Totem Posted August 26, 2015 Author Share Posted August 26, 2015 *** Update*** Turns out 5toyota was the correct guess on this one... I finally got mad enough to take this on... and crawled under and unbolted the tank. 4 bolts that easily came off tank dropped easy. shaking revealed empty... so I got out the crescent and removed the fill valve... she was 100% empty and the auto stop fill valve broken off stuck shut. . dropping the tank also seems to have "unstuck" the guage from reading full. its now reading below empty. I took the tank which was seriously peeling and rusty over to my local Napa auto center and they are bead blasting it and removed the bad auto stop fill valve. I am picking her up on Friday and plan to coat it with POR15; and will need to put a new fill valve in. I am replacing the regulator with a 2 stage selector regulator with and extra entry point to plug up an auxiliary tank if need be; I figured why not at this point. Thanks to all for their opines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I think after exposure to air your supposed to have the tank purged before refilling. No oxygen must be left in the tank. Local propane place should know but not that old guy Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_M Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 *** Update*** Turns out 5toyota was the correct guess on this one... I finally got mad enough to take this on... and crawled under and unbolted the tank. 4 bolts that easily came off tank dropped easy. shaking revealed empty... so I got out the crescent and removed the fill valve... she was 100% empty and the auto stop fill valve broken off stuck shut. . dropping the tank also seems to have "unstuck" the guage from reading full. its now reading below empty. I took the tank which was seriously peeling and rusty over to my local Napa auto center and they are bead blasting it and removed the bad auto stop fill valve. I am picking her up on Friday and plan to coat it with POR15; and will need to put a new fill valve in. I am replacing the regulator with a 2 stage selector regulator with and extra entry point to plug up an auxiliary tank if need be; I figured why not at this point. Thanks to all for their opines. Post pictures of the tank when you get it installed. I really would like to do this to my tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrel Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I have been reading this thread and realized that my tank was not purged. Let my go back a bit. Last summer my fill valve broke and would not let propane into the tank. A plastic part broke, inside the valve, and wouldn't allow propane to enter. Sure wish I had taken pictures, didn't and through the valve away. I went to a propane fill area and had a new valve installed. It cost $20 with no labor charge. A very good price. They filled the tank without purging it. Now I googled how to purge a propane tank and found out why to purge an propane tank is so important and how to do it. Back to someone to get is purged. You ask how to empty a propane tank. Use-up the propane. The propane distributers have a large burner that is on a long pipe sticking in the air. Lite it and burn off the propane. I used a weed burner and burned up the gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted August 27, 2015 Author Share Posted August 27, 2015 Well, my fill valve is bad.. Its coming out and new one going in. Not sure how that can be accomplished without introducing "air" into the tank. Purging will be next on the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Toyota Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 well on the one I did I never heard anything about purging or thought about. as far as I know I put the new bleeder setup and filler neck on and he took it and said it filled up fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Toyota Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 let us know about purging it. I never heard about that. all I know he filled it up after I fixed it and it worked great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted August 27, 2015 Author Share Posted August 27, 2015 http://home.earthlink.net/~derekgore/rvroadiervfulltimingwhatisitreallylike/id45.html I plan on having the LP shop purge the tank after install. above is a great read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Air contains moisture, water vapor will freeze in a regulator not a good thing because it's no longer a regulator. An open empty tank will have air in it. That is why they need to be purged it can not be purged with liquid propane it is purged with propane vapor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Toyota Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 very good important info. I knew about new tank purging . but did not think about used tanks. I feel shure the place he took it would of done it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted August 28, 2015 Author Share Posted August 28, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted August 28, 2015 Author Share Posted August 28, 2015 So above is the tank picked up today. Some info... acme tanks like these need not be certified again. don't throw out your tank!!! Scored quick fill valve eBay 8$; bleeder 5$ new. Bead blasting was 25$ and it stunk up Napa bad.. better their shop than mine. bye bye auto stop!... also found cause of gauge failure.. teeth worn out will take pic.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted August 28, 2015 Author Share Posted August 28, 2015 So here is the worn teeth just push them back in Gauge fixed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted August 28, 2015 Author Share Posted August 28, 2015 Last step left painting with por15 .. new tanks are $700-$1400 bucks!! Great DIY savings ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted August 29, 2015 Author Share Posted August 29, 2015 Here is the procedure and parts. Again many thanks to 5toy who just saved me $1000 .. http://arts-attic.com/blog/?p=279 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Toyota Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 one can only wonder what the people who dreamed up this pice of junk where thinking. but I need a truck load of these. to take to the junkers. so I can spend the money on camping lol. got to be the only good place for them. TOTEM enjoy simplcty and plenty of propane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted August 29, 2015 Author Share Posted August 29, 2015 Just finished second coat of por15. This used 1full small can of por15 for those that were wondering. Tank coating should outlive me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Darn it. I was hoping to be able to ignore this stuff but now it's looking so darn good I might have to consider doing something similar myself. When you install the new valves are you going to use the gas tape on the threads? Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Yellow gas tape or Gasola pipe dope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted August 29, 2015 Author Share Posted August 29, 2015 I used dope, lp & Ng compatible. Now I stuff rag and wait for eBay delivery.... gauge goes in straight down showing 50% full. Works perfect now. Torqued these down about twitch my hernia tight, will soap test off compressor when get the NEW parts. Favorite addition is this new regulator... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted August 29, 2015 Author Share Posted August 29, 2015 Now have optional grill tank hookup with tank selector regulator. Nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapaFred Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Nice indeed! U got it goin on Totem! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Toyota Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 you will enjoy and that is very nice.i want to here how it fills and how it all works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_M Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 No kidding! Great job Totem! I have the same tank and will do the same! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 **update** tank is installed. I couldn't wait for the parts and mounted it and everything else I had left. I decided I wanted to try the auxiliary grill tank. It fired the burners right up... But... Ok here is where I need help.. The gas flow is a smidgen ( and I mean tiny not an Obama smidgen) too forceful... I can light the burners on stove, that is if I get my best lighter because it's blowing out my weaker lighters that don't have mongo flames. Do I need to adjust the regulator/vent? I thought these new ones were preset... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 Never mind all is well .. Wife reminded me the burners always are like that, tested the fridge with service panel open and it lit the dometic refer perfect.Parts list:Bleeder $5Fill valve $8Can por15 $6Sandblasting tank at Napa auto $25Grill tank hose $15Dual tank regulator $15Reused gauge $0Total cost $74. Time invested about 3 hours of my time not including dry time.Cheapest similar tank on Amazon was north of $375 and was just the tank...glad I saved.Being able to hookup grill tank when out of gas on main... Priceless.Notes to others : ASME horizontal mount and horizontal fill tanks like the ones that came with our toys are certified for life, dot tanks are not. I leak down tested my work with soapy water and used pipe dope on all threads, I would advise others to check with local regulations and Laws before attempting this; that being said I feel restoring the old tank was fun and educational. When the parts come I plan on taking it to the old cranky gas guy for purge, approval and apology. I will be the one apologizing as he was correct it was the tank not the gas operator that was the problem. The auto stop valve has a date with the target range; it will be shot with .308 from an m1a. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted September 9, 2015 Author Share Posted September 9, 2015 **update** propane fitting for standard forklift and the other bleeder part 5toy mentioned arrived and went in with no troubles... What gave me more trouble was finding a propane shop that truly knows how to vapor purge.. Purging must be done 6 times , no liquid vapor only. Filling the tank with anything other than another tank is not licensed . The only other legal purge is vacuum. Crystal flash was the only company I called that knew what the heck I was asking for and even asked me why I needed a purge. Told them the story they said no problem bring in will purge 6 times to 98.5%. Nice guys... Going in tomorrow. Hopefully driving with no marker lights is ok during the day time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted September 9, 2015 Author Share Posted September 9, 2015 Well I took her in today for purge and leakdown test... Fail. Epic fail. the only parts that weren't leaking were the new ones.; i.e. the spitter valve and the filler valve were good. The fuel gauge and the service valve were leaking. the guy at crystal didn't even charge me, and said, take it home torque em down and come back and we'll try again. He was a great insight and very friendly, told me several propane stories. I tried not to tear up and cry ... knowing I have to drop the tank AGAIN... in order to tighten the gauge and service valve. I had put them on "hernia twitch" tight; that's to say they twitched my hernia a bit and I stopped and felt they should be good. Nope, be advised when they vapor purge they hit your tank with much higher PSI than standard service and also soap the fittings... which is a good thing. Now my two new brass fittings that did not leak... well I put those on so tight that I have absolutely no way to get them on any tighter and had severe hernia blowout and cramping. Sure enough they were good. So it looks like I will have to get a pipe out and put it on the wrench the next time. That's what I get for cutting corners and not pressure testing the setup; I wanted to be cheap and not buy fittings to test pressure off of the compressor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Maybe (in hindsight) take it in for testing before reinstalling it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted September 9, 2015 Author Share Posted September 9, 2015 the only ways I know the tank can be pressure tested are: 1. test by purging (which also gets you a purge 2. somehow cobble a way to pressure the tank with a compressor; this will require some sort of custom cobbled together fitting to pressurize the tank. The propane tech said its aok to get a pressure test done at his place. Personally I am wondering if it wouldn't be prudent for me to take the tank off and take it there. problem is... its a horizontal mount tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 I don't think you should be giving yourself a hernia if your fittings are of a decent quality (not bottoming out). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted September 9, 2015 Author Share Posted September 9, 2015 perhaps the threads are too rusted and I should have cleaned them better. the tank isn't exactly brand new quality, more like well wiped like a Clinton server. As mentioned the new fittings don't leak, originals do. I will have to wire brush them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Toyota Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 got an old well tank around take air fitting off that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Never use force, just get a longer lever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 For Derek.. Not sure he understands tapered thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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