1988dolphin Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 I have a 1988 Dolphin with 60.000 miles, a 22RE engine, Automatic Transmission, and 4:10 rear gears. I seldom use overdrive. I would like to lower gearing to assist in hill climbing and maybe make overdrive more practical. What has been your experience? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Your choices are 4.56 or 4.88. The v-6's like the 4.56. The 22re on the flats the 4.56 is ok, serious hills? then the 4.88 is your answer. With the 4.88/OD your cruising rpm will be less than your current 3rd direct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1988dolphin Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 Based on your response and my reading the 4.88 gearing is the way to go. When I climb a hill I will select a gear on the automatic that keeps the tachometer at 2800 - 3000 RPM and take my time. The 22RE engine is a work horse. One more question. There is a system that locks out 4th gear when the vehicle is above 2500 feet in altitude or so. Would you recommend disabling it if I use 4.88 gearing, and if so where would I research how to correctly do it. This would be my gearing if I use 4.88 gears. 1st gear / 2.452 @ 3129 rpm = 20 MPH 2nd gear / 1.452 @ 3057 rpm = 33 MPH 3rd gear / 1.00 @ 3062 rpm = 48 MPH Overdrive / .688 @ 2634 rpm = 60 MPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Even with 4.88 gears your not going to be climbing in OD. You might climb in 3rd on some hills that used to be 2nd gear hills. The altitude switch should be set for 4500 ft. From what I understand it's a simple unplug of the sensor. The sensor is behind the driver side kick panel. I never did it because I live at over 6000 ft so am seriously lacking enough power to run OD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markwilliam1 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Any idea on the cost of installing a 4.88 gear? Also does it improve gas mileage and performance with the 22RE?? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 4.88 gear with a 22RE performance increase, yes. Mpg increase, no. But most report no decrease in mpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 From my (poor) memory, 4.56:1 was installed in forerunners with 33"(?) tires, so will be found in the junkyard (perhaps with difficulty). I don't remember if 4.88:1 was a factory option so might only be available as a ring & pinion, which will be way more expensive (and difficult) to install correctly. Will the extra ~7% change in gearing (4.56:1 vs 4.88:1) really be worth the extra? Up to you to decide. All I will say is that I didn't notice a difference (seat of the pants) between 4.10:1 vs 4.30:1 (~5%). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 I hate it when I post without fact checking 1st! Sorry folks!! http://www.brian894x4.com/Gearratiosanddiffs.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markwilliam1 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Thanks always WME & Derek! Link was way over my head. My Toy is a 85 so I would assume Big bucks to change and probably would never recoup the cost! Bummer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Well, without going back to look again, Car-Part.com had carriers with 4.88:1 gears starting at $200. You'd have to call around to see what people would charge to install. I'd start by phoning places that cater to the 4x4 crowd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markwilliam1 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Would it work on a 85? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 I think all 8" carriers are interchangeable. There might be some changes required for connecting the drive shaft. Best confirm with an expert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markwilliam1 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Will do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee & Joan Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 From reading this it sounds like there is no difference between a half ton pickup truck and a one ton dual tire motor home differential? Are you saying that you could bolt in a 4:88 third member from a pickup truck into the one ton housing and everything would match? the bolt pattern, axle size and spline ends, driveshaft length? Who has done the 4:88 Swap & how did you go about it?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 http://www.lcengineering.com/LCTechPages/DIFFERENTIALTOYOTATECH.html EVERYTHING you could POSSIBLY want to know about Toyota #rd members Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee & Joan Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 Thanks WME More info here~> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee & Joan Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 (edited) a bit more info here Edited April 6, 2017 by Lee & Joan add link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee & Joan Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 even more here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee & Joan Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 on swapping gears yourself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee & Joan Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 more here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee & Joan Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee & Joan Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 On 2/16/2017 at 1:59 PM, 1988dolphin said: One more question. There is a system that locks out 4th gear when the vehicle is above 2500 feet in altitude or so. Would you recommend disabling it if I use 4.88 gearing, and if so where would I research how to correctly do it. Auto Trans Altitude OD Switch http://toyotamotorhome.org/forums/index.php?/topic/4012-auto-trans-altitude-od-switch/ The relay is mounted on what would be the clutch pivot, under dash, it is marked as such, simply unplug it, run a jumper wire between the top 2 female connections with a switch in line, and you now can select to use overdrive, anytime even over the 4k limit that is factory. Did this to an 86 dolphin, though the trans and set up should be the same no matter what the actual camper manufacture is. Toyota Part # 89531-28010 is the relay, it is blue and has 3 wires running to it (all are female) and two are in line with one another - I believe these are the two wires that 'cabinguy' is referring to. http://toyotamotorhome.org/forums/index.php?/topic/1090-transmission-relay-under-dash-toggle-switch-wired-to-it/ I've got an 87 Dolphin 900 and it's got a toggle switch that's wired to a blue plastic relay "Transmission relay - Toyota" The relay is about 2 inches by 3 inches and seems original. The toggle switch has a red lighted handle that goes hot with the ignition switched on (and with the toggle switched on). Anyone know what this is/does? Wild guesses appreciated too. Could the transmission cooler have an on/off switch?? Thanks much, Mark figured it out....What it (red lighted toggle) does is ground out (through the lighted toggle) the blue (hot) lead coming into the transmission relay. This would have the effect (I presume) of defeating that relay which I suspect is linked to the high altitude sensor. Also, on closer inspection, the toggle is definitely aftermarket and the transmission relay is stock. So someone wanted to be able to defeat the high alt sensor with the flip of a switch. I'll confirm this on my first trip over Donner pass in a couple months. Does this make sense to you tech folks? - Or am I off base here? thanks, Mark http://toyotamotorhome.org/forums/index.php?/topic/3407-trans-overdirve-overide/ The relay is located on the housing right next to the brake pedal, it is on the part of the bracket that would mount the clutch pedal if it were a standard transmission. Hard to miss it, mine is blue in color and it even says transmission relay on it{after you dismount it from mentioned bracket you'll see it printed on the side} Is three wires going to it. Found the answer, unplug the transmission relay and run a jump wire with a switch in it, between the 2 terminals where the realy was. It's the two that are opposite each other, overdrive working fine now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee & Joan Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 After reading through all the above stuff I am still confused as to which donor vehicles would have a compatible differential for a 22re automatic seeking a 4:88/1 ratio. I see statements like this where it appears that you must find a donor with a 22r and not a V6. "You can stick a complete differential section from most any four-cylinder Toyota truck or 4-Runner from 1977 to 1994 with a few exceptions.. Also some Tacomas that are even newer. Not many made though with 4.56 gears. A few 4-Runners that came new with 32" tires as I recall. A 90s 4-Runner with factory 32" tires, 8" "four cylinder rear" and the OEM 4.56 gears is what you'd want to find". another statement says " the 4 pinion 4.56's were used in the v6 automatic 4runners with 31" tire". "There is no difference other than gearing between the third member that came on the 1-ton axles and the 4 pinion third members that came on the v6 4x4's. Unfortunately, the Tacoma and other next generation third members are not interchangeable with our style." & "The FACTORY 4.88 V6 diff is unique! - Axle code G144, white pinion paint code, - generally came in 92-95 trucks/4runners with V6, auto tranny, 31" tires, and tow package. - Housing offsets pinion towards ring gear, allowing ring gear to be thinner - OEM Toyota gears are the ONLY gears that fit this diff due to the thinner ring gear. All other gear sets have thicker ring gears and do not fit. - The carrier (case) is the same as the V6 diffs & the 4runners that have the 4.88s are only the automatics with the 31 inch tire option However I read elsewhere that you can't put the 4 pinion in on a 22r, you need a 2 pinion ? Can anyone clarify just what vehicles might have a 4:88/1 ratio that would fit a 22r differential? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 All the V6's differentials are 4 pinion and they were used to upgrade to a full floater so they must fit. Same differential came in all turbo's standard and they were 22re engines. Only 4x4's had 4.88 differentials though so you have to source one from there and the 4.88 wasn't available until 1992. Same diff on some 4runners too. This gearing is probably too low for a 22re automatic though. Better off with more widely available 4.56 Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee & Joan Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 Found this in a post by Linda a few years ago http://toyotamotorhome.org/forums/index.php?/topic/8542-g294-how-many-splines/ http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/1478223-post73.html Here goes: There's no such thing as "4cyl" and "V6" R&P. (ring & pinion) There are actually two types of R&P, let's call them "LPH" (Long Pinion Head) and "SPH" (Short Pinion Head). '79-'85 rigs have SPH gears and a "thick" inner pinion bearing designed for the 4cyl housing. All aftermarket "4cyl" R&P and inner pinion bearings are identical to these factory parts, that way the same part numbers will fit all '79-'95 four-cylinder rigs. '86-'95 four-cylinder and V6 rigs ALL come with LPH gears. However, to use LPH gears in a four-cylinder housing you MUST use the "thin" '86-'95 factory Toyota four-cylinder inner pinion bearing. If you use a "thick" aftermarket bearing (or a factory '79-'85 bearing) the pinion will be too deep into the mesh and won't work. SPH gears will fit V6 housings if you add a lot of inner pinion bearing shims. Precision Gear avoids having to use so many shims by offering an aftermarket LPH gearset for V6 housings. '88-'95 V6 housings must obviously use V6 inner pinion bearings, so there's no confusion here. Carrier bearings aren't an issue here either, just R&P. You need 4cyl carrier bearings for 4cyl housings and V6 carrier bearings for V6 housings regardless of year. So what good does this do anyone? Say you have some used LPH gears collecting dust because you didn't think you could use them in your 4cyl housing. They're even the ratio you want, like the V6-only factory 4.56 or a set of Precision LPH gears (any ratio) your buddy traded you for a six-pack. Take your bad self over to Toyota and order a '86-'95 4cyl inner pinion bearing, and you're in business! This seems to be implying that you must put a 22r carrier into a 22r housing and a V6 carrier into a V6 housing unless you change the pinion bearing? I found only 4 Runner in 488 & 457 carriers from only V6 donors on carparts.com, none from 22rs, none from pickup trucks. Not sure where to go from here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 I'm not a mechanic, I just find stuff that fits the discussion and only know a little about it. BUT here's a quote from the toyotacamper site on Yahoo. This is only one of them. There are numerous posts related to putting different gears in V6 Toys and 4 cylinders. This 86 New Horizon would have the same axle as yours Lee. No other alterations mentioned so they must fit. Linda S The pinion bearings started to go on my 86 21' New Horizons 2.3 22RE toy house on a trip from Ventura, CA to Baltimore so... I took it to my friend's farm in NC and replaced the pumpkin with one from a 92 Forerunner axle code G144 4:88 gears ($300). What a drivability Improvement! I just got back to California via Minnesota. I was really surprised how few of those miles I had to run out of OD even though we plowed into significant headwinds most of the trip. I have a huge auxiliary transmission cooler on my rig but I monitored to make sure it wasn't overheating. At the end of the trip to transmission fluid is still clear and red. I had to unplug the altitude sensor when I got into the Rockies. Now I'm trying to decide whether to just install an electronic speedometer, or try to get a gear reduction box from a speedo shop. Anyone who has done the gear swap have any suggestions? Thanks Cam 1986 21' New Horizon 22REC A43D automatic transmission Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee & Joan Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 Thanks Linda, I am just trying to be sure before I commit to getting one from a few hundred miles away and then finding something does not jive. So far I have located one in Washington state but they want $450. I see they run from about $250 to $450 Axle code = G144> It seems almost too easy to be able to swap from so many years and so many vehicles but older Datsun stuff swapped from 240Z sports cars to pickup trucks all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 I think the bearings won't swap into a 4 banger housing but you are trying to swap the whole thing which has a V6 housing. How much do you think these things weigh. Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee & Joan Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 Ah I see where some of my confusion is coming from. The pictures above are of "carriers" AKA pumpkins, third members. The housing is the axle that the carrier fits into the center of and the wheels are on the ends of. So I guess the carriers can fit into either housing 22r or V6 but the gear sets within the carriers are not swap able 22r to V6? I think they must weigh about 80-100 pounds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee & Joan Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I got a 4:88 carrier from an 95 4Runner with 31' tires on its way here from Creswell Oregon. The wrecking yard just got it in, 9 days before I called. 146K miles $300 + 60 shipping. Should get it in by late next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee & Joan Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 The 4:88 Pumpkin was installed today. The hardest part was getting the tapered cones out of the 6 axle bolts on each side. First tried the method of "double nutting the studs" and backing the studs out a turn. That snapped the stud off. So resorted to the BFH method, then to the VBFH, and that worked. Once those axles were free everything went pretty quickly. It took about 4.5 hours and cost $210 labor plus 33$ for new synthetic gear lube. One of the unseen bonuses of getting the 1995 4 Runner pumpkin was that it is a "Locker" in that if one wheel set gets on ice or mud it doesn't leave you spinning the un tractioned wheel, it puts drive to the good wheel also. The V6 4 runner pumpkin is also built more "stout" than the stocker. As far as a test drive it is a very nasty day today (cold hard rain) so I just drove it home from the shop. One good thing is the grade I could not pull in 1st before (lugging at 15 MPH 1800 RPM) can now easily be excellerated up in first at what the speedo now says is 30 MPH at 2900 RPM. Of course the speedo is now way off so I have no idea how fast I am going.I am also questioning the tachometer. So I guess that is the "next Project". Total cost of switch over was right at $603 for parts shipping labor and fluids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Good deal, sounds like it did everything it was supposed to do. Until you get a speedo adapter just upload a speedo app into your phone. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.valueapps.utilities.speedometer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee & Joan Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 Thanks WME, but I don't have a smart phone just an old dumb one, but still it outsmarts me...drat! Check my figures but I think 410 divided by 488 is 0.8401639 so if I multiply the speedo indicated speed by that # I should get the actual MPH # as follows 12 MPH indicated = 10 MPH Actual thus 18=15, 24=20, 30=25,35=30,42=35,48=40,53=45,60=50, 65=55, 71=60,77=65. So I was tooling along home at 65 in a 55 zone with a car tailgating me so I was doing 55. It was REAL EASY to get up to "65" or "70" in a heavily patrolled 55 zone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 There is a place in Sacramento that makes speedometer adjusters so it's accurate again. I will have to find the name and get back to you. You don't need to go there. They make it from information you give them over the phone and installation isn't supposed to be hard. About a 100 bucks I think. Linda S Oops found it https://www.google.com/#q=commercial+speedometer+west+sacramento&spf=73 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee & Joan Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 Thanks Linda, I called them and they will call me back tomorrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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