb ft at 3,600 rpm both above stock..not exactly more than twice... more like 61% more. then we have the weight of the motor... and the other necessary things to be with it...nope they are still snails with the 3.4 VZ toyota motor. Unless you speak of a non-toyota 3.4? Yeah, don't want to go jumping into this one without a lot of research. Luckily, I have plenty of time before that project comes around. Ha. My 22re came with ~115, but that was 30 years and 200k ago. Maybe, since the compression is still good, good plugs & wires, and the best exhaust I could afford to get, I figure I MIGHT have ~95 without ac. The Toyota 3.4 5VZ-FE boasts 190 stock. I think that's close enough to double for generalizations. I've also heard that it's pretty easy to get 225 out of them. The goal would be to go 65 on hills instead of 45. The little 4-banger will already do 68 on flat ground fully-loaded. It takes awhile to get there but that's faster than I will ever need to go. I'd like to use some of that extra hp for ac and a larger alternator. I don't know about these things, so I'll take your word that it may not be all unicorns and butterflies. Something better would be nice. I spoke to some race truck guys who said they would choose the 3.4. I assume it's worth considering. I've heard talk about "slapping-in a smallblock" and that would be awesome. I'm already a fan. However, It's seems the "right" thing to do is put a Toyota motor in it, to keep it "all Toyota." I don't know of a better Toyota motor than that 5VZ-FE and apparently you have to shoehorn it in there. If money wasn't the issue, what motor would you want in yours? Quote
Totem Posted April 18, 2018 Posted April 18, 2018 (edited) I already just replaced my motor - there was nothing wrong with my motor a 22re that had 40k on it when i bought it. It had 80+ k on it when i swapped into my new build. It went about 68 MPH tops its whole life even when it only had 40 k on it... I have posted about my motor build in here. I had a custom 22re hand built in California and modified by a company that builds them custom for rock crawlers and RVs. As others taught me in here, its about torque at RPM and your desired goals. The physics of pushing air in one of these RVs means that the stock motors cam, its flywheel and other things were designed around moving a pickup truck, not an RV - thats the 68 mph. My new motor, which probably cost more than swapping in a 3.4 5VZ would have, now easily reaches 75 MPH. So I have already attained enlightenment for my sunrader which was getting there faster; but my targeted goal was a better top speed on regular terrain, as soon as I am on a mountain pass that motor is trying to do all I mentioned before plus fight incline/gravity and I am right back to checking the law on flashers for the state. Again, I have yet to see an RV that really doesnt have this problem including the powerstroke diesel ford class C's; once they are in a mountain pass in yellowstone they are going 25-30 MPH and fall right in line behind the Mac Truck they are stuck behind. On the flats sure it would help; but really its the better power band torque range that's getting the speed. Edited April 18, 2018 by Totem Quote
Jack M. Posted April 18, 2018 Posted April 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, Totem said: I already just replaced my motor - there was nothing wrong with my motor a 22re that had 40k on it when i bought it. It had 80+ k on it when i swapped into my new build. It went about 68 MPH tops its whole life even when it only had 40 k on it... I have posted about my motor build in here. I had a custom 22re hand built in California and modified by a company that builds them custom for rock crawlers and RVs. As others taught me in here, its about torque at RPM and your desired goals. The physics of pushing air in one of these RVs means that the stock motors cam, its flywheel and other things were designed around moving a pickup truck, not an RV - thats the 68 mph. My new motor, which probably cost more than swapping in a 3.4 5VZ would have, now easily reaches 75 MPH. So I have already attained enlightenment for my sunrader which was getting there faster; but my targeted goal was a better top speed on regular terrain, as soon as I am on a mountain pass that motor is trying to do all I mentioned before plus fight incline/gravity and I am right back to checking the law on flashers for the state. Again, I have yet to see an RV that really doesnt have this problem including the powerstroke diesel ford class C's; once they are in a mountain pass in yellowstone they are going 25-30 MPH and fall right in line behind the Mac Truck they are stuck behind. On the flats sure it would help; but really its the better power band torque range that's getting the speed. "enlightenment for my sunrader" ...you're too funny! My truck sounds like it's working way too hard on mild hills and seems like it might explode on any real mountains. Maybe that's just how they sound?? The race guys also suggested building the 22re. There was a little debate but the final two answers from them was the 3.4 or build the 22r. It looked like it could be more expensive to build the 22 so I figured it might be better to start with a larger motor instead. I figured the short E350's had no problem. That's too bad. I'm probably getting shafted by my automatic tranny as well. Quote
Derek up North Posted April 18, 2018 Posted April 18, 2018 Swap in a 5 speed and 4.56 or 4.88. Or a 2JZ! Quote
Jack M. Posted April 18, 2018 Posted April 18, 2018 13 minutes ago, Totem said: here it is: took some digging " a goose being stabbed by a hot fire poker " ...that's it!! That's exactly what my truck sounds like! Quote
Totem Posted April 18, 2018 Posted April 18, 2018 (edited) I find it was totally worth it - to me.. but this may not be for everyone and I am known to waste $ on my sunrader. the stage (2) 22re I had built out custom from 22reperformance I believe was about $3700 to have made and shipped and took over 1 year from order to receiving it. Installation is bolt on and unless you have something worse than a 4.10 diff you should be fine with it as is. I have seen the frankenstein motor swap attempted in here by many from the lexus SUVs and to my knowledge they are still working on them to get them riding well. My custom 22re is more than just a sticker as derek chooses to believe, I had mine built presumably the same as WME (another user in this forum) who advised me on it and was spot on. Its the perfect mix of speed and MPG and is still what technically came with it if only ported, cam'd and a better flywheel & injectors... wow what a difference it made though. Now if i could just find a motorless 4runner.... Edited April 18, 2018 by Totem Quote
Jack M. Posted April 19, 2018 Posted April 19, 2018 4 hours ago, Totem said: I find it was totally worth it - to me.. but this may not be for everyone and I am known to waste $ on my sunrader. the stage (2) 22re I had built out custom from 22reperformance I believe was about $3700 to have made and shipped and took over 1 year from order to receiving it. Installation is bolt on and unless you have something worse than a 4.10 diff you should be fine with it as is. I have seen the frankenstein motor swap attempted in here by many from the lexus SUVs and to my knowledge they are still working on them to get them riding well. My custom 22re is more than just a sticker as derek chooses to believe, I had mine built presumably the same as WME (another user in this forum) who advised me on it and was spot on. Its the perfect mix of speed and MPG and is still what technically came with it if only ported, cam'd and a better flywheel & injectors... wow what a difference it made though. Now if i could just find a motorless 4runner.... I'm too new to have a real opinion about anything yet. I've had my eye on a micro rv for about 25 years. I saw my first Sunrader in 1994 and thought it was something special. It always seemed the the perfect backup plan. I finally got one. I love it and wouldn't want anything else, ...but there are definitely some things that can stand to be better. Not too many necessities but a lot to think & dream about and at least a decade of fun projects. Having a little more power seems like a pretty logical step (at some point). $3,700 sounds reasonable to me. The 3.4 conversion would cost $8k plus. Neither would be an easy undertaking. I'd have a shop do the work. I better just plan on making the stock 22 work for me for the foreseeable future. Quote
danny dan Posted April 19, 2018 Posted April 19, 2018 5 hours ago, Jack M. said: Yeah, don't want to go jumping into this one without a lot of research. Luckily, I have plenty of time before that project comes around. Ha. My 22re came with ~115, but that was 30 years and 200k ago. Maybe, since the compression is still good, good plugs & wires, and the best exhaust I could afford to get, I figure I MIGHT have ~95 without ac. The Toyota 3.4 5VZ-FE boasts 190 stock. I think that's close enough to double for generalizations. I've also heard that it's pretty easy to get 225 out of them. The goal would be to go 65 on hills instead of 45. The little 4-banger will already do 68 on flat ground fully-loaded. It takes awhile to get there but that's faster than I will ever need to go. I'd like to use some of that extra hp for ac and a larger alternator. I don't know about these things, so I'll take your word that it may not be all unicorns and butterflies. Something better would be nice. I spoke to some race truck guys who said they would choose the 3.4. I assume it's worth considering. I've heard talk about "slapping-in a smallblock" and that would be awesome. I'm already a fan. However, It's seems the "right" thing to do is put a Toyota motor in it, to keep it "all Toyota." I don't know of a better Toyota motor than that 5VZ-FE and apparently you have to shoehorn it in there. If money wasn't the issue, what motor would you want in yours? The 3.4 swap is well worth it. I finished one up on my 92 Itasca about a month ago. Cost of my donor vehicle, $600 and I already sold parts off it and at this point got it for almost free. I did all the labor myself. The 3.4 swap has been done over and over and over as you probably know. It is a proven engine that has will go 200k plus on the factory timing belt and is an excellent candidate for your swap. Don't get me wrong, I've built a lot of 22re engines and done more timing chain/head gasket repairs than I could ever count. I absolute love the 2xr series for what they are . That being said, the 5vz is not a snail. They respond well to a few bolt on mods and are easy to supercharger. I can cruise at highway speeds with no problems and then some. I can pass big rigs all day long if I want to. It pulls a steep grade almost like a passenger car. I built a '93 Chinook 4x4 conversion several years back. The stock 22re in it (with the exception of an 82 Supra AFM and exhaust) performs well, but honestly, it takes a minute to get to cruising speed. The 5vz swapped Itasca will smoke it all day long... I have a near new 4 bolt main sbc 350 & a 4l60e I could have slammed in there. But that just didn't seem right. There are several options out there. Just my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt. Quote
Jack M. Posted April 19, 2018 Posted April 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, danny dan said: The 3.4 swap is well worth it. I finished one up on my 92 Itasca about a month ago. Cost of my donor vehicle, $600 and I already sold parts off it and at this point got it for almost free. I did all the labor myself. The 3.4 swap has been done over and over and over as you probably know. It is a proven engine that has will go 200k plus on the factory timing belt and is an excellent candidate for your swap. Don't get me wrong, I've built a lot of 22re engines and done more timing chain/head gasket repairs than I could ever count. I absolute love the 2xr series for what they are . That being said, the 5vz is not a snail. They respond well to a few bolt on mods and are easy to supercharger. I can cruise at highway speeds with no problems and then some. I can pass big rigs all day long if I want to. It pulls a steep grade almost like a passenger car. I built a '93 Chinook 4x4 conversion several years back. The stock 22re in it (with the exception of an 82 Supra AFM and exhaust) performs well, but honestly, it takes a minute to get to cruising speed. The 5vz swapped Itasca will smoke it all day long... I have a near new 4 bolt main sbc 350 & a 4l60e I could have slammed in there. But that just didn't seem right. There are several options out there. Just my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt. I definitely respect the opinions of you guys who have actually done these things! Thanks. A motor swap is too big of a project for me so I'll have to take the long way around (pay). I'm glad to hear that swap wasn't too hard and it's working out good for you. Sounds like a good option. You had to swap the tranny too, right? Quote
danny dan Posted April 19, 2018 Posted April 19, 2018 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Jack M. said: I definitely respect the opinions of you guys who have actually done these things! Thanks. A motor swap is too big of a project for me so I'll have to take the long way around (pay). I'm glad to hear that swap wasn't too hard and it's working out good for you. Sounds like a good option. You had to swap the tranny too, right? It wasn't too bad, it probably isn't for the faint of heart though, especially the wiring. It works great. OBDII diagnostics, better fuel injection system, etc. I used the trans that was already in the Itasca, only because it had less mileage, no other reason. Building the one that came out of my donor as a spare. You would need to swap the trans and move engine mount location on yours. among other things... Apologies, didn't mean to hijack this thread, carry on. Edited April 19, 2018 by danny dan Quote
Totem Posted April 19, 2018 Posted April 19, 2018 (edited) $3700 was the motor cost. I paid additional for mechanic to install. That was nearly an additional 2k or so after odds and ends tallied up as it needed many things. It will run up a pass much more nicely than a stock 22re but its not a corvette. $5700 would put you in a performance 22re thats meant to do what you want it to with the rest stock (tranny etc) and still retains the bulletproof easy to maintain inline legendary 22re motor with enough room on either side that the average joe can fix anything while on a vacation with wife and kids..The 3.4? not so much and no offense to the guys that love working on that sort of motor and the fun that it entails fitting it into that bay. On the 3.4 I should like to see it cruise a mountain pass at Yellowstone (the ones that are so steep that they have pull offs for RVs) at passenger car speeds on camera, not that I am calling BS its simply physics; they are not 3x the horsepower and I should really enjoy seeing someone attempt to fit the super charger or turbo into it in that engine bay... Would be an awesome proove out to film a 3.4 going fast up a pass, because when I was there I saw as mentioned full size RVs with much more powerful motors than the 3.4 on that incline and they ALL have the snail. Pride never goes before fact with me and it lends folks to get emotional true enough so please do not take it as an insult, just an opinion based on my own observations. will a 3.4 smoke a 22re in a sunrader drag race? hell yes. Will that timing belt last 200k in that motor under that strain and heat with so little space for airflow? I would wager not. For those of us that are more familiar with timing belt blow ups and TRUTH in automotive engineering I challenge that farce for sure: https://www.greggsauto.net/2013/07/truth-about-timing-belts/ there is a reason that chain driven motors are more expensive than belt ones - they are the real million mile motors. with million mile being qualified as a defined by not having to overhaul them. Chains are not infallible either but they last far longer than belts. Again just my opine , but one backed by facts not emotion. Thats the reason I went the way I did... I simply do not enjoy working on my RV I want to drive it with the wife & kids and avoid break downs as much as possible but if one happens, I am the king of being in and out in 45 mins and back on the road. My family will back me on this. Whats my secret>? the easiest motor in the world ever to work on - a 22re in all that room of a truck bay. side edit... it was the 3.x series 6 cylinder motors that blow the head gaskets and had the recalls in these RVS. Everyone in here knows that very well. the 22re were far more bulletproof and known mostly for wearing out water pumps or chain guides which when replaced with proper upgraded ones last "forever" (in a true 200k mile sense). Edited April 19, 2018 by Totem Quote
Totem Posted April 19, 2018 Posted April 19, 2018 all of the above being said.... the stock 22re was not designed nor optimized to push air in a sunrader. I had a perfectly good one in mine and low mileage at that; but it was taking so long to get to where we wanted to go I just had to do something; and why not do it in style (Jims motor finish is beautiful with a hammered powder coating that really is a thing of beauty. Getting a motor that's custom ported with a different cam and other properties will indeed get you to where you want your rig performing while still being a 22re. However if you want a faster experience than 70-75 mph which in my mind is not needed the 3.4 is indeed the way to go but please do change its belt every 80-90k like any other belt motor; otherwise you could lose your investment Quote
Maineah Posted April 19, 2018 Posted April 19, 2018 22 hours ago, Derek up North said: I remember years ago someone floated the idea of an add-on for your brakes. Applying the brakes made the brake lights flash. The harder you braked, the faster they flashed. No idea if it was ever put into production. Yeah there are some out there that flash a few times then go to full bright we see that a lot up here on things like ambo and fire trucks I guess it's perfectly legal on private vehicles I haven't heard otherwise I have actually see one on a motorcycle. Quote
Jack M. Posted April 19, 2018 Posted April 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Totem said: It will run up a pass much more nicely than a stock 22re but its not a corvette. There is definitely a lot to consider here. I suppose it does have a lot to do with what you want and how much time/money you have. There seems to be good reason for either building the 22 or swapping 3.4. Either seem like more practical options than swapping the truck for say, a newer Tacoma (we better not even start that conversation!). Going faster is not the primary issue. I think 65 is a very comfortable speed or maybe 70 sometimes if possible. My daily-driver for the last 20 years has been a performance Trans Am that can climb straight up a wall without slowing down. Very fun on winding mtn roads. Anyway, I get the same thrill driving my truck at 65 as the TA at ~120. ...both hands on the wheel, watching everything, focused. I'm ready to slow down and deal with life at a reasonable pace. ...but not THAT slow. To be fair, I was having other vehicle issues when I went through the mountains. The hood got slammed shut and I was low on ATF so I tried to limp back home, then made a wrong turn into the mountains. About two days into my trip the speedo stopped working but I imagine I was only going 20-25 at the end. It would have been less dangerous if I were going the pokey 45 I was getting on hills earlier. For me, one priority would be to fix the "goose fire poker" issue. It's just a little too nerve racking to drive when it sounds like it's about to explode. Bless it's soul with 200k+. The other thing would be power for ac/alt and hills. Sounds like a good step might be to replace the tranny with a better one, ...which I would want for either engine option?? Perhaps gear it for better low-end and sacrifice some of that blazing speed that I get on flat ground. Quote
Totem Posted April 19, 2018 Posted April 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Jack M. said: There is definitely a lot to consider here. I suppose it does have a lot to do with what you want and how much time/money you have. There seems to be good reason for either building the 22 or swapping 3.4. Either seem like more practical options than swapping the truck for say, a newer Tacoma (we better not even start that conversation!). Going faster is not the primary issue. I think 65 is a very comfortable speed or maybe 70 sometimes if possible. My daily-driver for the last 20 years has been a performance Trans Am that can climb straight up a wall without slowing down. Very fun on winding mtn roads. Anyway, I get the same thrill driving my truck at 65 as the TA at ~120. ...both hands on the wheel, watching everything, focused. I'm ready to slow down and deal with life at a reasonable pace. ...but not THAT slow. To be fair, I was having other vehicle issues when I went through the mountains. The hood got slammed shut and I was low on ATF so I tried to limp back home, then made a wrong turn into the mountains. About two days into my trip the speedo stopped working but I imagine I was only going 20-25 at the end. It would have been less dangerous if I were going the pokey 45 I was getting on hills earlier. For me, one priority would be to fix the "goose fire poker" issue. It's just a little too nerve racking to drive when it sounds like it's about to explode. Bless it's soul with 200k+. The other thing would be power for ac/alt and hills. Sounds like a good step might be to replace the tranny with a better one, ...which I would want for either engine option?? Perhaps gear it for better low-end and sacrifice some of that blazing speed that I get on flat ground. WME did the motor build that I did AND he changed his gear ratio for much better performance. So the transmission stays the same if you want to keep automatic. I am not a fan of a stick shift in an RV due to the frequency i find myself in traffic on trips. personally I found the 4.10 gearing to by just fine once the new motor went in. Maybe someday I will change gear ratio if I become unsatisfied. To fix your goose fire poker issue if thats all you care about is easy. pop your hood and find your exhaust header Y pipe. start your RV. with hood open put your hand near the pipe without giving yourself a frat branding and feel for air all around the Y pipe and where it attaches to the down pipe. if you feel leaky air THAT is the source of the goose scream at high under duress RPM. you will find the nuts and possibly one of the 3 studs missing of course. some find all of them gone and its just hanging by a mount. In order to fix you will need to either make your own gaskets or get some proper donught gaskets - the y pipe takes 2 of them as the old ones are shot after so many years and even if recent they are the first thing to go on the tortured exhaust path of these overworked rigs. no leak there? continue down the exhaust but also check where the header pipes meet the engine for air leaking. same story there also, it will need new gaskets and nuts. Quote
danny dan Posted April 19, 2018 Posted April 19, 2018 7 hours ago, Totem said: $3700 was the motor cost. I paid additional for mechanic to install. That was nearly an additional 2k or so after odds and ends tallied up as it needed many things. It will run up a pass much more nicely than a stock 22re but its not a corvette. $5700 would put you in a performance 22re thats meant to do what you want it to with the rest stock (tranny etc) and still retains the bulletproof easy to maintain inline legendary 22re motor with enough room on either side that the average joe can fix anything while on a vacation with wife and kids..The 3.4? not so much and no offense to the guys that love working on that sort of motor and the fun that it entails fitting it into that bay. On the 3.4 I should like to see it cruise a mountain pass at Yellowstone (the ones that are so steep that they have pull offs for RVs) at passenger car speeds on camera, not that I am calling BS its simply physics; they are not 3x the horsepower and I should really enjoy seeing someone attempt to fit the super charger or turbo into it in that engine bay... Would be an awesome proove out to film a 3.4 going fast up a pass, because when I was there I saw as mentioned full size RVs with much more powerful motors than the 3.4 on that incline and they ALL have the snail. Pride never goes before fact with me and it lends folks to get emotional true enough so please do not take it as an insult, just an opinion based on my own observations. will a 3.4 smoke a 22re in a sunrader drag race? hell yes. Will that timing belt last 200k in that motor under that strain and heat with so little space for airflow? I would wager not. For those of us that are more familiar with timing belt blow ups and TRUTH in automotive engineering I challenge that farce for sure: https://www.greggsauto.net/2013/07/truth-about-timing-belts/ Ok dude. It's cool. Seriously, just head on over to Pirate or Yotatech and see what others have to say about these 3.4 belts lasting... the factory belts on these are solid and will go and go. I'm not saying that's what I'd do at all, just the fact they're known to go for a long time... I just did a timing belt and water pump for a fella. He had Toyota do the timing belt and water pump on his 03 Tundra with a 3.4 at around 139k. Fast forward to 341k after LOT of highway miles, he hadn't done anything other than oil changes since then. I pulled out the factory belt, tensioner and Aisin water pump (which by the way, looked great), installed his new parts and away he went. The factory timing belt is kevlar based, literally the same material HD uses on their belt drive system. It is VERY durable. These 3.4 engines are non-interference, so if the belt goes, it's generally not a death sentence. Whereas the 2xr series, well.... I've seen plenty of those chains let loose and the aftermath isn't usually pretty.. bent, broken valves, holes in pistons, destroyed heads and more. I WILL bet you money that the 3.4 timing belt will outlast the chain, guides and tensioner in ANY 2xr series engine. As I mentioned, I've done more 2xr head gaskets, timing chain jobs than there are weeks in the year... seriously, I can have one done in less than a day, 4-5 hours with helper to scrape gaskets and clean.... I'd say I'm fairly well acquainted with the automotive world. (I taught automotive classes at a local college for several years and I've been involved in the motorsports/auto industry for the last 20). I am by no means an expert, but I do know a few things. I've built quite a few engines, but I am not a pro engine builder by any stretch. I certainly wouldn't shell out $5700 for a polished 22re, but that's just me. Heck, I probably wouldn't pay $5700 for an entire vehicle. I'm frugal and can build and fix my own stuff. No matter how fancy it was built, you or someone else will be doing a timing chain sooner than later, its the nature of the beast. Don't get me wrong, I do love those little engines, they're torquey and fun. Every year I sell a handful of 2xr truck, mainly going to Guatemala and Honduras. I'd say I might know these trucks inside and out. I have storage trailer full of nothing but 22r/e stuff (body parts, electrical, engines and half a dozen a43d transmissions brand new in crates). I hoard parts and I collect more Toyota trucks than anyone should. These little engines very are reliable when taken care of, but they're not without flaws. BTW, the 3.4 works just fine with the stock v6 trans and actually gives a lot more work room than the 3vze that was there. My particular swap looks like it came from the factory. I don't find it hard to work on at all and I didn't have to wrestle it into place either. Just kind of plopped it on in there... Sure, there were modifications to be made, but it performs flawlessly. This is a swap that has been done a lot. Especially supercharged. It was a TRD option and fits just fine with some hood modifications. Anyway, If you're so familiar with the automotive engineering side of things, why pay someone else all that money for a fancy 22re? You should know, in the end, it is still a 22re. My dad had a '88 Sunrader with a 22re and as reliable as she was, that thing wouldn't pull a greasy string out of a cat's behind. I'd go 2rz/3rz or 5vz in a heartbeat over dumping serious money into a 22re. Putting money into one to keep it regularly maintained and reliable? Absolutely. "there is a reason that chain driven motors are more expensive than belt ones - they are the real million mile motors. with million mile being qualified as a defined by not having to overhaul them. Chains are not infallible either but they last far longer than belts. Again just my opine , but one backed by facts not emotion. Thats the reason I went the way I did... I simply do not enjoy working on my RV I want to drive it with the wife & kids and avoid break downs as much as possible but if one happens, I am the king of being in and out in 45 mins and back on the road. My family will back me on this. Whats my secret>? the easiest motor in the world ever to work on - a 22re in all that room of a truck bay." Yeah..... wait, what??? No, not really.... I've done timing chains that were worn out on Flathead Mopar engines, SBC, Toyota's, Nissans, tons of motorcycle engines, etc. Most, if not all with under 150k on the clock. Chains wear, chains stretch and chains break, especially on engines with an older design (like the 2xr). Whether its on your engine, motorcycle, cheese grater, whatever. It is a highly wearable item. Very few engines in this world are million mile engines. An example of a MUCH longer lasting chain drive engine would be the newer 1nz, 2rz, 3rz engines, these guys have a better design and don't need the timing chain service the the 2xr engines do. You could easily see 300-400k on a very well maintained specimen, but never a million miles. Maybe on a very well maintained, babied, mid sized diesel engine, but even then, a million miles is pushing it. The 3.4 didn't have the issues the 3.0 did. The 3.0 is an entirely different engine. The 3.0 was a SOHC that suffered from bad heat soak on #5 & #6 cylinders due to restrictive exhaust on the back collector and a weak bottom end. The 3.4 is an entirely different engine, DOHC, strong bottom end, modern fuel injection, etc. That being said, head gaskets can pop on anything. 2xr series for sure, just a little too much heat, first the head gasket goes then the head warps. Seen it, over and over and over and over. 7 hours ago, Totem said: side edit... it was the 3.x series 6 cylinder motors that blow the head gaskets and had the recalls in these RVS. Everyone in here knows that very well. the 22re were far more bulletproof and known mostly for wearing out water pumps or chain guides which when replaced with proper upgraded ones last "forever" (in a true 200k mile sense). As much as I really do love these little engines, I feel as if they have garnered a cult-like following. I have certainly seen them with 300-400k on the clock, but not without having gone through several sets of timing chain/tensioners and head gaskets first. Chain gets, loose, plastic guide breaks, timing chain wears hole in cover, water goes in oil, etc. They're prone to leak and they're noisy. They are easy to work on, parts are dirt cheap and they are reliable for sure. I don't want to come off as if I'm knocking the 2xr at all. But even when addressed with a steel backed guide, the chain eventually will get loose and break if not replaced. Hence the need for more preventative maintenance. The more these little engine scream, the more the chain stretches. Race and reliability don't exactly go hand in hand. Not saying your particular engine won't be reliable for years to come and I don't doubt your engine builder's skills either, I just can't see spending all that money for 20 more hp. I'd have kept the stocker in there. But hey, as long as you're happy that's what counts. Finally, I've lurked on this site for at least 7-8 years, this is one of the few times I've been inclined to type... Got to go. Feeling the need to research the TRUTH in automotive engineering... Quote
danny dan Posted April 19, 2018 Posted April 19, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, Jack M. said: There is definitely a lot to consider here. I suppose it does have a lot to do with what you want and how much time/money you have. There seems to be good reason for either building the 22 or swapping 3.4. Either seem like more practical options than swapping the truck for say, a newer Tacoma (we better not even start that conversation!). Going faster is not the primary issue. I think 65 is a very comfortable speed or maybe 70 sometimes if possible. My daily-driver for the last 20 years has been a performance Trans Am that can climb straight up a wall without slowing down. Very fun on winding mtn roads. Anyway, I get the same thrill driving my truck at 65 as the TA at ~120. ...both hands on the wheel, watching everything, focused. I'm ready to slow down and deal with life at a reasonable pace. ...but not THAT slow. To be fair, I was having other vehicle issues when I went through the mountains. The hood got slammed shut and I was low on ATF so I tried to limp back home, then made a wrong turn into the mountains. About two days into my trip the speedo stopped working but I imagine I was only going 20-25 at the end. It would have been less dangerous if I were going the pokey 45 I was getting on hills earlier. For me, one priority would be to fix the "goose fire poker" issue. It's just a little too nerve racking to drive when it sounds like it's about to explode. Bless it's soul with 200k+. The other thing would be power for ac/alt and hills. Sounds like a good step might be to replace the tranny with a better one, ...which I would want for either engine option?? Perhaps gear it for better low-end and sacrifice some of that blazing speed that I get on flat ground. My 3.4 swapped Itasca will cruise at 70 easy. It will do a lot more, but I'm not that brave. If you're sincerely looking at swaps, and liking the idea of a 4 cylinder you can find a 2rz/3rz out of a Tacoma pretty cheap. 2rz is fairly easy and inexpensive to boost with a load of aftermarket support and is reliable in the 300+/- range when boosted. Stock 3rz is good for around 150hp but not good for boost. These engines can easily see high miles without being opened up for more than a valve cover gasket. Likewise, the 5vz is great. So is the 1uz. None of these swaps would be without modification, but a slightly more modern obdII, distributor-less engine that makes substantially more power is always nice. The old 22re is gonna scream going down the road, especially trying to pull a hill. The rear chunk is easy to swap out with a lower gear range. You can add an air flow meter from an 82 Supra/Cressida with a higher flow filter and exhaust and net a few more ponies. This setup does work. I ran a set of the 4 hole Bosch injectors (same as Gm 3800 if I recall) that are marketed on Ebay as "Flame Thrower Injectors) in my '93 Toyota shop truck, but honestly couldn't tell much of a difference. Your transmission will depend on your swap choice. I'm assuming you have an A43d in your current setup, you'd only retain that if you're keeping it stock. I have at least six A43d transmission in the crate from Toyota. I've held onto them since the mid '90s but I imagine I should sell a few one day, lol. I imagine someone out there builds or at least supplies heavy duty torque converters for your trans. I know Trans-Go offers a valve body kit for the a340 trans, not sure about the a43D however. Lastly, I want to again apologize for hijacking the thread. This was not my intention and if an admin would care to move or start a new thread, I'm on board. Edited April 19, 2018 by danny dan Quote
Jack M. Posted April 20, 2018 Posted April 20, 2018 22 minutes ago, danny dan said: Lastly, I want to again apologize for hijacking the thread. This was not my intention and if an admin would care to move or start a new thread, I'm on board. It's my fault. I "Hi Jack" it first. I'm replacing my lights, because my truck is too slow on hills and I almost got ran over. So we started talking about that issue as well. I've been lurking around here for a few years also. I bought myself a can-o-worms (that's awesome!) so I'll probably be more active. I really appreciate every opinion. I've already discovered it can be a touchy subject because there's so many different things you can do (with time or money or skills). I'm a little short on all of the above so my projects will likely last forever. First step is to get running and get back out there. It's nice to hear from all of you. This is a "discussion" forum after all. It's good to get to talk about my truck with people who understand. Everyone else seems to think I'm a nut. This has been some great info so far. Can half of the thread be moved to an engine topic?? Either way, other guys who are working on their lights are probably dreaming about a stronger motor also. Quote
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