AC Compressor

[markwilliam1]

The mechanic said my cab AC is not repairable so I'm contemplating removing the compressor to save some weight and space. I've already removed the belt. Is this worth it?

[Maineah]

Guess that's fine but don't expect a great improvement in MPG! Guess there is a fine line between repairable and cost.

[DanAatTheCape]

I would get another mechanic - any AC is repairable.  not sure how well the 4 cylinder can power an ac. 

[Derek up North]

1 hour ago, DanAatTheCape said:

...  not sure how well the 4 cylinder can power an ac. 

Not sure how common it was, but 'way back when' some manufacturers installed vacuum actuated switches that would shut off the A/C when you went up a hill.

I recall, also way back when, Ford (UK) 'solved' the problem of increased road noise at increased speeds by having the radio volume increase as road speed did.

[redskinman]

1 minute ago, Derek up North said:

Not sure how common it was, but 'way back when' some manufacturers installed vacuum actuated switches that would shut off the A/C when you went up a hill.

I recall, also way back when, Ford (UK) 'solved' the problem of increased road noise at increased speeds by having the radio volume increase as road speed did.

Yeah I think a lot of stereos in cars nowadays give you the option of having the volume increase with the road noise,I think both my vehicles do.

[Derek up North]

Wouldn't surprise me with the complexity of modern stereos. When I get a 'new(er)' car, I mess with the radio long enough to find my favourite AM talk radio station and that's it, other than mastering the 'volume' control. My latest came with a remote control fob. Trouble is, it's farther to reach for the fob than it is to reach the radio!

[markwilliam1]

Hey Dan, I paid the mechanic $150 to test and fix. The compressor worked but there was a leak in the canister that you look to see the freon level (don't know what it's called.) It was the fittings on both side of this canister that he couldn't find Anywhere. Cannot determine the manufacturer of the AC not Toyota. I think it was installed by Granville?? Cannot read any #'s on the compressor! Not sure if the 22RE could even operate the AC without undue engine strain. I got a stand alone Fantastic fan to blow air in the cab so good to go!

[darrel]

I used the AC on my 84 Dolphin all the time, well when it was hot. Even in Death Valley on that long climb out. Wife and I do not like being HOT,  unless we instigated it.

The same of the 94 Warrior. Have if fixed.

Darrel

[markwilliam1]

Can't be fixed and don't think the 4 could handle it so I roll down the window:-):-)

[Maineah]

None of the Hilux came from Japan with an AC they were all installed in the states with US made units until they changed the body style, and they were all 4 cylinder!

[linda s]

52 minutes ago, Maineah said:

None of the Hilux came from Japan with an AC they were all installed in the states with US made units until they changed the body style, and they were all 4 cylinder!

Are you sure about that. This is a Toyota parts site and this is a Nippon Denso AC compressor. All the way back to 1983

https://www.toyotapartsdeal.com/oem/toyota~compressor~assy~cooler~88320-35130.html

Linda S

[WME]

Does it look like this?? http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-AC-A-C-Accumulator-Receiver-Drier-Air-Conditioning-Filter-Dryer-/330855639691?hash=item4d08886a8b:g:Lm4AAOSwjDZYk3rC&vxp=mtr

[markwilliam1]

Yes it does but it's the fittings on both ends of the canister that could not be found according to this mechanic. I bought R12 Freon and had a friend charge it up. The system was completely empty. When I pushed the AC button the engine stalled when the compressor kicked in. Couple more trys after stalling and it started and worked for awhile. Cold air! I was excited! Then the hose from the compressor to that canister blew open. There goes all my new R12. The mechanic replaced the hose but couldn't find the fittings when he discovered the leak. My impression after all this is the AC puts a hugh strain on the 22RE (my engine) and not sure if it's worth it to seek other repair options. I have no idea if my system was stock Toyota. Thinking of removing the compressor and everything else to lessen weight and free up space. The AC hadn't been working for years so not sure about the compressor now but it did kick in a few times before the hose blew.

[linda s]

Here are those fittings. Still available from Toyota.

Linda S

88716A	PIPE, COOLER REFRIGERANT LIQUID, A 4RUNNER,TRUCK (LN56),6#,RN5#,6#,7#,VZN6#; T1	8871689132 View Product	$34.20$26.52
88716B	PIPE, COOLER REFRIGERANT LIQUID, B 4RUNNER,TRUCK (LN56),65,RN5#,6#; T1 4RUNNER,TRUCK (LN56); DIESEL	8871689133 View Product	$55.43$42.66

[5Toyota]

have an 87 late sr5 delux xtra cab came with factory air  on a 22re . did not work removed all parts . have same on my 87 dolphin would like some day to get it fixed up .

[markwilliam1]

I don't think I have a stock Toyota system Linda. No readable markings on the compressor or canister. You have the 22RE? Do you use AC and if so does it strain your system? I think @ this point I may remove what I can and live without Cab AC. Even though the compressor worked I'm not sure why it stalled out the engine. Plus I'd have to get more R12. Thanks for your help!

[Derek up North]

Something to consider (I think).

When it comes time to resell, though worth less with a non-functioning cab A/C, I think it would be worth even less if you tear the whole thing out. At least if all the components are still there, it'll be easier for future owner to repair it. But if you do decide to remove, at least keep everything you remove safely in a box somewhere.

An aside. I'm wondering how much weight and space you'll save by removing it.

[markwilliam1]

That's a very good point Derek! I hope to keep her for many years but I'll leave well enough alone. Thanks!

 

[vrocrider]

Having done a several older R12 dead to live car systems recently I'll share what I have learned.

There are 3 key points from a shop that does only auto/truck A/C. If there's a chance the compressor is not dead perform following:

1.) Always replace the dryer. This is the "can with site glass" referred to early in the above posts. 

2.) Always replace the expansion valve. Most often it's on the fire wall but in the case of my 91 Toyota it's in the evaporator core box under the passenger dash.

3.) Use use cheap 134 to get the system up & check for leaks. Vacuum out 134 and install expensive R12.    

Dryer and expansion valve are relatively cheap compared to compressor. If compressor has to be replaced the dryer & EV must be replaced & system flushed for the compressor to have a chance of survival.  

To make the task affordable I replaced all parts & took to car to shop to do vacuum & install of R134 & R12. I also supplied the R12 to the shop that I sourced at $35+ a can.    

 

 

[markwilliam1]

Thanks for the proper terminology vr and your knowledge. Any idea on why my engine would stall and the hose blew open going to the dryer? The system hadn't been used in years and the PO said he noticed something leaking on the ground and the AC stopped working after that! We did get it running for awhile before the hose blew. Seems like an expensive repair. Haven't heard from others running the air with the 22RE. Don't know the strain on the engine. 

[darrel]

All engines with AC loose a certain amount of power when the AC is on. The 22r or 22re engine is very capable of being run with the AC on even being that it is a Toyota motorhome. On long hills if you must have as much speed as possible turn off the AC until you get to top of hill then turn it back on. A good operating system will freeze you out even with 90-100 degree weather. I kept it running with r-12 and it was original. My 1984 Dolphin put out colder air than my 2004 Tacoma.

Darrel

[Maineah]

21 hours ago, linda s said:

Are you sure about that. This is a Toyota parts site and this is a Nippon Denso AC compressor. All the way back to 1983

https://www.toyotapartsdeal.com/oem/toyota~compressor~assy~cooler~88320-35130.html

Linda S

Yes they did use Denso and a couple of others but the kits were US and installed in the US I put several in, in the 80's. Well I'll put it this way the boxes full of hardware evaporator etc. were marked "made in the USA" strangely the trucks were set up for AC block off holes for the pipes some wiring connections etc. I often wondered if it had some thing to do with freon laws or fair trade agreement. 

On another note is is just me or is there and issue with post/replay format it freezes, the courser goes away or you have to type painfully slowly but most times it works perfectly does it on two of my computers.

[Maineah]

1 hour ago, markwilliam1 said:

Thanks for the proper terminology vr and your knowledge. Any idea on why my engine would stall and the hose blew open going to the dryer? The system hadn't been used in years and the PO said he noticed something leaking on the ground and the AC stopped working after that! We did get it running for awhile before the hose blew. Seems like an expensive repair. Haven't heard from others running the air with the 22RE. Don't know the strain on the engine. 

Hoses coming undone usually is over pressure a bad clutch fan could cause that at idle with the AC on. The oil in a AC system  travails through out the system it does not stay in one place some thing like a hose coming off will dump the oil right there. I ran the AC in my 22RE motor home every summer no problems. 

[Derek up North]

13 minutes ago, Maineah said:

... strangely the trucks were set up for AC block off holes for the pipes some wiring connections etc. I often wondered if it had some thing to do with freon laws or fair trade agreement.

Could it be that Forerunners and the Trucks shared the same firewall sheetmetal and maybe the Forerunners came with A/C as a factory option?

"On another note is is just me or is there and issue with post/replay format it freezes, the courser goes away or you have to type painfully slowly but most times it works perfectly does it on two of my computers."

Can't say I've noticed this happening to only the Forum. Sometimes my laptop slows down and does odd things. I've always attributed this to my slowish internet connection and/or Bill Gates. Painfully slow? My 2 finger typing is always painfully slow!!

[redskinman]

52 minutes ago, Maineah said:

Yes they did use Denso and a couple of others but the kits were US and installed in the US I put several in, in the 80's. Well I'll put it this way the boxes full of hardware evaporator etc. were marked "made in the USA" strangely the trucks were set up for AC block off holes for the pipes some wiring connections etc. I often wondered if it had some thing to do with freon laws or fair trade agreement. 

On another note is is just me or is there and issue with post/replay format it freezes, the courser goes away or you have to type painfully slowly but most times it works perfectly does it on two of my computers.

Yes I am having problems today and it happened a couple weeks ago,when I'm typing all of the sudden it will quit typing and I have to go back and start over

[linda s]

Now that I think of it, it happened to me too. I'll tell Greg.

Linda S

[vrocrider]

First, go to a different mechanic. There are things in your post that tell me this is NOT the A/C guy you need. A/C is a subset skill in auto world. Second, go all the way or you're wasting time and money. Learn from my experience.  

IMO even a poorly running engine should burn/squeal the belt before stalling on a locked up compressor so I have no idea why motor stalled. 

You MAY have damaged a good compressor. The dryer is like an oil filter catching contaminants in the refrigerant which could harm compressor. I think it's 50/50 now vs. if you changed components & evacuated system to start you would have better odds. 

To my knowledge all A/C hoses come with the fittings factory installed. I think you'd have to have specialized equipment to field install fittings on a/c hose. One side of your compressor is a high pressure and it's associated HP hose. The other side is low pressure with it's associated low pressure hose.  

The system has a specification for the type and amount of refrigerant. Same with refrigerant oil. Leave it for the A/C mechanic.   

My guess is you flowed refrigerant in a contaminated system. The refrigerant eventually got blocked at expansion valve & hose was place of lowest resistance to failure. Essentially it provided a safe guard blow out relief for an overcharged system. Google how refrigerant system works for better understanding.  

So, it you decide to go forward I'd replace dryer, expansion valve, both hoses with seals. Take it to a competent A/C guy. Have him vacuum system. Then install correct refrigerant oil and 134. See if compressor turns & look for leaks briefly. Evacuate 134 pull vacuum and install R12. Anything less & system will fail either sooner or later. My experience of hard knocks.

If you do above & determine you to change compressor have to change dryer and expansion valve again.  

Look at Rock Auto & ebay for pricing. No rebuilt compressor. Factory is probably Denso. I'd go with that if available.

Rock Auto shows a compressor KIT listing with nice write up on components listed above. Good read. 

I wouldn't take parts off with the expectation it will make a difference in performance. Leave for the next guy. Parts present in a non working system can't hurt value vs. alternate removal.   

 

Edited April 3, 2017 by vrocrider

[markwilliam1]

Thanks so much everyone! My thinking is big bucks to repair so I'll keep everything stock for the next guy in 15 years or so God Willing! Also, no problem typing on my end.

[Maineah]

4 hours ago, markwilliam1 said:

Thanks so much everyone! My thinking is big bucks to repair so I'll keep everything stock for the next guy in 15 years or so God Willing! Also, no problem typing on my end.

Bottom line "big bucks" is probably some thing you don't want to hear yes it can be real expensive to repair a system that has been trashed by some thing like a compressor that has come unglued it's up to you how much you want  to pay to be cool. I came to Maine via the south and people there would pay any thing to stay cool back in the 80's GM had compressor issues and a repair often ran over $500 they just wrote a check.

[Maineah]

6 hours ago, redskinman said:

Yes I am having problems today and it happened a couple weeks ago,when I'm typing all of the sudden it will quit typing and I have to go back and start over

Yeah it's bad enough I resorted to word and a paste.

[vrocrider]

5 hours ago, markwilliam1 said:

Thanks so much everyone! My thinking is big bucks to repair so I'll keep everything stock for the next guy in 15 years or so God Willing! Also, no problem typing on my end.

If no compressor probably around $60 in parts. Guess 2 cans of R12 Freon you source & R12 compatible oil $s??. For shop to vacuum, charge with 134, vacuum, recharge r12 maybe $150.

Again, this is an A/C specialist.  

[markwilliam1]

Thanks Maineah & vr! Could be way too expensive to repair. I don't know if the compressor even works properly. So I'm not gunna "sweat it" pun intended! Sure wish I could find a ac specialist shop that was that cheap vr. Already spent over $200 R12 included to find out the system leaked. So I'm done!

[Totem]

why not run that awesome honda on the roof unit and save the parasitic loss on the motor of the subpar performing R12 converted dash AC??

I too will be removing my Cab AC. Mine works great. you can have it if you want it. My roof unit is far better and I prefer the HP going onto the road after seeing that poor little 4 banger's loss to anything other than the one belt.

Edited April 12, 2017 by Totem

[Maineah]

On 4/3/2017 at 8:45 PM, markwilliam1 said:

Thanks Maineah & vr! Could be way too expensive to repair. I don't know if the compressor even works properly. So I'm not gunna "sweat it" pun intended! Sure wish I could find a ac specialist shop that was that cheap vr. Already spent over $200 R12 included to find out the system leaked. So I'm done!

I hear you it's not some thing you have to have the MH will run just as well with out it. Unless the compressor came unglued it's fixable with out breaking the bank when the compressor gives up it fills the system with metal then not only a does it clog up a bunch of parts but it makes cleaning the system a necessity we used to use R11 but I don't think that is legal any more like you say leave all the parts and let some one else deal with it if they want that's a lot better than have gapping holes where the system once was.

[markwilliam1]

That's exactly what I bought the Honda for, to run the roof AC while underway just like you and your awesome harbor freight genny set-up. I can't imagine how much strain the cab AC would put on our little 4 bangers, the power loss and less MPG. Others seem happy with their cab AC though. I bought a stand alone 12 volt Fantastic Fan to help blow the coach AC air into the cab and all's well! I will leave the system intact for others to play with someday.

Edited April 13, 2017 by markwilliam1
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