stamar Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 ok and what gas mileage did I say it got.... 35 mpg? I said the asian market van gets 35 mpg... lol using my estimate i was .6 mpg off derek..... whereas jd was 20 mpg off....based on the teenage argument basis of throw it whatever and argue numbers. I dunno. lol. Im laughing at you not with you as usual. Are you positive theres anything Ive said thats worth arguing with like a child you two? Cause I get embarrassed for you.. Im glad to give you both the opportunity to read about two vehicles you obviously know absolutely nothing about....keep reading. I said hey theres the two motorhomes that get the best gas mileage......"NO THEY DONT" Oh yeah they do...... everything about them was exactly as you said. Ha. all the contradictions were 100% wrong like they always are it gets old. I dont want to struggle with it I want to put you on ignore somehow. It will add up to anyone reading really fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 HMMM. Looks like it's Officially 33.6MPG(Imp) which is EXACTLY 26.88MPG(US). Source (as always):- http://www.car-emissions.com/cars/model/TOYOTA/Hiace Seems your "over 35MPG(US)" ESTIMATE is a bit off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 its been great having a discussion about the motorhomes with the best gas mileage with two teenagers who want to argue with facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 and are those listed as average? and is average the same as what we list as highway or is it city? Which would it be closer to? Is that an older model? Because I showed you its listed at 43 mpg, the newest one. Ill tell you what. Stop posting and then come back with a full report and ill tell you what grade you get 48 actual hours. what do you think about the article i gave you to read about the offroad track that the hiace got 43 mpg on? Dont post I mean Im asking you not to post at all I mean gather as much data as you can... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Remember, READ 3 TIMES. The link I posted covered 2007 - 2011. The 33.6MPG(Imp) is 'combined'. If you take the time to re-read YOUR link (3 times), you'll see that it dates from 2002. "Think twice, post once." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 I think the diesel chevette is also the same engine in the isuzu diesel truck. as far as gas mileage per liter and weight, the m21 would beat all the diesel engines you listed, even the jetta. it is a 2.4 though. port injection sohc more modern than all the ones you own or list. There is NO such thing as a "port injection" diesel engine. And an overhead cam inself does nothing to make an engine more efficient; Modern diesels are common-rail direct injection (inside the combustion chamber) and electronically controlled. Diesels from the early 90s and back are mechanically injected. Between the two versions I've seen few "leaps" in better fuel mileage. My 1982 Chevy 1/2 ton 4WD full size diesel truck can get 24 MPG. A brand new Chevy HD truck with the high-tech Isuzu Duramax (common rail DI turbo intercooled diesel) gets a bit less then that on an empty highway cruise. Same goes for many comparisons. My 1992 Dodge W200 with extended cab, 4WD, and Cummins mechanically injected turbo diesel gets a best of 20 MPG. My neighbor has a 2010 Dodge 3/4 ton 4WD with the newest electronically controlled Cummins diesel and he can barely get 17 MPG on an empty highway trip. The new high-tech diesels - as compared to the old ones - start better in the cold, have less emissions, and sound less like diesels. They also make gobs of torque - but fuel effficiency has gone virtually nowhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Here are some figures for various years of the Toyota Hiace. The best diesels are getting the same MPGs a gas powered Honday Odyessy van gets in the USA. This one is a projection of fuel mileage from the United Kingdom government (sort of like our EPA in the USA). 2006 fuel mileage estimate from the UK government. 2.5 diesel in Toyota Hiace. Mixed driving in Imperial gallons – 33.6 MPG (27.9 MPG USA). Urban-cold – 26.4 MPG (21.9 MPG USA). http://uk-car-fuel-emissions.findthedata.org/l/2742/Hiace Here's a 2010 model: 2010 Hiace specs (not reports) the diesel has a 3lt turbo supposedly 8.6lt/100Km @ $37500 (27.3 MPG in USA and 32.8 MPG in Canada and Europe). petrol 11.6lts/100Km @ $338500 (20.2 MPG USA and 24 MPG in Canada and Europe). Here's some info from Hiace owners in Australia. There are hundreds of fuel logs and all pretty consistent: 1981 Hiace diesel: Have filled up with fuel and now have some figures. solar. By the way Myrtle is a 1981 model. Ok, I travelled 300 ks from a full tank, I have just refilled and it took 38.88 litres. Might as well say 39 litres, I'm sure I could have dribbled that little bit in. So my estimations are it is using 13 litres per 100 ks. That’s 18 MPG USA and 21.7 MPG in Canada. 83 Toyoace light truck with 14 ft van -- 2'2 diesel gives me 10 litre per 100 kmh. That’s 23.5 MPG USA and 28.2 MPG in Canada. Vixen turbo-diesel reports: From the owner of the 66th Vixen built: "The worst fuel economy I’ve seen so far is 22 mpg and the best was around 25 MPG." I bought it after looking at too many GMCs and pondering the 7-8 mpg that they get. I had already decided that I needed something bigger than a VW camper but something less than a house on wheels. Driving the Vixen is a lot less hairy an experience than driving the GMC or larger RVs. Both wander a bit in crosswinds, but the Vixen is barely bigger than a Chevy van. My wife’s Tundra pickup is 1-1/2 foot longer if the tailgate is dropped horizontal. Acceleration is admittedly leisurely but it will cruise nicely at 70 or 75 mph. Empty weight on ours is 5700 lbs. From Car and Driver magazine test that showed 21 MPG. Car & Driver magazine. The Vixen pictured here is from our October 1986 issue. The Vixen motorhome was fairly radical for a rolling residence—low, wide, and streamlined. It was powered by a 114-hp BMW-Steyr diesel mated to a Renault-sourced five-speed manual transaxle, and weighed just 5880 pounds. Performance wasn’t sparkling by car standards—it reached 60 mph in 21.8 seconds—but the Vixen was quick for an RV and achieved an astounding 21 mpg in our hands (the manufacturer rated it at 33 mpg at a steady 55-mph cruise). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I owned both a BMW diesel and a VW diesel and I can tell you hands down the TDI was light years ahead of the the BMW in fuel economy by 20 MPG and a good bit faster I might add. I had two customers years ago with BMW powered Vixen's with the 5 spd. trans there mileage was in the low 20's range. Shoot a 5 cylinder Sprinter only does low 20's empty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Hmmm. Vixen @ 5880lbs, BMW 524 @ 3263lbs (a 2617lb difference). I could have sworn some 'expert'* on the net said there was only 1000 - 1200lb difference? Perhaps he was thinking in kilograms? http://www.ehow.com/list_7372936_bmw-524-specs.html * "Don't believe everything you read on the internet." - Abraham Lincoln Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 It says the vixen is around 5000 lbs in its specs. But its great you looked stuff up. Ii guess The purposse of the vixen was to mae a 30 mpg motorhome and all of them do. You can add weight to anything I guess. All these quotes are weird garbage actually. The orignal one said a vixen got 18 mpg but its impossible. No doubt it gets 22 or less around town my toyhome gets less that 10 mpg around town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Which bmw diesel did you own maineah? Because other than the last few years the onlly one sold in america was the 524. Its extremely rare It does get better gas milleage being a jetta versus a bmw 5 series. But not by much as the bmw is more fuel efficient.... The vw tdi engine is a lot smaller with a smaller car as well. As far as engine tech its behind a m21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Ya that's totally crazy you must have had a mercedes diesel. It defys the odds that either of you have actually owned a bmw diesel of which there are very few in total. In fact I don't believe it at all ill just say that. There is no way. You mean a mercedew diesel which is very common liike a 300sd which does get in the 20s Very slow ohc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 It says the vixen is around 5000 lbs in its specs. Direct link, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Wikipedia vixen In fact every single link says 5100 pounds goofy. The one that says it weighs 5800 is the garbage one Although imm sure later models did its an rv they can add whatevr they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Ah, yes. Wikipedia. Always accurate. Well, 5100lbs is still a 1837lb difference, 50%+ more than the 'expert' said before. Princess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 That's the problem trying to discuss something with imature people they just twist garbage and then the facts are lost If my toyota rv gets 17 mpg. A vixen gets 30 mpg. If it gets 25 at freeway speeds that makes sense. If a vixen gets 18 mpg in everyday use be@aus its a 5000 lb rv. Then my toyhome gets less than 10 mpg because its a 6000 lb rv. Compare the apples to the apples. I said orignally the hi ace gets oover 30 mpg freeway because it does all things say it. If you find a stat that says it does less combined that's just garbage to confuse. Ii looked over all mmy facts and going just on memory it turns out they were all correct. And tons of childish contradiction Comparing between vehcles needs a common point. I will repeat you are childish derrick and just preventing straight facts or even an intelligent conversation with teen contradiction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Sometimes I have time to look through all your garbage and see why you're confused and sometimes I don't. A 524 should weigh around 4000 lbs..... and that's around 1200 lbs less. Whatever you are posting is again comparing the wrong numbers for no worthwhile purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I've owned a 2000 Alh TDI beetle and own an e300td (1998) Mercedes . I got 47 mpg in the Vw and regularly get 34-37 in the Merc, which is turbo'd and a straight 6 and I am pretty sure it would far out perform a 22re and for that matter smoke most of today's sedans in mpg. It cost me $6500. I personally am still laughing at the comment that diesels are "more expensive to maintain".. LOL . Don't need tune ups, oil changes etc nearly as often and cost per mile is far less. But don't take the EPAs word for it, find out for yourself if you can find one for sale buy it. Personally I have avoided the "modern day common rail" diesels. Can't feed them garbage in a pinch like you can with a pre chambered injection. My motor wouldn't like being fed peanut oil in July but I'm confident I could for a bit if I had to... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Direct link to anyone who claimed a 524td weighs 2500lb. Please. Princess. A 524 should weigh around 4000 lbs..... and that's around 1200 lbs less. The link I gave (and which you apparently didn't read 3 times) listed the 524td @ 3263lb. If you've a direct link to something other than your memory showing 4000lbs, please provide it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Which bmw diesel did you own maineah? Because other than the last few years the onlly one sold in america was the 524. Its extremely rare It does get better gas milleage being a jetta versus a bmw 5 series. But not by much as the bmw is more fuel efficient.... The vw tdi engine is a lot smaller with a smaller car as well. As far as engine tech its behind a m21 The same BMW diesel that the Vixen and BMW cars had was also used in the Ford/Lincoln Continental around 1984 or 85. My boss had one. Mark IV as I recall. Got a best of around 27 MPG which was good at the time when diesel fuel was substantially cheaper then regular gasoline and had more BTU energy then the ultra-low-sulfur diesel has now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 That is true. Its also in seeveral european cars. I go to a bmw forum too and there are no owners of this car in the us so believe me I'm more than doubtful the two of you or your buddies had one. Personal gas mileage on one car is impossible to really compare different models with but whatever. Your buddy had a lincoln and he told you some gas mileage let me write that down.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I personally am still laughing at the comment that diesels are "more expensive to maintain".. LOL . I worked for many years as a diesel mechanic and also worked in two Stanadyne/Bosch injector pump shops. I in turn . . get a laugh at your silliness. Do you know how to repair an in-line or rotary-distributor injection pump? I bet not. Do you know how to reseat or "renozzle" injectors and set them up correctly? I bet not. Do you own a diesel timing light? Do you know any local shops that own one or even know what one is? How about a luminosty probe to check timing advance in a prechamber IDI diesel? The reality is few car and small truck mechanics who get by repairing gas engines now hardly anything about mechanical diesels. Due to that collective ignorance and scarcity of some parts - prices to maintain are often very expensive. A gas engine has a carb (or EFI system) for fuel delivery. Gas engine has a electric ignition system for spark to the spark plugs. In a older mechanical diesel the functions of the gas engines ignition and fuel system are all inside the injection pump. A "magic" little box that most shops are afraid to touch. Just remove and replace when suspect. Most older mechanically injected diesels had problems by 100K miles but - they went unnoticed, unfixed. Engines still ran but performance would degrade slowly. Injectors got neglected since they were not changed easily or cheaply like spark plugs. Timing advance was near impossible to check by most. Say what you want - but the reality is - unless you do your own diesel repair work - they can be extremely expensive if something goes wrong. In regard to general maintenance - diesels tend to hold more engine oil then their gas counterparts and fuel and oil filters are more pricey. Older diesels also require more frequent oil changes. That all being said - years back a person could buy a diesel VW Rabbit or Chevy Chevette diesel for low bucks new, get 40-50 MPG and drive them to 200K miles with very little repairs if well cared for. They WERE bargains. Also an older Mercedes with an in-line injection pump was almost indestructible, although fuel mileage was not all that impressive. Now a new diesel pickup truck can cost $50-$60,000, maintenance is very expensive, and fuel mileage if anything has gone down hill. Not worth it in my world. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 That is true. Its also in seeveral european cars. I go to a bmw forum too and there are no owners of this car in the us so believe me I'm more than doubtful the two of you or your buddies had one. Personal gas mileage on one car is impossible to really compare different models with but whatever. Your buddy had a lincoln and he told you some gas mileage let me write that down.... My boss had the diesel Lincoln and I did all the repair work on it. He owned the diesel shop I worked at. It was the only diesel repair shop within a 75 mile radius and I was the shop manager and head mechanic. So we got many oddball diesels in for repair. There used to be quite a few diesel Lincolns and Ford Rangers around. I had a diesel Ford Escort for awhile (a real piece of junk). I'm trying to read between your lines Stamar. Are you trying to call me a liar in some indirect way? If so, be a man and say it clearly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 W I have definitely seen the escort diesel around. Um sure I have a certain level of plausibilty. It doesn't matter either way I actually don't care. It doesn't matter its just that there are more like 50 to 100 bmw 524 tds in the us and you and maineah drove them around. Whereas there's more like 500 vixens. So who even cares iit just deOfys belief. I don't believe it no I think most of what you say is bs yes. Any and all listings. Particularly any real life measurements they all turn out to be based on weird crap and have no relevance to the world. Like the 18 mpg vixen. Or the 125 watt solar paneled refrigerator. Or the two pounds of propane a day refrigerator. Its all kind of a fantasy twisted to be exagerated. Its a pathological thing. Yes that's my opinion. It doesn't matter at all what gas mileage your friends lincold got compared to a vixen. A vixen might get better gas mileage. That's a worthless fact if it is true. But its very peculiar to have talked to so many rare engined car owners yes.it helps figure out relative gas mileage zero percent but its weird. I talked to bmw owners and they said if got mid thirties I think that's even what you said 34. Which is a lot more than the 300 td which is all it is. Its more advanced than the old school diesel, by at least 5 mpg...that's what it did that's what it does. A mid technology diesel engine we as americans didn't get to use. Other than you and maineah. You used several of them actually. All the different models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 ... there are no owners of this car in the us... ... its just that there are more like 50 to 100 bmw 524 tds in the us ... So which is it? What happened in 15 minutes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Btw it needs a different thread and it sounds liike it would be more than your fav subject. But there's amazing diesels in asia and europe that have come out in just the last two years. None in an rv or truck or even a sprinter. But mazda has dohc vtectype engines areo something that use modern gas engine tech in diesel and get over 60 mpg in the mazda 3. And that's probably 15 mpg in derreks real life google searching. But why aren't we allowed to use those? In its day the bmw m21 was like that it was leading edge tech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Reading comprehension as usual There are no owners in the us on the bmw forum derrick. There are few owners in the us unknown amount. Go find us one you've got free time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 This is pretty simple. If you compare real life figures to advertised figures .... you're not ready for a comparable mpg of vehicles discussion. If you compare apples to oranges, to what your buddy got to other diiesel cars that look the same to ehow.com to whatever... What you've got is a load of crap. You are just not ready for car conversation. No way around iit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 http://harrisburg.craigslist.org/ctd/3504900527.html http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/cto/3478939542.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 2 for sale in the whole us? there was one for sale in eugene last year non running when I was flipping cars. In fact thats when I saw the vixen and thought about it. overall very rare in general you never owned one or saw one. probably about 50-100 out there in the us is overestimating it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 http://www.thetrutha...eles-auto-show/ here we go 2014 the diesel mazda 6. 42 mpg in a large car. actually less than the bmw 524. anyhow thats what you want in your.... vixen or lesharo. rialta. 300 lb ft torque that would tow a boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I worked for many years as a diesel mechanic and also worked in two Stanadyne/Bosch injector pump shops. I in turn . . get a laugh at your silliness. Do you know how to repair an in-line or rotary-distributor injection pump? I bet not. Do you know how to reseat or "renozzle" injectors and set them up correctly? I bet not. Do you own a diesel timing light? Do you know any local shops that own one or even know what one is? How about a luminosty probe to check timing advance in a prechamber IDI diesel? The reality is few car and small truck mechanics who get by repairing gas engines now hardly anything about mechanical diesels. Due to that collective ignorance and scarcity of some parts - prices to maintain are often very expensive. A gas engine has a carb (or EFI system) for fuel delivery. Gas engine has a electric ignition system for spark to the spark plugs. In a older mechanical diesel the functions of the gas engines ignition and fuel system are all inside the injection pump. A "magic" little box that most shops are afraid to touch. Just remove and replace when suspect. Most older mechanically injected diesels had problems by 100K miles but - they went unnoticed, unfixed. Engines still ran but performance would degrade slowly. Injectors got neglected since they were not changed easily or cheaply like spark plugs. Timing advance was near impossible to check by most. Say what you want - but the reality is - unless you do your own diesel repair work - they can be extremely expensive if something goes wrong. In regard to general maintenance - diesels tend to hold more engine oil then their gas counterparts and fuel and oil filters are more pricey. Older diesels also require more frequent oil changes. That all being said - years back a person could buy a diesel VW Rabbit or Chevy Chevette diesel for low bucks new, get 40-50 MPG and drive them to 200K miles with very little repairs if well cared for. They WERE bargains. Also an older Mercedes with an in-line injection pump was almost indestructible, although fuel mileage was not all that impressive. Now a new diesel pickup truck can cost $50-$60,000, maintenance is very expensive, and fuel mileage if anything has gone down hill. Not worth it in my world. . My Tuffy here has all that and does all that JD, and that's in ill old Marshall Michigan. Their mech is ex Marine corp diesel guy. Not as rare a breed as you think unfortunately. Being that we engineer parts for diesels at work we also have a cult following of disel owners here at the shop. Sorry to burst your bubble, our vehicles run just fine and quite cheap...we have all the tools mentioned we also have a CNC and can make whatever we like, an electronics lab etc...Vag com, CAN, etc. all of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Also my mb filters cost me 5$ a piece and recommend change interval on the om606 is 10k, gas is 3k. Thanks for playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Which bmw diesel did you own maineah? Because other than the last few years the onlly one sold in america was the 524. Its extremely rare It does get better gas milleage being a jetta versus a bmw 5 series. But not by much as the bmw is more fuel efficient.... The vw tdi engine is a lot smaller with a smaller car as well. As far as engine tech its behind a m21 My 85 524 BMW around 30-35 MPG the TDI 50-55 regular as clock work my daily commute was over a hundred miles. There is a lot to be said for direct injected diesels. I did not keep the BMW long bought it cheap and sold it high. The 320i 1.8L gas engine of my wife's did slightly better on fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Stamar, that was me that has the OM606 Mercedes btw, a rare car also, 1998 maybe 50k made tops in 97-99. I assure you I am in the 30s and its not using CDI or any common rail tech. Is 1998 considered "old" in this discussion guys? My transmission is one of the old "maintenance free" chryslers and sports a winter and summer drive mode which also effects mileage. I'm having fun reading all of this diesel hyperbole in here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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