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Water leak


Douglas17313

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So, I'm getting my roof replaced and trusses installed to strengthen the roof and get rid of the air conditioner sag.  I stopped by the shop doing the work just after a rainstorm. What I found was a mess.  The tarp covering my unit leaked like a sieve.  Water was literally pouring from the roof through the lights, soaking the cushions and floor. The repair shop promised to make it right.  I had him pull the carpet and padding to minimize floor damage. The cabinets have to be replaced as well as the ceiling panels. My concern is electrical damage and wall damage.  Most water appears to have entered the passenger side. What should I look for and what should I demand as a repair/replacement?

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Also, I was willing to put 7 to 8 thousand into this unit.  It has 37K miles and was in super condition. I wanted to modernize it with solar, new water heater, possibly tankless, and a complete interior remodel.  Is it worth it now? I would have had $11K into the unit upon completion of everything I wanted to do to it. The roof issue was being repaired and strengthens due to sag around the a/c.

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How much did you pay for your rig? If you could provide pictures other more knowledgeable members could comment. Looks like a law suit possibly but how could you collect? What kind of shop is that who would cause such extensive damage? I've read other posters state once water gets into the walls and ceiling it's impossible to dry it out causing a complete tear out and replacement due to mold and such. Don't know about the floor. Probably costs thousands to fix if it's as bad as you state. If your a competent carpenter not so much. I'm NO expert. I feel your pain Man!! Good Luck!

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I paid 3500 for the unit.  I've put 1600 into mechanical repairs. It runs like a top.  I got a really good deal in it.  It WAS very solid.  It was well worth the 11K investment, to include the price.

20170304_110705.jpg

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It will be hard for anyone to comment on without pictures. Sorry!

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Understood.  The shop owner has contacted me concerning the damage. I reported to him the response by you on the "boards". His reply was that he is willing to do a complete teardown from the outside in, replace the walls, insulation ceiling tiles, carpet and pad, light fixtures, upholstery - anything that it takes to make it whole. The Gulfsteam Conquest uses aluminium framing in the walls. He has stated that he will remove the windows and start  from there.  He's fired the worker responsible, which I hate to see anyone loose a job. He's even offered to install a solar system at no charge.  He's asked me to pick the upholstery I'd like to have the interior redone in.  He's being extremely fair.  All in all though, I liked my time capsule the way it was.

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8 hours ago, Douglas17313 said:

I paid 3500 for the unit.  I've put 1600 into mechanical repairs. It runs like a top.  I got a really good deal in it.  It WAS very solid.  It was well worth the 11K investment, to include the price.

20170304_110705.jpg

Hey! I had (before the teardown) this very version except for the swap between the kitchen and the bathroom. Your purchase was indeed a good deal.

If they do it right, you will be better off with the renovation except for the lost use time. The aluminium isnt really as much protection as you hope it would be. Personally I found you end up gutting any and all wood that is touched by water. Not sure if thry used marine grade but it delaminates and loses all its strength if its soaked in water. The roof is aluminium but the slightest scratch causes a hole, deceptively ruining everything while you take comfort in it being metal covered.

The AC wiring might weather it, but the 12V is often just exposed wires of relatively poor gauge. It is ad hoc wiring with no color consistency. At least provide the exposed cables a sleeve this time.

Most of the particle board -- thats your counters,drawers and such will turn to powder too. Its a mess and I am dealing with it by scrapping pretty much most of it. On the positive side, I will have relatively modern materials if I can resurrect it.

ps: This was water seepage damage if you drench it, the osb is probably going to go to mush and then warp.

 

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I agree about the aluminum roof.  As part of the rebuild of the roof, I am having the original aluminum roof replaced with a much stronger aluminum.  The new sheet is much thicker and is the same thickness and type used in the sides of semi trailers.

The "wood" of the cabinets had already began warping.  All the fake wood is being replaced. My worry is the wiring and electrical portions failing soon if not later.

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Hey Douglas that's great news! If possible I'd personally look @ all the repairs in various stages to make sure its done right. My aluminum roof is heavy gauge also. Very sturdy but does flex when you walk on it. Getting rid of the fake wood paneling (see my post "Grannie got a face lift!") will make you rig look bigger and modern. What is the shop doing about the floor? When the walls are gone have them rewiring the 12 volt lines. Don't know about the cabinets. They can replace all the counter tops as they will probably warp also. Keep up posted!

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I had them rip out the carpet and padding as soon as I found the water.  Also had them remove the dining area to keep water from wicking up the fiberboard.  If that was too late, it will be replaced. After ripping out the carpet and padding, two large industrial dryers were put into the rig to get the floor dry. I agree, seeing the stages of repair is extremely important.  The cabinets on the passenger side were already bubbling. Those are a goner. 

The walls on the driver side didnt have water running down them.  There was no water in the wardobe and the drawers beneath it were all dry. The wardrobe wall is where the status panel is located, so i may have dodged that bullet.

Edited by Douglas17313
Misspelling
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Went out to inspect the camper in good weather today.  The jacknife couch and dinette had been removed. Damp carpet still on the floor.  No water got under the jacknife or seems to have affected anything on the driver side wall.  Passenger side overhead cabinet is a mess.  Light fixtures full of water.  Shop owner swears no water went down the wall between the paneling and insulation, not really comfortable with that assumption, there's also the possibility of wicking. Wiring is something he doesn't want to touch.  He says he'll test it, but I worry about long term effects. It's also my understanding that with some of these units, cabinets were attached to the frames before the walls went up thereby requiring the fiberglass outside walls to be removed just to get to the cabinet hardware.

I really appreciate your thoughts and observations.  Thank you in advance.

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2 hours ago, Douglas17313 said:

Went out to inspect the camper in good weather today.  The jacknife couch and dinette had been removed. Damp carpet still on the floor.  No water got under the jacknife or seems to have affected anything on the driver side wall.  Passenger side overhead cabinet is a mess.  Light fixtures full of water.  Shop owner swears no water went down the wall between the paneling and insulation, not really comfortable with that assumption, there's also the possibility of wicking. Wiring is something he doesn't want to touch.  He says he'll test it, but I worry about long term effects. It's also my understanding that with some of these units, cabinets were attached to the frames before the walls went up thereby requiring the fiberglass outside walls to be removed just to get to the cabinet hardware.

I really appreciate your thoughts and observations.  Thank you in advance.

Douglas, the cabinets are easy to take down. You will be left with a lot of screw holes but they are after the walls, wallpaper and all.

Take off the window on the passanger side  or peel off the wallpaper.  Moisture meters are cheap. Get one, and poke through every 6 inches to make sure.

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24 minutes ago, linda s said:

Now I'm worried. Please tell me your taking pictures of everything. He left the wet carpet on the floor? He's an RV repair guy who doesn't do wiring?

Linda S

The carpets are a pain in the behind to take off in this version. They run under the sofa, the kitchenette, everywhere! They installed full carpet before building anything. And the backing is very light foam. Kind of like the dish washing pad. Soaks in water and holds it. Its a job to get that out of there. The carpet runs under even the kichenette/bathroom wall.  Yuck.

ps: except on the floor, this is how the cables run, bare unprotected and cobbled together with quick connect patches.

 

 

IMG_20170805_231250.JPG

Edited by neubie
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8 hours ago, neubie said:

The carpets are a pain in the behind to take off in this version. They run under the sofa, the kitchenette, everywhere! They installed full carpet before building anything.

This is a common RV production method. A lot easier (for them) when building them. A lot easier than trimming around later. Not so easy 30 years later when trying to change flooring.

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First of all I want to say thank, 1000 times thank you for your excellent advice.  I bought two moisture meters today, the type with pins and the type that senses water behind sealed walls.  I then spoke with the shop owner and told him I was coming back.  Yesterday he'd hired a professional company to do a complete remodel. A representative from The company met me at The shop and was waiting in my rv.   The company was totally aware of moisture issues in an RV.  Anywhere the meters indicated moisture that area was marked for replacement.  As a result of all of your advice, the entire roof,  ceiling, wiring, cabinets, floor, carpet, ALL of the walls (even those that didn't get wet) are being replaced for uniformity. In addition, the shop owner is throwing in all labor charges for the installation of a new hot water heater and a 3 panel Renogy solar power system.

So, as a result of all of your knowledge and willingness to share, taking the time to reply, advise and send pictures, THANK YOU.

SINCERELY,  THANK YOU.

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good luck to you douglas. its not an easy thing to get through or over. Heck I have a hard time getting over my own screw ups. But you seem to have run into at least a responsible business. keep track of the progress and keep looking towards the big picture of having a reliable vehicle after this.

ps: linda -- know anybody who paints aluminium roof around your workplace? still looking for any rv smart mechanics that aren't going to take advantage just because they can.

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Good for you Douglas! Sounds like a Great shop. It seems your Toy will be better now than before. Please post pictures if you can.

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by looking at the sidewall  and roof.that has to be one weak coach. there should be more studs in the sidewall and roof . just like a house they should still be close to 16 inches apart. my sun land has aluminum sidewall  studs every 16 inches and roof studs every 22 inches. to be honest there is either a lot of aluminum studs missing in the roof and sidewall or both  wood and aluminum missing .I've worked on hundreds of rv's  and never seen a coach with that weak of a framing.

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12 hours ago, Derek up North said:

The steel (aluminum) in the roof is original? Do I detect that the door is steel framed as well? What about the walls from what you see?

The roof was original. The door frames in these conquests, as well as door frame are aluminium. There is a large L bracket under the fridge that holds the wall on passanger side and another angle on the driver side that does double duty of holding the wall and the bed/sofa up.

It is a crappy weak design. In my rehash of it, I am adding framing where the roof is missing support. Going to 1/4 inch ply instead of 1/8, adding roof fastners etc. Cant do much about windows unfortunately.

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31 minutes ago, jdfrost64 said:

by looking at the sidewall  and roof.that has to be one weak coach. there should be more studs in the sidewall and roof . just like a house they should still be close to 16 inches apart. my sun land has aluminum sidewall  studs every 16 inches and roof studs every 22 inches. to be honest there is either a lot of aluminum studs missing in the roof and sidewall or both  wood and aluminum missing .I've worked on hundreds of rv's  and never seen a coach with that weak of a framing.

They went with aluminium strips stuck below the rigid insulation, you can see one in one of the walls. And they forgot (saved money) on actual framing.

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This is the first that I am seeing the side walls without the interior paneling.  From pics of other Gulfstream of the same year and model an aluminum frame is used as support with minimal wood. Aluminum framing should be on the outside of the visible wood. I'm checking on that with the rebuilder now.   As far as the roof goes, there were trusses across the roof about, didn't measure, 16" to 24" apart.  What I had originally contracted to have done was to replace those wood trusses with, or augment them with steel supports. The roof had a 3 inch sag around the A/C. In addition steel frames for the A/C and supporting vents are being framed in the same steel for extra support and are to be attached to the cross members.  After the flood mishap, all of the wood trusses are being removed and replaced with steel supports. Weighing each support, they are well within a tolerance for extra weight that I felt was of little to no consequence. 

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