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Dion

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Hello, I am new to this board, and would be very grateful if anyone could tell me how to find out if my 1980 17' Sunrader was part of the rear axle recall. NTSB said they couldn't help me because my VIN is only 10 digits, and they need 17. Does anyone know how to get this info on a specific unit?

Thanks

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Do you have duel rims on each side in the rear? If so looks like the "bad axle" to me. More pictures would help. The experts on this forum will verily for you if you have the "foolies". Good Luck!

Edited by markwilliam1
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Yes they do and they also have 6 lugs holding them on. It's all about the load handling both in the design of the rear and the extra ability of 4 wheels to handle the weight. The foolies actually made the problem worse by putting extra burden on the axles due to the leverage.

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Well, almost by accident, I found a guy about 250 miles from me who has a complete 6 lug full floater, with the springs and rims still attached, that came out of an early eighties fleet truck of some sort. He says it's a 4:10. I'm not completely sure what that means, but he says it should work fine. He is also willing to do the swap. If everything lines up well, he said the whole thing should be about 1k. If you guys don't mind, would you tell me what my concerns should be as far as determining if it's going to work? I really appreciate the help you've given me so far. Derek, that recall info you sent was unbelievably helpful. The contacts I was able to make from that was more than I had imagined possible. Thank you again!

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4.10:1 is pretty much the standard ratio, so you're good to go. Owners of larger and heavier Toyotas do find it beneficial to swap to 4.56:1 but you might not find the 'need'.

Concerns? Are the leaf springs the same distance apart. If they aren't, the spring mounting pads will have to be cut off and reattached. Also, possibly, the shock attaching points.

 

 

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It needs to have come from at least an 86 truck or it won't be a full floater. To fit your 80 you will have to have new spring perches and shock mounts welded. Your chassis is slightly narrower than the full floaters chassis. hope it all works out. Sounds like a lucky break

Linda S

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you may not need the full floater - if you are only 17' you may not be "heavy" enough....

do you know how much your rig weighs?  The later models are supposed to max out at 6,000 lbs and many are running around heavier then that.

I think some of the older shorter sunraders are a lot lighter.

 

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Dan, I haven't scaled it yet, hopefully I'll get to it tomorrow. About the only thing it seems I didn't plan on in my retirement, was that I wasn't going to have time to do it. Strange how that works. Anyway, would there be a problem if the full float was the only one available? It would be nice to keep what I have, but more and more that seems to not be a viable option. 

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The problem with what everyone calls the bad axle is actually the application of dual wheels. That extra wheel creates allot of leverage flexing the axle at the bearing. Replace the dual setup with a single wheel and the leverage problem goes away. Weight is still a factor though. You have to have your rig weighed, you need to know how much weight each wheel is supporting. Our 86 18ft sunrader was not light. If I remember just under 7000 pounds loaded. The original axle that came from the factory on what ever year pickup is what the bad axle is. It is only bad though because of the duals and weight. If the rear is heavier than what the stock axle was designed to carry then you must go with a full floating rear axle.

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2 hours ago, Derek up North said:

This is an 18' Sunrader. The owner thought she could 'get away with it'.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: The recall makes no mention of length or weight being the problem. It was (and is) the foolies. :)

 

15726712_911097567863_7558610131401369900_n.jpg

15823287_911097582833_2395801456165428297_n.jpg

And if you look at the axle shaft in the center of picture #2, you will notice a "coffee" colored stain on the upper top end. This is rust caused by fatigue in the metal letting moisture enter.

So even if your axle shafts "look" fine, there could be unseen damage.

Best to change the whole unit.

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The axles break at the radius of the hub then you loose the wheel hub and brake drum not a good thing. If your MH is light enough ditch the foolies and put a 8 ply rated tire on a single wheel. There is an outfit out there that makes axles with a deeper radius I don't know who they are but "heavy duty axle" may get results.

Edited by Maineah
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So far it's looking good for the swap. Like Linda said, there is apparently the issue with the spring perches and shock mounts, but the guy I'm working this with says it's nothing he can't deal with. Thanks Linda!

So, as a result of doing this swap, do I have to anything with the front wheels?

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Good move Dion and Welcome! Many of us have the miss-matched wheels on our rigs! On Grannie I have the 5 lug rims on the front and 6 lug rims on the back. I have to carry 2 different spare tires and rims which sucks but I travel back roads and no cell coverage to call for help. I've read on this forum that if you have a flat on the rear you can remove the flat and limp along on 1 wheel until you find a repair shop. Too risky for me! So I mount my front 5 lug spare under the truck and I had a guy make a rear tire carrier welded to the back to carry a 6 lug spare. A lot of extra weight though. Also, you can buy 5 to 6 lug adapters for the front or change the front over to a full 1 ton and use the same spare for all 6 wheels. I'm not knowledgeable about these types of conversions but there are Many experts on this site that can help you! Good Luck and Enjoy!

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It's doable but that dually rear tire and rim is Heavy. If your thinking about mounting it on your rear bumper somehow the bumper must be completed reinforced by welding, etc. and the spare tire carrier must also be welded on. Those little spare bumper attachments that bolt on would Not work. The thought of that big spare falling off and flying down the road to kill someone.....! Just my 2 cents. 

 

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I have 5 lugs in the front and I wouldn't think of carrying a spare for the rear. I have driven 250 miles with only one tire on one side in the back with no problems. Just wasn't willing to pay the big bucks for a tire in a rinky dink town so I drove home and ordered some. Had three blowouts total all in the back, bad valve stems were the problem twice. I just slow down a little bit, no big deal.

Linda S

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Your the one who found that spare dually rim for me awhile back Linda (thanks!) so when I lug it around I think of you!

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Well, things have changed a bit. Because of the distance between myself and where the 1 ton axle is, and the issues that might pop up during the swap, It was recommended to me by the gentleman who i"m getting it from, that I get the swap done closer to home. So, I'm going to go get it Saturday. Now I need to find out all I can about what its going to take to get this done. Thanks Linda for the info on the spring perches, and the shock mounts, but in truth, I don't have much of a detailed clue about what it takes to fix that situation. Is it at all possible to use the springs that are currently on my 1/2 ton rig? I'm assuming not, but it seems like that would be easier. Is how the sway bar mounts going to be a problem? I would certainly like to get whatever fabricated parts i need made taken care of before I take it somewhere for the swap. Does the attached photo look like the normal spring setup for a 1980 Sunder 1/2 ton? Again, I really appreciate the help from you guys, I'd be pretty lost without it.

IMG_0831.JPG

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Find another setup to follow, this one doesn't look right

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3 hours ago, WME said:

Find another setup to follow, this one doesn't look right

I agree. That extra u-bolt almost makes me think there's a problem with the spring perch.

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Thanks, I had read that there were a few different fix attempts folks had done in an effort to take weight off those fake duallys, and I was curious if in trying to strengthen the springs this possibly might be one of them. it's the same setup on both springs. 

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That is a sway bar I had the same thing on my 1979 sunrader. i changed my axle to a 6 lug axle it is a lot of work! You have to get different u bolts I think 3 inch and the plate where the u bolts go though. move the spring perch in about 1 inch you can use the same springs. there is some great pics in the forums that really helped me a lot some of the people here could find them. one of the old members JD or zero showed everything hope this helps a little. ?

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On ‎3‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 7:28 AM, Dion said:

Does a 1 ton replacement have to be a dually setup?

Depending on the weight of your vehicle you could go to a GM ff axle with single rear wheels.

I have a build thread in the archives. Look for "foolie to 1 ton gm ff".

Either way, your looking at 2-4 k do do the swap.

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Just looks like someone added an extra clamp and compressed the bottom spring plate, Should float free like this

90-113-2.jpg?1487167478

 

 

 

All this new axle stuff can be overwhelming. Yes new axle is best case scenario but going to single wheels is an option that will probably work in the meantime. Have new bearings installed in the rear and have them carefully look for wear or damage. Buy bigger wheels for the back.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Wheels/43953/i.html?_fsrp=1&Rim%20Diameter=15&Bolt%20Pattern=5x114%2E3&Offset=0&_dcat=43953&Rim%20Width=6&_sop=15

0 offset puts the weight of your rig centered on the bearings instead offset like they are now. Less stress

Buy tires that will hold the weight of your rig

https://www.tires-easy.com/brands/thunderer-tires/ranger-r402?code=TH0413

Can I guarantee that this will last forever? Of course not. Is it a better set up than you have now, absolutely and it will only set you back a few hundred bucks

Linda S

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Thank you Linda, based on the research I have done, I've been thinking that getting away from the fake dually situation would go a long way toward an, if not perfect, then at least a viable resolution. I haven't found any evidence that the Toyota axles themselves had a lot of problems, plus mine is a 17' that will be carrying just my wife and myself, and of course some food and clothing. So, I will get the bearings replaced and the axle inspected as you suggested, if that's all good, I'll get it scaled and take that info to a tire dealer along with your recommendations, and let them take it from there.

thanks again Linda

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I did find one tire that would let you use regular Toyota wheels and still have the required load capability. Probably be the best way to go. I'm afraid we have seen in the past lots of tire places were clueless about higher load range tires. No aspect ratio so they don't think they exist

https://www.tires-easy.com/brands/thunderer-tires/ranger-r101?code=TH0309

Linda S

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I know.  0 offset might not fit on the inside but it might. Can't be sure without measuring and I have nothing to measure. Toyota rims will fit for sure and way closer to bearings than way offset fake dually.

Linda S

 

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