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How much weight could you safely haul on the rear of a 1-ton Dolphin?


citizenx

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I just got myself into a '91 Dolphin and am looking into scooters/mopeds/motorcycles to haul on a rear platform. I'm having a hard time finding any specific information on how much weight these rigs can handle without affecting the overall balance of the vehicle. And, although I don't expect the overall weight of the scooter/platform will exceed 300-400 lbs, I also plan on doing some custom mods to the interior which will add some additional weight; so I would eventually be concerned about putting too much of a strain on the 1-ton axle. I can't seem to find anything that can definitively tell me how much the coach weighs, or, alternatively, how much the chassis weighs so that I can just get the vehicle weighed and then do the math. If anyone has access to this information, I'd appreciate pointing me in the right direction. 

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I think you would be better off with a 400lb trailer and a 400 lb motorcycle, than a 400lb motorcycle on the rear bumper

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58 minutes ago, WME said:

I think you would be better off with a 400lb trailer and a 400 lb motorcycle, than a 400lb motorcycle on the rear bumper

Possibly, but I'm not really comfortable with the idea of towing something behind the rig. And I'm leaning more toward a scooter or moped than a motorcycle, so the weight shouldn't be more than 200-300 lbs + 100 or so for the platform. 

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I have the specs from Winnebago for my 94 Warrior.  it is very similar to a 90 Dolphin that I used to own.

Gross vehicle weight rating 6000 lbs.

Gross combined weight rating (carried load plus pulled load) 6000 lbs.

Gross axle weight rating front 2300 lbs.  rear 4400 lbs.

Unloaded vehicle weight with full gas tank but empty water and waste and propane tanks 5352 lbs.

Net carrying capacity 648 lbs.

Weight of people, water, food, bedding, clothes, cooking utensils, TVs and antennas, and propane (but not the empty tank) all count against the 648 lbs. net.  I believe my Toy has been officially overloaded every time I drove it, and so are almost all the others on the road.

The Toyota owners manual says GVWR is 4600 lbs,  Front axle 2150 lbs.  Rear 2650 lbs.  The higher weight ratings from Winnebago can be accounted for by changes made by Winnebago, mostly the added air bags on the rear leaf springs.

Hope this helps.

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9 hours ago, Derek up North said:

You have this in writing from Winnebago? I've never seen a GCWR for a DRW. Toyota rated the 1-Ton SRW @ 8500lb GCWR.

Here's pics of the axle, the Winnebago sheet (VIN matches) and the Toyota owner's manual.  In case it is useful I also have original spec sheets for TTT airbags that Winnebago put on this rig. 

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My 93 Sea Breeze says no towing.  This is due to the frame extension added by National to convert the truck to a motorhome. I wanted to add a rack for generator and such. I am not a structural engineer thought I do have a bit of fabricating experience from my younger days and am cursed with common sense.

The frame extension on my Toy seems to be more substantial than what I see people talking about.  I looked at what other people had done and decided that I could safely add 200 lbs to the rear, including what I would add to support the box.

I was able to build the supports and add what I wanted and stay under 200 lbs.  I took the Toy on a 9000 mile trip and had no issues with it. I also built this to be easily removable, just in case.

I would not be comfortable with adding anything over 200 lbs, but that is just my opinion and worth what you are paying for it.

There is a thread here where MtDave did a frame extension which appears substantial you might want to look at.  

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Thanks. I've never seen that spec sheet from Winnebago. My thoughts (only) are that Winnebago listing the GCWR at 6000lb is their way of saying "we don't trust our frame extensions to tow anything". I unfortunately don't see any mention of GCWR (or towing capacity) in the Owners Manual (which isn't specific to the 1-Ton or C&C).

What year is your Owners Manual? Mine's a '92 and it actually mentions the C&C with a GVWR of 6000lb. It looks like yours doesn't mention the C&C.

P.S. Sorry about the fuzzy photo. :)

 

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56 minutes ago, Derek up North said:

Thanks. I've never seen that spec sheet from Winnebago. My thoughts (only) are that Winnebago listing the GCWR at 6000lb is their way of saying "we don't trust our frame extensions to tow anything". I unfortunately don't see any mention of GCWR (or towing capacity) in the Owners Manual (which isn't specific to the 1-Ton or C&C).

What year is your Owners Manual? Mine's a '92 and it actually mentions the C&C with a GVWR of 6000lb. It looks like yours doesn't mention the C&C.

Owner's manual is 1994.  I found more specs in a different section on trailer towing.  3VZ-E (V-6) and either trans GCWR with Toyota's towing package is 6900 lbs.  Without the towing package GCWR stays at 6900 for manual tranny but drops to 5400 for the automatic. Sounds like the Toyota towing package has to do with cooling the auto tranny. There is also a note saying that if the trailer weight is 1000 lbs or more then trailer brakes are required.

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Edited by BobBeery
correction on tranny
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Thanks. At last something official. Something a bit 'weird' is that you've got a '94 Manual but Toyota supposedly stopped making the C&C in '93. There's no mention of the C&C as there is in my '93 Manual?

I see at the top of that page a Towing Capacity without a Towing Package of 3500lb. Impressive. Does the previous page have a Towing Capacity with a Towing Package?

Logically (to me), the C&C would all have been shipped with the towing package as standard, otherwise, what's the point? :)

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I do not recall any mention of cab & chassis in the 94 manual, nor could I find any when looking just now.  Only thing that was there was some info about slide-in campers which does not apply.  I too was surprised to see 1994 on the manual.  I am third or fourth owner so it may be possible the manual was picked up some time later.  Notice the date on the second photo below.

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my 92 winnie warrior has a 2 inch receiver hitch. not sure if this was original or a po added. i am guessing if it was original,  it would be the "towing package" as the previous posts mentioned? any thoughts or comments ? i did purchase an aluminum "cargo carrier" from harbour frieght to haul a 1978 honda "hobbit" moped. the moped weighs 109 pounds wet. with the added weight of both carrier and moped, i am guessing only 150 lbs. should not be an issue. joe from dover

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You guy's made me look, my 94 Sea Breeze I thought was built on a 93 C&C, but the Toyota owners manual say's 1994? I tried one of the online vin decoders and it says it is a 93.  

I would bet money this is the original manual that came with the truck!

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10 hours ago, Derek up North said:

Very strange that they ended up with '94 manuals. Bob's sticker indicates the C&C was built January '93.

Hmmm, I would guess it was corporate.  It would be confusing for the customer to find a 93 manual in their shiny, brand new, big $$$$ 94 motorhome?  I can envision some battles on the showroom floor.

Edited by jjrbus
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Winnebago Corporate? Not too sure they'd think to go to that trouble. AFAIK, they never bothered to even produce a 1994 Brochure. Is there any difference (colors, trim, options) between a 1993 and 1994, or was it just a question of selling 'leftovers' as 'new for '94'?

I can't answer this question since I don't have a '94 Owners Manual in front of me, but it sounds like it would be missing the C&C DRW specific info I find in my '92 Manual.

Lug nut tightening torque:- 170ft-lb.

Tire size:- 185R14-LT6PR

GAWR:- Front - 2300lb; Rear - 4400lb

GVWR:- 6000lb

 

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OK, seems I've never sat down and read my '92 Owners Manual closely enough. I guess I always assumed specs like GCWR and towing capacities would be in the back pages with the other specs. Go figure!

On pages 111 & 112 (fuzzy photos attached) I found the following:-

Total trailer weight: 1-Ton truck: 5000lb

GCWR: 2WD without* towing package: 1-Ton truck: 8600lb

Tongue load: 2WD without* towing package: 1-Ton truck: 500lb

* NOT a typo! Of mine, anyway!

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CitizenX, sorry we seem to have hijacked your post.  Is there anything you are needing that we might help with?  Derek, pardon my ignorance, but what does DRW stand for?  Is it draw weight?

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Sorry for the 'in talk'. 1-Ton DRW = Dual Rear Wheel; 1-Ton SRW = Single Rear Wheel

Implied in the 'DRW' description is that we're referring to a FF, 6-lug, 1-Ton axle and NOT a 5-lug with foolies. :)

Toyota also produced the '1-Ton Pickup' that had a 5-lug rear axle, and that's what I mean when I refer to a '1-Ton SRW'

EDIT:  The VIN for a 1-Ton Single Rear Wheel (SRW) on Ebay           JT4RN55E4F0117843

 

1 Ton SRW.jpg

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Thank you Derek.

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Back to citizenx's original question. I wanted to do the same thing he has in his picture

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I went to my local welder friend to install a 2" receiver to mount the bike carrier. We crawled under there and found that the Toyota Truck frame ended just to the rear of the rear axle. From there back to the rear bumper could best be described as a "Fake a loo" "Frame". That frame was made by the motorhome manufacturer and is not a Toyota truck frame and is really barely able to hold the weight of the body / cabin. After realizing what it would entail to build a real frame back from the axle we decided to go the trailer route. Think about this, you have a 300 # bike balanced a couple of feet behind your rear bumper (big leverage on that receiver weld) you hit a speed bump, the bike goes up and down and also twists in the receiver, you no longer have a static 300 pound load, you have bad leverage working that receiver weld, and also on that fake a loo frame. So I did not want a trailer but after looking under there I got one. I put the trailer tongue on a bathroom scale and the bike on the trailer, then moved the bike fore and aft until I got a 40 pound tongue weight, and then installed a front wheel "shoe" so my bike always loads to the same location. My friend welded a 2" receiver to the bumper and frame and I installed a (permanently turned on when ignition key is on) back up camera in the upper rear window with the viewer mounting over the rear view mirror in the cab. That was in 2010 and I have hauled my bike ever since with no problem, I keep checking the welds every trip. Also there are "trailers" with Wheels on turning spindles that you can mount to your rear bumper that allow you to back up without having back up skills, some are shorter that a regular trailer. The idea is to keep the weight load off the motorhome frame and put that load on the trailer axle. Think about putting a 300 pound man on a bar 2 feet back from your bumper, but welded to the bumper, and having him jump up and down on that every mile you drive. Then go under the rear frame and see if you think if it can take it. Your leverage point starts just behind the rear axle, clear back to the bumper, then out more to the bike carrier, it is a long lever built of very light construction, it is NOT a Toyota truck frame back there so we can't compare this to mounting the bike carrier on a real Toyota truck frame.

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So this is how I ended up getting my bike around, Note also that with a 40# tongue weight it is very easy to move the trailer around with the bike still on it, when you get to  a camp spot. Those are 2 spotlights on a post below the rear window for backing up at night. The rear view camera is at the top of the rear window on the inside of the glass. The bike front tire shoe also holds a spare tire. The leverage weight on the MH frame receiver is 40# not 300#

Toyota MH0001.JPG

Edited by Lee & Joan
add stuff
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Take a good look at your chassis.  My warrior chassis basically ends behind the aft leaf spring mount - after that is just a relatively flimsy attachment.  Add in the gross weight issue and essentially, the bottom line is you need a different vehicle.

Edited by DanAatTheCape
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  • 3 weeks later...
On 3/27/2017 at 6:34 AM, jjrbus said:

There is a thread here where MtDave did a frame extension which appears substantial you might want to look at.  

Would you happen to have a link to that thread? I'd be interested in checking out those mods. 

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20 minutes ago, citizenx said:

Would you happen to have a link to that thread? I'd be interested in checking out those mods. 

Sorry, no I don't, it is on this site somewhere.

 

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18 hours ago, Derek up North said:

This one perhaps?

 

Yes that is the one I was thinking of.  Have not heard from Dave in some time, he was moving to ??Alabama?? and must be busy.

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  • 2 years later...

Similarly, I have a 1978 sand pak manual transmission and a aluminum harbor freight cargo carrier.  Putting a 132 pound generator and 4 gallon gas can.  Is that an okay weight for my rig?  Any advice would be greatly appreciated.  If it's too much I can always sell my generator for a smaller honda 2200 or something similar.

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