Dolphin may be totaled due to rat damage

[alnav5]

Maybe this will help someone who lives in a rural area or any area where mice/rats are around. I moved my 89 Dolphin, (36,000 miles, V-6, 5 new tires, rebuilt interior), in the driveway so that I could get easier access to a rear tire.  Engine was running and I was in passenger side getting out the tire gauge when I felt a "whoosh" from the heater area. I shut off the engine ran around to pull the hood release, opened the hood to find fire raging across the top of the engine.  Put out the fire via close by fire extinguisher. Fire did not bubble paint on hood.  Long story short: there is an exclusion in my Progressive insurance policy about damage caused by pests. Looks like a rat had chewed the gas line which caused the fire.  The exclusion states that if the vehicle has been unoccupied for more than 2 weeks it may not be covered.  I'm waiting for a decision from Progessive now.  

Bottom line: with Progressive anyway, check your vehicle at least every two weeks. I started and sometimes drove mine every month but admit that I didn't always check for a rat's nest under the hood. I did place bags of rodent repellent inside and under the hood.

Oh yeah, engine turns over and appears to try to start.  Neighbor believes it will start with new MAF sensor but have to wait to see if they are going to tow it back to me before I try anything. If I get it back not sure what to do with it. 

[jjrbus]

With all the things that can go wrong with a Toy this is the last thing we need!  Sorry it happened to you.

Did they make the the wire covering with sea weed or whatever it was that the rodents enjoy so much?

I have read rodent problems before and took head I keep a mouse and rat trap in my toy baited with peanut butter. In the last year I have caught 1 rat!  Not practical for people that do not store theirs close to the house. 

[vrocrider]

2 hours ago, alnav5 said:

Maybe this will help someone who lives in a rural area or any area where mice/rats are around. I moved my 89 Dolphin, (36,000 miles, V-6, 5 new tires, rebuilt interior), in the driveway so that I could get easier access to a rear tire.  Engine was running and I was in passenger side getting out the tire gauge when I felt a "whoosh" from the heater area. I shut off the engine ran around to pull the hood release, opened the hood to find fire raging across the top of the engine.  Put out the fire via close by fire extinguisher. Fire did not bubble paint on hood.  Long story short: there is an exclusion in my Progressive insurance policy about damage caused by pests. Looks like a rat had chewed the gas line which caused the fire.  The exclusion states that if the vehicle has been unoccupied for more than 2 weeks it may not be covered.  I'm waiting for a decision from Progessive now.  

Bottom line: with Progressive anyway, check your vehicle at least every two weeks. I started and sometimes drove mine every month but admit that I didn't always check for a rat's nest under the hood. I did place bags of rodent repellent inside and under the hood.

Oh yeah, engine turns over and appears to try to start.  Neighbor believes it will start with new MAF sensor but have to wait to see if they are going to tow it back to me before I try anything. If I get it back not sure what to do with it. 

"Looks like a rat had chewed the gas line which caused the fire." You've got to be kidding!!

1.) How can there be evidence of this in a burned engine compartment.

2.) I've had rodents make a nest under my intake manifold in RV parked for years. Some nibbling on wire insulation but no rubber damage at all.   

3.) Rubber cracks & deteriorates over time. That's why tire manufacturers say a tire should be replaced after 7 years regardless of mileage.  

I'd sure fight this one. If you're from the "life's too short" world I'd pay a lawyer $200 to write a letter saying unacceptable. 

My experience with insurance on more than one occasion is they try to take advantage of you. If you say no way & fight back they quickly sing a different song.

This one should be easy. 

Good luck.       

[linda s]

The Toyota used only metal fuel lines as original equipment. Bet the metal is still there unless they messed with it. Crooks all the way.

Linda S

[alnav5]

Thanks to both of you for your comments and suggestions. The gas line that may have been chewed is a short piece that makes a 90 degree turn.  It was deteriorated and when trying to see if the engine would run, gas pumped out of the gas line at the corner of the hose. The claims adjuster stated in his report that the hose had bite marks on it. I'm going to look at it myself at the shop to where it was towed. The fire was under control within 2 minutes so possibly it didn't have time to burn up the rat bite evidence. 

Main reason I posted about my experience is to let others know to check their coverage. 

[vrocrider]

Bite mark? Really? Guess the I adjuster is an animal control officer in his spare time! He's there to protect the insurance company. Don't let them take advantage of you!!   

"Bottom line: with Progressive anyway, check your vehicle at least every two weeks. I started and sometimes drove mine every month but admit that I didn't always check for a rat's nest under the hood." BS!! Nobody checks for rodents every 2 weeks.

Don't wait on Progressive. You need to be proactive since they've spouted all this BS. If you have a local agent go talk to them & tell them this is BS.   

One of my points was that a fact of life is rubber deteriorates which equals not your fault!! That is If indeed it is a rubber fuel line. 

While I'm not a professional mechanic I've worked on a lot of cars and motorcycles in my 55 years of being a gear head I can't recall ever seeing a FORMED (90 degree) rubber FUEL line as you describe. My experience formed hoses usually carry coolant or vacuum. Rubber fuel hoses are common on motorcycles because of vibration and many curves they have to travel.  

As Linda said fuel lines are metal just for the reason you have experienced. Fire hazard.

See you have a V6. I just went through my V6 fuel system replacing all 6 fuel injectors, fuel filter, pulling the intake plenum, inspecting fuel rail. It's all metal due to safety and high fuel pressure.   

At a minimum if no lawyer get a good mechanic to give you a report before you move vehicle. Talk to Toyota corporate. Tell them what insurance said about rubber fuel line in a 3.0L V6. Make a formal report with them.    

Also, a no cost strategy that worked for me is to call the state insurance commissioner and make a formal complaint. In my case situation went from insurance company accusing me of arson (house fire) to pick out whatever contractor you want to make repairs & stay at whatever hotel is convenient.      

Sorry. I get fired up when I see people being taken advantage of.

Edited April 5, 2017 by vrocrider

[Gulfstream Greg]

4 hours ago, alnav5 said:

Thanks to both of you for your comments and suggestions. The gas line that may have been chewed is a short piece that makes a 90 degree turn.  It was deteriorated and when trying to see if the engine would run, gas pumped out of the gas line at the corner of the hose. The claims adjuster stated in his report that the hose had bite marks on it. I'm going to look at it myself at the shop to where it was towed. The fire was under control within 2 minutes so possibly it didn't have time to burn up the rat bite evidence. 

Main reason I posted about my experience is to let others know to check their coverage. 

Not sure about the bite mark scenario. Unless that piece of line was factory formed into a bend it could just be that it deteriorated and cracked on the outside of the bend where the rubber stretches when bent looking like bite marks. Have a mechanic look at it. Keep in mind an insurance adjuster gets paid not to pay if possible. It seems more common for rodents to chew on wires than rubber. My neighbor just recently had something chew up the engine wire harness on his Toyota pickup, still does not run right. I had a rodent build a nest on top of my engine when on a camping trip. When I tried to remove the nest it popped out stood on it's back legs and squeaking and hissing at me then jumped off the side of the motor. I thought all was well. Drove 30 miles up the road, opened the hood and there it was alive and well on top the engine building a new nest.

Anyhow did you find any rat turds or turds of any kind? Rodents are constantly dropping those things. If it runs it is not totaled, just needs a bit of TLC!

[vrocrider]

Please note you probably have another problem that caused the gas to ignite.

I'd start by checking battery cable connections both at battery & grounds to chassis / engine block in engine compartment. Open the hood in the dark & accelerate engine & look for ignition electrical pulse light from wires, distributor cap, plug boots, etc. Another test during the day is shake plug wires with your hand & see if you get shocked. I'd use only Toyota wire set if you have to replace.    

[kg4toi]

Vrocrider good advice.I once got a solicitor to write a letter for free, he disliked insurance companies. Worked like magic. Sounds as if your vehicle is repairable and you should get the insurance company  to foot the bill for a complete engine compartment inspection. 

 

[alnav5]

Thanks to all for advice. Recap: engine will not start after fire; fuel flows (a lot) out of the hose when trying to start engine; rv was towed by Progressive to my mechanic who doesn't want to tackle the electrical issues that he believes he faces in trying to get the engine to run(he's afraid of long term issues, i.e. ecu); am going this p.m. to look at the "rat bitten" hose and take pics of it. My neighbor (retired aircraft mechanic) thinks maybe we can replace the MAF sensor and it will start. Might try that but am doing nothing until Progressive makes their decision in about 2 weeks. At this point though I can't see them approving the claim unless I can prove that the fire was not caused by rat damage. Will contest their decision if it appears that the hose doesn't have rat bites. 

My options are: they approve claim and give me $5380 for the rv; they give me$4380 and I keep the RV; they deny claim, give me $0 and tow the RV to my house or wherever. Still pondering if I should have it towed back here to try and get it going or just give up. Hate to see it go to salvage yard with 36K on it. Engine has new timing belt, water pump, hoses, belts. 5 new tires (spare never on ground) just before we went on about a 3.5 K trip to Grand Canyon and back. AC converted to R134. Replaced front window with FRP and replaced damn near all the wood framing after removing the skin.

This could have been worse as I was about to remove the skin again and replace it all with FRP then have it wrapped. Or this could have happened on the trip to Maine that we were planning.

 

 

[Maineah]

Ok the thing caught fire because of a fuel leak at a fuel hose and it did not damage the hose? If it cooked the hose how can he tell that it was chewed on? Rodents damage vehicles every day it's pretty normal and yes they can do it over night so what's to say that was not the case? We had one many years back in the dark ages when there were still carburetors, a mouse had built a nest in the air box to the point it block the air flow over heated the catalytic converter  set fire to the floor mats and gutted the interior (they were driving it at the time). It is a very common problem with often disastrous results sounds like they are trying to stiff you with a technicality. You probably would have been better off running in to a tree.

[Derek up North]

Will it start as-is? Well, if the fuel is  spraying all over the place it sounds like you'll never get enough pressure at the injectors for it to start.

I think I'd be temped to pull the fuse for the fuel pump so it can't spray gas all over the place and see if you (or your mechanic) can get it to start on ether/starter fluid. Establish that you're getting a spark, then you can work on the fuel side of things.

Can you post a picture of the fire damage? Where's the ECU? Anywhere near the fire?

[alnav5]

Okay everybody, here's a pic of the hose and I have to agree with the claims adjuster that those sure look like rat bites. Additionally, the rat chewed a bit on the battery terminal protector cover. Mechanic was there and confirmed that the bite marks on both items look same.

I can't blame Progressive at this point because this issue is listed as an exclusion in my policy. 

Thanks to all for ideas/comments. Again, I only posted this to let folks know to check the exclusions that may exist in their policies.

Derek, after the fire, we replaced the gas line but it wouldn't start so put back the original one. The pic below looks like a water hose due the fact I got so close and due to deterioration/heat.

Thanks again.  

[DanAatTheCape]

you need a lawyer.    btw, those bite marks might be abrasions from something wearing against it. 

[Maineah]

I would fight it. If indeed it's a fuel hose it's a return line. Either one of these guys animal experts and when did they chew on it?

[Lee & Joan]

We sure have had a run in with the wood rats and mice since last August, very strange never been this bad, we do live in the woods. First Joan's Toyota Pickup, mice ate the wiring July 31st. Two "cute" little mice peaking out of the air box inlet. Opened the airbox to find it full of local wild nuts and bedding made of torn up air filter material. Mechanics claim rodents like the mold release agent that is used on the plastic outer part of wiring, it has peanut oil or something in it. Well the mice got evicted, their years supply of nuts removed, and replaced with that rat candy bar stuff, I'm SO mean! Did the same thing to all the trucks and the motorhome but find that we are replacing the rat chow about every day or two. Started up the Motorhome last October and had a number of under hood explosions as the rodents had stashed more nuts on the exhaust manifold. As the manifold heated up the nuts went off like popcorn. When you buy five 4# boxes of rat bar at a time, you know "This is war"...

[vrocrider]

1 hour ago, alnav5 said:

Okay everybody, here's a pic of the hose and I have to agree with the claims adjuster that those sure look like rat bites. Additionally, the rat chewed a bit on the battery terminal protector cover. Mechanic was there and confirmed that the bite marks on both items look same.

I can't blame Progressive at this point because this issue is listed as an exclusion in my policy. 

Thanks to all for ideas/comments. Again, I only posted this to let folks know to check the exclusions that may exist in their policies.

Derek, after the fire, we replaced the gas line but it wouldn't start so put back the original one. The pic below looks like a water hose due the fact I got so close and due to deterioration/heat.

Thanks again.  

The oxidized banjo bolt at the bottom of the picture is connecting the main metal fuel line to the fuel rail. There's one in the front & back of fuel rail. I was there a few weeks back on my 3VZE V6 when I changed the injectors. 

If I looked at the picture without knowing the story I'd swear the rubber hose is carrying coolant to keep intake manifold at a desired elevated temp. Rusted factory hose clamp is typical for coolant connection. I believe I had to remove a line similar to that in pictures that bled coolant when I removed plenum. A write up in shop manual should cover this & show pictures.     

Did you pull the rubber hose off & smell for gas? If yes then only thing I can think of is it may be part of a supplemental cold start fuel flow system. If gas there just don't see how the hose is in the condition it shows when surrounded by flame.     

I'm not trying to push you to fight a battle with insurance. As you said earlier, you posted just to let others know about insurance issue. That's good.

If it were me I'd still be digging.

I'm on this forum to be educated & educate others from my experience. I don't have to tell you fire is a serious thing. I'll be looking for that hose tomorrow & check it's health if it truly is carrying fuel. 

Best of luck on this.    

Edited April 6, 2017 by vrocrider

[alnav5]

Progressive decided to cover my claim and my Dolphin is being towed to a mechanic who is willing to look at it. They stated that they are covering my claim due to the fact that I had placed rodent repellent in the Dolphin and that I started and drove it monthly (instead of every two weeks).

[jjrbus]

On 5/12/2017 at 0:39 PM, alnav5 said:

Progressive decided to cover my claim and my Dolphin is being towed to a mechanic who is willing to look at it. They stated that they are covering my claim due to the fact that I had placed rodent repellent in the Dolphin and that I started and drove it monthly (instead of every two weeks).

Great news!  Between insurance company's and rats I think I like rats better!   Hopefully thing will work out, keep us informed,  expiring minds need to know.   

[linda s]

40 minutes ago, jjrbus said:

Great news!  Between insurance company's and rats I think I like rats better!   Hopefully thing will work out, keep us informed,  expiring minds need to know.   

Expiring minds need to know. You crack me up.

Linda S