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1982 18ft Sunrader Build Thread (photos, progress and questions)


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Hi all!

After asking a few questions and poking around on the forum I've decided to start a build thread for our Sunrader (as of yet, not nicknamed, because "Funrader" is taken, so we're back to the drawing board).

We got her (or him, again we don't know yet) in March here in the Pacific Northwest - paid a pretty penny due to her proximity and what we thought was her good condition. Gutted her immediately and have been finding problem areas, rust, rot, etc... ever since. Luckily, my boyfriend is skilled and knowledgeable in all things build-y and has been taking on the lion's share of the work while I finish my thesis. He's also built out another van and lived in it before (photo below), so he knows all about the systems involved. Most of my background comes from owning a house for a few years and doing all my repairs and installs, so I'm not too bad with the tools either, but definitely not as knowledgeable as him! I graduate in June and our goal is to have her up to our specs before August so that we can hit the road then for a year of exploring. With your help, expertise and insight, I think we'll make it!

I posted pictures but took them down because they were out of order and sort of sloppy so I'll redo them and post as soon as possible so you can see the before and after of things. We didn't think we'd be doing a build page at first so we haven't documented everything he's done thus far, but will try to be better about it from here on out.

Here's an inventory of what we've done so far:

(1) Deleted all stock sunrader systems including all accompanying wiring and tanks

(2) Gutted and cleaned everything; epoxied any rotting wood

(3) Plugged and epoxied any accompanying holes in the floor from stock systems

(4) Removed side-awning and after-market roof rack

(5) Impregnated all wood with epoxy

Here's our To-Do List:

(1) Do it better.

...

I'll add additional posts for our progress as it unfolds. Hope you tune in!

For now, we've got some specific questions... but I'm sure there will be many more! Thanks in advance for your help!

(1) Is the external trim where the two halves of the fiberglass shell meet structural in any way? How have people most successfully deleted it? We've seen a few different examples but would like to know what you think is best!

(2) New front windows vs. no front windows - thoughts? We love the front windows but they have some leaks, are warped and need replacing, but most of our favorite builds have them deleted soooo just looking for your opinions and resources. If you replaced your windows - where'd you get them?

(3) One of our inner-fenders is rusted through. Is this the correct part to replace it? https://www.toyotapartsdeal.com/oem/toyota~liner~front~fender~lh~53876-95110.html?Make=Toyota&Model=Pickup&Year=1982&Submodel=&Filter=()&Location=hood-front-fender,,53879

 

Thanks all! We're so stoked to be a part of this community and, if it makes sense, would love to meet y'all in person and show you the finished product as we set out across the U.S. this summer! :)

 

 

 

Edited by LilMamaBoneCrusher
first time posting so many pictures and they were out of alignment
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You have the side cabover windows, so if you glassed over the fronts it wouldn't be cave like.

Your front windows look intact if you go the glass over route CAREFULLY remove them.They are worth$$$ . I think new ones run about $800 a set installed.

IMHO glass over is the right answer.

The VIN tag will have an RN something stamped on it, that helps a bunch when looking for parts. It looks like the inner liner is correct.

 

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Here is where I had some updates, but I'm taking the photos down because they are out of order, unlabeled and, as such, annoying the boyfriend! He's going to do it better when he gets a break from the actual Rader work. :P 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by LilMamaBoneCrusher
photos in wrong order
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...and now to the project that has been plaguing the process.... the floor! As you'll see, we had the common experience of the popping back seam... but we also had a lot of damaged wood, center seam popping, sagginess, etc... My beau is amazing and is doing all of this work with limited hand tools - I'm very impressed!

 

(again, photos will be reposted soon)

 

 

 

 

Edited by LilMamaBoneCrusher
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Well you need flat and level to have a starting point so keep going.

Have your beau look under the rig and see how the house is mounted, the Raders have a bad design and an old one may need some "help"

 

Edited by WME
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@WME ...yeah, we've noticed that the original/factory build was bull! Everything under there is sub par - definitely not up to our standards. What kind of help are you talking about, exactly? Bracing or...?

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It was built to be the lightest possible weight and have some flex to actually smooth the ride going down the road. The fiberglass flexes so the floor was built with some slight flex right from the beginning. My Nissan Sunrader came with a very heavy wood installed to help stop the soft floor. Well what it did was bounce up and down going down the road. Made even steering harder. I removed it and used lighter weight materials and the bounce disappeared completely. Think heavy nut on a rubber band bouncing up and down. Not good. So redo it but don't overdo it. You might not like the results. Same for cabinets. Heavy solid wood cabinets are not always a good idea. Always keep your GVWR in mind. Your early Toyota chassis has a gross vehicle weight rating of 4650. Almost a thousand pounds less than my 86.

Linda S

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Well I never owned a SunRader, but I sleep at Holiday Inn Express :D. Ive been RVing for 30 years and have helped with some SunRaders. I don't know what you know about Raders.

So starting with basics the floor isn;t solid. Its a construct of plywood and foam. Its all bonded together and is strong enough when its new. A little water over the years and the wood delaminates from the foam and you have all the strength of 3/4" foam. The shell is bonded to the floor, then its bolted to the frame. There are NO full width supports over time the floor breaks down from the weight of everything and you end up with a sag around the edges. So several triangle support brackets per side will help carry the weight. A few crafty folk have installed full width supports. Your plan of new wood epoxied over the old is about the next best and easiest to do. I would cut your center piece and make full width cross pieces as wide as possible. Jack the outer wall level before you glue things. Once you get the floor stable the rest of the coach is almost bullet proof.

You asked about the seam. Its a production expediency.  Removing the trim and using glass and bondo to smooth it over works well, but then you have a paint/gel coat matching repair to do. A common upgrade is to keep it and replace the screws with stainless ones. The screws were cheap 25 years ago and didn't age well. Many of them are the wrong lengths (think left overs at the factory) and have been the source of aggravating leaks, shorted lights. A dab of sealer on the threads of the new screws and a dollop over the head and its water proof for ever.

Edited by WME
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Sweet! I had suggested support brackets and we've done a TON of research on the raders, so we're familiar with how they are supposed to be built... ours is just missing a lot of the bolts, or the way they were bolted was shoddy, or blah blah blah... just a ton of minor headaches, which is all part of the fun of the DIY build!

I wish we could've jacked the floor, but impossible for us, so we just sandwiched them together and are hoping for the best.

good to know about the rigidity issue, though! We definitely want flex, maybe just not as much as we have? Only time will tell.

Good call on replacing the screws, too! We plan to paint the whole thing an entirely different color so, other than the tediousness of the process, matching the colors and gel coat should be no big deal.

One thing we can't figure out is where to buy large sheets of fiberglass that are the same style and width of the sunrader. We're still toying with the idea of raising the roof a bit, but can't find large sheets anywhere! Any thoughts?

As always, thank you so so so so much!

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Hi LMBC,

Nothing will be as thick as the original fiberglass and gloss Filon is pricey $$$  http://www.all-rite.com/high-gloss-fiberglass. There are other places to buy it I'm sure. Lot's of folks go with common  white FRP panels from Home Depot or the local big box hardware store, but that product tends to be "pebbled" on one side and rough on the other for adhesion. It all depends on your tolerance for for appearance and budget. Either way, if you want to be able to crawl on top, It seems like you're going to need to do serious reinforcement. Also, I'm late to the discussion of the roof, but here's what I did. Instead of drilling more holes in the roof, I glassed in 1 1/4" aluminum tube the whole width of the ceiling side to side on either side of the A/C port, as well as over the end plates. I got the contour like it shows in the top photo, by using 3/8" ply and letting the drywall jack push the roof-line up into it's most natural curve, then made a template to give to the guy to bend the aluminum tubing. At 1 1/4" they came out about flush with the finished ceiling panels (with 5/8" insulation under the panels). They've been there about 3 yrs and no trouble so far.... The slight gaps at the ends worked well to route wiring through as well.  BTW, the big plywood brace on 4x4's in the back of the pix is what I held the coach up with while I removed and replaced the floor. :w00t:

Welcome to the tribe.

BR,

TG

Multi Ceiling.jpg

Back closed.JPG

Edited by ToyoGuy
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@ToyoGuy - that's exactly what we were thinking of doing. this is awesome to see, thank you!

We were hoping to find thicker sheets of the fiberglass somewhere.... maybe we have to deconstruct old showers made for houses? hmmm.... so many options. Thank you!

Edited by LilMamaBoneCrusher
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Yeah, the FRP (fiberglass reinforced plastic) panels at the big-box stores are only very slightly thicker, .090, but also, that thickness measurement is including the texture-bumps on it. It's probably about .075 at the thinnest points.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/4-ft-x-8-ft-White-090-FRP-Wall-Board-MFTF12IXA480009600/100389836

You can't beat the price though, and bajadulce did a lot of his fabrication on his rig with it. He's kinda a master at this stuff.

Fiberglass RV's tremble at the sound of his name.  ;)

Great to see all your progress.

TG

Edited by ToyoGuy
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On 4/26/2017 at 4:31 PM, ToyoGuy said:

You can't beat the price though, and bajadulce did a lot of his fabrication on his rig with it. He's kinda a master at this stuff.

Fiberglass RV's tremble at the sound of his name.  ;)

Great to see all your progress.

TG

I know! That guy's work is so impressive! So is yours, though! Thank you so much for the feedback. We'll keep considering.

In the meantime, we're having trouble figuring out what size butyl tape to use for the windows. Any ideas out there?

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Butyl tape is like play do. Stretch it thinner, fold it over. Mold it anyway you want. I do buy the white stuff. Gives a cleaner finish. You are going to want it to squeeze out the sides as you tighten the window. After cut around the edge of the window with a plastic putty knife and peel the excess off.

Linda S

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Thanks @linda s!!! I forgot to tell you that your comment about the give in the floor made put my boyfriend at so much ease! It's a reality we hadn't fully considered and helps us feel better about the slight give in ours! thank you, again!

another question - does anybody know the mounting depth for the windows? 1"? 1.25"? having trouble finding that as well. Thanks!

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I've done mine but had no reason to measure cause I didn't change paneling or anything. Take one out. it's super easy and you can pop it right back in if you need to. windows at least the back ones are way easier than people think. Unscrew inside trim. pry outside one off, done. Don't even have to remove entirely to measure depth of wall. Just push out a little and push it back on. reseal when your ready to do it right

Linda S

I did my Nissan but windows are exactly the same. I also did them completely by myself. No help. I am not young. Like I said easy

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even thou you have  to use butyl tape . the proper way to seal windows ,doors or anything that is mounted threw the coach.you still have to seal around everything. pro flex rv sealent  is a good sealent and easy to work with

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Maybe that's the standard for manufacturing RV's but I have never found it necessary. No sealant on my Sunraders and no leaks. Roof vent has been in place for 12 years and I would think the roof is more susceptible to leaks than anywhere else. Nissan has all the windows resealed and completely dry after 6 years. All with only butyl tape. Sealant is just another thing to mess up in my mind. I have seen some very nasty caulking jobs from people trying to do their best to seal their camper. Maybe if I had a wood framed camper I would use it because of all the potential leaks at corners but not a Sunrader.

Linda S

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that's why I won't buy any rv that someone has already tried to work on. things are done from the factory for a reason.just because you don't see water or marks from water .doesn't mean it's not there.

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Hey LMBC,

Just a couple of other things on the window stuff, I've pulled all the windows on my rig at one time or another and I have found a handy tool to have to hold windows while lifting / installing / carrying ( whether with one person, like Linda, or a helpful partner) are these cheapo locking suction cups from Harvard Freight. The windows and the cups have to be clean, but you can really get a secure grip to pull  while installing the retaining flange screws from inside, or holding from outside. I would check the grip by tugging on it before using the tool. (Consider the source, and look through the stack as always, with HF stuff). Also, when I have installed the butyl tape on hot days, I wait overnight before trimming the squeeze-out from around the outside flange. Twice now I did it immediately after the final tightening on the retainer screws, only to have to re-trim again a day or two later as the force of the screws later squeeze out more. Not a big deal if you don't "overseal" with something else, but a pain if you do. Just my experience, everybody's got their favorite tools and ways, and that's what's so cool about this little club.

BR,

TG

Suction cup.jpg

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...
On 5/25/2017 at 11:28 AM, Wandering Warren said:

Wish you had not taken the photos down. Out of order and sloppy is better than none for months . . . :mellow:

Hi Wandering Warren! I'm finally done with school so I will be able to add more over the coming weeks! :)

 

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  • 2 months later...

Hello, I just bought a 1984 Sunrader on a Nissan 720 Chassis. Yes this is a 6 Bolt Floating Trans Dully setup. I've seen a ton of the Toy's online but not more then a small hand full of these. Anyway I am also gutting and remodeling... Wondering if anyone has a list of screw sizes they've used or plan to use. I pulled almost every screw that was in it..most were in terrible condition. The square head appears to be the common thread between them. I thought they were called panhead but I've since found out they aren't. I picked up # 8 and had to return them...I think my tool says they are S2's...does anyone know much or have a list of the screws...used? thanks.. 

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Where did all the screws come from that you removed?  From the outside trim, window frames, various parts inside?  Number 8 screws are the ones used in most of the trim pieces on the outside.  What are S2 screws?  "Square drive" refers to the type of bit used to drive the screws and the ones in my 85 Dolphin are pan head, phillips drive #8 screws.  "Pan head" screws have a flat underside so that they sit flat on whatever surface they're driven into and not countersunk into the surface.  Why did you have to return the #8 screws?  They should be the correct ones to use if they're 1" long and pan head.

John

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5 hours ago, NissanSunrader1984 said:

Hello, I just bought a 1984 Sunrader on a Nissan 720 Chassis. Yes this is a 6 Bolt Floating Trans Dully setup. I've seen a ton of the Toy's online but not more then a small hand full of these. Anyway I am also gutting and remodeling... Wondering if anyone has a list of screw sizes they've used or plan to use. I pulled almost every screw that was in it..most were in terrible condition. The square head appears to be the common thread between them. I thought they were called panhead but I've since found out they aren't. I picked up # 8 and had to return them...I think my tool says they are S2's...does anyone know much or have a list of the screws...used? thanks.. 

The screws are Robertson screws made a good decade before Philips  (Canadian) they were made to be driven with power tools to reduce slipping the forerunner of torx drive generally you will need a #1 and 2 that should fit any thing in your camper. Yes they look like a Philips but it will slip HD should have them but expect the deer in the headlights look when you ask. 

 

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Okay here's a bit more...I picked up a few packs of # 8's  Pan heads they did not match ...The S2 I refereed to is the number bit I used to remove them..I assumed it meant it worked on # 2's But I will continue to seek out the actual sizes used. I picked up a bunch of # 8's and they did not match what I removed so..back to the hardware... In the meantime , thanks and I appreciate any help and guidance I can get. This is my first RV so...I am green as they come...Thanks I'll check back soon... Oh the screws I removed are ...all of them..Trim strip, all the clearance lights, all the cabinets, stove, fridge is out AC out...etc...  

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15 hours ago, Dolphinite said:

Where did all the screws come from that you removed?  From the outside trim, window frames, various parts inside?  Number 8 screws are the ones used in most of the trim pieces on the outside.  What are S2 screws?  "Square drive" refers to the type of bit used to drive the screws and the ones in my 85 Dolphin are pan head, phillips drive #8 screws.  "Pan head" screws have a flat underside so that they sit flat on whatever surface they're driven into and not countersunk into the surface.  Why did you have to return the #8 screws?  They should be the correct ones to use if they're 1" long and pan head.

John

Every where...trim strip...cabinets, everything on top .... The S2 was the marking on the bit I used. I assume it meant a #2 fit square head...I think they are being called pan heads but....As noted above pan head stands for the shape of the screw's head not the type of bit or the style / design of the " torx " tool - head match... The Sunrader as also noted was built using early square head torx screws...called ( Robertson screws ) by Maineah  above, thanks.. I'd read several of your post... great info. Extremely helpful. Back to the " Robertson screws  "  AKA Square Drive Head screws...that are no longer made the same way that I've been able to locate thus far. So I am leaning towards they can be replaced with square heads " modern day types " but not with exact matches...Can anyone add to that? Thanks I appreciate the help and guidance. As for sizing that's still a question I have not answered 100% Any suggestions? I NOTE" the trimp strip screws appear to have had their sharp tips snapped off...at the factory...I must assume they did this to avoid breaking threw the fiberglass shell...yet they still broke through...many times...thus the leaks at the shell seam...where the trim strip hides the two piece joint ! 

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I just learned something,.,... Here they are ! 1908 ... and still available. http://www.robertsonscrew.com/Linked Files/Robertson Fastener Guide-e.version_Final.pdf

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